Corporal punishment

[aswiftlytiltingreality]

I know a lot of people who do have problems due to being sexually abused and I've talked to them about it. But never have I met someone who was spanked as a child who said, "I think I may be gay because when I was little my Dad spanked me and I thought that meant he wanted to do stuff to me."

I'll be the first to admit that I have problems. Do they stem from being spanked. No. They stem from other occurrences that happened later on in my life.

I also knew at that age that it wasn't right to touch someone else's behind. But never did it cross my mind that when I was being spanked it was because the adult had an ulterior motive because I knew they didn't. My parents were those parents that sat me down and told me if anybody tried to touch me anywhere I wasn't comfortable with to tell them or one of my teachers etc. because they were doing something wrong.

And there is no way to tell if it's wrong or right because this is one of those instances where right or wrong can't be clearly defined. In some cases spanking may be wrong and in other cases, it may be right.

 

[BLOONINJA 503]

I don't get why people are freaking out about corporal punishment. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out the difference between a good old fashioned "whooping" and out and out child abuse, but apparently, it is.

Because there's no need for "whooping." Hurting a child without needing to is technically child abuse. It might not be big time child abuse, but it's still wrong.

We Mexicans dont put up with self absorbed attitudes and we dont put up with bullshit, not when we needed to look after each other...(at least for me my upbringing wasn't smooth with all the drug cartels and gangsters and generally shit setting that is my hometown of Santa Ana)

Yeah, isn't that a really bad argument, to say "all of us do X, and it makes us better people" and then have to admit that some of those people are violent criminals?

I mean, is there some study showing a correlation between kids who didn't get physical discipline, and kids who grew up to join the drug cartels that I'm not aware of?

missed the point.

there was too much bigger shit to worry about than kids with stuck up attitudes.

like getting shot by gangters in one of many frequent drive bys

or

forced to work for drug cartels like many of my now deceased friends did becuase there parents didn't expect much from them.

My parents couldn't wait for our hissy fits to die down or else they would miss the bus to work.

My parents couldn't ignore my selfish behavior when I denied to go home early in my middle school days to take care of my sister's, that were home by themselves otherwise.

sorry if this is so weird compared to your childhood.

 

[Gamine]

I CANNOT raise my kids in the UK, they'd begin to get all kinds of ideas..no no no

 

[aswiftlytiltingreality]

Being gay is definitely not a sexual problem. I have a friend who was abused sexually who was bisexual and he said he believed (and I also believe this) that being bisexual was who he was and had nothing to do with the abuse, but that the oral fixation, drug addiction, alcoholism, and cutting were all related to the sexual abuse.

 

[BLOONINJA 503]

missed the point.

there was too much bigger shit to worry about than kids with stuck up attitudes.

Then that's a different conversation than most of us are having.

Then what is the conversation oh great powerful one???

mr. internet anomaly with uncontested wisdom.

shit... laadi-fucking-da.

I thought it was about Corporal punishment.

Instead of going with the majority vote of its wrong in any way,shape,or form, I mearly shared my circumstance where an "ass whooping" was the best choice in my development as a decent, humble human being.

It is for many.

 

[BLOONINJA 503]

corporal punishment has been shown, repeatedly, to be all but completely useless. the best way to enforce civil behavior is to acknowledge children when they behave the way you'd like them to, and ignore them when they behave poorly.

that seems to be the strategy of many pet trainers....

just saying.

 

[aswiftlytiltingreality]

corporal punishment has been shown, repeatedly, to be all but completely useless. the best way to enforce civil behavior is to acknowledge children when they behave the way you'd like them to, and ignore them when they behave poorly.

that seems to be the strategy of many pet trainers....

just saying.

Children should never be ignored and if you're going to go about it that way, you tell them, "If you can't say excuse me when interrupting a conversation than we're not going to listen to you" and then you ignore them. Just ignoring a child usually results in them acting out more forcefully to gain attention. I think what cheeze meant was you go off of the reward based system. You reward them for good behavior and ignore when they are bad or punish it with a grounding or time out. Most parents I know use that system but also utilize corporal punishment when the child's bad behavior is severe.

 

[BLOONINJA 503]

corporal punishment has been shown, repeatedly, to be all but completely useless. the best way to enforce civil behavior is to acknowledge children when they behave the way you'd like them to, and ignore them when they behave poorly.

that seems to be the strategy of many pet trainers....

just saying.

Children should never be ignored and if you're going to go about it that way, you tell them, "If you can't say excuse me when interrupting a conversation than we're not going to listen to you" and then you ignore them. Just ignoring a child usually results in them acting out more forcefully to gain attention. I think what cheeze meant was you go off of the reward based system. You reward them for good behavior and ignore when they are bad or punish it with a grounding or time out. Most parents I know use that system but also utilize corporal punishment when the child's bad behavior is severe.

