CliffyB: Microsoft Tried to "Have it Both Ways"

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CardinalPiggles

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Jun 24, 2010
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nodlimax said:
Real [Enthusiastic] gamers read about new developments themselves and are going to buy good and interesting games.
Agreed. That's pretty much what I was going to say.

The Witcher 2 made a ton of money without dumbing down the game or shelling out tens of millions in marketing alone. And so did Dark Souls.

And yet Tomb Raider sold 5 million in a month or whatever and it "Failed to meet sales expectations".

Developers and publishers need to take a good look at such examples. Only one game can be Call of Duty, and that's Call of Duty. Only one game can be WoW, and guess who that is?
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

The Killjoy Detective returns!
Jan 23, 2011
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CriticalMiss said:
I bet Cliffy B is taking it both ways from Microsoft. HIIIYOOOOO. Can I get a high five? *hand up*
*high five*
OP: Some people just don't get it. They can't be bought or reasoned with. Some men just want to watch the industry crash.
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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HELLO, FLIP-FLOP!

Wow, can you believe this guy? He's already a certified politician and everything!

Quick! Someone ask him about the war on terror! The WORLD must know his well-considered opinion!

(So much funnyness...)
 

weirdee

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Apr 11, 2011
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While...I won't say "apologists"- proponents of the xbone's digital transition claim that we should have had faith in the new system, the overall way they handled it was largely a breach of both expectations and trust. Granted, all the marketing in the world won't cover up the downsides to the system, but I daresay they could have at least tried to appeal to their primary target market first, instead of alienating most of them.

In any case, unless Microsoft is willing to actually take the first step towards shedding the excesses of the past without burdening it with crazy sounding conditions, there won't be a future for them any time soon.
 

EvolutionKills

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Whatever, just let it ride out. So what if we're approaching the end of sustainability for the AAA games market? Either adapt and survive, or do something else.

In the 70's, the US got hit with the oil and gas crisis, and the sustainability of America's gas-guzzling cars was put into the spotlight. It killed muscle cars, and Detroit spent a decade playing catch up with emissions controls. But you know what else happened? We saw the birth of the American golden age of motorcycles, which gave rise to classics like the Honda CB750K (the founder of the moniker 'superbike'). We also saw the influx of foreign auto manufacturers, such as Datsun (now Nissan), Totota, Honda, and Volkswagen. We saw a new direction of cars, and we got new models we wouldn't have seen otherwise, like the Datsun 240Z and the Honda CRX (the founder of the 'pocket rocket' hatchbacks). Yeah, it basically neutered the Corvette and Mustang until Detroit learned to adapt to the new environment, but so be it. We got smaller, safer, and more fuel efficient cars because of it.

The AAA games market will figure itself out, or morph into something else. Not everything can, or needs to be, the next Call of Duty or Madden. Likewise, not everything needed or could be a classic Corvette or Mustang. Others will rise to take their places, to fill new or existing niches.

Hell, my most anticipated game this year (barring a surprise holiday release for Fallout 4), is the pseudo-sequel to Terraria known as Starbound. No seriously, go check it out. Development team of about a dozen people. I'm also psyched for the Wasteland and Shadowrun games coming out of Kickstarter. It'll be a good year for gaming, even sans the AAA market. They're not the only 'game' in town, and if they collapse under their own weight, others will fill the gap. They always do.
 

Dr. Octogonopus

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I personally think that used games can be helpfull to game developers. Case in point: When Arkham Asylum first came out I completely ignored it as to me superhero games are generally pretty poor. But when I saw a second hand copy selling for dirt cheap I decided to give it a bash. Turns out it was one of the best games I own on PS3 and I ended up buying arkham city on launch day for about 3 times the price of my second hand asylum. But now thanks to day one dlc I've lost interest in the series.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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kiri2tsubasa said:
Talking about the closing of studios part.
And the thing is, studios closing because they're too "niche" is a load of crap, still. There may be some, but they are not the issue here. I would think anyone with the awareness to follow context would pick up on this. We're having studios closing left and right despite releasing games with good aggregates (which matter to publishers) and good sales, because they weren't good enough.

Contextually, this is what Cliff's been talking about with his rants about how we can't expect high budget games to survive if we allow used game sales. Cliff wasn't alluding to niche titles, he was alluding to the big ones Gamestop tries to get you to trade in/for. He's repeatedly brought up huge budgets. He's referenced some of the biggest freaking franchises on the freaking planet. Can you see why saying "maybe it's because they're too niche" is ridiculous?

In short, you're ranting at me because you didn't pay attention to the subject at hand. Not cool, man, not cool.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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FalloutJack said:
HELLO, FLIP-FLOP!

Wow, can you believe this guy? He's already a certified politician and everything!

Quick! Someone ask him about the war on terror! The WORLD must know his well-considered opinion!

(So much funnyness...)
He even contradicts himself in his blog, talking about messaging, then giving an example of a thinly-veiled "fuck off" to the consumer...And then acknowledges it. I'm not sure if he's serious anymore.
 

spartandude

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Nov 24, 2009
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If i may misquote Marcus Fenix

"Its a giant budget! They're sinking AAA games with a giant budget!"
 

hooksashands

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Apr 11, 2010
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I'm still trying to figure what exactly Cliffy B. does to make his money. His marketing strategy sucks, his attitude towards the consumer sucks and his main franchise (GoW) has lost any appeal to mainstream audiences. The only people I know who bought Judgement were diehard fans already; everyone else could care less.

