Controversial Tropes vs. Women in Video Games Series Comes to an End

WeepingAngels

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Ninjamurai said:
WeepingAngels said:
altnameJag said:
Sounds like something that could be interesting to analyze. Maybe launch a different "Tropes vs Men" kickstarter. I'd fund something like that as long as it wasn't going to be a series of videos whining about feminism.
...or you could just give an opinion about it here.
They just did. "Sounds interesting..." and "I'd fund..." mean that they are positive & open about the idea that men don't have it quite as nice as a Feminist Frequency video might make you think.

I would tend to agree with this line of thinking, so long as it doesn't just become a pointless whine-fest like altnameJag said. Overall though I feel it's somewhat pointless, but only because of how I felt about Anita's video series to begin with; They're just video games, pixels on the screen made by other people. If we treat a handful of video-games like they are somehow single-handedly causing all sex/race/violence/etc. issues in the world... well, that would be dumb.
Saying it's worth analyzing isn't giving an opinion.

It would be pointless and that's why we don't need a video series on the subject, it's fine to give an opinion right here on this board and then move on.
 

Nazulu

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I don't get those of you wondering why she was attacked, it's like you're all new to the internet. Do you really think it's just Anita who was attacked? Anyone who goes into politics cops threats and vile shit, and Anita was literally trying to poke the hive so it's her own fault.

Also Anita did more than just talk about games, she was spreading Marxism everywhere she could, and it really shows in some places, and even the media started spreading bigotry. Don't forgot she was in time magazines top 100 influential people, and so it's why the anti-SJW's haven't gone away yet. I've been trying to ignore it all for awhile now though so I don't know if it has changed much, but I doubt it has.

 

AzrealMaximillion

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American Tanker said:
Oh, good, it's finally over.

Now, the question is: When will series debunking her bullshit claims become mainstream, instead of her crap?
Well thunderf00t and Sargon did do responses earlier on that got many more views than most of the FemFreq episodes. Frankly a lot of people did. FemFreq as a series hasn't really been mainstream popular after the first insanely long break she took from making like... 3 episodes.
 

Steven Bogos

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AzrealMaximillion said:
American Tanker said:
Oh, good, it's finally over.

Now, the question is: When will series debunking her bullshit claims become mainstream, instead of her crap?
Well thunderf00t and Sargon did do responses earlier on that got many more views than most of the FemFreq episodes. Frankly a lot of people did. FemFreq as a series hasn't really been mainstream popular after the first insanely long break she took from making like... 3 episodes.
They should have called it "Feminist INFrequently" am i rite?
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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Steven Bogos said:
AzrealMaximillion said:
American Tanker said:
Oh, good, it's finally over.

Now, the question is: When will series debunking her bullshit claims become mainstream, instead of her crap?
Well thunderf00t and Sargon did do responses earlier on that got many more views than most of the FemFreq episodes. Frankly a lot of people did. FemFreq as a series hasn't really been mainstream popular after the first insanely long break she took from making like... 3 episodes.
They should have called it "Feminist INFrequently" am i rite?
I expect them to use "feminist reeeequency" or something to that effect.
 

IceForce

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Nazulu said:
I don't get those of you wondering why she was attacked, it's like you're all new to the internet. Do you really think it's just Anita who was attacked? Anyone who goes into politics cops threats and vile shit, and Anita was literally trying to poke the hive so it's her own fault.
This, incidentally, is a very good example of victim-blaming.
 

Nazulu

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IceForce said:
Nazulu said:
I don't get those of you wondering why she was attacked, it's like you're all new to the internet. Do you really think it's just Anita who was attacked? Anyone who goes into politics cops threats and vile shit, and Anita was literally trying to poke the hive so it's her own fault.
This, incidentally, is a very good example of victim-blaming.
And that's a very poor example of making a point.

Not once do I say she or anyone deserves to be attacked. It's common sense that if you go around throwing up bigotry then you're going to piss people off.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Nazulu said:
I don't get those of you wondering why she was attacked, it's like you're all new to the internet. Do you really think it's just Anita who was attacked? Anyone who goes into politics cops threats and vile shit, and Anita was literally trying to poke the hive so it's her own fault.
Do explain how having your own youtube channel and website and asking for 5,000 USD on kickstarter to do a bunch of videos examining video games from an ideological viewpoint constitutes poking the hornets nest.

Nazulu said:
Also Anita did more than just talk about games, she was spreading Marxism everywhere she could, and it really shows in some places, and even the media started spreading bigotry.
Please, tell me more about how Sarkeesian was spreading communism and/or the political theories of Carl Marx.
 

Tsun Tzu

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It's neat, because after 5 years of this shit, you can get a feel for, if not out right guess, what certain people are going to say about this subject just by seeing their avatar/user name.

Very few surprises here.

Come on, guys.

Why aren't you tired of this song and dance yet?
 

