Critics Ruin Video Games? ?Good!

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

I stopped reading when I got to the correction about the Cyberpunk trailer image.

It was already preachy, generalizing and overreacting, but if this person cannot even do the simple research to know what is going on in the image she uses as an example, none of her opinions or data have much worth to me.

Yes, there are legitimate complaints to be made about sexism and whatnot in games. Yes, people like the /v/irgins need to stop responding to it with "TITS OR GTFO". However, the only thing articles like this do is hurt the side that wants discussion. If you come out and say "The majority of you are immature, hateful, prejudiced fuckwads, willfully oppressing everyone different than you...... But let's have a civil conversation", you really shouldn't expect them to respond kindly.

snip

Do you want a solution? Stop doing it. There.

Stop doing WHAT? Stop responding to criticism? Stop buying games? Stop making games? Bomb game companies that portray sexism???

"Stop doing it" isn't a solution.

 

[Woiminkle]

This whole topic and the linked article make my head hurt.
Once again the word misogyny rears it's over-used head. So the author thinks that a police officer shooting a violent psychopath, who has CLEARLY just murdered a whole bunch of people with robotic scythe arms, is misogynistic because the cop is a man and the psycho is a woman. Wow, just wow.
If we can accept that murderers should be dealt with by the authorities then why is it suddenly woman hating when the perp is female? One could argue that the female being portrayed as the aggressor rather than a victim is actually a bit more progressive than the countless examples of damsels in distress of so many other titles.
Are there examples of stereotypes of women in games? Hell yes there are but there are also stereotypical males in most games too, but we don't accuse games of misandry.
What it really is, when you get down to it is a lack of innovation or laziness. Relying on the standard narratives and tropes that have proven successful in the past. Yes it's old and yes things would be more exciting if there were some more original ideas but to describe these little things as woman-hating and somehow harmful and marginalizing is a teensy bit of an over-reaction. These are just pieces of interactive entertainment after all, not part of some conspiracy against half the population of the planet.

 

[JudgeGame]

You guys are overthinking this. It doesn't matter if the cyborg chick is the villain or not, or that the cops are fascists or not.

The perspective of fictional characters does NOT represent the views of the creators. Disclaimers of that nature are fairly common for good reason it seems. This is FICTION afteral and complaining about the presence of evil in a fictional setting, is like complaining there's swastikas and nazis in a WW2 movie.
While fiction can go wrong, if it goes all political and the intended message is also backwards, at this point nothing suggests anything like that.

Just some shock value here. No big deal.
This stuff will probably sell and that's the bottom line.

This sexism in fiction complaint is one lost cause I don't mind seeing crashing against the cliffs.

I'm tired of people pretending that in the medium of videogames tone doesn't apply.

Well that's unfortunate for you, but unless you can prove some kind of sinister propaganda going on here, you won't get anywhere.
Boobs are allowed and boobs sell. You cannot fight this thing. Even if you boycott such games, there's a big enough audience that doesn't care or even loves this shit.

That's not what I'm talking about at all. Tone is just the emotions that the creator is trying to convey through stylistic choices.

There's manga artists who draw tentacle rape scenes to intentionally convey sadistic power over young women and teenagers and they get away with that too. Not my thing, but there's even a niche for that shit.
This mild, titilating cyberpunk stuff is just mainstream advertisement.

Where it has no place in civil society, the forbidden thought finds it's home in the realm of fantasy. Gamers don't turn to videogames in search for conformity and morality. Games is where we can let ourselves go without harming anyone.

I'm sorry I can't continue talking to you. You're creeping me out.

You lose the argument then.
Fetish porn simply exists; it's a simple fact and if that shocks you already, then prepare to live your life in a state of shock. I didn't even go into any detail here, nor did I praise the genre.

Seriously, you're already fighting a lost cause and you're not even putting up a proper fight.

I find it hard to believe you are actually claiming videogames are designed for people with troubling psychological issues. Do you think this is the right time to hold that frankly ignorant opinion? Did you really need to share that gem considering the circumstances?

