Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates

Gergar12

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Yeah that Iran deal was only 3 weeks ago. That money still hasn't been released, the US still has it(although I think the accounts are in South Korea). And even if it was freed, no way Iran laundered 6 billion to Hamas, who then turned around and used it to buy thousands of missiles, had them smuggled into Gaza all the while training up regiments of militants and getting their equipment, all in the span of three weeks.
Yeah this invasion was a mini Normandy. It was in the planning for months if not years.
But maybe the fact the documents Saudi Arabia purchased from Jared Kushner for billions of dollars was reportedly about Israel missile defenses has something to do with it.
No, you're right I shoudn't mention SK money. It used money from the Iran deal for its missile force, and its military. Free up funds from doing welfare stuff, and put it towards the foreign batshit stuff.

It's like someone having to choose between wanting to buy alcohol, and putting food on the table, if you give them enough to do both, they will do both vs thinking about opportunity cost.
 

Thaluikhain

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People don't kill each other over religion, people invent religion so they have a reason to kill each others. Look at Muslim, it didn't take long for them to split into two faction over something insignificant just so they could fight each others. Even if they all became atheist they would just find some other reason to kill each others.
Conversely, people of different religions can live together without fighting over it if there's no reason to fight. There's been places where Christians, Muslims and Jews have co-existed mostly peacefully for centuries because they had no reason not to.
 
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Hawki

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Conversely, people of different religions can live together without fighting over it if there's no reason to fight. There's been places where Christians, Muslims and Jews have co-existed mostly peacefully for centuries because they had no reason not to.
Right, but in the 21st century, we only have to worry about one of those religions. Three guesses as to which, and the first two don't count.
 

Silvanus

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Right, but in the 21st century, we only have to worry about one of those religions. Three guesses as to which, and the first two don't count.
By "we", I assume you're not referring to humanity at large, but rather just people in Western Europe and America. Considering the tens of countries run by brutal Christian dictatorships, the LRA, and the apartheid state being operated by Likud.
 
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Thaluikhain

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A thread about a predominantly Christian country aiding a predominantly Jewish country to commit war crimes against a predominantly Muslim one did seem an odd place for the comment, yeah.
 

Hawki

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By "we", I assume you're not referring to humanity at large, but rather just people in Western Europe and America. Considering the tens of countries run by brutal Christian dictatorships, the LRA, and the apartheid state being operated by Likud.
No, I mean "we" as in humanity.

On the Jewish front, let's assume Israel is apartheid and whatnot, that's one nation state out of around 180. I'm not aware of any Jewish supremacy movements outside Israel, nor Jewish terrorist groups, as opposed to 90% of religious terrorism being Islamic. Bringing up the LRA doesn't negate this - it's like comparing a wolf to a puppy. One's larger, one bites harder, one's on a global scale, from Africa, to the ME, to Asia.

Not sure what Christian dictatorships you're referring to.
 
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Silvanus

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No, I mean "we" as in humanity.

On the Jewish front, let's assume Israel is apartheid and whatnot, that's one nation state out of around 180. I'm not aware of any Jewish supremacy movements outside Israel, nor Jewish terrorist groups, as opposed to 90% of religious terrorism being Islamic. Bringing up the LRA doesn't negate this - it's like comparing a wolf to a puppy. One's larger, one bites harder, one's on a global scale, from Africa, to the ME, to Asia.

Not sure what Christian dictatorships you're referring to.
So because Islamic terrorism exists, humanity "doesn't need to worry" about all the other shite? Is there a clause somewhere that we only need to be worried by the single greatest threat, and all the others are rendered moot?

Because if so, then the existence of climate change means we don't need to worry about Islamic terrorism.

Christian dictatorships off the top of my head include Russia, Uganda, Belarus and Eritrea.
 
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Thaluikhain

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Can we not turn the thread about Israeli warcrimes against the Palestinians into how Muslim terrorists are the only terrorists?
 
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Hawki

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So because Islamic terrorism exists, humanity "doesn't need to worry" about all the other shite? Is there a clause somewhere that we only need to be worried by the single greatest threat, and all the others are rendered moot?
No, there isn't, I never said that. But in the scope of religious terrorism/dictatorship, Islam is a cut above the others.

Because if so, then the existence of climate change means we don't need to worry about Islamic terrorism.
Yes, climate change is a greater issue than Islamic terrorism. I agree. Now pick out where I said otherwise.

Christian dictatorships off the top of my head include Russia, Uganda, Belarus and Eritrea.
Eritrea is draconian towards religion in general, including Christianity. Uganda is more of a hybrid regime, but there's nothing particularly Christian about it. Belarus is undoubtedly a dictatorship, but again, nothing particularly Christian about it, it's hardly a theocracy. Russia, again, a dictatorship, and one that has certainly used religion to its ends, but calling it a "Christian dictatorship" is a stretch. None of these are theocratical dictatorships. There's no shortage of Islamic states in the world, there's nothing remotely comparable in Christianity. Even when Christianity plays a de facto role or has oversized influence, most countries where that's the case are still secular.
 
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09philj

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There have been multiple opportunities for Israel to take an off-ramp from the conflict, but they all involve not being unhinged far right ethnonationalists hell bent on conquering everything that was formerly part of Israel or Judea and brutally oppressing any Arabs who get in their way. This has ensured that the only opposition to them doing this are now batshit insane antisemitic Islamists who won't be satisfied by anything less than the total removal of all the Jews in the vicinity and the establishment of an Islamic state that spans the whole country. If both sides were led by reasonable people they could knock up a lasting and fair peace agreement in an afternoon but decades of senseless violence and inflammatory rhetoric have removed pretty much any possibility of this. The last remaining hope for sanity to prevail is that, like in Northern Ireland, enough people get so sick of constant violence that they agree to compromise just to be rid of it, but there are no signs of this happening.
 

tstorm823

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Can we not turn the thread about Israeli warcrimes against the Palestinians into how Muslim terrorists are the only terrorists?
Why is "Conflict Between Palestine and Israel Escalates" the "thread about Israeli warcrimes"? Do you not undermine your point by doing exactly the same thing, acting as if only Israel can do wrong?

