Core Gamers Mostly Male, Casual Gamers Mostly Female, Says NPD

[Lightknight]

Wait... they say that casual gamers are overwhelmingly female while core gamers are mostly male but they don't present the numbers?

Does anyone have the actual numbers for this survey? Would it really have been so hard for them to slap a ratio in their article? (xx%/xy%)

The title of this thread should likely have included the word "PC" in it.

Other than that, this is exactly the distribution I would have expected to see. I just want to know by how much.

 

[KingDragonlord]

-Snip-

I think you're onto something here. I'm a woman and I'm decidedly in the "heavy core" category, but I'm also markedly more likely to play a game if it gives me a female option, and markedly less likely to play a game if all of the female characters are stripperific. It's not a moral judgement, it's just what appeals to me versus what doesn't. Sexy is fine, equal opportunity sexy is even better, but downright degrading and ludicrous isn't okay (like X-blades chick). I doubt my single sale counts for much, but I've noticed my female friends in the heavy/light core categories feel similarly, and as you say, together we could make or break someone's profitability margin.

I am relieved that at least one woman finds this reasonable. I can never be completely certain. I'm also relieved to have data so that we can have a concrete discussion. The good news from this is 1) It confirms that women are worth paying some attention to even with the core titles and 2) That most women are actually being served by the games they play (Casual games seem to be a lot more female friendly, just in my experience with many even clearly being targeted at female gamers over men, which this data shows is how it should be). Its good to know that men and women both to an extent are being served by sectors of the gaming market.

Side Note: I've always found the taste argument that you present more compelling than the moral argument when it comes to the sexual stuff. If games constantly featured guys walking around in little more than their banana warmers, I'd be grouchy about that too. There are more sensible ways to offer fan service. So you make a good point there and I think its one that would find more traction (if pitched correctly) than the moral argument as the latter puts men on the defensive needlessly.

 

[Something Amyss]

What we're 'afraid of' is people trying to homogenize the market so much we end up with lots of middling, fully politically correct complaint grey piles of sludge and no truly great games aimed at lots of different niches.

That's rich. Yeah, we wouldn't want a homogenised market. Except, we have a middling, homogenised market already.

 

[Something Amyss]

The thing thought is: no matter how much "broader" they make their games.. it NEVER has the positive effect on sales numbers they want it to have.

I would say it's more that it'll never be enough. Because no matter how big their audience, they will want more next time.

Ofcourse it doesnt help that some people want to arbritrary force political correctness and catering to non existant markets into games who have indeed be traditionally be male dominated.

Like who?

 

[michael87cn]

1) surveys are random so they are useless as the people they survey are random and their physical attributes mean NOTHING

2) everyone knows that the gaming population is mostly male. i have been playing online games of all varieties since i was 13 (currently 27) and the number of provably female gamers I've met I can number on both hands. There were a lot of men pretending to be women as well. you could say oh they were just in hiding. Okay sure I guess. What does that say about our culture as a whole? Not good things...

3) It doesn't matter...

4) It's really not surprising that something designed by a certain gender would appeal to that gender. There are very few games made specifically by a team of women/woman and maybe this APPEARS sexist but I feel those games would play very differently and be more enjoyable to the opposite sex if they were made by them. And I see nothing wrong with that.

5) Unfortunately I have had no problem finding men IRL that like video games. I have, however, never talked to a girl who liked video games other than facebook and phone games. Even my family members are like this. They'll try games and then just not have fun. Does that mean I speak for the entire world? Of course not but my life experiences are simply thus. Women seem to enjoy looking pretty (i am not even kidding) however that is attained. Clothing, makeup, working out, the women in my life spend a lot of time in front of the mirror, and like to hog the bathrooms. My mother enjoys buying purses and clothes. She says its not really having them that she enjoys so much as the search for them in the store. Fact is? Men and women *GAAAAAASP* are different. WOAH MATE THATS SEXIST! No, mate, that's fact.

