If everyone in the world was Valve we'd live in a world without war or poverty and cars would run on carbon dioxide and have cupcakes for exhaust.Grey Carter said:Now a lot of the apologists for Sega (and Square when they shut down that sweet looking Chrono Trigger Remake) cite this particular law and the biggest counter point is, yet again, Valve. There are countless mods/remakes/adaptations of Half Life and it's code yet somehow no shadowy forces have swept in and stolen the Half Life IP from under them.ArmorArmadillo said:It's slightly more complex than that. A sad feature (and big flaw IMO) of copyright law is that if you are aware of something that violates your IP, you are OBLIGATED to shut it down, and if you don't you will be seen to have waived your right to enforce your IP and will lose claim to it in the future.KeyMaster45 said:Legally the situation is black and white; Sega has every right to shutdown a fan project. That doesn't mean we have to agree with their decision; nor does it mean we can't view it in a negative light. Since by all outward appearances they let the game go through the full 8 years (maybe less) of development and shut it down only when it was released. If they didn't want them making it they should have shut them down long before now.
Yep, and it was looking really good too...shame.RaikuFA said:didnt square do this with chrono trigger
No, you're thinking of trademark law. There's no obligation to shut down a project by any means in US copyright law.ArmorArmadillo said:It's slightly more complex than that. A sad feature (and big flaw IMO) of copyright law is that if you are aware of something that violates your IP, you are OBLIGATED to shut it down, and if you don't you will be seen to have waived your right to enforce your IP and will lose claim to it in the future.KeyMaster45 said:Legally the situation is black and white; Sega has every right to shutdown a fan project. That doesn't mean we have to agree with their decision; nor does it mean we can't view it in a negative light. Since by all outward appearances they let the game go through the full 8 years (maybe less) of development and shut it down only when it was released. If they didn't want them making it they should have shut them down long before now.
The smarter move though: Find great fan projects, and then convince the fan devs to come make it into an official project that they can release.
Also, why pick on Sega when other people are doing the same thing and yet still fanatically praised by fans. Star Fox 64 on the DS? An 'update' of Kirby Superstar where the only new level was a palatte swap?
you apparently dont understand how copyright law works then. Copyright law applies only to the country where the business is founded, and so in the US, this is a simply black and white issue, in Japan, this is nowhere near as obvious of a solution, because they do not have the same laws as we do.ArmorArmadillo said:It's slightly more complex than that. A sad feature (and big flaw IMO) of copyright law is that if you are aware of something that violates your IP, you are OBLIGATED to shut it down, and if you don't you will be seen to have waived your right to enforce your IP and will lose claim to it in the future.
The smarter move though: Find great fan projects, and then convince the fan devs to come make it into an official project that they can release.
Seriously, it was mentioned just 2 posts above you that they got permission to do this multiple times, and yet they got shut down probably because the fan remake would interfere with their actual game.zombie711 said:Sega has the right to do this. Did the fans ever bother to contact sega in the EIGHT FRIGGGIN years it took to make that game and ask for permision to use their IP, (no seriously a group of guys spent 10 years making a kings quest game, and they were allowed to release because they asked for permision from Activision). I know 8 years is a lot of work, but most fan games (except mario games) are shut down so you should have seen this comming.
Uhm... I could go into TRIPS and the various treaties that tell most high income nations that the copyright law of the US is respected in another country.toapat said:you apparently dont understand how copyright law works then. Copyright law applies only to the country where the business is founded, and so in the US, this is a simply black and white issue, in Japan, this is nowhere near as obvious of a solution, because they do not have the same laws as we do.ArmorArmadillo said:It's slightly more complex than that. A sad feature (and big flaw IMO) of copyright law is that if you are aware of something that violates your IP, you are OBLIGATED to shut it down, and if you don't you will be seen to have waived your right to enforce your IP and will lose claim to it in the future.
The smarter move though: Find great fan projects, and then convince the fan devs to come make it into an official project that they can release.