Nazulu

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Gethsemani said:
Nazulu said:
I don't get those of you wondering why she was attacked, it's like you're all new to the internet. Do you really think it's just Anita who was attacked? Anyone who goes into politics cops threats and vile shit, and Anita was literally trying to poke the hive so it's her own fault.
Do explain how having your own youtube channel and website and asking for 5,000 USD on kickstarter to do a bunch of videos examining video games from an ideological viewpoint constitutes poking the hornets nest.
You know, I read someones full post before making comments like this. Watch the video's next time.

Nazulu said:
Also Anita did more than just talk about games, she was spreading Marxism everywhere she could, and it really shows in some places, and even the media started spreading bigotry.
Please, tell me more about how Sarkeesian was spreading communism and/or the political theories of Carl Marx.
Same as the first.
 

totheendofsin

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Jul 31, 2009
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StatusNil said:
totheendofsin said:
I would like to congratulate all the people who had needlessly hostile reactions to her

because you guys were the ones who fueled her relevance
Nope, her "relevance" is due to those highly Professional "GameJournos", who shilled the hell out of this charlatan from the very beginning. Can't resist a damsel in distress, those boys. Especially one ghostwritten by an aspirational figure like Johnny Full, the Pop Culture Dick himself.

It's just sad.
except for the part where all the articles written about her when her kickstarter launched were primarily about the needlessly hostile response to her
 

Callate

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Darth Rosenberg said:
Callate said:
She exemplifies the kind of attitude that not only makes it more difficult for people to find common cause and common ground, but weakens feminism as a whole, presenting it as an unchallengable monolith that has all the answers and is the only enlightened way to look at anything.
Is that really an issue with her? Or the nomarks who somehow see any and all individuals as sole mouthpieces of incredibly complex and nuanced ideological perspectives?
Yes, that's really an issue with her. And an issue with those who cite her as an expert in feminist theory and the media, passing on her work as authority without giving it significant scrutiny. And possibly with a willingness to presume that one dogma gets to be a series of "sole mouthpieces" that never reflect poorly on the identity of the whole, and the other can be characterized as homogeneous "nomarks".

So much opposition to feminism seems to be built off the back of individual statements from individual people; 'X said Y, so all of 'em think it! Man the barricades!!!'. That isn't usually the person speaking who's really at fault, is it.
It isn't just by individual statements that a cause goes down, but by an unwillingness for anyone within that camp to challenge or criticize statements; a "circling of the wagons" to defend statements and individuals who shouldn't be defended, simply because they're allowed to remain part of the group identity; and a prevailing attitude that anyone who would dare challenge someone within that identity from without or within is the enemy.

The worst representative of a cause can do every bit as much damage to their faction as the best representative of an opposing cause. You want to believe that only factors into the attitudes of extremists who are predisposed to seek out fault to justify their views, but that isn't the case. Those extremists may magnify the focus on the worst of what they oppose, but everyone who fails to provide a firm counter-example cannot help but share the fault- and the shadow falls over the whole when anyone not firmly in a camp observes.

The channel and Sarkeesian weren't exactly paragons of--- well, anything, be it feminism or game critique. But I don't think they ever needed to be. They were/are, after all, simply part of a broader attitude of societal progression. If all they did was kick a hornet's nest, then that's productive in and of itself.
"Movement" is not the same thing as "progression". And kicking a hornet's nest has never resulted in anything but a bunch of stinging. Fierce and violent arguing about trivial matters, a deeper divide between people who are going to suffer for furthering an inability to work together, a deeper and more passionate sense that facts are irrelevant before the steamroller of the all-powerful narrative. This is the legacy of demagogues- whether they channel millions of votes or just a six-figure sum on Kickstarter.

Because of Sarkeesian- and people like her- there is less conversation, and more screaming. From both sides. That's the opposite of progress. When the smug satisfaction of watching the demonized "other side" foaming at the mouth fades, what's left is just damage.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Nazulu said:
Do explain how having your own youtube channel and website and asking for 5,000 USD on kickstarter to do a bunch of videos examining video games from an ideological viewpoint constitutes poking the hornets nest.
You know, I read someones full post before making comments like this. Watch the video's next time.[/quote]

I did read your whole post, but I am not wasting my time with hateboner videos on Youtube. So explain to me why I should take your argument seriously. "Go read the sources" (or "go watch this video") is not an argument.

Nazulu said:
Please, tell me more about how Sarkeesian was spreading communism and/or the political theories of Carl Marx.
Same as the first.
Same as above. I am trying to have a discussion with you, not watch youtube videos.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Callate said:
It isn't just by individual statements that a cause goes down, but by an unwillingness for anyone within that camp to challenge or criticize statements; a "circling of the wagons" to defend statements and individuals who shouldn't be defended, simply because they're allowed to remain part of the group identity; and a prevailing attitude that anyone who would dare challenge someone within that identity from without or within is the enemy.
You know, I find this particular critique of feminism patently hilarious. Feminism is nothing if not a collection of closely aligned ideologies and philosophical approaches that tends to clash fiercely with each other. Remember the Sex Wars of the 80's? Feminism, quite literally, tore itself in two over issues related to sex, pornography and depictions of female nudity. It was a schism so great that its' repercussions are felt even today and spawned two polar opposite form of feminism, Sex Negative and Sex Positive.

