Concentration Camp Game Canceled Due to Backlash

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Baresark

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Petromir said:
Baresark said:
Petromir said:
While theres potential for a game based around the event, it needs to be done in a tastefull manner. This was not the way to do it.

That said it doesnt look worth the effort to ban. A modern mindless shooter doing it perhaps.

If you're going to cover a sensitive historical event then do it sensitively, especially in a medium thats not got out of the get attacked at every turn stage. If you dont then you'll make the suituation worse not better.
I can't agree with you. The way you talk about tasteful is just a way of dumbing it down. There is nothing tasteful about the way Muslims are depicted in modern shooters. But you don't see the public outcry there. No one complains when a "terrorist" depicted in games gets killed, we cheer and go about our day. Where is all the tasteful sensitivity then. No, it's because we are talking about the complaints of Jewish folks, most of which were not alive at that time.

I'm not trying to jump down your throat, but you can't be sensitive to one group, then joyously destroy the likenesses of others. I think we could agree that there is no video game with this premise they would ever allow through, without a big fight.
Theres pleanty of outcry when specific groups are used in anything but the most serious of simulations.

The whole reason for the relitive lack of outrage over terrorist based games is that their methods are whats wrong not their reasoning. Its intersting as well that you immediately assume terrorist=muslim and that a certain style of dress = terrosist, and indeed that arabian dree= muslim. There are pleanty of terrorist groups out there that are very different to said recent steryotypes. There are also games that have covered them.

It should also be noted that if you can link in with current evets, even if you distance yourself from a potrayal of the actual events. This is genrally done by takign some defining chareacteristics of the conflicts going on (prefriable involving the forces of you're target audiences country, so genrally in western FPS's the US often with a UK contingent). THis means in recent years pretty much you're going to end up with a middle eastern conflict, with the US involved. Other connections are likely to include an ex-soviet block or chinease arms connection.

Modern world or historical sttings will by their very nature revolve around the relevant political blocks of the time. And yes there has been pleanty of outrage about some of the more foolish picks. Hell most mainstream games try to avoid implicitaly suggecsting that religion is at the core of any conflict.

Even so most games that do touch on such things tend to avoid the truely controverial incidents. This game did not, it went straight for it, and ignored any potential depth and just went for the lowest common denomintor. This would have been substandard for a game set in an entirely fictional setting, with no hint of genocide.

Being sensitve to one group alone would be wrong, but I see little evidence of this.
I don't disagree with what your saying. I used the word terrorist in quotes because a large percentage of the US population see's it this way. I would think it below us to try and turn that fact against me seeing as how I don't identify Muslims as terrorists personally. But my argument still stands. This could have been done as more than a Wolf3D mod, but I don't believe these people would ever let anything through involving this content. The group in question is easily one of the most sensitive groups around. The truth is, this mod wouldn't have hurt them, it wouldn't have helped them, those arguments are nonsensical. But, now it has hurt them and only ensured that such a thing will be produced by someone who may decide that it should be more inflammatory out of spite. Maybe it won't be any worse than it already is either, if we're lucky.
 

Dooly95

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Come on. If the guy wanted to make a Wolf3d mod he would have just done so without mentioning "based on WW2 concentration camp escapes". The whole thing was just so he could get some publicity, and he got more than what he expected.

It's a tasteless game, I have no idea why people are getting riled up. Are they banning games based on the holocaust illegal because of this? Are they banning all wolf3d mods?

Inglorious Bastards, Shindler's List were all produced with some thought in mind. This mod? I'm doubtful he gave it anything more than "lol shooting nazis".
 

Flying Dagger

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if it had been a game that truly enshrined the horror of such places, I think they'd be able to show it to them and they'd understand.
I don't think anyone's getting their revelations from wolfenstein anymore, especially not the original one.

probably a good call by the ADL
 

neograpeshot

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I don't get it. It's a wolf3d mod, how did it even get enough publicity to catch the ADL's attention, much less what leverage does ADL have against the development to make them stop?
A game like that takes what to design, produce, and release? A month and couple of guys in a basement? A budget of $20 for the pizza?
 

Rensenhito

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Let me get this straight: Tarantino can make Inglourious Basterds, which most definitely trivializes the war and the Holocaust, and no one makes a fuss because it's a movie.
Is our medium really so hated?
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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Imperator_DK said:
danpascooch said:
...
Their statement that it's "off-limits" is nuts, but do you really thing the game treats the issue with the taste and maturity it deserves?