Adventure 2 was okay, better than one, but certainly had its own share of problems, the main thing being the horrible camera. Summed up perfectly in the fight with the Biolizard, where the camera shifts to showing what's behind you at the points where it chases you so you can see it trying to rip your spine out, neglecting the more important, what's in front of you, like that death drop (okay fast moving current, but the end result is the same). A particularly annoying example considering that it was clearl a concious design choice, whereas at other times it's just poorly done but unintentional coding rearing it's ugly head. I felt like a cartoon villian that runs into a wall as he flees from the heroes because he was too stupid to pay attention to anything but them. I've played (rented) other sonic games after that and I assure you they haven't fixed this at all.twaddle said:Oh for the love of god people. The 2d sonic games were great, yes, but the sonic adventure games were great as well. The first sonic adventure had it's flaws yes and sega realized these said flaws and completely fixed them in the next game Sonic adventure 2. And the sonic advance games weren't that bad either especially sonic advance 3. I can't speak for the other games because they did seem bollocks. There was one more sonic game that was actually quite good that i can think of since the old 2d style ones and that was sonic rush. It was the first time they introduced a new character we were actually interested in and you have to admit that fight between blaze and sonic dragon ball z style was pretty sweet. Sonic Team isn't all bad they have a few good games it's just they don't know what to do with themselves.
Unless they want to do business internationally and are dealing with a US fan remake of a game.toapat said:you apparently dont understand how copyright law works then. Copyright law applies only to the country where the business is founded, and so in the US, this is a simply black and white issue, in Japan, this is nowhere near as obvious of a solution, because they do not have the same laws as we do.ArmorArmadillo said:It's slightly more complex than that. A sad feature (and big flaw IMO) of copyright law is that if you are aware of something that violates your IP, you are OBLIGATED to shut it down, and if you don't you will be seen to have waived your right to enforce your IP and will lose claim to it in the future.
The smarter move though: Find great fan projects, and then convince the fan devs to come make it into an official project that they can release.
Streets of Rage Remix. Sonic is a representation of Sega in this case.Ace IV said:I googled it, and I can only find stories of Sega shutting down a Streets of Rage remake, not Sonic. Is that what you meant? Can I get a link to what the comic refers to in the second panel?
But a single camera issue doesn't make sonic adventure 2 a bad game. Call me wet behind the ears, but Sonic adventure 2 was the first game I played that featured anything resembling a moral choice system and actually gave you something for finishing both stories and not only were both the light and dark side stories radically different, you actually were rewarded for essentially beating the game twice! Plus the story was decent (as decent as an E rated game can get, don't give me this shadow the hedgehog (game) crap where he says damnit every 10 seconds.) and maybe it was just me, but the multiplayer had a lot of value.archvile93 said:Adventure 2 was okay, better than one, but certainly had its own share of problems, the main thing being the horrible camera. Summed up perfectly in the fight with the Biolizard, where the camera shifts to showing what's behind you at the points where it chases you so you can see it trying to rip your spine out, neglecting the more important, what's in front of you, like that death drop (okay fast moving current, but the end result is the same). A particularly annoying example considering that it was clearl a concious design choice, whereas at other times it's just poorly done but unintentional coding rearing it's ugly head. I felt like a cartoon villian that runs into a wall as he flees from the heroes because he was too stupid to pay attention to anything but them. I've played (rented) other sonic games after that and I assure you they haven't fixed this at all.twaddle said:Oh for the love of god people. The 2d sonic games were great, yes, but the sonic adventure games were great as well. The first sonic adventure had it's flaws yes and sega realized these said flaws and completely fixed them in the next game Sonic adventure 2. And the sonic advance games weren't that bad either especially sonic advance 3. I can't speak for the other games because they did seem bollocks. There was one more sonic game that was actually quite good that i can think of since the old 2d style ones and that was sonic rush. It was the first time they introduced a new character we were actually interested in and you have to admit that fight between blaze and sonic dragon ball z style was pretty sweet. Sonic Team isn't all bad they have a few good games it's just they don't know what to do with themselves.
...thatstheguy said:To be fair, any fan who spends 8 years making a Sonic game instead of their own is doing it wrong.