6) Does it matter? No... if women want to play games they will. If they want more games they will eventually make them themselves. _I_ think its unfair to ask men to design games that women will love, because its hard to do just that without alienating men. It's very hard actually. It's hard to even understand women (as a guy) and vice versa.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

The reason being, "core videogames" still tend to aim directly to the straight male demographic, while "casual videogames" tend to be much more open to be all-oriented or even female-oriented.

/endofdiscussion

No no no it couldn't possibly be THAT!

Women must just have a `not a real gamer` gene. It's very sad.

OT: Five hours a WEEK? Five hours a DAY! Get on my level, scrubs.

Wait, I'm confused, why are you satisfied with this being the case? If that's true then to make a game appeal to female audiences it means to uber-simplify it, make it bereft of continuity or cultural references or a deep and meaningful story, remove most stats and advancement. They're basically glorified flash games which get face-lifts and cutesy graphics while they nickle and dime you. The implications of this should enrage you.


Why would you be happy if that's what it means to target female demographics? If that's how I was being targeted I'd be PISSED. Why do they not target you with actually good games that are hard and complex and intricate which cause you to feel deep emotions and simply revolve around more female-relevant topics? Why does a game need to be able to be played by an 80 year old non-gamer to be considered as a game which targets females?


No, I don't see this as them targeting females. They're targeting casuals. That the vast majority of female players play casual games is a fact but it's an irrelevant fact when we discuss this issue. The relevant philosophy behind these games is simple basic flash game level gameplay that can be enjoyed fully in the span of a few minutes between other activities. There's nothing inherently female-oriented about this unless you believe women can't get immersed and game for hours like guys do or that they don't like "hard" games or a million other stupid things which their design philosophies actually heavily imply. There's only casual-based design at work here and they're likening casuals to females. I think that's BS.

 

[Phasmal]

Wait, I'm confused, why are you satisfied with this being the case? If that's true then to make a game appeal to female audiences it means to uber-simplify it, make it bereft of continuity or cultural references or a deep and meaningful story, remove most stats and advancement. They're basically glorified flash games which get face-lifts and cutesy graphics while they nickle and dime you. The implications of this should enrage you.


Why would you be happy if that's what it means to target female demographics? If that's how I was being targeted I'd be PISSED. Why do they not target you with actually good games that are hard and complex and intricate which cause you to feel deep emotions and simply revolve around more female-relevant topics? Why does a game need to be able to be played by an 80 year old non-gamer to be considered as a game which targets females?


No, I don't see this as them targeting females. They're targeting casuals. That the vast majority of female players play casual games is a fact but it's an irrelevant fact when we discuss this issue. The relevant philosophy behind these games is simple basic flash game level gameplay that can be enjoyed fully in the span of a few minutes between other activities. There's nothing inherently female-oriented about this unless you believe women can't get immersed and game for hours like guys do or that they don't like "hard" games or a million other stupid things which their design philosophies actually heavily imply. There's only casual-based design at work here and they're likening casuals to females. I think that's BS.

??

How did you get all THAT out of my sarcastic post? Are you sure you quoted the right person?

I do not think `core` games need to be simplified in order to target women, that's hella patronising.
It's just they're marketed towards guys- that's pretty obvious.

Maybe women play more casual games because they're more easy to get into and often don't require having an expensive PC or console (which are usually seen by the public as `guy things` and often marketed specifically towards men). A lot of hidden object games tend to be aimed at women with interesting stories and female protagonists so that's not hard to see why women might play THOSE.
Add to that the gamer community's famous `welcoming attitude` and you've got plenty of reasons why women might lean away from those types of games.

Personally, I've always played `core` games, so I can only speculate- but I never once implied that games need to be `Uber simplified` for me or any other women.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Wait, I'm confused, why are you satisfied with this being the case? If that's true then to make a game appeal to female audiences it means to uber-simplify it, make it bereft of continuity or cultural references or a deep and meaningful story, remove most stats and advancement. They're basically glorified flash games which get face-lifts and cutesy graphics while they nickle and dime you. The implications of this should enrage you.