I forgot which side of the argument I'm defending.

 

[OniaPL]

Snip

Now, this may be slightly off topic but I am interested anyways.

At first you can see just the normal parts of the woman, and then it slowly pans so that you can see the scythe- arms and bodies.
When I watched the trailer I thought it was more about the female representing beauty and the softer sides of humanity (as feminine characters usually do), and it being contrasted with the metal blades and bodies to show how the advancement in technology and such has corrupted this beauty and twisted the natural parts of humanity.
And I thought the people in complete black armor so that no skin or anything can be seen, who were firing their guns, was supposed to show the tougher, darker emotionless characters (representing the tough, cold but enduring aspects of humanity) terminating this corruption but sacrificing the beauty in the process.

What I was interested in was, what made you go to the Order vs. Chaos interpretation? Did it just come to your head or? IT was very well thought out.

 

[wulf3n]

I find it hard to believe you are actually claiming videogames are designed for people with troubling psychological issues.

Really? given that a large volume of games make you a hero for killing hundreds if not thousands of fellow human beings (usually a minority).

 

[veloper]

You guys are overthinking this. It doesn't matter if the cyborg chick is the villain or not, or that the cops are fascists or not.

The perspective of fictional characters does NOT represent the views of the creators. Disclaimers of that nature are fairly common for good reason it seems. This is FICTION afteral and complaining about the presence of evil in a fictional setting, is like complaining there's swastikas and nazis in a WW2 movie.
While fiction can go wrong, if it goes all political and the intended message is also backwards, at this point nothing suggests anything like that.

Just some shock value here. No big deal.
This stuff will probably sell and that's the bottom line.

This sexism in fiction complaint is one lost cause I don't mind seeing crashing against the cliffs.

I'm tired of people pretending that in the medium of videogames tone doesn't apply.

Well that's unfortunate for you, but unless you can prove some kind of sinister propaganda going on here, you won't get anywhere.
Boobs are allowed and boobs sell. You cannot fight this thing. Even if you boycott such games, there's a big enough audience that doesn't care or even loves this shit.

That's not what I'm talking about at all. Tone is just the emotions that the creator is trying to convey through stylistic choices.

There's manga artists who draw tentacle rape scenes to intentionally convey sadistic power over young women and teenagers and they get away with that too. Not my thing, but there's even a niche for that shit.
This mild, titilating cyberpunk stuff is just mainstream advertisement.

Where it has no place in civil society, the forbidden thought finds it's home in the realm of fantasy. Gamers don't turn to videogames in search for conformity and morality. Games is where we can let ourselves go without harming anyone.

I'm sorry I can't continue talking to you. You're creeping me out.

You lose the argument then.
Fetish porn simply exists; it's a simple fact and if that shocks you already, then prepare to live your life in a state of shock. I didn't even go into any detail here, nor did I praise the genre.

Seriously, you're already fighting a lost cause and you're not even putting up a proper fight.

I find it hard to believe you are actually claiming videogames are designed for people with troubling psychological issues. Do you think this is the right time to hold that frankly ignorant opinion? Did you really need to share that gem considering the circumstances?

I forgot which side of the argument I'm defending.

Not only did you forget your main argument, but you also forgot not to reply to me anymore. Are you still having fun, because I sure am.

What do you think shooting your friends online in some online FPS game is then? Or even merely speeding with a supercar through some virtual streets? Do other videogames simulate normal real life behaviour to you then?
Games are not about the boring and the mundane.
My poor sheltered strawman, this kind of escapism is normal. Do you even play games?

 

[JudgeGame]

I find it hard to believe you are actually claiming videogames are designed for people with troubling psychological issues.

Really? given that a large volume of games make you a hero for killing hundreds if not thousands of fellow human beings (usually a minority).

So far I've always given the benefit of the doubt and assumed games are made by and designed for aggressively immature idiots who can't tell their ass from their elbow and aren't aware that actions speak volumes. It's much better than the thought that Joe Gamer is a deranged sociopath who's on the verge of shooting up a classroom.

