CliffyB: Microsoft Tried to "Have it Both Ways"

[FightingFurball]

God this just reminded me of the Simpsons episode where Homer designs a car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpPuYGPcvD4

But instead of saying oh god no one will pay it, saying well if it costs so much the people should buy for the price then...

 

[SONICWOLF]

No Clifford, what's got to change is the absolutely ridiculous budgets of AAA games and the idea that every game must cost $60. When games are selling 3 million copies in a month but are still deemed failures, then there's something fundamentally wrong with the way games are being made. Games don't need huge budgets and jaw dropping graphics to succeed, this has been proven time and time again with games like Dark Souls and the seemingly never ending wealth of awesome indie content.

For once why don't AAA publishers take some fucking responsibility for their own self destructive actions instead of blaming everyone else and screwing the consumer over? The current AAA situation is simply unsustainable and if this carries on I don't forsee anything other than some rather large ships sinking.

THIS !! HOLY SHIT ALL OF THE THIS !!

 

[tardcore]

"When I see studio after studio closing and the aforementioned alluded titles failing I know something's got to change."

Goddamned right somethings gotta change. Game studios need to quit putting themselves in the shadow of giant publishing corps who care nothing about their autonomy, and instead just see them as another asset that can be liquidated if things turn sour. They also need to stop sinking all their money and hopes into a few games with a cast of thousands AND a thousand elephants, where by they need to push millions of game copies to break even, let alone turn a profit. The hard headed arrogance of fucksticks like this guy are what is responsible for game studios (and the game industry in general) going tits up. Not fucking used game buyers.

Now onto the whole "Microsoft wanted to have it both ways" malarkey. Bullshit! Microsoft created a weak, expensive console that offered next to nothing new for the gaming customer except for a ton of unfair and retarded social media and DRM features nobody fucking wanted. They didn't want anything both ways, they just wanted everything THEIR way, and fuck the consumer.

So in short the best way we can help change the industry is to stop listening to jackholes like the Microsoft spin doctors and idiots like Cliff Bleszinski. Fuck him, fuck Microsoft, fuck the kinect, and fuck their little dog too.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

Why do discs stop digital distribution? I am a PC gamer yet I buy all retail . I like boxes. And if you want a copy of your game:
1. Get it whilst its cheap on your online retailer
2. Buy a box
3. Print awesome custom box art.
4. IF (and it probably does not) it has a good manual, print it too. Most dont though, so 98% of the time this step can be forgotten
5. ????
6. Profit.

Fixed that for ya.

OT:
I'm honestly starting to think that it's time to find another hobby. There seems to be very little that's good in the gaming world now, and I'm tired of all this shit. Maybe I should take a break from gaming sites for a while, I'm sure that'll make me feel better.

 

[Fordo]

They also need to stop sinking all their money and hopes into a few games with a cast of thousands AND a thousand elephants, where by they need to push millions of game copies to break even, let alone turn a profit. The hard headed arrogance of fucksticks like this guy are what is responsible for game studios (and the game industry in general) going tits up. Not fucking used game buyers.

Boom. This is it. Smaller studios producing more original content instead of mega studios producing the same old crap is preferable.

 

[Something Amyss]

"When I see studio after studio closing and the aforementioned alluded titles failing I know something's got to change."

[/quote]

We're in agreement there. Maybe if the corporate bottom line wasn't so important to holier-than-thou executives who can't see more than six inches in front of their face, this wouldn't be an issue.

Nah. Gotta be used games.

 

[Something Amyss]

God this just reminded me of the Simpsons episode where Homer designs a car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpPuYGPcvD4

But instead of saying oh god no one will pay it, saying well if it costs so much the people should buy for the price then...

Clearly, the used market has stopped Homer's car from selling.

And what a fine set of clothes our Emperor just bought.

Hail CliffyB! Hail!

 

[kypsilon]

Let the big budget AAA games die, I say. If that's all that the Xbone was going to offer us anyway, I say, damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. Give us our indie developers with new ideas and a passion for the game rather than the over-hyped marketing pulp churned out by a cash-grabbing machine. Don't get me wrong, I love some of those AAA titles when they're done well, but they can't sustain the industry on CoD clones alone forever.