Especially given the last 24 hours, it's time for some criticism of Hamas. It's been interesting watching the reality sink in over on Reddit. Shortly after the attack, the front page news was still about Israel cutting off power to an area as if this is a war crime against Palestinians. Today, people found out that Hamas raided a rave, took hostages visiting from multiple countries, tortured a woman to death, and paraded her naked body through the streets. The tone has shifted a bit...
 
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Silvanus

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No, there isn't, I never said that. But in the scope of religious terrorism/dictatorship, Islam is a cut above the others.
You said we "don't need to worry" about the others. So yes, you sort of did say they aren't issues.

Yes, climate change is a greater issue than Islamic terrorism. I agree. Now pick out where I said otherwise.
You said we needn't worry about X because Y is worse. I applied the same reasoning to point out how silly it is.

Eritrea is draconian towards religion in general, including Christianity. Uganda is more of a hybrid regime, but there's nothing particularly Christian about it. Belarus is undoubtedly a dictatorship, but again, nothing particularly Christian about it, it's hardly a theocracy. Russia, again, a dictatorship, and one that has certainly used religion to its ends, but calling it a "Christian dictatorship" is a stretch. None of these are theocratical dictatorships.
Goalposts. You didn't say theocratic dictatorships. I said Christian dictatorships, and you said you were unaware of them. Those are four examples.

For what its worth, all four employ elements of Christian nationalism, particularly for domestic repression of minorities and justifying aggression outside. Remember Medvedev screaming about how Ukraine is run by "Satanists" and that the invasion is required to protect Christian values from Western liberalism? It's not a coincidence.
 
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Silvanus

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Why is "Conflict Between Palestine and Israel Escalates" the "thread about Israeli warcrimes"? Do you not undermine your point by doing exactly the same thing, acting as if only Israel can do wrong?

Especially given the last 24 hours, it's time for some criticism of Hamas. It's been interesting watching the reality sink in over on Reddit. Shortly after the attack, the front page news was still about Israel cutting off power to an area as if this is a war crime against Palestinians. Today, people found out that Hamas raided a rave, took hostages visiting from multiple countries, tortured a woman to death, and paraded her naked body through the streets. The tone has shifted a bit...
It may have something to do with the fact that for the majority of the past several decades, the IDF has committed far more egregious and numerous war crimes and racked up a body count far higher.

The attack of yesterday morning is a prime example of Hamas launching a war crime, and I duly brought it up. But it's also relevant to point out that in the following day and a half, the IDF have killed more civilians. And thats quite a common pattern with them. I don't know why you'd want commentators to ignore that.
 
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SilentPony

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There have been multiple opportunities for Israel to take an off-ramp from the conflict, but they all involve not being unhinged far right ethnonationalists hell bent on conquering everything that was formerly part of Israel or Judea and brutally oppressing any Arabs who get in their way. This has ensured that the only opposition to them doing this are now batshit insane antisemitic Islamists who won't be satisfied by anything less than the total removal of all the Jews in the vicinity and the establishment of an Islamic state that spans the whole country. If both sides were led by reasonable people they could knock up a lasting and fair peace agreement in an afternoon but decades of senseless violence and inflammatory rhetoric have removed pretty much any possibility of this. The last remaining hope for sanity to prevail is that, like in Northern Ireland, enough people get so sick of constant violence that they agree to compromise just to be rid of it, but there are no signs of this happening.
You're not going to find many reasonable people left in the middle east, on any side. It sucks, but the region has been subjected to decades of brain drain - everyone smart enough or wealthy enough to leave has left. The ones who remain are either the poor who will get caught up in the fighting as soldiers 'cause a job is a job, or the religious zealots hell bent on fighting this one out in the name of their God.
This conflict is just going to escalate and escalate and ends with the complete eradication of Gaza until Western nations step in and bring Israel to heel, which will take a very long time because Western nations like Israel and like the destabilizing effect it has in the middle east. They just may not being able to stomach the total annihilation of some 2 million+ people.
 

Thaluikhain

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They just may not being able to stomach the total annihilation of some 2 million+ people.
Not be too surprised if they would.

OTOH, it does seem that more and more people in the West oppose Israeli's actions, just not the governments representing those people.
 

tstorm823

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I don't know why you'd want commentators to ignore that.
One user criticized Islamic terrorists.
A second said that the thread about Israeli war crimes isn't the place for that.
I criticized them for only considering Israeli war crimes.
And now you're trying to say I'm ignoring them.
 
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Absent

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You're not going to find many reasonable people left in the middle east, on any side.
Unfortunately (because I'd care much much less), that isn't quite true. We're working with many great people on both sides. And that makes it all the more distressing, because their efforts get completely crushed by these mutual acts of violence.
 

Silvanus

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One user criticized Islamic terrorists.
A second said that the thread about Israeli war crimes isn't the place for that.
I criticized them for only considering Israeli war crimes.
And now you're trying to say I'm ignoring them.
Because "criticising them for only considering Israeli war crimes" isn't all you did, and you know it.
 

tstorm823

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Because "criticising them for only considering Israeli war crimes" isn't all you did, and you know it.
That is true. I also talked about current events that warrant criticism of Hamas. That is not contradictory.