 

[wulf3n]

It's much better than the thought that Joe Gamer is a deranged sociopath who's on the verge of shooting up a classroom.

I can understand that.

 

[JudgeGame]

You guys are overthinking this. It doesn't matter if the cyborg chick is the villain or not, or that the cops are fascists or not.

The perspective of fictional characters does NOT represent the views of the creators. Disclaimers of that nature are fairly common for good reason it seems. This is FICTION afteral and complaining about the presence of evil in a fictional setting, is like complaining there's swastikas and nazis in a WW2 movie.
While fiction can go wrong, if it goes all political and the intended message is also backwards, at this point nothing suggests anything like that.

Just some shock value here. No big deal.
This stuff will probably sell and that's the bottom line.

This sexism in fiction complaint is one lost cause I don't mind seeing crashing against the cliffs.

I'm tired of people pretending that in the medium of videogames tone doesn't apply.

Well that's unfortunate for you, but unless you can prove some kind of sinister propaganda going on here, you won't get anywhere.
Boobs are allowed and boobs sell. You cannot fight this thing. Even if you boycott such games, there's a big enough audience that doesn't care or even loves this shit.

That's not what I'm talking about at all. Tone is just the emotions that the creator is trying to convey through stylistic choices.

There's manga artists who draw tentacle rape scenes to intentionally convey sadistic power over young women and teenagers and they get away with that too. Not my thing, but there's even a niche for that shit.
This mild, titilating cyberpunk stuff is just mainstream advertisement.

Where it has no place in civil society, the forbidden thought finds it's home in the realm of fantasy. Gamers don't turn to videogames in search for conformity and morality. Games is where we can let ourselves go without harming anyone.

I'm sorry I can't continue talking to you. You're creeping me out.

You lose the argument then.
Fetish porn simply exists; it's a simple fact and if that shocks you already, then prepare to live your life in a state of shock. I didn't even go into any detail here, nor did I praise the genre.

Seriously, you're already fighting a lost cause and you're not even putting up a proper fight.

I find it hard to believe you are actually claiming videogames are designed for people with troubling psychological issues. Do you think this is the right time to hold that frankly ignorant opinion? Did you really need to share that gem considering the circumstances?

I forgot which side of the argument I'm defending.

Not only did you forget your main argument, but you also forgot not to reply to me anymore. Are you still having fun, because I sure am.

What do you think shooting your friends online in some online FPS game is then? Or even merely speeding with a supercar through some virtual streets? Do other videogames simulate normal real life behaviour to you then?
Games are not about the boring and the mundane.
My poor sheltered strawman, this kind of escapism is normal. Do you even play games?

Escapism and fantasizing unspeakable acts are not the same thing.

 

[Baldr]

I want to know why all these articles claim that it is the industry as a whole, then use fringe/non-mainstream games as examples.

 

[veloper]

You guys are overthinking this. It doesn't matter if the cyborg chick is the villain or not, or that the cops are fascists or not.

The perspective of fictional characters does NOT represent the views of the creators. Disclaimers of that nature are fairly common for good reason it seems. This is FICTION afteral and complaining about the presence of evil in a fictional setting, is like complaining there's swastikas and nazis in a WW2 movie.
While fiction can go wrong, if it goes all political and the intended message is also backwards, at this point nothing suggests anything like that.

Just some shock value here. No big deal.
This stuff will probably sell and that's the bottom line.

This sexism in fiction complaint is one lost cause I don't mind seeing crashing against the cliffs.

I'm tired of people pretending that in the medium of videogames tone doesn't apply.

Well that's unfortunate for you, but unless you can prove some kind of sinister propaganda going on here, you won't get anywhere.
Boobs are allowed and boobs sell. You cannot fight this thing. Even if you boycott such games, there's a big enough audience that doesn't care or even loves this shit.

That's not what I'm talking about at all. Tone is just the emotions that the creator is trying to convey through stylistic choices.

There's manga artists who draw tentacle rape scenes to intentionally convey sadistic power over young women and teenagers and they get away with that too. Not my thing, but there's even a niche for that shit.
This mild, titilating cyberpunk stuff is just mainstream advertisement.

