Console Gaming
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This sir. You said it much better than I could.Fr said:anc[is]Dear Escapist, what would you consider your best source of positive reinforcement? Because I want you to continue this behavior.
As much as I like James I have to fully agree with Yahtzee. The best moments I've had in gaming were the ones where I forgot that I was actually sitting in a chair with a controller in my hand instead of saving the universe. Engaging the mind and the emotions is so much more important than engaging the body, motion control is worthless if it hinders this instead of helping it.
I agree with MovieBob's point about No More Heroes but think that it's a very specific example that wouldn't work everywhere. No More Heroes makes a point of mocking game conventions so while the payoff is satisfying No More Heroes isn't seeking to be an immersive game so much as it's seeking to be cathartic in its mechanics. If I had to think about which direction to swing my sword in Shadow of the Colossus it would have taken some of the impact out of it by forcing me to focus on the mechanic rather than the emotional significance of the action.
totally agree with yahtzee when he says that it ADDS immersion when you don't have to exert physical energy, and a controller is pretty much the epitome of the perfect tool to do this.
although in theory, the ideal video game controller (petty controversy and reality aside) would be a wireless chip that you put in your brain so your brain can directly tell your character what to do in the video game. that way you can sit there and drool all over yourself as you immerse yourself in the game world. (use an iv and inject yourself with morphine for best results)
although in theory, the ideal video game controller (petty controversy and reality aside) would be a wireless chip that you put in your brain so your brain can directly tell your character what to do in the video game. that way you can sit there and drool all over yourself as you immerse yourself in the game world. (use an iv and inject yourself with morphine for best results)
Motion control is one of the biggest disagreements I have with Yahtzee, Bob came closest to how I feel about it good idea but overused when it is used. Good example is Kingdom Hearts, how many people hated having to go through menu and sub menus during fights, I used almost no magic and items do to this, now imagine kingdom hearts on the Wii, A is attack of course but all other menu options would be posted on the four sides of the screens and flicking toward one would open it's sub menu, so magic flick up, attack spells flick down, fire flick left. I think with a bit more planing motion controls would allow for more options with a controller without adding extra buttons.
Gotta agree with Yahtzee, no better way to achieve immersion than by plugging your brain into the console. Increases your reaction time, and nullifies physical activity. Of course, that brings up the potential problem of people getting so fat that their fingers can't even hit the buttons, which isn't that big a problems right now, since they do need to be able to click the buttons, but it's not like that isn't where we are headed in the long run. Less activity, more automation and more fat.
My only big complaint is that I wish their was more James, although my smaller complaint is I would just like more in general. I hope this is a regular thing and I look forward to seeing it again.
seriously this would be an awesome video feature. I could picture Gram from LLR / ENN as a perfect moderator in the vain of "politically incorrect" type of show.
I have to agree with Yahtzee on the flailing bit. I've been playing Killzone 3 with the Move controller, and I'm loving nearly all of it. The cursor I can move all around the screen is a great asset, and I keep hearing all this Gears 3 news and I'm glancing over at my 360 controller and Dualshock 3 while thinking "How the hell am I going to play a shooter with those things again?" Like MovieBob said, having that cursor there is really nice, not just for menus but for the games as well (now if only Sony would make some kind of Move friendly interface for the PS3; holding down T and using the accelerometers isn't cutting it).
But, there's the one part of playing Killzone 3 with Move that I'm not liking, and that's going for melee attacks. To do this, you have to thrust the Move controller forward. Well, guess what. Moving the entire controller also moves that big glowy red ball at the end of it, which is what the PS Eye is tracking to determine where your aiming cursor is pointing. And now you've moved the ball, and you went from looking at this guy in front of you to looking at the sky while spinning around in place. Well, actually, that only happens if you miss and/or it doesn't register you wanting to do a melee attack. If it connects and you melee the guy, it's fine, because you have this nice little animation of your character jamming his thumbs into your enemy's eyeballs or sticking a knife in his neck during which you have time to reposition your controller to where it was so you don't do the look at the sky whee spinning thing. But if you miss or it just plain didn't register your movements as input at all, you're likely dead because during the time it takes to fix your aim and then find the target again, he's either blasted your face off or thrust his knife into your eyeball.
And every time it succeeds, I don't feel like "yeah, that was so awesome and immersive!" or anything special. But every time it fails, which is often, I'm left thinking "Dammit why did they not put in a melee button?"
Reloading is the same way, you twist the Move controller like a doorknob. The action doesn't make much sense there either, and many times it doesn't work. There actually is a reload button as well though (Square, just like if you were playing with a Dualshock), so that one doesn't bother me. But melee is motion only, and it stinks.
Of course, there is indeed something to be said about the motion action matching what the character is doing too. Random shaking or waggling really is just a different button press, and it makes me wonder why Super Mario Galaxy can't support a GameCube controller. All I'm doing is just waving this controller around instead of pressing B like I would have if this was on the GameCube. But then, there is a game that I always like to point at as something a Wii game should be, The Godfather: Blackhand Edition. I think it actually used motion controls pretty well, with my favorite example being able to go up and choke somebody by holding up the Wiimote and Nunchuck and shaking them violently as if you were actually strangling this dirty bastard who thought it would be a good idea to wear his little green Barzini uniform in my neighborhood.
