Could Bioware be pulling a Nier with the next Mass Effect?

Infernai

New member
Apr 14, 2009
2,605
0
0
Yeah yeah Yeah, i know...we don't talk about the ending and I imagine most of everyone is going to be bringing the pitchforks and fire to this one. BUT, i am not here to discuss the actual Ending itself so much as an angle of what the Next ME game will likely do that hasn't been explored yet. This i think has become more relevant especially since Bioware expressed their desire to continue with the franchise after the third game, so i believe it bares discussing.

Let's face facts, it's going to take nothing short of an absolute retcon and rewrite to satisfy most of the fanbase after what happened with the original games ending. And given Bioware have decided they wish to stick with the ending no matter what everyone thinks, i don't exactly see much of a return for them if they want to make anything else set in the universe as it currently is: Set it as a prequel, then everything's a foregone conclusion and few will wish to give it a chance due to what awaits later. Or, in the case of some of the events in the Codex, we'll already know how it ends. Set it as a proper sequel after the ending and...well, where do we go from here?
As such, the only other way to still get people interested is if they manage to find a way to get them to stop thinking about the ending, which is where my suggestion for Pulling a Nier comes from.

What is pulling a Nier? Well, the brief of it comes down to "Make a great stand alone game based off of a really bad ending".

For further reference: Nier was developed as a kind of parallel universe to the forbidden game itself Drakengard, following on from a non-canon Alternate ending. For reference, this was an ending that was quite...horrid once you look at it: You have spent the game in a medieval dark fantasy setting trying to fight against an evil empire with the aid of your dragon and some rag-tag allies....only to then have that fall through as you fight a losing battle against extra-dimensional giant babies with teeth lead by a giant bald woman made of marble who transports you into modern day Tokyo. You then defeat her by singing.....and after this are shot down by a squadron of Japanese Jets and killed. So yeah, much like Mass Effect 3, it basically made your efforts totally pointless (The shit you gotta do to even GET that ending is NOT worth the reward)...plus it made no freaking sense. Still, unlike ME 3, Drakengard's developers have gone on record stating they were more or less fucking with everyone when they made that ending and it's requirements. Plus, it was one ending out of five rather different endings.

.....Yeah, Drakengard was a really weird game. However, from this ending came Nier, which took the ending of the game and ended up having it serve as the background event for what caused the game world to be the way it is. As a shock, the game was good...it was a well written, emotional roller-coaster about a fathers desire to cure his daughter of a life threatening disease as monsters grow to a greater threat, culminating in the main character deciding which is more important. The world? Or his daughter?

So yeah, basically I'm saying Bioware needs to pull something like that with the next ME game: Parallel/ Do you agree? Disagree? Do you have a totally different way that they could possibly continue the series while retaining the ending? Discuss!

PS- Please don't kill me for bringing up a discussion about ME 3....
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
13,769
5
43
Yeah... really don't see that happening. It's not really Bioware's style.

Besides, as far as I'm aware the same people are still in charge and last I checked they were either in denial or unwilling to admit what a complete fuck-up of an ending they had wrought.

My money is on a prequel (First Contact War perhaps) or a story that takes place at roughly the same time as the trilogy. Outside chance of a post-ME3 story that chooses one of the endings as canon (probably Destroy).

Y'know, much as I love Mass Effect, I find myself hoping that whatever the next game is completely bombs in sales, just to hammer the point home.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
6,651
0
0
I'm guessing Bioware will use their statistical analysis and just decide amongst themselves what the canon ending and choices are. That will piss off a lot of people, but we've seen that they don't really give a shit about that. I still don't understand how could they be so stupid to make a game with more than one ending in a time where sequels dominate the market. And they already knew that they were gonna make more Mass Effect games. If they ever decide to make a game set after ME3 they will piss off a lot of people who didn't make the choice that Bioware decided to expand upon.

I would like to see a game set before the First Contact War, when humanity first discovered the Mass Relays or the prothean ruins on Mars. Imagine what they could do with that.
 

AD-Stu

New member
Oct 13, 2011
1,287
0
0
Infernai said:
Let's face facts, it's going to take nothing short of an absolute retcon and rewrite to satisfy most of the fanbase after what happened with the original games ending. And given Bioware have decided they wish to stick with the ending no matter what everyone thinks, i don't exactly see much of a return for them if they want to make anything else set in the universe as it currently is: Set it as a prequel, then everything's a foregone conclusion and few will wish to give it a chance due to what awaits later. Or, in the case of some of the events in the Codex, we'll already know how it ends. Set it as a proper sequel after the ending and...well, where do we go from here?
Honestly, I believe Bioware really are capable of declaring one ending as canon (or explain away the differences between the three with a hand wave to get everything back in a unified post-ME3 universe) and just moving on. They've done it before for the sake of convenience (look at how easily they worked in thermal clips just because it suited their next game, for example) and I'm sure they'd do it again.