Where it has no place in civil society, the forbidden thought finds it's home in the realm of fantasy. Gamers don't turn to videogames in search for conformity and morality. Games is where we can let ourselves go without harming anyone.

I'm sorry I can't continue talking to you. You're creeping me out.

You lose the argument then.
Fetish porn simply exists; it's a simple fact and if that shocks you already, then prepare to live your life in a state of shock. I didn't even go into any detail here, nor did I praise the genre.

Seriously, you're already fighting a lost cause and you're not even putting up a proper fight.

I find it hard to believe you are actually claiming videogames are designed for people with troubling psychological issues. Do you think this is the right time to hold that frankly ignorant opinion? Did you really need to share that gem considering the circumstances?

I forgot which side of the argument I'm defending.

Not only did you forget your main argument, but you also forgot not to reply to me anymore. Are you still having fun, because I sure am.

What do you think shooting your friends online in some online FPS game is then? Or even merely speeding with a supercar through some virtual streets? Do other videogames simulate normal real life behaviour to you then?
Games are not about the boring and the mundane.
My poor sheltered strawman, this kind of escapism is normal. Do you even play games?

Escapism and fantasizing unspeakable acts are not the same thing.

"Shoot an augmented woman from behind, in the back of the head."
While most evil acts are quite speakable, fantasizing about such acts, speakable or not, can also belong to escapism.
In the given scenario however, the intended audience is expected to just stop at "Oh look, pretty woman, skimpy outfit, edgy scene, gun, BOOBS!" So nothing rare or unusual, just the usual teenage male thought proces.

Sex sells. You'd better get used to it.

 

[Woiminkle]

I find it hard to believe you are actually claiming videogames are designed for people with troubling psychological issues.

Really? given that a large volume of games make you a hero for killing hundreds if not thousands of fellow human beings (usually a minority).

So far I've always given the benefit of the doubt and assumed games are made by and designed for aggressively immature idiots who can't tell their ass from their elbow and aren't aware that actions speak volumes. It's much better than the thought that Joe Gamer is a deranged sociopath who's on the verge of shooting up a classroom.

Wow that's mighty big of you, Judgemental. Are you including yourself in this "benefit of the doubt" assessment of gamers? Your benefit of the doubt doesn't extend to people not really taking some of the content in a piece of interactive narrative fiction as seriously as you seem to? Does it not occur to you that people might be more worried about real world issues of sexism and racism and reserve their ire for those real injustices rather than imagined ones?
Are you even a gamer?

 

[CorvusFerreum]

You guys are overthinking this. It doesn't matter if the cyborg chick is the villain or not, or that the cops are fascists or not.

The perspective of fictional characters does NOT represent the views of the creators. Disclaimers of that nature are fairly common for good reason it seems. This is FICTION afteral and complaining about the presence of evil in a fictional setting, is like complaining there's swastikas and nazis in a WW2 movie.
While fiction can go wrong, if it goes all political and the intended message is also backwards, at this point nothing suggests anything like that.

Just some shock value here. No big deal.
This stuff will probably sell and that's the bottom line.

This sexism in fiction complaint is one lost cause I don't mind seeing crashing against the cliffs.

I'm tired of people pretending that in the medium of videogames tone doesn't apply.

Well that's unfortunate for you, but unless you can prove some kind of sinister propaganda going on here, you won't get anywhere.
Boobs are allowed and boobs sell. You cannot fight this thing. Even if you boycott such games, there's a big enough audience that doesn't care or even loves this shit.

That's not what I'm talking about at all. Tone is just the emotions that the creator is trying to convey through stylistic choices.

There's manga artists who draw tentacle rape scenes to intentionally convey sadistic power over young women and teenagers and they get away with that too. Not my thing, but there's even a niche for that shit.
This mild, titilating cyberpunk stuff is just mainstream advertisement.

Where it has no place in civil society, the forbidden thought finds it's home in the realm of fantasy. Gamers don't turn to videogames in search for conformity and morality. Games is where we can let ourselves go without harming anyone.

