Controversial Tropes vs. Women in Video Games Series Comes to an End

Elijin

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I watched her first two videos. While the discussion she was trying to have had huge merit, and deserved the attention, her examples could come across as dishonest. So I stopped watching them.

That said, the reactions didn't stop at reasonable rebuttals. People were vile and nasty to her, in ways which always cross the line, not just 'cause its a girl'. If people are upset at the narrative that followed, blaming her for poking the hornets nest is absurd. Maybe we should collectively try to stop being hornets?
 

maninahat

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I'll give it a watch. I was wondering when she would be dialling these things down.

A lot of people have argued that if there wasn't such a shit storm around her videos, she would have faded into obscurity. I argue the Lewis Law in that its these shit storms that demonstrate their relevance in the first place. She wouldn't feel the need to provide feminist analysis of games if the hobby didn't have some really weird hang ups about women, nor had a community full of people who get disproportionately upset when these hang ups are pointed out (as they're the people who really should be listening to what she says).

Anita has produced a fairly elementary level series on what people within the hobby have been pointing out for years ("Princess Peach being kidnapped again?", "Bikini armour?", "another dead wife revenge story?" etc). Because she is not a stereotypical gamer and looks like a lady talkabouter though, people get mad when it comes from her.
 
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infohippie said:
Wintermute said:
I'm glad this is finally over. I'm tired of this new trend where every game protagonist is a woman and it's all about women. Now that this series is done, things will go back to normal. I miss manly games where I do manly things. I miss the straight white guy protagonists.
Hey, more female protagonists are a good thing. More nicely shaped butts to watch as you game.
So we have Anita to thank for Nier: Automata? Delicious irony if true.
 

springheeljack

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I've never seen one of her videos I tried to once but I found her droning voice to be so dull that I had no wish to ever watch one of her videos. That's why it boggles my mind that people will hate watch her videos and act like she's the goddamn antichrist. She deserved none of the abuse or death threats that were handed her way. She's just a boring woman making boring videos on a boring subject. The ugliness of so many gamers is fucking gross dude.
 

Jamcie Kerbizz

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maninahat said:
I'll give it a watch. I was wondering when she would be dialling these things down.

A lot of people have argued that if there wasn't such a shit storm around her videos, she would have faded into obscurity. I argue the Lewis Law in that its these shit storms that demonstrate their relevance in the first place.
You can't use fallacy as an argument in dicussion, so called Lewis Law is an example of poorly thought out circular logic,thus irrelevant in determining something being 0/1.
 

Wrex Brogan

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It's always fascinated me at how much vitriol people still have over a series that is, quite frankly, unimaginably basic and inoffensive. Like, shit guys, c'mon, there's far better stuff out there to get incensed about, why you still so mad over this? Do you have nothing better to do? Just... so weird.

Ah well, my money says this thread still hits 120 posts. And then 3 months down the line someone'll make a thread on whatever she's doing next and we can play the whole song and dance all over again.

Phasmal said:
Y'know I came in here to make a joke about us all now collectively being able to move on but then I read the comments and jeezy chreezy.

I guess she sure did highlight for me at least the fact that this culture is even more of a dumpster fire than I thought it was.
I like playing games with people, but I think I'm kinda done with "gamers". They have a little bit too much of The Worst about them recently.

I think I'm getting too old. :p
I remember a time when I was keen and excited to be a part of the gaming community.

...I think the SNES had just come out at the time. Ah, the joys of being under 10 and having no internet access...
 

FalloutJack

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I'm sorry, this was a thing? I tuned out like it was Gamergate again, because none of it mattered. Everybody else got into big discussions...and I played video games.

I win.
 

loa

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Hawki said:
I've never got the hatred for Sarkeesian. If she says things that you disagree with, presenting arguments that you find disingenuous...well, that's fine. But how does that equate to the vitriol and harassment she's experienced?
She runs on pity, needs the victimhood.
How can anyone not notice at this point?
She's not there to solve problems, she's there to push buttons.
 

Hawki

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loa said:
She runs on pity, needs the victimhood.
How can anyone not notice at this point?
She's not there to solve problems, she's there to push buttons.
All I see is someone applying feminist-themed critique to games. If that "pushes buttons," then some people need to take a long, hard look at themselves.
 