Why would you be happy if that's what it means to target female demographics? If that's how I was being targeted I'd be PISSED. Why do they not target you with actually good games that are hard and complex and intricate which cause you to feel deep emotions and simply revolve around more female-relevant topics? Why does a game need to be able to be played by an 80 year old non-gamer to be considered as a game which targets females?


No, I don't see this as them targeting females. They're targeting casuals. That the vast majority of female players play casual games is a fact but it's an irrelevant fact when we discuss this issue. The relevant philosophy behind these games is simple basic flash game level gameplay that can be enjoyed fully in the span of a few minutes between other activities. There's nothing inherently female-oriented about this unless you believe women can't get immersed and game for hours like guys do or that they don't like "hard" games or a million other stupid things which their design philosophies actually heavily imply. There's only casual-based design at work here and they're likening casuals to females. I think that's BS.

??

How did you get all THAT out of my sarcastic post? Are you sure you quoted the right person?

I do not think `core` games need to be simplified in order to target women, that's hella patronising.
It's just they're marketed towards guys- that's pretty obvious.

Maybe women play more casual games because they're more easy to get into and often don't require having an expensive PC or console (which are usually seen by the public as `guy things` and often marketed specifically towards men). A lot of hidden object games tend to be aimed at women with interesting stories and female protagonists so that's not hard to see why women might play THOSE.
Add to that the gamer community's famous `welcoming attitude` and you've got plenty of reasons why women might lean away from those types of games.

Personally, I've always played `core` games, so I can only speculate- but I never once implied that games need to be `Uber simplified` for me or any other women.

I'm sorry but that's what the implication of what you said was. If you are of the view that casual games are female-oriented, that means that the traits these games have which make em different from "core" games are what makes the difference between a game being female oriented or male oriented.


What are "hidden object games"? I've never heard of the genre. Are they like adventure style games? (like Monkey Island or something?) If so, yeah, those sound absolutely fine. I don't see em mentioned in this article though. I'd wager they'd count em as "core". Maybe they're just not quite that popular at all and just have a good size female audience. I'd much rather they get promoted over angry birds lol.


Finally, I may be biased but I take it as a positive, as opposed to a negative, if I hear of a girl being a passionate gamer. I really don't know much of anyone who'd degrade someone over it. I think this perception is an Xbox live thing which is outside my experience since I'm primarily on ps3 and tend to play fighters and Jrpgs. Maybe it's something to do with the anime scene being more welcoming than the broader gamer scene? It'd be interesting if it was.

 

[Phasmal]

I'm sorry but that's what the implication of what you said was. If you are of the view that casual games are female-oriented, that means that the traits these games have which make em different from "core" games are what makes the difference between a game being female oriented or male oriented.


What are "hidden object games"? I've never heard of the genre. Are they like adventure style games? (like Monkey Island or something?) If so, yeah, those sound absolutely fine. I don't see em mentioned in this article though. I'd wager they'd count em as "core". Maybe they're just not quite that popular at all and just have a good size female audience. I'd much rather they get promoted over angry birds lol.


Finally, I may be biased but I take it as a positive, as opposed to a negative, if I hear of a girl being a passionate gamer. I really don't know much of anyone who'd degrade someone over it. I think this perception is an Xbox live thing which is outside my experience since I'm primarily on ps3 and tend to play fighters and Jrpgs. Maybe it's something to do with the anime scene being more welcoming than the broader gamer scene? It'd be interesting if it was.

No, I think that core games are generally MARKETED to men whereas casual are generally marketed towards everyone or even specifically women. I do not think they have things in them that are implicitly male or the reverse for women.

I don't know why you're determined to imply I think women need things dumbed down. If I thought that I would have said that. I do not think that. I do think that perhaps after years of chasing the CoD audience the triple A industry hasn't exactly made itself look attractive to female newcomers.

And it's nice you don't know anyone who doesn't like female gamers, that's a good sign. I haven't run into any recently myself, but I have encountered them in all areas of gaming. I'm huge on lady gamers, we should have more. And games SHOULD NOT BE DUMBED DOWN FOR THEM BECAUSE IT IS NOT NEEDED.

