Console Gaming

Vash the Stampede'

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Feb 3, 2010
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So much win in this conversation between my three favorite Escapist writers.

---I have to agree with Yahtzee in saying that until we acquire the tech. to do a full neurological connection we should just forget about all this motion sensor bs they are shoving down our throats. Just focus on the gameplay and story of the games that are being produced and I will be a happy man.

This debate gives me hope for humanity.............now to just get Firefly resurrected. :D
 

Sovereignty

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Jan 25, 2010
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Only thing that could make this even slightly better, would be adding a poll for the readers to vote on who's opinion held the most weight.

It'd be like an intellectual gladiator match!


FINISH HIM
 

Susan Arendt

Nerd Queen
Jan 9, 2007
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sunburst313 said:
Susan Arendt said:
Yeah, you know, oddly that doesn't really do much for me. So you might want to rethink your approach.

This is pretty much the most brilliant idea ever. I am so very excited to see more.
See, now, that is some brilliant thinking right there.
 

Frank_Sinatra_

Digs Giant Robots
Dec 30, 2008
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I really did enjoy this. Now I'm curious how exactly they communicated between each other, but it'd also be cool to say, record their voices on a joint telephone line so it'd be like a tv debate.
Perhaps they could take turns animating the stuff... Or I could. Tha'd be fun.
 

Russ Pitts

The Boss of You
May 1, 2006
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Diegolomac said:
Anyway, are we going to have one of these every week now? The announcement at the end made it look like that would happen.

Please make that happen... *.*
We'll do our best. Stay tuned!
 

Lbsjr

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Dec 29, 2010
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Tactical Fugitive said:
Cool. You guys should do a video talk show, with callers and all, discussing what's hot in the gaming world.
Then record it as well and put it on just like EC or ZP. That, and maybe more like this would be great... but only if they have the time.
 

Calcium

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Dec 30, 2010
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What is this? Why do I have a nosebleed?

It was a good, interesting read; although alot of the views have been brought up before, still nice to see a bit of a dialogue.
 

ChildofGallifrey

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May 26, 2008
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Please, in the name of mighty Zombie Jesus, make this a weekly segment! I already come to this site too much for my own good, but giving Yahtzee and Bob a column together? Now you're just trying to make me a slave.
 

internetzealot1

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Aug 11, 2009
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"I think it made the Metroid Prime games the best-controlling console-FPS setup ever."
HOLYSHITHOLYSHITHOLYSHIT BOB SAID SOMETHING GOOD ABOUT METROID PRIME!
 

JonnyMonroe

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Feb 28, 2011
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I think the point of motion controls as they apply to immersion didn't really get explored deeply enough. Both points were completely valid, but the reasoning was more to do with the games in question, not the control scheme itself.

Yes, motion controls damage immersion. This is something primal in humans; when we are using our bodies our minds becomes more aware of our surroundings. It's an old instinct we've had since we were painting naked people on cave walls (last Sunday). When the body is inactive, the mind becomes more focused and more naturally shuts out the local environment to better contemplate problem solving or just explore ideas. A body at rest can be very, very focused on a book, movie or game. you ever try to watch the A clockwork orange while running on a treadmill? Doesn't work. Translating what's being said into coherent speech requires a focused mind, which requires a resting body. And likewise, games that aim for immersion will require a resting body because immersion requires that we shut out our local surroundings. Games like Resident Evil and Silent Hill wouldn't work with real motion controls, be they programmed or 1:1 mapped, because the active body would pull the mind out of the game and into it's locality. Games that don't rely on immersion, however, are not only fine with motion controls but enhanced by them. The big one on this front is probably Wii Sports. At no point does the game ever ask you to believe that you're in a bowling alley, throwing a bowling ball. It's actually the opposite - you're fully expected to realize that the technology is allowing you to simulate bowling in your living room. That's the first thing a lot of us realised when we got our Wii home that christmas so many years ago - 'Jesus, I'm playing golf in my own front room'. The draw of those games isn't that they're trying to tell you a story, all they're doing is asking you to enjoy playing for it's own sake. That's why games that try motion control and immersion miss big. Red Steel 2? No. 0 immersion. You could have textured that whole game in prime colours and had the enemies running around in floppy clown shoes and it wouldn't have mattered. The selling point was the 1:1 sword mapping, which is something you were expected to enjoy for it's own sake O HI WII SPORTS RESORT.


So yes, motion controls damage immersion, but that's not a bad thing, it's simply something developers need to be aware of when they're trying to design an immersive game.

(1) - I don't consider the occasional wrist shake to be motion control. That's just an alternative button.

(2) - the thing I notice most about the Wii when going back to older console controls is that my hands wern't glued together. I could sit in my armchair with one arm on each armwrest without damaging my ability to control the game. Seperating the hands allowed comfort to come first. The motion controls took a back seat for me compared to being able to scratch my ass while still beating up gannondorf on horseback without pausing the game.