As for pulling a "Nier"... n'yeah, as others have said, I don't really see it being their style. Retcons and hand waves yes, complicated stuff not so much.
 

Anti-American Eagle

HAPPENING IMMINENT
Legacy
May 2, 2011
3,772
8
13
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
I personally think they're going to pull an elder scrolls. Make all endings technically canon, kind of a hybrid between all of them. However a Nier would be fantastic and probably the only thing that could ever get my hopes up on another bioware game.
 

hazabaza1

Want Skyrim. Want. Do want.
Nov 26, 2008
9,612
0
0
The thing about "pulling a Nier" is that it's a crazy fucking non-standard business practice. And honestly, with a franchise as big as Mass Effect, they'll be getting more sales by keeping the name rather than leaving obscure hints from within the game.
 

Animyr

New member
Jan 11, 2011
385
0
0
Eh, my guess is that they'll do what the did with the Citadel DLC; that is, avoid the ending entirely, either by setting it before or otherwise sidelining everything to do with it.

And if they're going to insist on not changing it, that's probably the correct route to take.
 

Mikejames

New member
Jan 26, 2012
797
0
0
I still feel that accommodating all of the differences for a direct sequel would be impossible, but I don't really see it aiming for an alternate canon either.

At the risk of hearing people say, "it didn't work with Dragon Age 2," I think that whenever the next game is set its strength may have to be in making it a smaller, more personal story, as there's no way to raise the stakes after the last game.

Zhukov said:
Y'know, much as I love Mass Effect, I find myself hoping that whatever the next game is completely bombs in sales, just to hammer the point home.
The point of the ending not working for people has been hammered to death. I wouldn't wish for a poor game if there was a chance to make something enjoyable again.
 

Bara_no_Hime

New member
Sep 15, 2010
3,646
0
0
I came to this thread because the title made me imagine Shepard running around in a field killing monsters and the occasional random sheep. ^^

I really liked Nier. Great game, even if getting all four endings was kind of a pain in the ass. And I honestly had no idea that it was related to a game I'd never heard of - although the insanely complex premise now makes far more sense. Thank you for that OP.

As to ME 4... well, personally, I'd like to see them get Drew Karpowski (sp?) back. His ending (the Reapers are fighting Entropy) was WAY better than the current Organics/AI ending. Honestly, I'd like to see that explored since all those plot threads were left dangling and unanswered at the end of ME3.
 

UrinalDook

New member
Jan 7, 2013
198
0
0
Adam Jensen said:
That will piss off a lot of people, but we've seen that they don't really give a shit about that.
Do you honestly believe Bioware don't give a shit about what their fans think? Are you mad? I'm guessing I probably won't be able to talk you out of your cynicism, so I'll talk to it. Pleasing more people = getting more money. Even if you insist on ignoring all the times Bioware have made a show of listening to their fans, surely you can appreciate they understand that pissed off people won't buy more of their games?

Adam Jensen said:
I still don't understand how could they be so stupid to make a game with more than one ending in a time where sequels dominate the market.
I'm sorry, but WHAT? Just pause a second. Look at your username and avatar. Remind yourself what game he's from.

How can you be so much of a fan of franchise that makes heavy use of player choice and multiple endings that you base on online persona around it, and then lambast a company for making a similarly branching story? Hell, ME3's ending is practically a carbon copy of Deus Ex's! The whole draw of Mass Effect, from day one, has been player choice. Your mileage may vary on whether or not they succeeded but multiple endings was pretty much the core concept. And it sold.

Adam Jensen said:
And they already knew that they were gonna make more Mass Effect games.
Did they? Bioware released a video this very week in which Casey Hudson explicitly stated he was proud they'd managed to finish the trilogy. He cites the number of developers forced to close in recent years as a reason to fear an uncertain future. He pretty much flat out said they were lucky to get three games, let alone 'more'.

Adam Jensen said:
If they ever decide to make a game set after ME3 they will piss off a lot of people who didn't make the choice that Bioware decided to expand upon.
And what if they don't? What if they come up with a story where all ME3's endings are valid starting points?

