CliffyB: Epic Must "Drag" the Industry Into the Next Generation

[ScruffyMcBalls]

E) Except that the Unreal engine became outdated years ago. Secondly, graphics don't need to increase anymore, since any real visual difference would be negated by a price jump to $70 or $80, which might actually KILL the non-AAA or indy industry.

This isn't about graphics or the type of games CliffyB makes. It's about the hardware developers have access too. With better tools they can make better games. Not just better looking games, but better PLAYING games. Better enemy AI, more open environments, more options for how you play. More complex systems and LONGER games in general.

You honestly think that's what the industry is going to do with the next step of technology? Cause I don't, and I doubt you'll find a compelling way to persuade me otherwise. The next generation of games will be sold on "ooooh, look how shiny it is "rather than "ooooh, check out the new control scheme and the pathfinding". That's the way it has always worked with the so-called AAA games. Will this new hardware let genuinely capable developers create better games? Yeah, probably. Right up until the AAA companies overshoot on production budgets -vastly- the casual fanbase loses faith in the industry and all the money dries up (though I will admit, that's the very worst case scenario).

 

[ScruffyMcBalls]

E) Except that the Unreal engine became outdated years ago. Secondly, graphics don't need to increase anymore, since any real visual difference would be negated by a price jump to $70 or $80, which might actually KILL the non-AAA or indy industry.

This isn't about graphics or the type of games CliffyB makes. It's about the hardware developers have access too. With better tools they can make better games. Not just better looking games, but better PLAYING games. Better enemy AI, more open environments, more options for how you play. More complex systems and LONGER games in general.

You honestly think that's what the industry is going to do with the next step of technology? Cause I don't, and I doubt you'll find a compelling way to persuade me otherwise. The next generation of games will be sold on "ooooh, look how shiny it is "rather than "ooooh, check out the new control scheme and the pathfinding". That's the way it has always worked with the so-called AAA games. Will this new hardware let genuinely capable developers create better games? Yeah, probably. Right up until the AAA companies overshoot on production budgets -vastly- the casual fanbase loses faith in the industry and all the money dries up (though I will admit, that's the very worst case scenario).

Of course not. Games have never been marketed based on anything like control, and enemy AI. I was simply stating that giving developers more advanced tools will lead to better games. AAA games are not the only ones that will benefit from a new unreal engine.

Yeah, I didn't misread you if that's what you're thinking. Game haven't ever been marketed on mechanics, but they should and that was my point. And you're right, AAA companies aren't the only ones who will benefit, but they're the ones who'll exploit this new technology most. Will we get a couple games we simply couldn't have made in this generation? Yes. But ultimately game budgets are gonna get bigger (much bigger) profits will largely stay the same and those smaller companies you mention are gonna have a tough time competing. Mean while AAA games are gonna slip drastically in the mechanics department as they strive ever harder to make shit pretty, that's my point.

 

[Aprilgold]

It's not MUST it's want to. And why do we need another generation so soon anyway?

Because if you don't change the hardware for something long enough, technology and ambitions go higher but are capped because of the hardware their using.

But HAVE they capped it? It doesn't seem like we're close enough to justify another jump.

Yes, they have. Bro, the common gaming generations up to this point have been about five years max, were going on nine years.

Nine years is a long time, and without new hardware our old hardware is un-sufficient for our need.

 

[mindlesspuppet]

Good lord, it's like Epic are trying to be a parody of everything that's wrong with the gaming industry.

They had their time, now they need to either stop being insane or just go away.

Psssh, yeah, Epic should just go away, nevermind that their engine powers countless AAA titles like BioShock, Batman Arkham, Borderlands, Mass Effect, etc etc.

Sarcasm aside, this is Epic's time. Seems like you don't realize it, but they have an unseen dominance over the gaming industry that is comparable to none.

Yes, I'm looking forward to Epic's next game, Fatal Frames of War, a multi-player co-op game involving a squad of macho-looking Japanese schoolgirls employing cover-based camera tactics against alien ghosts in a series of photorealistic brown and grey buildings with the best looking lighting bloom in the industry.

Holy shit, this might be the best forum post I've ever read. Got a good laugh out of it. Also, Epic needs to make it so.

 

[RagTagBand]

Epic's games aside (something the idiots on this site are incapable of doing), their ability to craft an amazing engine is indisputable and there's a reason it's so ridiculously popular amongst developers.

And frankly, if they want to give us something spectacular in the form of an amazing engine that will give us incredibly beautiful graphics for the next 10 years, if only Console developers would take a risk instead of taking baby steps, then I'm going to agree with them. I hope Epic drags us into the next generation of amazing looking, immersive games.

 

[Exocet]

Coming from a studio that basically makes 2 games, Unreal(a tech demo for the newest Unreal engine) and Gears of War, both of which aren't exactly beacons of imagination and clever game mechanics, I don't think he should be allowed to even think he is an important figure in the industry.

He tells me I want better graphics... I can't believe just how out of touch he is with the gamer.
How about giving game designers intellectual freedom, instead of bending over to producers over and over again? Maybe that way, generations of consoles will run their course naturally, with processing power increasing to match the demands for increasingly smarter AI and physical interactions, instead of making a new console with the sole purpose of making games look pretty.

