Could Bioware be pulling a Nier with the next Mass Effect?

[Sarge034]

Snip

I see three options...

1) Parallel story
This will eliminate having to deal with the ending, and any choices Shep made for that matter.

2) MMO
Cus they did it with Star Wars...

3) Elder Scrolls style
Just set the game 200+ years after the end of the previous game. All choices are rendered moot because only the big problems will be historically significant. No mass relays, or the new relay system would be the big one.

Y'know, much as I love Mass Effect, I find myself hoping that whatever the next game is completely bombs in sales, just to hammer the point home.

As much as it pains me to, I agree completely. There may have been fan backlash and a few scorned customers, like myself, might have decided not to buy any DLC but other than that there were no financial repercussions for their mistake. No real financial incentive to keep that from happening again. The problem is that people forget as time goes on. I still believe if the fan base had kept up the level of pressure that there was in the beginning throughout the Extended Cut bs and not bought any DLC we could have made a difference. All I can do now is not buy whatever bioware tries to shovel out next.

Spoiler: So, yea...(Click me, I'm a spoiler box!)

 

[GloatingSwine]

One could say that they already copied Cavia's "Multi-bad-end" style with ME3....

(Drakengard and Nier both have basically no happy endings at all. The "best" ending of Nier is probably one where your character is erased from history completely. The game reinforces this point by deleting all your savegames if you select this ending.)

 

[00slash00]

first of all, mess effect 3 was nothing like drakkengard. say what you will about the ending, but mass effect 3 was a good game. drakkengard, on the other hand, was total garbage. also, how were your actions completely pointless? you defeated the villain and accomplished your goal, whether or not you die in the process is irrelevant.

as for how to continue the series...i really dont see your argument. why would a prequel not work? if they set it during the krogan rebellion, who cares if we already know how that conflict ends? if the end is more important than the ourney, then i cant help feeling like youre playing games for the wrong reasons (though it does seem to be the philosophy held by the people who swore of bioware just because they didnt like the ending to a game). a sequel is also a reasonable idea. there are plenty of species. just because the reapers are gone, that doesnt mean another conflict couldnt arise

also, the op couldnt really say any more about the plot of nier without giving away spoilers, but that summary did not do it justice. easily some of the best writing ive seen in a game and so many "holy shit" plot twists. one of the few games that made me cry. play it if you havent already, and be sure to finish it at least 3 times (you dont have to replay the whole game, after you finish it once, you continue from the halfway point)

 

[ellers07]

I realize I'm probably alone in this, but I would love an actual sequel. I don't think it should be about Shepard. ME3 ends with the galaxy in an absolute wreck. I would love to see how they fix it. I saw the first trilogy as a story of different alien races coming together to defeat the threat of the reapers. Now we can see if these can actually continue to work together. What I think has a lot of potential is the fact that many of these races are scattered with no easy way to return to their home worlds.

The possible set up fascinates me. You've got what's left of Earth plus the Asari, Krogans, Geth, Quarians, Salarians, and whoever else showed up trapped in our solar system. The game wouldn't have to deal with any big outside threat like reapers and could focus on merely surviving and hopefully rebuilding without killing each other. When you throw all these different alien personalities together how long before they start turning on each other for what limited resources there are.

I think you would need an entirely new character and it would be his/her/its job to try to keep things together. There would be plenty of choices to be made with a wide variety of outcomes. The ultimate goal would be to rebuild the mass relay systems and get as many groups home as possible. With the combined knowledge of all the races who worked on the Crucible, surely they could create some sort of primitive relay system.

It might be the worst idea ever, but I like considering what would have to be done to get the galaxy out of the post-reaper turmoil. I think there's enough conflict and turmoil that could lead to another very interesting trilogy. It wouldn't be as large in scope and threat as the first, but that might be a good thing. I don't know. I'd play it.