Basement Cat

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FalloutJack said:
I'm sorry, this was a thing? I tuned out like it was Gamergate again, because none of it mattered. Everybody else got into big discussions...and I played video games.

I win.
You are my hero, Jack. :)
 

loa

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Hawki said:
loa said:
She runs on pity, needs the victimhood.
How can anyone not notice at this point?
She's not there to solve problems, she's there to push buttons.
All I see is someone applying feminist-themed critique to games. If that "pushes buttons," then some people need to take a long, hard look at themselves.
Have you missed the part where she calls elizabeth from bioshock infinite a "sexualized slotmachine" because she tosses coins at the player?
How much more blatant and non-sensical does it have to become for you to get the memo?
It's a bunch of buzzwords.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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News about actual video games come out and there's barely two pages of comments in days, unless it's some highly anticipated game like TES or Zelda etc. Yet we're already at page 3 discussing this hack and scam artist. And it's not like it's the first or 101st time. You want to know what's wrong with gaming culture? It's the fact that gamers care a lot more about meaningless drivel like this series of videos than they care about actual game news. Every time there's some shitty SJW video it gets more attention than gaming stuff that matters.
 

srpilha

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I read the first 40-ish replies to this thread this morning and then left for work feeling that maybe I should continue to not visit these forums because really.

Came back because I thought I could post something useful and I'm quite glad to see some others already did. Well, a couple more than the one or two up to that point. Phew. Cheers Smithnikov, Hawki, Darth Rosenberg and Gethsemani.

So let me be one more to wonder at all the shit Anita Sarkeesian has received. What's the bottom line, here? Why are people saying she shouldn't make or have made those videos? The only logical possibilites I could come up with are:
. EITHER they affirm that there is in fact _no_ sexism in videogames (nor in pop culture, media or in society in general);
. OR they affirm that there _is_ sexism in videogames, BUT that it should not be discussed at all ever, for reasons that have remained unclear at best;
. OR they affirm that there _is_ sexism in videogames, AND that it _should_ be discussed, BUT CERTAINLY NOT LIKE THAT, and then fail to provide any solid justification for this or any concrete alternative that would show how to do it properly.

So yeah. It's kiiiiinda hard to take that side against her.

Oh, and for those mentioning the cordial, well-thought and rational responses to her videos: I'm sure they exist (although I haven't seen one - but that's probably on me), and they definitely _should_ exist. But the sheer quantity of violence she has received reaches a point where it becomes irrelevant whether those attacking her are a majority or a minority: they become, in actual objective fact, a very real and _significant_ problem.
 

Hawki

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loa said:
Have you missed the part where she calls elizabeth from bioshock infinite a "sexualized slotmachine" because she tosses coins at the player?
How much more blatant and non-sensical does it have to become for you to get the memo?
It's a bunch of buzzwords.
"Buzzwords" and "non-sensical" claims are things I, and others, come across every day. Claims that, like the slot machine idea, I disagree with.

Doesn't mean I have to act like an abusive lunatic as a result.
 

the December King

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...I guess I was never really interested in what she had to say. I watched a few episodes near the beginning (or I think I did- did she do a series just prior to this?), and then tuned out.
 

Ogoid

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A proud ending to gaming's own version of a landmark on the history of the comic book medium [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_of_the_Innocent], with a whooping 5 hours' worth of content over 5 years.

Well done.
 

Jamcie Kerbizz

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Adam Jensen said:
News about actual video games come out and there's barely two pages of comments in days, unless it's some highly anticipated game like TES or Zelda etc. Yet we're already at page 3 discussing this hack and scam artist. And it's not like it's the first or 101st time. You want to know what's wrong with gaming culture? It's the fact that gamers care a lot more about meaningless drivel like this series of videos than they care about actual game news. Every time there's some shitty SJW video it gets more attention than gaming stuff that matters.
Dead on true.
Although there isn't easy way out of it. It's more less hostage situation. Until con-artists and social activists switch out to better source of income and controversy the whole situation is likely to be perpetuated. Until whole community gets savy about these actions and speak pretty much in one voice to reject them (stop falling for pretense and emotions and follows cold logic) or gaming becomes fringe again to the point of not providing sufficient sustenance for such parasitic action.

Come to think of it it does look a lot like parasite-host dillema. Probably it is easier to just starve out and force parasite to switch to more promising host. But lets be frank, long term, it's better to destroy parasite lest you risk it coming back.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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srpilha said:
I read the first 40-ish replies to this thread this morning and then left for work feeling that maybe I should continue to not visit these forums because really.