I don't. It's not off limits, but it needs to be carefully and properly portrayed.
That should be a matter of individual taste, not general availability.

Those who are offended by it can simply refrain from downloading it. It's an indie mod for a 1992 game, it's not like they'd have encountered it unless they actively and specifically sought it out in the first place.
It should DEFINITELY be a matter of individual taste, which is why this game is not being banned by the government of made illegal (which I would be fully against) it is being criticized by INDIVIDUALS who find it offensive, they have every right to protest, and this time I actually agree that it shouldn't be made.

I think there should definitely be games on the Holocaust, but they should treat the subject with the respect it deserves.
 

Jerious1154

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Rensenhito said:
Let me get this straight: Tarantino can make Inglourious Basterds, which most definitely trivializes the war and the Holocaust, and no one makes a fuss because it's a movie.
Is our medium really so hated?
How many scenes in Inglourious Basterds took place in concentration camps? Inglourious Basterds takes place in the context of the Holocaust, and they certainly mention it a lot, but it's not about the Holocaust and it certainly does not in any way make light of the actual suffering in the concentration camps.

That's why the whole "movies can do it" argument doesn't fly. Movies can do it because movies that are actually about the Holocaust treat the subject matter with respect. Games could do that too, and I would have no problem with it. This game, however, is beyond tasteless. It shouldn't be censored, and it hasn't been censored. But groups like the ADL have every right to be offended and to protest, which they did, and the creators caved.
 

hem dazon 90

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Kadoodle said:
"Umm... fuck that. Seriously not to trivialize the holocaust but I don't see why people act like it was the worst genocide in history. It wasn't. And the fact that Israel still uses it as a get-out-of-jail-free card all the time just pisses me off. They should be glad Germany actually admits that the Holocaust happened. The Chinese still deny the Tiananmen Square Massacre. The Turks still deny the Armenian Genocide right before WWI. More people died by the hand of Josef Stalin's Holodomor than people in the Holocaust. People, not just Jews. Genocide is never okay, but the fact that people act like it was the worst thing to ever happen in history is just fueling the fire."

The holocaust deserves extra attention because it was not mindless killing. Every part was carefully planned, every death was a systematic execution, and the treatment of prisoners was worse than torture. Other genocides, such as darfur, or the Tienanmen square massacre, are/were in the moment killings. No gas chambers. No ovens. No living in shacks with sawdust bread for food. Know your shit before you spew it out your mouth.
His point is that Isreal uses it as a get out of jail free card which it totally does. They kick Muslims off their land because THEYRE DA CHOSEN ONES11!1 And if anyone protests people say "Oh you must be a lil Hitler" Hitler was a fuck but that does not mean they can do whatever they want.
 

Gigano

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danpascooch said:
...

It should DEFINITELY be a matter of individual taste, which is why this game is not being banned by the government of made illegal (which I would be fully against) it is being criticized by INDIVIDUALS who find it offensive, they have every right to protest, and this time I actually agree that it shouldn't be made.

I think there should definitely be games on the Holocaust, but they should treat the subject with the respect it deserves.
Indeed. They have every right to have their say, and as long as they don't push for denying their opponents the right to make it, I certainly have no objection that they speak up. If the creators caved by their own choice, then they won the verbal just fair and square.

However, anyone have the right to verbally lay into them for demeaning gaming as a medium, thinking that some subjects are off limits to other individuals, and caring about a something as insignificant as an underground mod for an ancient game in the first place with all the far serious defamation (including against gaming) seen in the mass media.

So it's not really about their opposition to the game content, it's about their demeaning of gaming as a medium and the "off-limits"-thing they espoused along the way.
 

Kadoodle

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MatsVS said:
Kadoodle said:
Know your shit before you spew it out your mouth.
That's a completely arbitrary distinction to make, unless your morality comes straight out of The Divine Comedy. Jewish lives are not somehow more worth, even if the crimes committed against them half a century ago were more sinister than most.

That said, jews do not have monopoly on the holocaust. Just the fact that we refer to it as "The Holocaust" is a testimony to how bad this pussy-footing has become. It was not The Holocaust, it was a holocaust.
And you would say that the spanish inquisition should be called "a spanish inquisition?"
 