Contemporary to the Sex Wars we have something that tanks this critique of feminism. Can you guess what it is? Third Wave Feminism. The "wave" of feminism that got started when minorities within feminism felt that the second wave was too obsessed with the situation of white, middle class women in the US. Third Wave Feminism arose from the harsh criticism of feminism as reserved only for the white middle class and as a distinct wave it is all about expanding the umbrella term of feminism to include all possible experiences of being a woman and/or suffering from patriarchy.

Feminism is definitely not a "circle the wagons"-type of movement. Contemporary feminism is diverse and the sub-factions are extremely critical of one another. Just look at sex negative versus sex positive or sex essentialists versus gender constructionists, to get an idea of how rabid and cutthroat feminists can become when engaging with one another.

Let's get this straight: As far as feminism goes, Sarkeesian is very, very cautious and bland. I'd argue that De Beauvoir is much more controversial then Sarkeesian is and her books are considered basic reading for feminism. When you get to writers like Dworkin, Rubin or Butler (who is quite separate from the other two, mind you) you'd be forgiven for thinking that Sarkeesian is utterly harmless in the wider circles of feminism.

And that's really my misgiving about this entire thing; that Sarkeesian is decidedly small fry in terms of feminist thought or impact, nothing she says is very controversial or hateful. Yet she has a hatedom in gaming that's far out of proportion, composed of people who think's she's the personification of raging, hateful feminism. Whoever is making that claim has absolutely no idea about the wider field of feminism, because if they did they'd see just how harmless Sarkeesian is. They'd also see that the reason so few feminists are vocally opposed to Sarkeesian is because she's not saying anything interesting, she's merely introducing basic gender studies concepts to a larger audience within the framework of critiquing video games.
 

Phasmal

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Honestly it's been years and the level of hate is still quite surprising to me.

I mean, what does being hateful about this get anyone? Does it achieve anything? Do people enjoy being hateful about something that doesn't affect them at all?

It certainly doesn't affect, oh, I don't know- video games as I've been playing them pretty consistently over the years and as of yet no straw feminist has come to take them away from me.


I would suggest that people chill.
 

Nazulu

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Gethsemani said:
Nazulu said:
You know, I read someones full post before making comments like this. Watch the video's next time.
I did read your whole post, but I am not wasting my time with hateboner videos on Youtube. So explain to me why I should take your argument seriously. "Go read the sources" (or "go watch this video") is not an argument.
Don't waste me time. If you can't even be bothered to watch the videos then I can't take you seriously.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Nazulu said:
Don't waste me time. If you can't even be bothered to watch the videos then I can't take you seriously.
You mean the videos where one literally has a shopped image of Sarkeesian with a joint in her mouth, "cool" glasses on and a pair of Dorito earrings and is made by Sargon of Akkad, one of the worst youtubers around? I am not intending to waste your time, but don't insult my intellect by demanding I watch hate videos that has been in circulation the past 2 years (or so), when you could quickly summarize their points so that we could have a discussion about the argument you put forth.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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Wrex Brogan said:
Ah well, my money says this thread still hits 120 posts. And then 3 months down the line someone'll make a thread on whatever she's doing next and we can play the whole song and dance all over again.
Let's not pretend that wasn't the reason for the article in the first place. It's rather sad really.
 

MHR

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Of course it ends. Her base viewers care more about hating the status-quo than videogames.

I think that's the part that rips me the most. It talks down to the feminist audience -- that generally only has an entry-level understanding of video games in the first place -- with dismissive logic and misinformation, the same way the D.A.R.E anti-drug program does to kids in schools.

You could get the same results just by repeating "drugs are bad" and "the patriarchy is bad" respectively without wasting everyone's time.
 
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Phasmal said:
It certainly doesn't affect, oh, I don't know- video games as I've been playing them pretty consistently over the years and as of yet no straw feminist has come to take them away from me.
Oh, no, no, no. The feminists aren't going to physically take our games, no. They're going to take something much more important. Battlefield 1, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Recore, Dishonored 2, Neir, Assassin's Creed Syndicate, among other titles, and the future titles, TLOU 2 and Uncharted: The Lost Legacy all have something in common. They all have female protagonists. Some only have female protagonists. This is the effect of the evil feminist cabal! They're taking away our grizzly white males! Oh, whatever shall we do without them!? Beware the evil feminist cabal!

Just the idea of making a woman playable is liable to get under someone's skin. I seem to remember B-Cell making a thread about Emily being playable. It seemed to really bother him.
Dreiko said:
Try Drakengard 3, about as close as we'd get to a game like Scalebound. (also the drakengard universe spawned Nier, so you know you're in for some weird and compelling story)
Sadly, I no longer own a PS3. I guess I just gotta hope Scalebound gets resurrected in some way.
BiH-Kira said:
If we're talking about asses, no ass in the video game industry can come even close to Snake's ass. That thing is perfection in a digital form.



EDIT: Dunno why it didn't quote the post when I first posted this.
I'll take your snake...