Adam Jensen said:
I would like to see a game set before the First Contact War, when humanity first discovered the Mass Relays or the prothean ruins on Mars. Imagine what they could do with that.
I can imagine how much it would suck. Pre-FCW means no aliens. Without the turians, asari, krogan... all those other species, it would be a pale ghost of the Mass Effect we've all come to love. If they stuck to their own story, biotics wouldn't have had time to come into public awareness. So no biotic classes. Scratch off another vital piece of ME lore. Hell, if it's set before they find the ruins, then you don't get any mass effect tech at all. It literally wouldn't be a Mass Effect game. It would be humans bumbling about on Mars. For a whole game.

Whenever this issue is raised, people always seem to forget the two years we have between Mass Effect 1 and 2. All the tech we've got used to, all the balance of power in the galaxy. And we've got a vast, Reaper-free galaxy to play in. Make it an Obsidian style 'personal' quest, maybe set it in the Terminus Systems for a bit of lawless fun and I am totally sold.

Ultimately, speculating like this helps no one. The next Mass Effect game will either be awesome, or total garbage. We may as well wait until we at least have some context to decide which one.
 

norashepard

New member
Mar 4, 2013
310
0
0
I'm guessing they'll probably just pick a canon ending of the ones available (probably the Destroy/Shepard Lives one or Control if I had to guess) and set it all way way way in the future (of the future) so any possible loose ends are tied up (Like making sure all party members in 1-3 are absolutely dead. Except maybe Liara.)

Or they could do a Warp in the West style thing and have all endings canon, but have some unforeseen consequence combine them. Like, maybe Shepard chose synthesis, but somehow it merged her/him with the citadel anyway, and resulted in a blast that destroyed all the synthetics or whatever. Less good IMO, but probably more manageable from a writing perspective I think.
 

Loop Stricken

Covered in bees!
Jun 17, 2009
4,723
0
0
Infernai said:
Could Bioware be pulling a Nier with the next Mass Effect?
What, you mean make the most attractive female a futa?
*Ponders Tali futa...*

[sub][sub]I'll be in my bunk[/sub][/sub]

=====

Anyways, your idea is interesting, but not particularly necessary and a pretty big departure from Bioware's established style.
That's not to say it wouldn't be interesting, just extremely unlikely.
 
Aug 19, 2010
611
0
0
It's unlikely, since it would be difficult to make it good. They will either canonize one of the endings, at which everyone will be outraged, or they are gonna make it so the ending becomes inconsequential, which is pretty much impossible.
However, if they do pull it off, you might call that...*puts on glasses* a nier miss.
 

Archer666

New member
May 27, 2011
166
0
0
Aww, I thought you were going to say "Make a game that treats us as mature adults and shatters all our hopes and dreams with a sledgehammer.". Because that'd be a good thing for Bioware to do, instead of pandering to the most creepy parts of their fanbase.
 

shrekfan246

Not actually a Japanese pop star
May 26, 2011
6,374
0
0
Mikejames said:
At the risk of hearing people say, "it didn't work with Dragon Age 2," I think that whenever the next game is set its strength may have to be in making it a smaller, more personal story, as there's no way to raise the stakes after the last game.
To be honest, the best part of Dragon Age II was the fact that the tried to make it a smaller story focused on Ser Hawke and Kirkwall. They just completely flubbed the execution and made three completely separate arcs with nonsensical losses of time in between, and made Kirkwall a bit too... I wouldn't really say small but it certainly didn't feel all that lively.

OT: I wouldn't mind. But I didn't mind that-which-must-not-be-named either. I do think the best course of action for them to take is place it in a point of time completely unrelated to Shepard though, and so the best way to avoid any potential fallout out of making something into concrete canon would just be to go before the entire Mass Effect trilogy began in the first place. There's still plenty of lore for them to play with and build off of, anyway.
 

Zipa

batlh bIHeghjaj.
Dec 19, 2010
1,489
0
0
Personally I would love to see a ME RTS space game, but its just a pipe dream I know as the genre is not popular enough for Bioware to take a risk on.
 

omicron1

New member
Mar 26, 2008
1,729
0
0
I'd rather see them pull a far-future-universe Mass Effect out of their hat. Move on several hundred/thousand years, make the threat smaller and more relatable, and make everything as much removed from Mass Effect's foolishness as possible. I don't need to save the galaxy. Give me a ship and a crew and let me forge my own tale.
 

Zinzinbadio

New member
Dec 21, 2012
35
0
0
I really just want it to be a space merchant game set in the Mass Effect universe and you are in the same time as Shepard but have nothing to do with him just going around selling space cotton.