Convince Me That I'm Wrong About RPGs

[guntotingtomcat]

If your winning the game, your friends are probably just annoyed that they put so much effort in to customization and a noob breaks the game by playing sensibly.

It's the story that's meant to matter. The combat is just something to get through (although it shouldn't feel that way; not a massive fan of the genre myself).

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

If what you're worrying about is getting character builds wrong in RPGs and then that spilling over into other genres then do what I do and stop caring what's right or wrong. Certain character builds are going to make things difficult, but they'll also make things easy.

Those number crunchers fail to include your skill and what you enjoy using. If they say that an unarmed weapon is the best yet you can't hit a super mutant with a super sledge then you aren't going to pick that. A lot of people who play MMORPGs forget that games are for fun and end up trying to beat everyone else's class.

Seriously, if you like your character build then keep it. If you get stuck then start over. I had 3 character builds in FO2 before I even looked like getting out of the temple of trials. Even after that I started over again and again because I was getting stuck. Morrowind was no different either, a few character builds to get going and I'm off. Just play for enjoyment and you will get to the end.

 

[kingcom]

See I'm one of these crazy people who thinks RPGs should be about roleplaying. You know, you choosing a role and playing it, using the skills and specializations (or generalisations for that matter) based upon what you think is suitable for your character. A lot of RPGs don't give you that option but they exist. I say it to most things when peopel ask about cRPGs so I'll say it again, Baldur's Gate.

 

[starwarsgeek]

Min/maxers can be annoying. Try to ignore them, and don't seek out their advice unless you are having a lot of trouble with a game.

Take Pokemon for example. In the competive scene, you've got tiers, and certain ways to raise your pokemon. They limit your options, but you'll be torn apart if you don't go along with it.

However, any of the many, many, MANY combinations of pokemon (species, type, gender, attacks, and stats) can work for the single player, and--most of the time--battling friends socially. You can play how you want to play...when I was six I beat Blue version using only my starter.

Unless it's online or incredibly difficult, you won't need a guide for how to raise your character(s).

 

[bushwhacker2k]

Well, first of all not all RPGs' worth can be measured to a skill tree or stat build, some don't even use stats or skill trees.

Second, I like skill trees because it adds a lot of variety and customization, for interesting characters but it sounds like you're dealing with a lot of unbalanced or just poorly made ones. If done correctly (Deus Ex ) then you can enjoy the game even if you don't have the perfect build. If a game requires you to have a very specific character build then it's probably unbalanced.

 

[mireko]

If you'd called the thread "Convince me that I'm wrong about MMORPGs", then it would actually make sense.

Most RPGs don't have this problem.

 

[StBishop]

You sound like me after my friend pointed out that my Dragonage character was the worst he'd ever seen due to my hatred of planning anything and my theory that the more passive abilities i have the better... I stand by my shitty character to this day and so should you good sir!

I also refused to change my party's armour as it would destroy their individuality, damn the armour bonuses to hell!

You're doing it right.

Max out passive bonuses, max out con, get enough Stamina/Mana (Willpower) to have your sustained abilities going and just auto attack.

I also kept Morrigan in her outfit, had Sten use his sword until the end, had Alistair wearing Cailan's armour and shield and Maric's sword, and I used the Aeducan family Shield through until the end of awakening (played noble dwarf).

OP there's nothing wrong with how you're playing. Honestly, I always tell my mate their builds suck, but it doesn't matter, because they like playing differently to me. My build sucked epic balls in Oblivion, I got one hit by a murder fish (or what ever those things are called) at lvl 11. But don't worry about shit like that, find work arounds and enjoy the story. Some RPG's will be hard (I found Oblivion hard due to the excessive level scaling) and others you'll find easy (people whinge about DA:O being hard, but my first play through was on hard mode and I thought it was pretty balanced, some bosses were really easy.)

The thing is, you're over thinking. There is a "Perfect" min/max build, there's no denying that, but you don't have to play to min/max. I sometimes get close to min/max perfection in D&D and I still don't have the most fun out of everyone there, because I stress too much about mistakes. What you need to do is play, how you want to, and ignore all the bullshit, and enjoy the game.

Also,Pokemon isn't simple any more. It's way complex.

 

[Cecilthedarkknight_234]

try playing disgea if you want to complain about character building/leveling. The max level in that game is 9999 so in terms it's over 9000. I will say one thing to each his/her own if you don't like doing stat building in the games then don't play them It's as simple as that This why I gave up on online rpgs along time ago.

 

[Grigori361]

snip

Not your personal army, councilor or anything else thanks.