Kadoodle

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hem dazon 90 said:
Kadoodle said:
"Umm... fuck that. Seriously not to trivialize the holocaust but I don't see why people act like it was the worst genocide in history. It wasn't. And the fact that Israel still uses it as a get-out-of-jail-free card all the time just pisses me off. They should be glad Germany actually admits that the Holocaust happened. The Chinese still deny the Tiananmen Square Massacre. The Turks still deny the Armenian Genocide right before WWI. More people died by the hand of Josef Stalin's Holodomor than people in the Holocaust. People, not just Jews. Genocide is never okay, but the fact that people act like it was the worst thing to ever happen in history is just fueling the fire."

The holocaust deserves extra attention because it was not mindless killing. Every part was carefully planned, every death was a systematic execution, and the treatment of prisoners was worse than torture. Other genocides, such as darfur, or the Tienanmen square massacre, are/were in the moment killings. No gas chambers. No ovens. No living in shacks with sawdust bread for food. Know your shit before you spew it out your mouth.
His point is that Isreal uses it as a get out of jail free card which it totally does. They kick Muslims off their land because THEYRE DA CHOSEN ONES11!1 And if anyone protests people say "Oh you must be a lil Hitler" Hitler was a fuck but that does not mean they can do whatever they want.
There is no "theyr da chosen ones."

Have you ever even been to Israel?
Nobody uses the holocaust as an excuse card. The creation of Israel as a Jewish State relied on that card, purely because Jews had nowhere else to go and they wanted their own country...but other than that its not used as an excuse.
 

Kadoodle

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Kurokami said:
Plurralbles said:
Kurokami said:
Plurralbles said:
THAT IS BULLSHIT!

Fuck everyone who gets offended at a fcking game. Shit. No one, or almostno one, is fcking alive from those camps anymore. It's history. Get over it.

It was the msot interesting premise for a game of hte year.

Damnit.
I know a lot of people from the camps.
you are the exception to the rule.

Were they all very upset?
About the genocide yes, the game they wouldn't even know about and I imagine the feelings would be mixed, a whole lot of people that age don't understand gaming in the first place, those ones would be fairly offended, I know a few who would probably actually be quite interested in it as they'd share a similar opinion to me on the idea of this game, that its just another mark of history that would be nice to play.
Kadoodle said:
I don't mind the holocaust in games, but depicting the concentration camps in an action shooter seems wrong to me. It would have to be a very well done game with a story like Heavy Rain to pass, not some dumb wolfenstein ripoff.
Why? Jews don't like playing the victims, why not chuck 'em a virtual gun and have them shooting at some Nazis. Personally I agree that an epic story could be made out of it, but even if it is just like some sort of mindless, ball-first type shooter, why is that such a bad thing?
Because its not about revenge. It's not about getting even. It's not about going all call of duty and kicking ass. It's not childish.

The holocaust is serious. Wolfenstein mods...are on the other end of the stick.
 

dashiz94

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dakorok said:
Why is this holocaust "untouchable" by video games? It's irritating how people are forced to tiptoe around this issue, and it seems almost like we worship it at times, due to backwards statements like the one here.

The holocaust isn't the only instance of genocide in the modern world, nor is it the most recent. Why, then, is it all people seem to care about?
Because here's a happy little fact, the Holocaust was issued by a legitimate government that ruled what could be considered at the time a world superpower. The entire time the execution was going on, no one cared. The U.S. didn't care, the Europeans didn't care. Hell, the Russians didn't even liberate the camps out of kindness, their mission was to stick it to the Germans and also to make sure the Germans wouldn't use such camps to launch attacks from.

No one cared about them dying, even when it was being ordered by the government. This wasn't a situation like Darfur where the region is just fucked up, this happened in a civilized (relatively speaking) country with a powerful government. That's why it's so damn important.
 

hem dazon 90

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Kadoodle said:
hem dazon 90 said:
Kadoodle said:
"Umm... fuck that. Seriously not to trivialize the holocaust but I don't see why people act like it was the worst genocide in history. It wasn't. And the fact that Israel still uses it as a get-out-of-jail-free card all the time just pisses me off. They should be glad Germany actually admits that the Holocaust happened. The Chinese still deny the Tiananmen Square Massacre. The Turks still deny the Armenian Genocide right before WWI. More people died by the hand of Josef Stalin's Holodomor than people in the Holocaust. People, not just Jews. Genocide is never okay, but the fact that people act like it was the worst thing to ever happen in history is just fueling the fire."