 

[chickenator88]

I liked the ending of ME3. It fit in with the theme of mediocrity the game seemed to have going on.

 

[Frostbite3789]

I would like to see a game set before the First Contact War, when humanity first discovered the Mass Relays or the prothean ruins on Mars. Imagine what they could do with that.

What could they do with that? It sounds neat as a concept, but I'm drawing a blank on what kind of game that'd be. Or what it'd feature.

 

[ellers07]

Let's face facts, it's going to take nothing short of an absolute retcon and rewrite to satisfy most of the fanbase after what happened with the original games ending.

Disagree with this fact. A vocal minority is not the fanbase.

Really and where is this silent majority of fans that love the endings?

(Slowly raises hand) Well, love is a strong word, but I liked them just fine (Please don't hurt me).

 

[WanderingFool]

Yeah yeah Yeah, i know...we don't talk about the ending and I imagine most of everyone is going to be bringing the pitchforks and fire to this one. BUT, i am not here to discuss the actual Ending itself so much as an angle of what the Next ME game will likely do that hasn't been explored yet. This i think has become more relevant especially since Bioware expressed their desire to continue with the franchise after the third game, so i believe it bares discussing.

Let's face facts, it's going to take nothing short of an absolute retcon and rewrite to satisfy most of the fanbase after what happened with the original games ending. And given Bioware have decided they wish to stick with the ending no matter what everyone thinks, i don't exactly see much of a return for them if they want to make anything else set in the universe as it currently is: Set it as a prequel, then everything's a foregone conclusion and few will wish to give it a chance due to what awaits later. Or, in the case of some of the events in the Codex, we'll already know how it ends. Set it as a proper sequel after the ending and...well, where do we go from here?
As such, the only other way to still get people interested is if they manage to find a way to get them to stop thinking about the ending, which is where my suggestion for Pulling a Nier comes from.

What is pulling a Nier? Well, the brief of it comes down to "Make a great stand alone game based off of a really bad ending".

For further reference: Nier was developed as a kind of parallel universe to the forbidden game itself Drakengard, following on from a non-canon Alternate ending. For reference, this was an ending that was quite...horrid once you look at it: You have spent the game in a medieval dark fantasy setting trying to fight against an evil empire with the aid of your dragon and some rag-tag allies....only to then have that fall through as you fight a losing battle against extra-dimensional giant babies with teeth lead by a giant bald woman made of marble who transports you into modern day Tokyo. You then defeat her by singing.....and after this are shot down by a squadron of Japanese Jets and killed. So yeah, much like Mass Effect 3, it basically made your efforts totally pointless (The shit you gotta do to even GET that ending is NOT worth the reward)...plus it made no freaking sense. Still, unlike ME 3, Drakengard's developers have gone on record stating they were more or less fucking with everyone when they made that ending and it's requirements. Plus, it was one ending out of five rather different endings.

.....Yeah, Drakengard was a really weird game. However, from this ending came Nier, which took the ending of the game and ended up having it serve as the background event for what caused the game world to be the way it is. As a shock, the game was good...it was a well written, emotional roller-coaster about a fathers desire to cure his daughter of a life threatening disease as monsters grow to a greater threat, culminating in the main character deciding which is more important. The world? Or his daughter?

So yeah, basically I'm saying Bioware needs to pull something like that with the next ME game: Parallel/ Do you agree? Disagree? Do you have a totally different way that they could possibly continue the series while retaining the ending? Discuss!

PS- Please don't kill me for bringing up a discussion about ME 3....

I think you should be punished for bringing up Drakengard, period, but that neither here or now.

Anyways, I doubt Bioware would do this. Like everyone has already said, not there style.

But, Im starting to wander which of the three endings they will use (no, the refuse ending in not going to be canon, end of discussion.) Really, I think they will try to somehow incorporate all three endings in some fashion.

 

[bl4ckh4wk64]

Hhm, I'd have thought all the Bioware knee-jerk hate would have died down, but I guess it was just waiting for another thread...