 

[theheroofaction]

Here's a tips for you to enjoy you RPG: stay away from the "tactics" section of the forums. You'll just run into people who want everybody to conform to "the ultimate build" and you don't want to listen to that


Oh and the "ultimate builds" usually just suck for everyone but their designers

Don't let anyone tell you how to have fun

 

[StBishop]

Sounds more like the people that you have problems with. I've been playing rpgs and (usually) playing them wrong for a long time, and just like you, I've gotten along fine in them. There are just people who don't like playing with faulty characters, but that's part of an RPG's appeal to me. If I have a perfect character, then there won't be enough challenge to keep me interested. It makes more sense to do it my own flawed way.

Yeah, I'm not sure if my problem is with the games themselves, or with the people I'm around making me feel like it's a problem with the game. But so many people can't be wrong, right? I mean, I understand that doing things like only raising attack is a bad idea, and everyone should know that. But when an entire IRC channel is convincing me to restart a game because I put things up in a balanced way, I can't help ut feel like I'm seriously making a mistake.

I have this argument with my girlfriend about Final Fantasy, she's been playing FF games since 7 and my first game was 10, after 10-2 was already out.

I tell her she's wasting her time by levelling everyone, evenly, she should make the main character lvl 99 ASAP and level a couple others about the same rate as each other. But she won't do it.

It's just one of those things. Neither of us is wrong, but we both have different play styles so it loooks wrong to us.
Incidentally I was the shit that told her she was wrong until she stopped playing when I was home. I now STFU when she's playing games.

Also, it seems to me you've come here because you like these games, you know that, but you feel that all these people bringing you down, telling you that you're doing it wrong means you shouldn't play. Seems like you just want confirmation either way as to whether to give up or slug on through the crap you get from mates.

I say slug through it.

Tell them to STFU or GTFO. I have had to tell mate the same thing at times, they usually don't leave.

 

[Chibz]

I know a LOT of you are going to abhor me for saying this, but I feel I need to say it.

So, I was talking to some people about Dungeon Fighter Online, an MMORPG, and we were on the subject of Skill builds. Now, I'm not an expert at this game, and I simply asked what skills were good to get for one of the game's classes. I was directed to a "Skill build simulator", that crunches exact numbers for every level of every skill in the game! Using this, I discovered that my build was "terrible", yet I've been getting by pretty well with it.

Apparently, you're NOT supposed to base your stats and skills on what you use often and what you don't! No, every single aspect of customization this game comes down to whether the simulator likes it or not. This got me thinking about other RPGs I've played. In every single one of them, somebody's complained that I was doing things completely wrong. I've been forced by others to start over, no matter how well I play, even if it's a single-player game! I then began to ask myself questions: Why is it that, if I don't do everything PERFECT, I've screwed up? How can so many people (every RPG fan I've ever met) care so much about what a computer or walkthrough says? Why does everybody else get all of this Skill and Stat and Equipment stuff, yet I always "ruin" my characters completely? And most importantly: How many RPGs have REAL customization? Do RPGs really have billions of customization options? Or do they have three or four "options", and a billion fuckups?

This has turned me off from the entire RPG genre. And, in case you haven't noticed, a LOT of games these days have Stats and Skills and all that jazz. I don't want to go the rest of my life unable to enjoy these games. So please, Escapist. Convince me that I'm horribly, horribly wrong.

EDIT: It's not just people I play with that are unimpressed with me. I've found "Easy" games seriously hard, and I'm positive some of it is actually because of my decisions. Maybe I just think differently from everyone else, but a stat build in a game that I thought was pretty solid has, more than once, made it a LOT harder. It can't be ALL others' fault. I'm seriously bad when it comes to RPG elements, even in simple games like Pokemon.

In all fairness, these aren't really "good" examples of the RPG genre. The RPG genre never transferred well over to electronic gaming. It's too restrictive, far too limited. With too few real roleplaying opportunities.

If you want to try a "real RPG" talk to me about D&D sometime. Once you break the proverbial chains of playing on computer, you feel so free...

 

[Jennacide]

>RPG negativity thread
>sees example as Dungeon Fighter Online
=|

Where to begin?
1) Most RPGs are not like that. And it's really only MMOs where the minmaxing being the only option really happens. Goes on in every MMO. But I've yet to see an offline RPG where this is a huge problem, the only thing close would be Titan Quest. Where you can still beat the game with whatever you want, but it will start to get brutally hard if you just take skills on a whim. (But there are skill resets for a reason)
2) Play any of a myriad of modern RPGs. Fallout 3 and NV don't care how you play, there is no perfect build, just what you enjoy. Persona 3/4 have no perfect team setup or Persona combos. In almost every FF there isn't a perfect team.(10 being a major exception, as over half the members became utter trash compared to Tidus/Wakka/Rikku)
3) There are so many variants in the RPG category, first find one you do like.
Tactically minded? Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age: Origins, Vampire the Masquerade
Visceral skill based combat? Risen, Demon's Souls, ME2 (depending on your class. Soldier = faceroller)
More old school? Shin Megami Tensei series, Dragon Quest 9

You can't take one game and judge a genre. Especially not an MMO, let alone a fucking Korean MMO.