Came back because I thought I could post something useful and I'm quite glad to see some others already did. Well, a couple more than the one or two up to that point. Phew. Cheers Smithnikov, Hawki, Darth Rosenberg and Gethsemani.

So let me be one more to wonder at all the shit Anita Sarkeesian has received. What's the bottom line, here? Why are people saying she shouldn't make or have made those videos? The only logical possibilites I could come up with are:
. EITHER they affirm that there is in fact _no_ sexism in videogames (nor in pop culture, media or in society in general);
. OR they affirm that there _is_ sexism in videogames, BUT that it should not be discussed at all ever, for reasons that have remained unclear at best;
. OR they affirm that there _is_ sexism in videogames, AND that it _should_ be discussed, BUT CERTAINLY NOT LIKE THAT, and then fail to provide any solid justification for this or any concrete alternative that would show how to do it properly.

So yeah. It's kiiiiinda hard to take that side against her.

Oh, and for those mentioning the cordial, well-thought and rational responses to her videos: I'm sure they exist (although I haven't seen one - but that's probably on me), and they definitely _should_ exist. But the sheer quantity of violence she has received reaches a point where it becomes irrelevant whether those attacking her are a majority or a minority: they become, in actual objective fact, a very real and _significant_ problem.
I don't see how this is more useful than other responses here, but I guess that depends on what use one is going for.


In any case, the videos achieve none of the things you list, or any other such things. I don't think there's any reason she shouldn't have made them though because fundamentally people are free to make any videos they like and I believe in personal liberty. When I see her mention logical fallacies or just flat out wrong facts I will treat it as it deserves, it's not something uniquely applied here.

Basically, she gets to make idiotic points, and we get to call them idiotic. It's how freedom works. As for the needlessly rude words she has received, obviously that sucks and it doesn't absolve her of her misdeeds. I am a gamer before being a social rights activist so people making stuff up or presenting lies as facts for the sake of their personal gain at the cost of gaming's image is not going to be accepted without resistance.
Jamcie Kerbizz said:
Adam Jensen said:
News about actual video games come out and there's barely two pages of comments in days, unless it's some highly anticipated game like TES or Zelda etc. Yet we're already at page 3 discussing this hack and scam artist. And it's not like it's the first or 101st time. You want to know what's wrong with gaming culture? It's the fact that gamers care a lot more about meaningless drivel like this series of videos than they care about actual game news. Every time there's some shitty SJW video it gets more attention than gaming stuff that matters.
Dead on true.
Although there isn't easy way out of it. It's more less hostage situation. Until con-artists and social activists switch out to better source of income and controversy the whole situation is likely to be perpetuated. Until whole community gets savy about these actions and speak pretty much in one voice to reject them (stop falling for pretense and emotions and follows cold logic) or gaming becomes fringe again to the point of not providing sufficient sustenance for such parasitic action.

Come to think of it it does look a lot like parasite-host dillema. Probably it is easier to just starve out and force parasite to switch to more promising host. But lets be frank, long term, it's better to destroy parasite lest you risk it coming back.

I think this is because there's a lot of niches so everyone is only gonna be excited for some things and you won't have this many people care for smaller releases. This topic however affects literally everyone so it's equivalent to a game everyone is a fan of being discussed. Only less fun and more existential in nature.
 

Bedinsis

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Regarding the actual episode: same reaction from me as always. Shallow reading, bringing to light rather obvious points. I also thought the amount of examples provided was rather small. I also was surprised that she called the Bioshock Infinite storyline garbage, but then again it put the actions of racially disadvantaged rebels on similar footing as those of the people imposing a race-based society. Honestly, the article "The dadification of videogames" gave much more insight, in particular since she kept to rather recent examples.

altnameJag said:
Well, hopefully her next project involves a less reactionary fan base. Seriously, as far as gaming blasphemy goes, the fucking Game Theory guys are an order of magnitude worse.
Really? What have they done that was blasphemous in this context?

ToastyMozart said:
Wow, she actually managed to finish it (4 years and extra funding drives later, but still)
This is the first I've heard of this. What extra funding drives?

Silentpony said:
Oh good, the scam artist is finally shutting up.
This is most certainly not the first time I've heard this. How is she a scam artist?