I'm sorry I can't continue talking to you. You're creeping me out.

You lose the argument then.
Fetish porn simply exists; it's a simple fact and if that shocks you already, then prepare to live your life in a state of shock. I didn't even go into any detail here, nor did I praise the genre.

Seriously, you're already fighting a lost cause and you're not even putting up a proper fight.

I find it hard to believe you are actually claiming videogames are designed for people with troubling psychological issues. Do you think this is the right time to hold that frankly ignorant opinion? Did you really need to share that gem considering the circumstances?

I forgot which side of the argument I'm defending.

Where did he say that games are designed for people with psychological issues.
take this example:
Crashing threw a crowded shopping mall with a truck, running over houndreds in the process would be an attrocity. Nobody who is right in their mind would do or even want to do something like that. Because there is such a thing as empathy.
In games like GTA or Saints Row players do something like that on a regular basis. This doesn't make tham Psychopaths, because they are well aware that they ramming pixels into pixels. They are aware no one is harmed and can enjoy it as a spectacle. Fantasy violence can be enjoyable without serious psychosis. If you are creeped out by that you have clearly not spent any attention to any entertainment put out in the last 4000 years or so.
Oh, and by the way: The point where people are unable to separate fantasy violence from real violence and/or take joy out of real violence would be one where we can talk psychosis.

[...] You are defending an advert that fails on every conceivable level to perform the functions expected of an advert and on top of that it has a truly disturbing ending shot.

The trailer had left many people looking forward to this game. So I would say the advert failed on any conceivable level. What was going on threwout the trailer seemed pretty clear to me and everyone I know.
Also: The ending shot is ment to be disturbing. It resembles an execution becaused it is supposed to resemble one. Oppressive/shady authorities, violent and ruthless police forces, general moral ambiguity, ludacrious crime rates, expendableness of human live and many other things are common setpieces of cyberpunk scenarios. Just look at Judge Dredd. This should not be news to you.

Snip

Now, this may be slightly off topic but I am interested anyways.

At first you can see just the normal parts of the woman, and then it slowly pans so that you can see the scythe- arms and bodies.
When I watched the trailer I thought it was more about the female representing beauty and the softer sides of humanity (as feminine characters usually do), and it being contrasted with the metal blades and bodies to show how the advancement in technology and such has corrupted this beauty and twisted the natural parts of humanity.
And I thought the people in complete black armor so that no skin or anything can be seen, who were firing their guns, was supposed to show the tougher, darker emotionless characters (representing the tough, cold but enduring aspects of humanity) terminating this corruption but sacrificing the beauty in the process.

What I was interested in was, what made you go to the Order vs. Chaos interpretation? Did it just come to your head or? IT was very well thought out.

Perhaps you could also take into account, that the beauty of the woman is supposedly achieved through cybernetics and plastic surgery, rendering the uncorrupted beauty somewhat an illusion.

 

[OniaPL]

Perhaps you could also take into account, that the beauty of the woman is supposedly achieved through cybernetics and plastic surgery, rendering the uncorrupted beauty somewhat an illusion.

I don't know if there is plastic surgery involved, but of course if there were it'd imply that the beauty is artificial and therefore surreal, but it'd change my view on the trailer as then I'd see it more as a generic mechs vs. men, a traditional evolutionary struggle.

 

[Woiminkle]

I find it hard to believe you are actually claiming videogames are designed for people with troubling psychological issues.

Really? given that a large volume of games make you a hero for killing hundreds if not thousands of fellow human beings (usually a minority).

So far I've always given the benefit of the doubt and assumed games are made by and designed for aggressively immature idiots who can't tell their ass from their elbow and aren't aware that actions speak volumes. It's much better than the thought that Joe Gamer is a deranged sociopath who's on the verge of shooting up a classroom.

Wow that's mighty big of you, Judgemental. Are you including yourself in this "benefit of the doubt" assessment of gamers? Your benefit of the doubt doesn't extend to people not really taking some of the content in a piece of interactive narrative fiction as seriously as you seem to? Does it not occur to you that people might be more worried about real world issues of sexism and racism and reserve their ire for those real injustices rather than imagined ones?
Are you even a gamer?