Oh I know what cheeze meant, just that his elitism comes off a bit... elitist.

 

[Superbeast]

When I was a kid, if I did something bad (usually fighting with my older sisters) then I'd be sent to my room (without supper occasionally, though usually - unless it was really bad - I'd get brought something an hour later or so); loose TV priveliges or (when I got it) my playstation or whatever.

However, I was still an uppity little shit, and when I nearly knocked my sister out (dragged her legs first off a 5ft high cabin bed because she was winding me up) I'd get a smack across the bottom or the back of the legs.

When I was a bit older I got a (gentler) cuff over the back of the head.

My parents always explained why they were hitting me (or taking the playstation or sending me to bed early), and I certainly didn't think anything sexual about it - I'd been really naughty and so I deserved it.

We're not talking about getting your fists and pounding the kid black and blue (like Max said in regards to his parents "starting a fight they couldn't finish" - I'd be well impressed if, as a 6 year old, you could take on a 40y/o adult) but a simple, single, sharp smack to get the point across that I'd been really naughty.

And I stopped doing a lot of the stupid stuff because I didn't want to get smacked, so in my case it certainly worked. I don't hold any resentment towards my parents (that's come with being a teenager and a parental divorce, not from early childhood) and I've been a pretty good student through school and college.

If raising my own kids (which I hope to do some day) then I'd go with a similar philosophy - start with the "I'm very disappointed in you" routine (I had a teacher that very, very rarely shouted and hearing his disappointment when you fucked up really kinda hurt), then if they keep playing up taking TV or Bedtime Story priveliges or what have you, and finally if they're still naughty a (depending on age) tap round the legs or back of the head. Naturally you reward good behaviour.

Mind you, I think many issues with young kids these days is a lack of routine, or poor parenting (ref: programmes like Supernanny) - the parents let their kids run riot and watch TV unitl late at night, then just force them into bed. When I was a kid, I'd have a bath and be read a story, then go to sleep. This routine could be used to make me go to sleep in the middle of the day (since I was used to sleeping after it) - very usefuly for my parents on long drives.

In short, I think smacking should be a last resort and it should always be a single, sharp tap - no whaling on the kid, and never administered when angry.

Anyway, if smacking your kid on the butt is considered child abuse (like it is in the UK) how long until parents aren't allowed to bath their kids (since they'd be running their hands over a naked minor's body - surely they may take something sexual from that [note, this last comment is an attempt at irrational humour and scare-mongering to try to highlight why I think the anti-smacking notion that it's sexual abuse is a little...odd for the majority of parents])?

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Personally, I have come to the conclusion that banning corporal punishment is a typical example of middle-class stupidity. 'I think this dosen't work so I'll stop everyone from doing it.'

 

[GothmogII]

I can't say corporal punishment missing from schools is a bad thing...as far as I recall, it wasn't just a slap on the back of the head. Moreover instruments were used, rulers, canes, belts and the like. So yes, it's a very good thing they got rid of it. And, when you talk of bringing it back, where is this now? Primary level? Secondary? And, if the image of a 15 or 16 year old slung over their teacher's lap seems like a good idea to you...I honestly have no words.

Second...the nature of the punishment comes into question. I mean, sure, you want your child to be a polite upstanding person. But, why exactly should there be physical punishment for things like say, taking out of turn? Maybe I've missed it, but I'm pretty sure in the real world, you know the one you're training your child to interact with, people don't get hit for speaking when you don't want them to speak...and I'm also pretty sure if you did the only outcome would be you ending up with either a fine or in jail for hitting them.

I don't know...I'd agree, something needs to be done with the unruliest of the unruly, but corporal punishment just isn't it. For me anyway, I didn't like getting beaten with the spoon and choked (yes I said choked), and I certainly wouldn't want to inflict that on others. You can trust parents to parent. But there is always going to be a sizeable portion who go overboard, and if you can live with that, great, all I know is I cant'.

 

[Ace of Spades]

If I were hit more often as punishment during my childhood, I would be more likely to lash out at someone because I would be a bitter surly asshole.

 

[Whiskyjakk]

I don't think anyone should be allowed to hit anyone regardless of age. Unless anyone can think of a relevant difference between hitting a child and hitting an adult you get some absurd conclusions if you allow violence as a means of discipline - should your boss be able to smack you for incompetent work?