 

[RJ 17]

While offering few kind words for the "internet pitchfork mob who can only see 6 inches in front of their face," he isn't without criticism for Microsoft.

Hmmmm, and yet he goes on to say...

"Customers can smell from a mile away when you're treating them like children, peeking your head into their bedroom on a regular basis in an attempt to catch them doing something."

So take heart, fellow gamers! We might be blind as bats but we've got the noses of bloodhounds!

God, what a contradictory load of shit. Here's an interesting concept that I bet never crossed Cliffy's mind...maybe the problem is with the developers and publishers and not with the consumers? Publishers that say "If this homogenized piece of crap action-shooter game doesn't sell X copies, we're sacking the studio" while demanding that said studio make the game as friendly and broad-reaching as possible...which inevitably leads to a bland piece of crap that "customers can smell from a mile away" and as such the sales suffer because it's got corporate meddling's stink all over it.

I'm just waiting for the day when it all comes tumbling down, destroy all the corrosion and corruption in the current league of publishers and developers and gives way for the new companies to grow, expand, and take their place. Essentially like how a purging fire on the plains is actually good for the environment.

 

[RoBi3.0]

After the last article quoting Cliffy B., Why the hell are we still giving this dude the time of day?

Maybe becomes he was an industry insider for almost two decades and has developed more then one wildly successful game. Might be he my know something about the industry. Just sayin.


He has a point the only way to change is to offer gamer abetter deal and digital. Obliviously, brute forcing a change by take something away and not offering anything in return is not the way to go.

 

[Dragonbums]

After the last article quoting Cliffy B., Why the hell are we still giving this dude the time of day?

Maybe becomes he was an industry insider for almost two decades and has developed more then one wildly successful game. Might be he my know something about the industry. Just sayin.


He has a point the only way to change is to offer gamer abetter deal and digital. Obliviously, brute forcing a change by take something away and not offering anything in return is not the way to go.

There are plenty of people in the game industry who have made financial success off of many games. That doesn't mean that they are smart or say the best of things.

EA makes millions, and we don't trust a word that comes out of their mouths.

It seems, as far as the Escapist goes, half the things he says are downright laughable, at worst ignorant.

 

[RoBi3.0]

After the last article quoting Cliffy B., Why the hell are we still giving this dude the time of day?

Maybe becomes he was an industry insider for almost two decades and has developed more then one wildly successful game. Might be he my know something about the industry. Just sayin.


He has a point the only way to change is to offer gamer abetter deal and digital. Obliviously, brute forcing a change by take something away and not offering anything in return is not the way to go.

There are plenty of people in the game industry who have made financial success off of many games. That doesn't mean that they are smart or say the best of things.

EA makes millions, and we don't trust a word that comes out of their mouths.

It seems, as far as the Escapist goes, half the things he says are downright laughable, at worst ignorant.

I don't take anything anyone says as gospel truth, but when CliffyB says day one digital needs to be cheaper then disks then I think his words have merit. When he says more micro-transactions are coming, I say thanks, but I didn't need you to tell me that. That trend is on the steady rise.

CliffyB likes to troll people. This is a fact. That doesn't Change the fact that what he has said in this article has merit.

 

[SecondPrize]

Bleszinki makes a big deal about Gamestop pushing used sales over new, but there's a reason they do that. Game retailers make so much more profit from used sales because they only make a buck or two from selling a new title. If you're going to set it up so you reap the lion's share in new game sales, don't be surprised when retailers push used sales.

 

[samwise970]

and affirming his belief that the changes the Xbox One would bring to used games might be a necessity for AAA titles to survive.

I was unaware that the Xbone was going to drop development costs and stop the companies from wasting money.