I think that is the wrong question you ask which is "Are you even a gamer"?

I think the proper question to ask is this because using the word "gamer" is a very loaded term with so many meanings now that it often creates more confusion.

So ask judge this, "Are video games one of your main hobbies you participate in your life, and if so how involved are you in the hobby of video games?"

We should recognize that video games are a hobby and having a healthy and long term understanding of the industry, the activist groups and members of the industry really does separate people who simply enjoy the activity and those who have it as a hobby. The same is applied to sports. You can enjoy the game like I do with my soon to be brother in law but he would know the players, the coaches and which team is the favorite. Two different levels which when asked this way brings a lot more clarity than your question which people can use as a way to get on their high horse.

Ok I take your point, but I tend to use the term gamer to mean somebody who enjoys playing video games with no allusion to interest level or "dedication" to it as a hobby.

 

[CorvusFerreum]

Perhaps you could also take into account, that the beauty of the woman is supposedly achieved through cybernetics and plastic surgery, rendering the uncorrupted beauty somewhat an illusion.

I don't know if there is plastic surgery involved, but of course if there were it'd imply that the beauty is artificial and therefore surreal, but it'd change my view on the trailer as then I'd see it more as a generic mechs vs. men, a traditional evolutionary struggle.

Since she is shown to be altered almost everywhere on her body (You can clearly see all limbs are indeed cybernetics and her skin is completely artificial.) I assume it is at least implied that her beauty is also artificial. But that's just my thought on it.

 

[DoPo]

I'm not critisizing anything harshly. I'm just saying what's there. I'm not the one singing the praises of an advert. And for the record, I know plenty of cyberpunk: Serial Experiments Lain, Ghost in the Shell, Matrix, Doctor Who, Neuromancer, Cowboy Bebop, etc... none of which feature scythes coming out of your forearms. I would understand out of your knuckles which makes prefect sense. Scythes out of your forearms sounds pretty stupid..

And actually, to be honest, I'm not even sure what piece of cyberware that IS if it's in Cyberpunk 2020 canon. It ain't Scratchers, it ain't Rippers, it ain't Monocutters, it's not a Cybersaw.

Crap, now I need to go sifting through old Chromebooks and Interface magazine PDF's to see....

It's supposed to 57 years in the future, though, isn't it? It could be some new tech. I dunno, however, I have yet to pick up the books. Been looking forward to it, though.

 

[Woiminkle]

Ok I take your point, but I tend to use the term gamer to mean somebody who enjoys playing video games with no allusion to interest level or "dedication" to it as a hobby.

Oh I completely know what you mean Woi, but honestly when people use the word "gamer" now it has been more of a marketing term than actually being able to describe oneself as a hobbyist of video games than anything else. Hell you can look on youtube and you can see how many people have basically exploited the word "gamer" to build up short term fame than actually say demonstrating knowledge of the hobby be it the games and background of the games or knowledge of said game, the various companies involved in making said game, or even knowing what the trade shows are for the industry.

But when people ask that question like the way you asked, it is like putting a golden eye remote mine under yourself and setting it off. Causes way too much backfire and often allows said person to play the victim and condemn others for being some "gatekeeper" when the reality is that most ask because they really want to know how much interest one actually has with said hobby.

Well I can't argue with any of that, it has become a bit of a loaded term and I would rather not have people sidestep the issue and focus on the topic at hand so I'll try to be clearer in future.

And I still would like to know if our friend here JudgeGame actually plays games as opposed to going out to look for things within games to get offended by.

 

[daveman247]

Do you want a solution? Stop doing it. There.

Stop doing bad game design? Oh...oh my god why didn't anyone think of this before? You sir are a genius, call every video game dev ever. The solution to 'bad game design' is to just stop doing it.

Haha, this made me chuckle


I believe this vid is relevant...