And before anyone comes back saying that children need to be taught discipline while adults have already internalized it think of all the marginal cases. Plenty of adults show themselves not to have internalized societies norms either through persistant law breaking or for more excusable reasons such as mental disability.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

It's a balancing act, really. No punishment, or passive punishments, will likely cause the kid to continue misbehaving if they don't really care about being grounded. However beating your kids to the degree of broken bones, bleeding, bruising, and such is just as counter-productive, because they will be raised to have a ton of stored up anger they can't let out, and when they do let it out, it's usually just to beat up another person, or shoot them. But, in my mind and experience with my brother, occasional spankings and slaps for serious offenses does tend to have proper results, and passive punishments for the minor ones fills out the rest. So just hit your children with a sack of sweet Valencia oranges. It won't leave a bruise, and it'll let them know who's boss. Er, I mean, a spanking is fine to me under certain circumstances, but it shouldn't be the go-to punishment.

 

[darkless]

Just for schools this should be brought back.

For perspective i would ask you to excuse my bad grammar i will fix it when i sober up, i just got in from a wedding.

Anyway my point is that kids these day's are violent simply because they dont know the pain of being hit, if parent's where aloud hit there kids even just once i believe that the children of today would be more civilized. Thy would be less likely to strike out at someone because they know how it feels.

What do you think?

EDIT: Crap that should be corporal punishment, not capital punishment.

I believe you are right. My sister went about doing whatever she pleased (including swearing, running off and crying when she "couldn't go out at 12:00 at night on a school night.) There are too many kids like that who have no respect, and I am surrounded by them every single day. I think kids need to be punished so they don't run off free lance like that.

I'm in a similar situation I'm a cub leader and most of these kids need a nice resounding clatter so they know there are consequences of there actions.

 

[darkless]

Anyway my point is that kids these day's are violent simply because they dont know the pain of being hit,

No offense, but that is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. Parents are allowed to hit their kids, for one.
For two, you mean you think school should be allowed to let their employees hit kids?
I don't know about you, but if one of my teachers punched me, I'd pick up the nearest pointy object and ram it into their eye sockets until I was too tired to do so any longer.
Being hit doesn't discourage bad behavior, it just encourages me to respond with violence instead of smartassery.

EDIT: Now, parents hitting their kids? Fine, whatever. I think you're a piss-poor parent if you can't control your little brats without a punch to the face, but if you get them to shut up, that's fine by me. The thing is, neither my dad (if he were alive) nor my mom would be able to overpower me, so I don't see the point in starting a fight they can't finish.

My point was they don't get beaten senseless for every little thing most of the time all it takes is the threat of physical punishment or just one slap on the cheek doesn't even have to be hard it's just a way of teaching kid's that there are consequences to there actions.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

I don't think anyone should be allowed to hit anyone regardless of age. Unless anyone can think of a relevant difference between hitting a child and hitting an adult you get some absurd conclusions if you allow violence as a means of discipline - should your boss be able to smack you for incompetent work?

For much the same reason as we do not allow children to vote, or drink, or smoke, or have sex.

Secondly, your example is fallacious. A boss can simply fire you for incompetence, wheras your parents cannot force you to leave (as you would most likely die) if you behave badly. Secondly, if I were to strike a co-worker, I would fully expect to be struck back. So, while a boss would not beat you for bad work, he should punish you if you engage in destructive of prohibited acts.

 

[aswiftlytiltingreality]

corporal punishment has been shown, repeatedly, to be all but completely useless. the best way to enforce civil behavior is to acknowledge children when they behave the way you'd like them to, and ignore them when they behave poorly.

that seems to be the strategy of many pet trainers....

just saying.

Children should never be ignored and if you're going to go about it that way, you tell them, "If you can't say excuse me when interrupting a conversation than we're not going to listen to you" and then you ignore them. Just ignoring a child usually results in them acting out more forcefully to gain attention. I think what cheeze meant was you go off of the reward based system. You reward them for good behavior and ignore when they are bad or punish it with a grounding or time out. Most parents I know use that system but also utilize corporal punishment when the child's bad behavior is severe.

Cheeze is not Seidlet and Seidlet is not Cheeze, even though Cheeze agrees with Seidlet as fleshed out by the explanation above.

I apologize, Cheeze, and I agree on the ignoring part so long as the child is informed that they are being ignored based on bad behavior, not just ignored without stating reason. Though as I've said before, I still see nothing wrong with corporal punishment.

 

[Irridium]

I say that it should be brought back, kids these days are such brats its just sad

 

[gupy77]

I say that it should be brought back, kids these days are such brats its just sad

The thing people dont understand is that kids will always be brats. I know first hand because i have been to india where kids get beat for very little and the kids there are still as much of a brat as any little kid in places where they dont get physically hit.