 

[Riff Moonraker]

I seem to recall a period in the comic book world back in the early 90's where comic books started selling like hotcakes. The biggest craze back then were whomever the hottest artist was at the moment, and whatever biggest gimmick they could come up with.. IE chromium covers, multiple different covers for the same issue, etc. etc. They forgot what made comic books great... THE STORY. The comic book industry imploded, and almost went under.

There is a lesson to be learned there, that some gaming devs should really pay alot of attention to...

All flash, and no substance will not support a gaming future. Not a worthwhile one, at least.

hasnt the race for flashyer graphics ALWAYS been a big thing though? or was the term "graphics whore" only inveted this gen?

Yeah, it definitely has been a big thing all along, and there is nothing wrong with that. The problem comes in when it becomes kind of "all encompassing" to the point where its all that matters, which is kind of how it comes across in Cliffy B's interview.

 

[Awexsome]

It would be awesome if the graphics for the next generation of consoles was phenomenally good... and costed less than half of what a PC would cost for that same level of graphics. Graphics still look very good on current generation games for the 360 and PS3 and those that really want the tip-top end of graphics as a high priority likely wouldn't even get a console anyway.

 

[TheLastSamurai14]

If only Cliffy could get of his ass and start making Unreal Tournament IV, then we will be bros forever.

Seconded! I don't care much for Gears, as I don't have a 360, but UT is an amazing series, and UT3 is one of the only console FPS games to actually use the classic FPS formula, as well as mouse and keyboard support and mod downloads. It's a fucking godsend for console and PC gamers alike.

Cliffy, give that shit a new coat of paint and new maps and I can assure you that classic FPS fans will buy it for $20 again.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

And... how do they plan on keeping game budgets from skyrocketing out of control?

I think we should solve that problem before we tackle making games look even more graphically advanced.

This, in a nutshell.

Are we also going to get some sort of engine that will allow games to have decent writing? I ask because to me storytelling, not graphical fidelity, has been the major failing of games over the last console generation. I would also like to Xth the motion that Cliff Blasdfsdfszxzdfski please be asked to STFU.

I XXXXXth the motion. Was that enough?

EDIT: Dammit, all the smart posts were taken!

 

[Vigormortis]

big 'ole snippy snip

That vid isn't show-casing Unreal Engine 4, by the way. That's an upgrade to Unreal Engine 3. Just pointing that out. But anyway...

I'd actually love to see an engine designed by the animators and particle effects designers of Valve, the light-sourcing and texture design teams from Epic and id, the sound engineers from DICE, and the shader and modelling teams from Crytek.

Now THAT would be an incredible engine.

The problem isnt with the engine.

They could do believable expressions and movements with what they got, the problem is with their motivation to do such thing.

Modern companies would rather skimp on animation and prefer to dump a few hundred thousand into tacked on multiplayer and crap like that.

I'm pretty sure it is. As far as I've seen, it just can not create non-awkward looking, non-clunky animation. I think it has a lot to do with their skeletal animation system. Can't say for sure but, given that we've seen over 150 games running on the engine...and not a one of them has had decent animation...I think it's safe to assume it's the engine at fault here. (even Mirror's Edge had bad animation, and DICE is usually very good at doing animation)

For comparisons sake, compare animations on the latest build of UE3 to, say, animations seen in games running the latest builds of the Cry-Engine, id Tech 5, Frostbyte 2, or Source. The UE3 animations look a LOT less natural and a lot more "artificial" than most of what you see on those other engines.

So...is this iteration of the engine going to do away with the signature texture pop-ins that the Unreal Engine is known for, or are those a "feature?"

They have slightly "fixed" that issue, but it still shows up. A lot, in fact. Especially on the PC builds. Not as much as before, but still...

Honestly it's just a bad engine. It does some things very well; some things exceptionally well; but utterly fails on other aspects.

I know a lot of people don't share this opinion, but I honestly think Epic Games has gone down hill since Cliffy B stepped into the lime-light. Granted, I never liked the guy. Even before he became the face of Epic. So maybe I'm biased. (he was responsible for making some of the worst maps in Unreal Tournament and Unreal Tournament 2004)

[edit]
Oh this new captcha...

"Describe this product in any word(s)"
- I use encouraging words like "good" and "delicious", it works fine.
- I use disparaging words like "awful" and "tasteless", it fails and asks me to do it again.

2012 - the last year we were allowed to have our own opinions on things. Welcome to the 21st century everyone!!!

 

[him over there]

Yes, because it is the (while inferior to pcs) amazing graphical fidelity that has held back console gaming, not the fact that it fails regarding mods, or dedicated servers, or anything else. Though it is about time for an upgrade I think.

 

[ThriKreen]

Except that's not true, now is it?
Making games easier to churn out just makes them churn out shitty games. If anything streamlining the process and making it easier to work with will just cause a flood of shitty games that come out as cash grabs.

Actually, it's quite the opposite - harder to develop for, means they are less likely to engage in risky gameplay mechanics and stick with (supposed) tried'n'true recycled stuff we currently see.

Making it easier to develop for, while sure you might see more shovelware, but you'd also see gems from people experimenting with new combinations. One can iterate over gameplay much faster to produce fun games, and development costs are lowered since you're not spending a majority of your developer time just trying to reprogram the engine to do what you want.

Case in point, look at Dungeon Defenders - and hey, that's in UE3.

Or look at how easy it was to mod Neverwinter Nights 1 (compared to NWN2).