[youtube]watch?v=KR-OtYjWLB4[/youtube]

 

[Therumancer]

I found this piece on how the business and culture interact and perpetuate the really ugly side of videogames. I think it's worth a read and worth discussing.
[link]http://howtonotsuckatgamedesign.com/?p=8393[/link]

Meh, just an article full of liberal ranting that doesn't get it at all.

The bottom line to all of this contreversy is that it's a bunch of left wingers trying to get a platform to create contreversy where there is none. They take something like say the "Hitman: Absolution" trailer, and then claim people have a right to feel upset and marginalized by this portrayal of sexism, and demand a platform and to have this taken seriously when it's a giant joke. This coming from the SAME people who have spent years for pushing for women to be treated more fairly in games, and to get away from tropes like how men and women can't fight, and that inevitably for things to be "fair" you need to have a cat fight between the good girl and the bad girl. We saw plenty of girls kicking butt in games, but now when it comes to a situation where you have girls being treated just like anyone else and trashed by a dude, that's a problem. The basic arguement being that if some girl beats up a dozen guys brutally (like say some of the Catwoman scenes and trailers from Arkham City) but if a guy does it to a bunch of girls in a very similar situation it's a problem.... if you don't see why this is stupid, and why nobody takes people making complaints about things like the "Hitman: Absolution" trailer seriously, then you really have a problem.

In most cases these issues are incredibly straightforward like the above, as demonstrated by a simple case of role reversal and asking "would this be okay now?", noticing from media that was accepted or praised that it would be. Combine with with all the arguements about equality we got "yesterday" and you can see how it's all a bunch of platform trolling, it doesn't matter if your legitimate or not, pick a liberal issue, QQ, and you get attention and chaos to thrive on.

The gaming community for the most part has caught on, and 2012 was a year of great intolerance for lib-tard trolls. A point doubled down on this year so far, but actually doing things exactly in defiance of the trolls, to prove that they aren't fooling anyone, and will hopefully just shut up and go away.

I'll go so far as to say that the people defending these rants on sexistm, homophobia, etc... in games have gotten their fair share of flak because for the most part they seen to be after vicarious attention themselves, or so disconnected from reality that they just do not actually get what's going on.

Even attempted "rational" arguements like "well, look at this, can you see how someone could possibly be offended by it?" a Jim Sterling classic, fall on deaf ears to those with half a brain, because if you look back at the entire cosm of gaming, this is exactly what yesterday's liberal crusaders demanded that they wanted in many cases. Girls being treated just like everyone else for example. They get to throw, and take punches with the boys, and they don't always get to be coddled and rescued, being disabled with a light touch on the arm and dragged off, when a girl is defeated it's being presented more realistically, complete with the brutality that would have been reserved at one point soley for a male protaganist. Nobody cared when they electro-tortured Solid Snake, so why is it a big deal when a female protaganist finds herself in a similar situation. The answer is it's not. Those who think so are trolls, or morons
who are basically crying about getting EXACTLY what they asked for. Especially when you consider that for every portrayal being called "sexist" or "demeaning" your looking at plenty of other scenes in comparison of women doing all of the action stuff along with the bad stuff that comes with it, including scenes of women inflicting bone shattering violence on men. Hitman Absolution Vs. Catwoman in Arkham City, a gang of sexy nuns getting clobbered, vs. a bunch of beefcakes with unrealistically overdeveloped hunk-muscles (in many cases) getting clobbered. Same basic thing, exactly what was asked for, now shut up.

We're supposed to not put women on a pedestel and treat them like something special, yet not really since we should actually be putting them on a pedestel but pretending we're not? It's either sexism or patronizing, whichever way you go to a lib-troll your wrong, so it's a non-issue?