 

[joshthor]

In my opinion, it really depends on the game. for instance, i think guild wars is a FANTASTIC example of how to make a game customizable. there isnt any one build that will be good at every situation, and there are multiple builds for every class for any givin situation you need to handle. there is no "right" or "wrong" way to do it. there are skills that mesh well together, and skills that clash. games like WoW are all about stat building and using skills in the right order at the right time. there is little strategy in a rpg like wow.

in traditional rpgs i perfer games the way bioware does it. i like my rpgs to focus my role of molding the story of my character. i dont need to spend hours calculating what the best stat is for what im doing. i wanna get into the game, feel powerful, while crafting an excellent story thats easy to follow.

 

[SangRahl]

In every MMO and character customization driven RPG that allowed me, I've played an unconventional build... almost always a stealth-centric Rogue with emphasis on mobility and utility (versus the ever-common DPS power builds).

In WoW, I spent half my time defending my build against other players, and the other half running circles around them. Able to solo-complete quests 3-5 levels earlier than others, because I could sneak past elites of even and higher /con. By the time my guild was raiding, I was the guy scouting ahead of the raid, sapping patrols and allowing single-pulls when normal doctrine required blitzkrieg tactics and perfectly timed, coordinated movement. So what if I couldn't put out quadruple-digit damage per second... I could hunt and lock down the opposing force's rogues with alarming regularity (mostly playing a game of "If I were going to sneak in to my side's back lines..."). I might not have been able to kill them in 2 seconds flat, but having an Alliance rogue suddenly appear out of nowhere, sapped and helpless, tended to get the attention of any Horde players in attendence.

 

[drisky]

Dungen Fighter is more action than rpg, I just used whatever I was comfortable with. Its not like the same as WoW, when you just click the target and hit it you have to use the ones best for you. Honestly I've never encountered anyone complaining about my build in that game so I don't know what happened to you.

 

[fundayz]

I dislike min/maxers as much as the next guy. HOWEVER, when playing any sort of team game I expect people to be competent.

In WoW, I spent half my time defending my build against other players

What does that tell you about MMO's right there ?

That people don't like playing with incompetent players?

 

[SangRahl]

In WoW, I spent half my time defending my build against other players

What does that tell you about MMO's right there ?

About MMO's? Nothing.
About a subsect of the people that play them? That they need to play an RPG where if they try to pull a calculator out to come up with the best possible way to make a character or use their abilities, the DM will say "A rock falls out of the sky and squashes your character. You're dead." Heheheh.

Through most of it, I enjoyed the interaction. Most of the time, they'd listen and accept my playstyle (one of the reasons I loved Foundation's Edge* as a guild... I'm really sorry to see it imploe like it did), others they'd keep on the "Well, you're wrong" bent, and I'd just go my merry way, and have fun playing 'Sap the poor sap' in contested lands.

*Although the post above made mention of being a member of the Horde, this one guild was while I was on sabatical and playing an Alliance member. It was the one, and only, time that I found Alliance players that weren't a waste of space, and both pleasant to be with and above average in ability. (I think it came form their being forged in LinII PVP before coming to WoW... their ability meant that they should have been Horde, but their past experience predisposed them to needing "pretty" characters to stare at all day/night long)

 

[Et3rnalLegend64]

I'll just say what everyone else said. Stop listening to what others tell you about your builds. If they work for you and you're not playing an MMO, then it's a good build, end of story. I don't see how other people's opinions can matter so much that it can put you off of an entire genre.

 

[subfield]

Unfortunately some games are less forgiving than others. RPG's can be divided into two types: those where you can "fuck up" your character by choosing the wrong skills, stat points etc, and games where you cannot - or where it's very difficult to do so in a permanent way.

Games in the former category are very simply an example of a "bad" RPG - e.g. diablo 2. I'll assert this even if by other peoples' standards they are "good". Its a matter of choice - if you're not enjoying playing, then stop - it's just a game, after all. Some people enjoy the masochism.

Games in the other category are the "good" kind of RPG - and they do exist e.g. FFVII. These types of games are the reason I'm glad to be a gamer.