(3) - can people stop just beating off over the concept behind this column and actually discuss it? don't need 4 pages of 'Hey guis this is a good idea'.
 

Cousin_IT

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Feb 6, 2008
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On the Kinect. I think we as gamers have to narrow a view of the potential of the tech that Microsoft have produced in that little magic camera thing. Sure, as a gaming platform/peripheral it hasn't & probably never will expand beyond high res Wii game knockoffs. But it is the first piece of tech Microsoft have produced in a long time/ever that might finally break their being tied heavily to software development.

For instance, at a recent Microsoft journalist event [http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/rorycellanjones/2011/02/microsofts_future_only_kinect.html], a bunch of Microsoft techies showed off the various things they'd done with the Kinect, including using it as a 3D scanner replicating technology that currently costs $100k+. Their apparent moves to support the "homebrew" development using the Kinect suggest Microsoft do not see Kinect as the mere X360 peripheral we gamers seem to keep viewing it as, & we sell its potential impact short by purely thinking of it that way.
 

2xDouble

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Mar 15, 2010
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I have to disagree with Yahtzee somewhat about the holodeck. Having complete and fantastic freedom of a neural interface is appealing, but consider what more can be experienced if there was complete zen balance between your mind, your body, and your game. It is very much like playing sports. A professional athlete could never explain what it really feels like to do what they do, or why they do what they do in-game. To be "in the zone", it's reflex; instinct. Moments like that can be imitated without involvement, but never truly replicated.

There's nothing to say that simply because your entertainment is controlled by your motions and actions that they are limited to your movement and action. The holodeck systems (considering pretty much everything isn't real anyway) can compensate for our "pathetic human weakness" and let us truly feel like we are the characters we pretend to be. Of course, ideally, we would become better than we are by playing those games anyway (Look at the people on Star Trek, how many fat Federations do you see? Even among the on-board civilians you'd see maybe two, am I right?).

I suppose it all comes down to trusting your control medium. A "standard" controller offers fairly safe options but is far from perfect, the Wii-mote and other motion controls are currently buggy at best. A neural interface might be one solution, but there is still no real way to tell if the actions you "command" will be correctly translated into actions in-game. Ideally motion/body/whatever type of control can help us move past simply pretending to be an athlete/super soldier/ninja master/wizard/whatever, and let us feel like we actually "are" them. In any case, total immersion isn't quite there yet and I'd be interested to hear this same discussion when/if it is finally perfected (in whatever form).

And now for the obligatory gushing: Awesome discussion, guys. I love listening to all three of your opinions, and I'd be interested in seeing discussions between the three of you on other topics. I enjoy watching and reading videos and articles from all three of you and encourage you to keep up the good work. /applause
 

Supp

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Nov 17, 2009
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I loved the way SSBB used the wii. Motion controls for mouse movement only.
 

RagnorakTres

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Feb 10, 2009
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ischmalud said:
@ RagnaorakTres
mate i agree that there are those 2 types of players, probably various shades in between but i disagree with the idea that its related to ur own physical form.
consider this, im a gym monkey and i work a fairly hard physical job but still id agree with yathzee that gaming for me is to relax, if i wanna do sports i do sports i dont turn on my computer or ps3 :p

none the less some valid points there
I think you missed the part where I said "Over-generalization inbound." :D I suppose I should have said that there were two types of people, people who prefer physical stimulation and people who prefer mental stimulation.

It's probably a question of how much stimulation of each type one person receives in a day versus another. I've been cooped up all winter, unable to do my usual physical stuff (sword sparring, mostly) and I still haven't managed to land a job, thus playing the Wii feels good, feels like I'm doing some of the stuff I haven't been able to because it's snowy and nasty out. I'm also getting massive amounts of mental stimulation from debates with my friends, tabletops, role-plays and college. Where you're playing games to come down from doing physical labor, I'm playing games in place of physical labor (unfortunately).
 

Uszi

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Feb 10, 2008
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Tactical Fugitive said:
Cool. You guys should do a video talk show, with callers and all, discussing what's hot in the gaming world.
Yeah, I think it would be better if it were like, a Blog-TV, Skype-call-in type thing, where those guys even took callers, and after the live part is done, put the recording up on the website.

Of course, recording such a thing would be problematic, given that people are in different timezones and what not.

One can dream though.

This was cool, though. Looking forward to more.
 

Flying Dagger

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Apr 14, 2009
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put shamus young in that and you have the ultimate lineup.

And I might even forgive you for dropping Unforgotten realms.

OT: I've never used kinect/move/wiimote(well once but it was mariokart and only for like one race) so can't really add to the debate.
After the ps2, I didn't really feel like buying a ps3, and just upgraded my pc instead.
 

Alluos

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Nov 7, 2010
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Bah, I agree with all of them, both button-based and motion controls have a place in gaming, but a perfect blend WILL be difficult and rare to achieve.

But here's food for thought, if video games really are an artistic medium in the making, then surely it can be subjective too.*

*EDIT: Of course, I mean in both story -and- mechanics/control methods.