Then you are unaware of how the videogame industry works. Games are, by definition, a loss leader. Millions of dollars are spent on development, but publishers only recoup their losses and hopefully make a profit when new copies are sold. The massive used games market is REALLY bad for anyone who makes their living developing games, because they see no money from the huge portion of the market that can only afford to buy most of their games for used prices. Digital distribution is a really good solution for this that removes the middle-man and actually allows for competitive sales. In the end, gamers end up with a system like Steam that occasionally gives us really great games for insanely low prices, and devs actually get money for those sales, so they can keep making games!

Most gamers don't realize this, but the traditional publishing model is in a really bad way with the current brick-and-mortar used games business. When you go to GameStop and get a used copy of, lets say, The Witcher 2 for 360, you are giving GameStop 100% of that money, and although you're enjoying the work of an amazing dev studio, they won't see any profit from your purchase. With digital distribution, they can sell that AAA game for six freaking bucks (right now on gog.com), and actually come out ahead!

If the Xbone had come out as announced, and publishers were allowed to 'block' used games, you wouldn't see a gamestop filled with nothing but $60 new titles, you would likely see close to the same prices you see now, the only difference would have been that publishers and devs would have actually seen a share of profit from their hard work. If anything, giving publishers price control would be good for gamers, finally allowing for competitive pricing of console games, rather than what we have now.

 

[sturryz]

AAA Titles can't survive because they are generic and stupid, it's not gamers fault that companys are splurging on the graphic's budget (which to be honest, seems to be where most of the budget is going.) CliffyB doesn't seem to understand how damaging his comments are to his reputation.

 

[Something Amyss]

Or it could be that the games, no matter what people on the Internet say, just are not good or they do not sell at all because of being too niche or for some other reasonable explanation.

Nahh. Has to be executives.

Yeah, that's why the last Gears of War didn't sell so hot. Too niche.

...I mean, seriously? That's what you're going for, dude?

 

[Something Amyss]

Maybe becomes he was an industry insider for almost two decades and has developed more then one wildly successful game. Might be he my know something about the industry. Just sayin.

So might Peter Moore and John Riccitiello, but people don't treat them as though their word is gospel.

Incidentally, he does have a point. It appears to be accidental, because the point he's trying to make is USED GAMES ARE KILLING THE BUSINESS. Yeah, better digital and netter deals are an actual solution. Except his solution has been to blame gamers for refusing to stop buying used, because surely that's the reason games that can sell 5 million copies and be considered failures aren't making enough money.

In any other industry, people would be all "maybe we should sell a reasonable product with production costs within the means of the market." Well, any other industry but the American automotive industry, who saw high gas prices and a recession and thought "you know what Americans want? Nothing but SUVs and monster trucks!"

And in the end, they needed to be bailed out, so maybe there's a lesson here.

What Cliff Blurty is saying is technically correct: something's gotta give. But if you look at his tirades against usd games, it's the not the prices or the online model. Except, evidently, if the online model is too permissive.

 

[songbird15]

We didn't mess this up MS messed this up. If you want to change the world you don't give it to MS PR to sell, worse bit of PR I have ever seen.
You really can't at this point stop physical media, unless ofc you don't want to sell you product. Many ppl's data caps won't allow them to download anywhere from 20-50 gigs.
Nothing about these changes stops MS from promoting digital sales. But it is up to them to SELL IT to ppl.

And they are awful at that.

They had to make this argument, and they didn't.

The message was lost and so was the battle, but maybe not the war.

 

[jericu]

If a game can sell 3-5 million copies and be considered a failure, the problem isn't used games, it's development costs. Forcing the consumer to never buy used copies isn't going to help much. It's treating a symptom, not a disease, so to speak. If games go all digital, and prevent people from buying used games (the only reason I can think of where anyone would legitimately want an all-digital future), we might see some improvements in sales. A little bit. But eventually, no matter what happens, the costs either need to go down or the whole system is going to collapse. Probably the latter.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Cliff, Cliff, Cliff. I thought we'd covered this before, so I'll make this as simple as possible.

If the system is so broken that millions of sales still isn't enough to save a game, then you don't break the customers to conform to the system- you fix the system.

Go talk to the guy who made Gunpoint. Total investment of $30, made enough money to become an independent developer.