The holocaust deserves extra attention because it was not mindless killing. Every part was carefully planned, every death was a systematic execution, and the treatment of prisoners was worse than torture. Other genocides, such as darfur, or the Tienanmen square massacre, are/were in the moment killings. No gas chambers. No ovens. No living in shacks with sawdust bread for food. Know your shit before you spew it out your mouth.
His point is that Isreal uses it as a get out of jail free card which it totally does. They kick Muslims off their land because THEYRE DA CHOSEN ONES11!1 And if anyone protests people say "Oh you must be a lil Hitler" Hitler was a fuck but that does not mean they can do whatever they want.
There is no "theyr da chosen ones."

Have you ever even been to Israel?
Nobody uses the holocaust as an excuse card. The creation of Israel as a Jewish State relied on that card, purely because Jews had nowhere else to go and they wanted their own country...but other than that its not used as an excuse.

Well why put it on land that is already owned? That's like some serious General Custer shit.
 

TheEndlessSleep

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No matter how horrible the Holocaust was:

We have to consider that more people died horrifically in WW2, and there have been more games about that period of history than any other.

Also, this is a game and just a bit of fun, and while the scource material could admittedly be more tasteful in the grand scheme of things, it's all down to how they present it as to how acceptably it will be.

However, due to that screenshot; it looks like the game involves the player gunning down helpless Jews, which is, undoubtedly, the wrong kind of presentation.
 

Kadoodle

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Nov 2, 2010
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hem dazon 90 said:
Kadoodle said:
hem dazon 90 said:
Kadoodle said:
"Umm... fuck that. Seriously not to trivialize the holocaust but I don't see why people act like it was the worst genocide in history. It wasn't. And the fact that Israel still uses it as a get-out-of-jail-free card all the time just pisses me off. They should be glad Germany actually admits that the Holocaust happened. The Chinese still deny the Tiananmen Square Massacre. The Turks still deny the Armenian Genocide right before WWI. More people died by the hand of Josef Stalin's Holodomor than people in the Holocaust. People, not just Jews. Genocide is never okay, but the fact that people act like it was the worst thing to ever happen in history is just fueling the fire."

The holocaust deserves extra attention because it was not mindless killing. Every part was carefully planned, every death was a systematic execution, and the treatment of prisoners was worse than torture. Other genocides, such as darfur, or the Tienanmen square massacre, are/were in the moment killings. No gas chambers. No ovens. No living in shacks with sawdust bread for food. Know your shit before you spew it out your mouth.
His point is that Isreal uses it as a get out of jail free card which it totally does. They kick Muslims off their land because THEYRE DA CHOSEN ONES11!1 And if anyone protests people say "Oh you must be a lil Hitler" Hitler was a fuck but that does not mean they can do whatever they want.
There is no "theyr da chosen ones."

Have you ever even been to Israel?
Nobody uses the holocaust as an excuse card. The creation of Israel as a Jewish State relied on that card, purely because Jews had nowhere else to go and they wanted their own country...but other than that its not used as an excuse.

Well why put it on land that is already owned? That's like some serious General Custer shit.
Because the land was owned by the BRITISH, who GAVE it to them.
 

hem dazon 90

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Aug 12, 2008
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Kadoodle said:
hem dazon 90 said:
Kadoodle said:
hem dazon 90 said:
Kadoodle said:
"Umm... fuck that. Seriously not to trivialize the holocaust but I don't see why people act like it was the worst genocide in history. It wasn't. And the fact that Israel still uses it as a get-out-of-jail-free card all the time just pisses me off. They should be glad Germany actually admits that the Holocaust happened. The Chinese still deny the Tiananmen Square Massacre. The Turks still deny the Armenian Genocide right before WWI. More people died by the hand of Josef Stalin's Holodomor than people in the Holocaust. People, not just Jews. Genocide is never okay, but the fact that people act like it was the worst thing to ever happen in history is just fueling the fire."