So I guess my question is, does this guy ever stop and consider reality before opening his mouth to talk about how much we love giving Microsoft money?
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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Zachary Amaranth said:
FalloutJack said:
HELLO, FLIP-FLOP!

Wow, can you believe this guy? He's already a certified politician and everything!

Quick! Someone ask him about the war on terror! The WORLD must know his well-considered opinion!

(So much funnyness...)
He even contradicts himself in his blog, talking about messaging, then giving an example of a thinly-veiled "fuck off" to the consumer...And then acknowledges it. I'm not sure if he's serious anymore.
I'm not sure he was EVER serious.
 

Atmos Duality

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Bix96 said:
Am I the only one left on the planet who likes physical media? I'm proud to look at my bookshelves full of games dating all the way back to the NES and when my friends bring their kindles over and say "look I've got like 100 books on this thing" it seems so lame.
One of the only remaining benefits of consoles over PC was the simplicity and familiarity with physical media.
Making the consumer jump through all those hoops to play games (and all the prior restrictions of the Xbone pertained only to games) seems counter-intuitive to me.

So yeah...if they're going to do that, why not just get or build a decent gaming PC?
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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Aug 30, 2011
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...this all still being based on the premise that used games have a significant impact on sales.

Yes, digital is the future, but that doesn't mean Microsoft can jump the gun and subject consumers to a shitty infrastructure they shouldn't have to deal with. And it doesn't mean the end of used sales. And I resent that there are people in the industry who want to put more of the game into DLC to restrict resale when the game isn't going to get any cheaper.

But as for games failing and studios being closed, I put that down to publishers having input into the actual game despite not knowing anything about games, ridiculous production costs, and $60 a game.
 

Madman123456

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Feb 11, 2011
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...warning gamers that they were being "played" and affirming his belief that the changes the Xbox One would bring to used games might be a necessity for AAA titles to survive.
I love some of the big titles. But if that is what it would take to have them survive i say let them die.

It is about enough. I have slugged my way through enough DRM and i have paid for enough mismanagement. This market is quite oversaturated and many of the games aren't worth much two months after launch.

There is a certain kind of triple A games that will most definitely survive, the really big ones. The Fallouts, the Elderscrolls, the GTAs, the big giant open world games. Maybe the aforementioned franchises will go the way of everything but the big fat titles that are the definitive game in their genre and will stay there for quite some time will stay with us and so i'm perfectly fine with letting most of the industry shrivel and die.


Frankly, with some of the working conditions seen in some companies it would be better for just about everyone if most of the industry where to die. If some guy from team bondi for example can not find a job in the industry again and has no other choice but to flip burgers to support himself he could work on tiny little games in his freetime and it would probably be more fulfilling then working with team bondi, where you don't make games but rather a tiny part of a game.

In Shifts that would have to be shortened by 50% so they could be called "brutal".

People at team bondi where apparently threatened that they will never find any work in the industry if they can't keep up with the workload.
Well, if the industry is like that, i'd haul ass.
Sure, maybe working on garagegames is merely a flimsy shadow of what my dream would be but if i get crushed under workload i might as well stop dreaming.


Apparently a month of crunchtime is perfectly normal. I'm getting the feeling that my money would be used to keep these disagreeable circumstances around.


Even if i'm wrong and *all* the triple A titles go away, this is something i wouldn't want to support even if the bosses of the ridiculously hard working people wouldn't treat me like a criminal. I'd rather crush dreams then people.

Maybe there will be a market for the really big games, the giant projects of passion but if there isn't, i can live with it.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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FalloutJack said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
FalloutJack said:
HELLO, FLIP-FLOP!

Wow, can you believe this guy? He's already a certified politician and everything!

Quick! Someone ask him about the war on terror! The WORLD must know his well-considered opinion!

(So much funnyness...)
He even contradicts himself in his blog, talking about messaging, then giving an example of a thinly-veiled "fuck off" to the consumer...And then acknowledges it. I'm not sure if he's serious anymore.
I'm not sure he was EVER serious.
Bad wording. I meant "I'm no longer certain he's serious," not "I think he has ceased being serious."

IF he goes to the next Gamestop con dealie, I'm pretty sure we can assume he's a troll.

(Especially since he's no longer active in Epic and the development of games)
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Zoop zoop
Yes, to which I make the joke "Well, I most-assuredly believe that this man has never had a serious bone in his body insofar as people have known him" or words to that effect.
 

Vylox

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May 3, 2013
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I'm just going to say...
Skyim


It had a relatively low development budget, a small marketing budget, and sold extremely well.

To the developers and publishers. It isn't the customer's job to fix problems you create, its your jobs to fix your business models to make the company a success. Stop blaming others for your damn mistakes and problems, and fix them already. I mean... most of you corporate bums have degrees in business management and administration, so use that information and be a real business leader or administrator. You can't blame the people who spent $60 on your games for it not making enough profit when it sold 3-5 million copies, its not their fault, its YOURS for not doing your damn job to ensure profitability, by reducing development and marketing costs.
 

mokes310

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Oct 13, 2008
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I don't agree with his opinion that things have to change, specifically in regards to AAA titles. If you make a solid game, I won't need to sell it. Guess where my copies of Fallout 3/NV (both first release and GOTY editions), Skyrim, Battlefield 2 & 3, and Forza 3 & 4 are?

However, I do agree with his opinion that digital distribution is the way we are heading, whether it comes sooner rather than later is the really hard question to predict...