 

[Guerilla]

The reason being, "core videogames" still tend to aim directly to the straight male demographic, while "casual videogames" tend to be much more open to be all-oriented or even female-oriented.

/endofdiscussion

Oh look, more assumptions based on absolutely NO evidence. Wow, I didn't know that videogames are SO sexist that women couldn't find even one game to play for 5-6 hours a week.

Casual videogames are more all-oriented because they started marketing them and making them for women AFTER women started buying them.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I'm sorry but that's what the implication of what you said was. If you are of the view that casual games are female-oriented, that means that the traits these games have which make em different from "core" games are what makes the difference between a game being female oriented or male oriented.


What are "hidden object games"? I've never heard of the genre. Are they like adventure style games? (like Monkey Island or something?) If so, yeah, those sound absolutely fine. I don't see em mentioned in this article though. I'd wager they'd count em as "core". Maybe they're just not quite that popular at all and just have a good size female audience. I'd much rather they get promoted over angry birds lol.


Finally, I may be biased but I take it as a positive, as opposed to a negative, if I hear of a girl being a passionate gamer. I really don't know much of anyone who'd degrade someone over it. I think this perception is an Xbox live thing which is outside my experience since I'm primarily on ps3 and tend to play fighters and Jrpgs. Maybe it's something to do with the anime scene being more welcoming than the broader gamer scene? It'd be interesting if it was.

No, I think that core games are generally MARKETED to men whereas casual are generally marketed towards everyone or even specifically women. I do not think they have things in them that are implicitly male or the reverse for women.

I don't know why you're determined to imply I think women need things dumbed down. If I thought that I would have said that. I do not think that. I do think that perhaps after years of chasing the CoD audience the triple A industry hasn't exactly made itself look attractive to female newcomers.

And it's nice you don't know anyone who doesn't like female gamers, that's a good sign. I haven't run into any recently myself, but I have encountered them in all areas of gaming. I'm huge on lady gamers, we should have more. And games SHOULD NOT BE DUMBED DOWN FOR THEM BECAUSE IT IS NOT NEEDED.

Yeah, I didn't actually believe you thought that, that's why I was pointing out what I see as a contradiction.

Hmm, not made for men but simply marketed to men. I guess that's...possible. I still do wonder though, how deep does this go. I wouldn't be surprised if this aim to sell a game to a male audience would affect more than the marketing a game receives. I'd assume a game developer co-ordinates with the marketers and designs a product which, while may not be quite as gender-oriented in design as the marketers make it out to be, still retains some aspects of that.

I mean, with some games where there's tons of pandering sexual stuff and bouncing spaceboobs everywhere, it's pretty easy to tell. I wonder if there's anything similarly insidious with other types of pandering which hasn't been identified as clearly yet.

Finally, with you actually being female you've had more chances to encounter it than I have I guess. I only know what I saw when I was in a setting where me, a female gamer and some other third person was there. Yep, I'm all for female gamers who are super duper into games just as much as I am!

 

[Guerilla]

The reason being, "core videogames" still tend to aim directly to the straight male demographic, while "casual videogames" tend to be much more open to be all-oriented or even female-oriented.

/endofdiscussion

Oh look, more assumptions based on absolutely NO evidence. Wow, I didn't know that videogames are SO sexist that women couldn't find even one game to play for 5-6 hours a week.

Casual videogames are more all-oriented because they started marketing them and making them for women AFTER women started buying them.

I disagree, as I'm convinced it's the other way around.

I disagree with the entire mentality behind "women are into casual games" because I kinda see an underlying "women are stupid" behind that. I find it sexist, personally. "Men play Deus Ex and Metal Gear Solid and Heavy Rain. Women play Candy Crush and Flappy Bird and Farm Heroes." How about... no.

Yet another assumption. It could be a number of reasons including the fact that they're less competitive than men [http://www.nber.org/papers/w11474]. The fact is that all sensible industries target specific demographics where their customers are, doing otherwise would be catastrophic. They leave of course room for expansion but the notion that they should ignore their demographics is absolutely ridiculous.