Anyway, the article itself: very good presentation with the colored boxes. It works really well to remind you said what, as all of the responses are longer than in a typical interviews. I certainly hope we see more of these in the future.
But, there's the one part of playing Killzone 3 with Move that I'm not liking, and that's going for melee attacks. To do this, you have to thrust the Move controller forward. Well, guess what. Moving the entire controller also moves that big glowy red ball at the end of it, which is what the PS Eye is tracking to determine where your aiming cursor is pointing. And now you've moved the ball, and you went from looking at this guy in front of you to looking at the sky while spinning around in place. Well, actually, that only happens if you miss and/or it doesn't register you wanting to do a melee attack. If it connects and you melee the guy, it's fine, because you have this nice little animation of your character jamming his thumbs into your enemy's eyeballs or sticking a knife in his neck during which you have time to reposition your controller to where it was so you don't do the look at the sky whee spinning thing. But if you miss or it just plain didn't register your movements as input at all, you're likely dead because during the time it takes to fix your aim and then find the target again, he's either blasted your face off or thrust his knife into your eyeball.
And every time it succeeds, I don't feel like "yeah, that was so awesome and immersive!" or anything special. But every time it fails, which is often, I'm left thinking "Dammit why did they not put in a melee button?"
Reloading is the same way, you twist the Move controller like a doorknob. The action doesn't make much sense there either, and many times it doesn't work. There actually is a reload button as well though (Square, just like if you were playing with a Dualshock), so that one doesn't bother me. But melee is motion only, and it stinks.
Of course, there is indeed something to be said about the motion action matching what the character is doing too. Random shaking or waggling really is just a different button press, and it makes me wonder why Super Mario Galaxy can't support a GameCube controller. All I'm doing is just waving this controller around instead of pressing B like I would have if this was on the GameCube. But then, there is a game that I always like to point at as something a Wii game should be, The Godfather: Blackhand Edition. I think it actually used motion controls pretty well, with my favorite example being able to go up and choke somebody by holding up the Wiimote and Nunchuck and shaking them violently as if you were actually strangling this dirty bastard who thought it would be a good idea to wear his little green Barzini uniform in my neighborhood.
Anyway, the article itself: very good presentation with the colored boxes. It works really well to remind you said what, as all of the responses are longer than in a typical interviews. I certainly hope we see more of these in the future.
May I also suggest Skype as a possible means for these gents to converse, if the stars (and their disparate schedules) align?
PLEASE make this a regular feature. It was a dream I didn't even knew I had come true. I thought this site had reached your peak when you first gave us Extra Credits and then filled the otherwise dull Tuesday a new weekly Movie Bob vid, but if you make this a feature, I will seriously start a cult in your honor. I'm not just talking as a fanboy here, (which I am) but I honestly do think that discussions like these are important for the industry and I can think of no 3 people better suited for the job.
I agree with Movie Bob about the Wii having some features like the "whack" motion that is extreamly useful and with James when he speaks about games being participatory. An important note to make is that gaming doesn't have to go one way or the other, but it can go both ways. We might have both the neural interface and the holodeck and they'll both be great, but different kind of entertainment.
I agree with Movie Bob about the Wii having some features like the "whack" motion that is extreamly useful and with James when he speaks about games being participatory. An important note to make is that gaming doesn't have to go one way or the other, but it can go both ways. We might have both the neural interface and the holodeck and they'll both be great, but different kind of entertainment.
Now that would be interesting... so long as we can avoid what happened in the Matrix.Yahtzee said:
Captch: Meductic 1,000
Its Meductic, to 1000!!!
I have never commented on the Escapist before, but am a long time voyeur. This article has changed my rule on keeping things to myself. For my two cents: I think this in an enlightening and endlessly intriguing thread with potential to really open up issues in our shared entertainment experience. I trust this will continue and invite further discussion.
Regarding the topic, I feel that Bob is on to something with adding extra "buttons" to our controllers through our frustrated flails. I mean, I hardly expect to get an achievement for throwing my controller at my telly, but being able to shake the controller to activate a hotkey'd spell can only be better than entering a radial HUD like Dragon Age and selecting it, breaking the flow somewhat.
Regarding the topic, I feel that Bob is on to something with adding extra "buttons" to our controllers through our frustrated flails. I mean, I hardly expect to get an achievement for throwing my controller at my telly, but being able to shake the controller to activate a hotkey'd spell can only be better than entering a radial HUD like Dragon Age and selecting it, breaking the flow somewhat.
Definitely make this happen every week, please. This was a great discussion.
On a side note, I never realized that MovieBob knew that much about gaming. I know that he has his own blog and such, but I saw one episode of it and figured that he had no clue what he was talking about (it was something about why 3D gaming will never trump 2D gaming, and it seemed mostly silly to me). That must have just been one fluke; he definitely makes some good points here.
On a side note, I never realized that MovieBob knew that much about gaming. I know that he has his own blog and such, but I saw one episode of it and figured that he had no clue what he was talking about (it was something about why 3D gaming will never trump 2D gaming, and it seemed mostly silly to me). That must have just been one fluke; he definitely makes some good points here.