Likewise there have been attempts to sort of weaponize gaming as a political statement, that haven't gone the way lib-trolls have intended. People like to go off about the ToR "Gay Planet", but understand that homosexual content was something that Bioware was clear on saying they didn't want in the game. Creative freedom only being acceptable when it's what they want to see, you saw an outcry of entitlement based on previous games, Bioware relented for future consideration, and when it became possible threw the gay community a bone. Quite a nice gesture for what a minority prescence wanted. This was largely considered insufficient because gays had somehow gotten it into their mind that there was going to be some great influx of straight bashing, where all those "pesky homophobic norms" would be forced to endure gay flirting NPCs in their ship or whatever. Obviously that didn't happen, and common sense would dictate that as friendly as Bioware has been, they aren't going to slot off the majority for the sake of a minority. They handled it pretty tastefully and put it in a well known places where you could get it if you want it, but if it's not your cup of tea, nobody was going to force it on you... pretty similar to their other games actually, especially when you consider this was not intended and was being added entirely under duress for a very specific vocal minority of people.

It's less a case of marginalization, so much as a bunch of lib-trolls who were cheering for this (even if they weren't gay) didn't get what they wanted which was a giant trolling of the straight population at the hands of a gaming corperation. Criticisms about it being an *ahem* Gay Ghetto planet, seem to miss the entire point that this planet is exactly where all of the new content for the expansion is located, as new content, the gay stuff was added in with the rest of the new content, very simple, but never waste an oppertunity to troll for a platform is the motto of a good lib-troll.

At any rate, I'm sounding off about the issues and a lot of what was in that article, but the bottom line is that there is a lot more to this than "horrible behavior in the gaming industry". If you didn't notice it until you read the article, it's probably because there really isn't anything to notice. It's a bunch of people trying to make a big deal out of nothing, and then getting upset because the gaming community has generally not given them an unopposed platform to do it, and actually kind of brutally turned on those seeking a platform to cause trouble from, turning them into a joke.

Largely because if you've spent a long time pushing for a more equal representation of women in games for example, now that we're getting it accross the board, someone spitting in your face over it isn't going to go over well.

Likewise even if your support gay rights, there is a point at which people getting what they want but insisting it's not enough (it never is) just makes them a bunch of twits. You don't have to be anti-gay to think the people involved in the entire ToR thing are a bunch of ungrateful morons. What's more anyone with half a brain that DOES support gay rights knows that the kind of antagonistic content that some of these people were apparently pushing for would have had the opposite effect of trying to encourage co-existance. When people get a reasonable compromise in a situation like this (where Bioware didn't originally want it) they should be grateful, not screaming at the top of their lungs.

Personally I'm kind of hoping the lib-trolls put a sock in it. There are perhaps a few legitimate issues for non-trolling liberals to pursue... but not ones we've seen so far.


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Oh and one important addition for those who read this far. Understand that the arguement "Nobody wants to take your games away from you" made by people like Jim Sterling is also not true. The point of complaining about this kind of thing is so this content won't be produced anymore. That is taking your games, and what you find entertaining in them, away from you. This mostly comes up in regards to sexism. The arguements about things like "Hitman: Absolution" is that the "killer nuns" trailer is inherantly offensive, and should be accepted as such, because it glorifies violence against women, and that the industry shouldn't do things like that anymore. That's a slap in the face to those who championed yesterday's liberal causes, so things like this would happen. Overall it's a representation of the industry being non-patronizing, and having things go both ways. Girls kick butt on guys, guys kick butt on girls, everyone gets their time being brutalized and tortured, it's all a happy equal oppertunity circus of masochism. The central arguement amounts to how it's only okay for women to beat up men, and if a storyline requires something bad to happen to a girl she should be put up on a pedestel. Back to the old days of when the bad guys capture the girl, our former kung-fu superspy is suddenly powerless jelly in his hands, because we can't actually see her lose a fight and take a beating the the extent it would take to subdue someone like that (which would be brutal). The bad guy has to treat the girl like a princess and put her in luxur accomodations, no cool stuff like being brutally tortured, getting free after a while, killing the torturer, and then brutally clawing her way out of a dungeon... that's too mean. This all leads back to the whole "only girls can fight other girls" trope at the extreme other end I mentioned before. I'm repeting myself, but understand the end result here is that yes, lib-troll arguements are about taking your games away from you, and ultimatly undoing every bit of progress towards equality the industry has made.