I repeat, the reason why there are so many female oriented games in the casual games industry is because the industry reacted to women's preferences, not the other way around, and this is how is always works. Welcome to Economics 101.

 

[Guerilla]

You know, perhaps I'm seeing sexism everywhere, but "women are less competitive than men" seems like yet another way to say "women are stupid".
"Men are competitive so they have success in work! Women aren't competitive, they stay in the kitchen!".

Also, I laugh at the whole idea that women aren't competitive. You haven't the SLIGHTEST idea how it is to be a woman around female colleagues. A man would recoil in horror at the amount of cold, cynical competition we're capable of.

Well, I'm sorry that reality and results of scientific research seem to be "sexist". Apparently any difference between the way of thinking between men and women is apparently sexist thus nature is sexist. Everything is sexist! And yes women are competitive with each other but on a completely different more discreet level [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/28/women-evolved-indirect-aggression-compete_n_4169651.html] that has nothing to do with the way competition works in videogames. But I guess you'll find something about that sexist too...

 

[Guerilla]

I suppose you've never seen me playing a fighting game or a MOBA. You'd learn a thing or two about women being competitive.

Remember that quoting internet articles to prove your point mean nothing. Do you know that just a century ago, science claimed that it demonstrated that black people are inferior to white people? And do you know that not even fifty years ago, lobotomy was considered the cure for depression?

Are you seriously using anecdotal evidence to counter argue scientific studies? Good for you but not all women are like that and most don't give a crap about videogames.

And are you SERIOUSLY comparing science a century ago with science now? One more reason I dislike feminism is the anti-science attitude some of you have. Science is the best way possible humanity has of understanding the world and ourselves. Rejecting science for your ideals doesn't make certain feminists any better than religious nuts who think the earth is 6000 years old because... you know... science can be wrong.

 

[San Martin]

I suppose you've never seen me playing a fighting game or a MOBA. You'd learn a thing or two about women being competitive.

Remember that quoting internet articles to prove your point mean nothing. Do you know that just a century ago, science claimed that it demonstrated that black people are inferior to white people? And do you know that not even fifty years ago, lobotomy was considered the cure for depression?

Are you seriously using anecdotal evidence to counter argue scientific studies? Good for you but not all women are like that and most don't give a crap about videogames.

And are you SERIOUSLY comparing science a century ago with science now? One more reason I dislike feminism is the anti-science attitude some of you have towards it. Science is the best way possible we have of understanding the world and ourselves. Rejecting science for your ideals doesn't make certain feminists any better than religious nuts who think the earth is 6000 years old because... you know... science can be wrong.

You should make a list of all the reasons why you dislike feminism; it might spark some interesting debate.

I mean this seriously. A good number of your posts have contained "one more reason", and I think you ought to compile them into a list and make a thread out of it.

The resulting discussion would probably just be an argument, but it's worth a try.

 

[Guerilla]

What I'm saying is - science is incredible and amazing. But not everything science does is correct, because, surprise! Science is made by humans and we're very far from infallible.
On one hand we live in a era or unbelievable scientific miracles, but on the other hand we have not moved away from the era of using leeches to cure diseases. If you do not believe so, and think every single scientific research you read about is correct, then it's true that we should all stop playing videogames before we all turn into serial killers.

Well, I am pretty certain I can't change your terrible opinion, so ok. Women aren't competitive, women only play casual videogames, and women stay in the kitchen.

So you're saying that science is amazing until it observes something that you don't like and then you ignore it. You know what, fine, do what you like, but don't expect from the rest of us to follow and don't start carelessly throwing words like sexist to try to discredit it. And fyi, the opinion that opposes science for the sake of dogma is the terrible one, not the other way around.

This isn't the only study btw there are others [http://www.chicagobooth.edu/capideas/fall02/genderandcompetition.html] but I guess you'll have to ignore them too because... lobotomies or something. The scientific consensus from a number of studies on videogames is that they don't cause violence so you're misrepresenting facts there too.