The holocaust deserves extra attention because it was not mindless killing. Every part was carefully planned, every death was a systematic execution, and the treatment of prisoners was worse than torture. Other genocides, such as darfur, or the Tienanmen square massacre, are/were in the moment killings. No gas chambers. No ovens. No living in shacks with sawdust bread for food. Know your shit before you spew it out your mouth.
His point is that Isreal uses it as a get out of jail free card which it totally does. They kick Muslims off their land because THEYRE DA CHOSEN ONES11!1 And if anyone protests people say "Oh you must be a lil Hitler" Hitler was a fuck but that does not mean they can do whatever they want.
There is no "theyr da chosen ones."

Have you ever even been to Israel?
Nobody uses the holocaust as an excuse card. The creation of Israel as a Jewish State relied on that card, purely because Jews had nowhere else to go and they wanted their own country...but other than that its not used as an excuse.

Well why put it on land that is already owned? That's like some serious General Custer shit.
Because the land was owned by the BRITISH, who GAVE it to them.

The land was lived on by the ARABS though.
 

Kadoodle

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Nov 2, 2010
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hem dazon 90 said:
Kadoodle said:
hem dazon 90 said:
Kadoodle said:
hem dazon 90 said:
Kadoodle said:
"Umm... fuck that. Seriously not to trivialize the holocaust but I don't see why people act like it was the worst genocide in history. It wasn't. And the fact that Israel still uses it as a get-out-of-jail-free card all the time just pisses me off. They should be glad Germany actually admits that the Holocaust happened. The Chinese still deny the Tiananmen Square Massacre. The Turks still deny the Armenian Genocide right before WWI. More people died by the hand of Josef Stalin's Holodomor than people in the Holocaust. People, not just Jews. Genocide is never okay, but the fact that people act like it was the worst thing to ever happen in history is just fueling the fire."

The holocaust deserves extra attention because it was not mindless killing. Every part was carefully planned, every death was a systematic execution, and the treatment of prisoners was worse than torture. Other genocides, such as darfur, or the Tienanmen square massacre, are/were in the moment killings. No gas chambers. No ovens. No living in shacks with sawdust bread for food. Know your shit before you spew it out your mouth.
His point is that Isreal uses it as a get out of jail free card which it totally does. They kick Muslims off their land because THEYRE DA CHOSEN ONES11!1 And if anyone protests people say "Oh you must be a lil Hitler" Hitler was a fuck but that does not mean they can do whatever they want.
There is no "theyr da chosen ones."

Have you ever even been to Israel?
Nobody uses the holocaust as an excuse card. The creation of Israel as a Jewish State relied on that card, purely because Jews had nowhere else to go and they wanted their own country...but other than that its not used as an excuse.

Well why put it on land that is already owned? That's like some serious General Custer shit.
Because the land was owned by the BRITISH, who GAVE it to them.

The land was lived on by the ARABS though.
Irrelevant who lived on it, it didn't belong to them. And guess what? The original plan was to split the land 50/50, but then the Arabs decided to break the deal by attempting to push the Jews out. Well, the Jews won and so they pushed a number of Arabs out instead. And there are still plenty of Arabs there today.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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I'll be honest in saying that as a believer in freedom of speech I feel nothing is off limits, ESPECIALLY things like The Holocaust. I back Isreal and groups like the ADL on a lot of things, I've irritated a lot of people over the years by having such strong pro-Isreali sentiments in the war with Palestine for example, but this is something I can't agree with them on.

It's been long enough since "The Holocaust" where I feel it's fine to do things with it, including very irreverant works if that floats people's boat.

I'll also point out that what I've seen on that game is nothing compared to the irreverance that was present in movies like "Ilsa, She Wolf Of the SS":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilsa,_She_Wolf_of_the_SS

Which was loosely based on a real person

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilse_Koch

The point here being that we've already been here for decades, like it or not. I think the Anti-Defemation League needs to grow up. Being draconian about things like this, even the tasteless, isn't exactly going to win many friends, and is going to generate the kind of resentment that groups like the ADL are supposed to exist to prevent. Annoying 10000x as many people by trying to step on people's free speech rights as would have wound up disliking you (if anyone would) due to a game like this, is kind of counter productive.
 

Kratenser

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I dont think its for any of us to say whether its right or wrong to use the holocaust as a basis for a game. Maybe it would make things clearer, and give a better understanding of the holocaust to many people. BUT, considering how many people died in the holocaust, going near the subject is bound to bring up emotion in people. You can't win either way here.