OT: I don't think Bioware would do that. They have more sense than that...

 

[Section Crow]

Wait a fucking minute... THAT ending was carried on in NIER?! What the fuck?! My brain disregarded that ending for years as random bullshit! I was 8 years old when i completed drakengard, how could i have realized?!

I don't even care anymore, my heart is heavy my mind is distraught *sigh* just kill Shephard and bring Thane back to life...

 

[UrinalDook]

Let's face facts, it's going to take nothing short of an absolute retcon and rewrite to satisfy most of the fanbase after what happened with the original games ending.

Disagree with this fact. A vocal minority is not the fanbase.

Really and where is this silent majority of fans that love the endings?

Just as nonexistant. The majority of people that played ME3 frankly don't give a shit either way.

Can't prove it, natch, but my biggest supporting argument is that they're not on the internet. Because they don't care about games enough to talk about them on the internet. The recent stats they released on ME3 make for some compelling reading to. Compare stats like James Vega being the third most used squadmate with general opinion of him on the internet. Or how people who played as default male soldier Shep vastly outweigh Vanguard female Shep, again in contrast to the opinions you usually see on the net.

 

[Gnmish]

I didn't mind the ending to ME3, it could have had a bit more substance to your choices, perhaps a proper epilogue ala Fallout 3 and New Vegas would have made the ragers a bit less mad.

I'd also love to see a proper sequel, set it 200 years in the future, have Liara, Wrex, and the other long lived characters turn up, have some smart cookies around the galaxy are rebuilding the mass relay networks in several places through out the galaxy. As the isolated/fragmented galaxy comes back in to contact with each other the new empires being formed spark tensions, and possibly war.

Considering a lot of sci-fi/fantasy story lines start from a point where everyone is recovering from a world defining massive cataclysm, this seems like a logical place to start. Shepard, the citadel council, the reapers will all be part of a creation myth for a new galaxy.

 

[Infernai]

first of all, mess effect 3 was nothing like drakkengard. say what you will about the ending, but mass effect 3 was a good game. drakkengard, on the other hand, was total garbage. also, how were your actions completely pointless? you defeated the villain and accomplished your goal, whether or not you die in the process is irrelevant.

as for how to continue the series...i really dont see your argument. why would a prequel not work? if they set it during the krogan rebellion, who cares if we already know how that conflict ends? if the end is more important than the ourney, then i cant help feeling like youre playing games for the wrong reasons (though it does seem to be the philosophy held by the people who swore of bioware just because they didnt like the ending to a game). a sequel is also a reasonable idea. there are plenty of species. just because the reapers are gone, that doesnt mean another conflict couldnt arise

also, the op couldnt really say any more about the plot of nier without giving away spoilers, but that summary did not do it justice. easily some of the best writing ive seen in a game and so many "holy shit" plot twists. one of the few games that made me cry. play it if you havent already, and be sure to finish it at least 3 times (you dont have to replay the whole game, after you finish it once, you continue from the halfway point)

I'm going to admit i was rather tired when i wrote up the opening post, so i'll try and express myself a little better now that I'm not about to pass out.

The Drakengard ending- Ok yeah, I'm gonna be the first to admit that the two games I'm comparing are of VERY different quality to one another, but i'll explain a bit more on this one.
Drakengards final ending was in a way a losing battle. Ok yes, you defeated the empire and the little girl controlling it...but you essentially caused an apocolypse of giant man-eating babies (I forgot where i read it but, essentially there was some hints that Caim's world got fucked over). Let's also not forget something else: Your actions doomed the world of Nier. Naturally, because of spoilers i can't explain why but....let's just say Caim and Angelus were the catalyst for everything bad in that world and leave it there. So yeah, Evil baby queen and Empire dead, but both worlds are fucked over anyway....I wouldn't exactly call that a fulfilling conclusion.

The prequel/sequel issue- I'm not going to deny a prequel and a sequel can work. Nier was a testament that you can salvage something beautiful from a really shitty ending, and Crisis Core has shown that you can do a compelling prequel. The problem is you have to do it right, make the conflict the player faces now relevant or, alternatively, work towards uncovering information that hadn't been previously made clear to the players that change the events of the main games meaning. I understand the journey is an important part of a game: Hell you can have the most emotional and great climax in the world, but if your journey is nothing short of unbearable then it's a large amount of effort for a small pay-off. The journey matters just as much as the conclusion to it, and i hate it when i see either aspect neglected when there is potential there.

I realize i probably got off track with that but, basically, yes i don't deny a sequel or a prequel can work....it's just making them work can be quite a hard thing to do. You have to do it right, otherwise you create something divisive or, worse, utterly pointless.

In regards to the Nier Description, i will fully admit i did not do it any shred of justice with my description. But, well, spoilers. Drakengard i can more or less spoil given few life forms on this planet will actually go play it. Nier meanwhile is one of those games that should be played, to be experienced.

Wait a fucking minute... THAT ending was carried on in NIER?! What the fuck?! My brain disregarded that ending for years as random bullshit! I was 8 years old when i completed drakengard, how could i have realized?!

I don't even care anymore, my heart is heavy my mind is distraught *sigh* just kill Shephard and bring Thane back to life...

Ah, breaking minds is such a wonderful thing to do......MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I think you should be punished for bringing up Drakengard, period, but that neither here or now.

Anyways, I doubt Bioware would do this. Like everyone has already said, not there style.

But, Im starting to wander which of the three endings they will use (no, the refuse ending in not going to be canon, end of discussion.) Really, I think they will try to somehow incorporate all three endings in some fashion.

I would argue that the refusal ending would arguably be a perfect ending for "Pulling a Nier" but, as most have argued, it's not really Biowares style to do that. Still, they likely will have to pick some form of ending. Or, just set it so far in the future that the choices become pointless (Which, given synthesis exists, will be a bit harder to do..)

P.S- Drakengard.

 

[Ishigami]

The only way I would consider the next ME for purchase would be BW ignoring everything that happened in ME2 and ME3.
If it refers to it or builds up on it I will stay the fuck away. There is no way that I will get invested in that shit again.
And I don't see this happening...

 

[Todstyak]

They will probably go with a prequel but my problem is i don't feel all that interested in the first contact war or the rachni wars or anything else before the origional really. i think this is because a large part of the dynamic that made the ME3 trilogy was the 'anything could happen" theme throughout. Plus any new hero would have to fill Commander shepard's shoes. Not that they are big shoes mind you but what made shepard work was the connections with all of these other diverse characters in classic Bioware fashion but especially with the first contact war setting, you dont really have the option of much diversity with allied characters since it was essentially humans VS. not humans. they could make you play as a turian or something but that seems unlikely.

 

[crimsoncheesecake]

I really dont see a problem with the next game being a prequel, although your choices couldn't be nearly as impactful on what fate the galaxy suffers Bioware could still create compelling character interactions and an interesting personal story where your choices have effects on a much smaller scale but still provide the proper emotional rewards. Plus I wouldn't mind more open areas to move around in, particularly in combat so that it wouldn't be so damn linear and underwelming compared to the scale which the cinematics and background visuals and imply.

 

[Something Amyss]

Having not played Nier, I always thoughtthis was a tangential theory and not a given.

Was it explicitly developed with this in mind?

Yeah... really don't see that happening. It's not really Bioware's style.

Yeah, too obscure for them to rip off.

 

[rofltehcat]

I'd expect it to either be placed a few hundred years after ME3 (rebuilding all of their technology, especially the massive mass relays takes time) or be a prequel (near the end of the war against the Turians sounds kinda right).
In both there'd be more than enough time for everyone to be mad at everyone else (again).