Crytek Dev Backpedals on Used Games Hate

[Epona]

How is it wrong? you have yet to answer that.

Consumers who spend money on a product have a right to complain. This is fuckin' common sense that everyone but YOU seems to understand.

You have no right to sit on the platform and say "everything must conform to my preferences." Remember this is a LUXURY with ALTERNATIVES.

You seem to believe luxury items are exempt from criticism. You are wrong, that computer you are typing on is a luxury item and that internet you use to spread your anti-consumer nonsense, that's a luxury too. If it went out (we can wish) you would be complaining and to you I would I throw your own words back in your face. IT'S A LUXURY, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN.

Don't bother with how your computer and internet connection are exempt and you retain your rights to complain about them.

If we did have that right, we wouldn't have steam and PC gaming would be a dead relic along with MANY genres outside the FPS, action-RPG, and racing games. The company owns the platform, so it decides what to do. If we don't like it, we don't buy it. People STILL hate steam because they don't have CDs. Does that mean steam is "wrong" because of the complainers? Hell no.

WOW! You really believe this anti-consumer BS don't you.

Yes, people have the right to complain about Steam and they have been (as you admit to). Yet, Steam exists. Can you explain that?

Allow me to do it for you. People have the right to complain, Steam doesn't have to listen. It's so simple it might even work and MOST PEOPLE will understand it. Let's call it Freedom of Speech.

Complaining does nothing in the games industry. People ***** and complain but never do anything about it. Case in point, people complained about Modern Warfare, people still bought it. Game companies don't care if we complain, because they know that in the end they will still shell out 60$.

Well with that attitude you'll never change anything. Off the top of my head I remember people complaining about Xenoblade Chronicles not being released here and that complaining led to a petition which led to me playing it right now. Plan to be playing The Last Story in July too. Did you know that Dragon Quest IX was supposed to be an action RPG? Apparently the Japanese fans complained enough to make Square change it to turn based. I am sure there are many more examples but I only need two since you only provided one and really only one is needed to prove that first sentence of yours wrong.

Complaining does nothing, action does.

Action does nothing unless you tell someone why you didn't buy.

Its not so much "anti consumer" its more against the constant whining on a platform that is obviously monopolized. They still expect the companies to bend over backwards when they do nothing. They complain, but no action ever takes place.

Game companies don't take gamers seriously.

They failed when Modern Warfare took out the dedicated servers.
They failed at Left for Dead 2.
They failed at Portal 2.
They failed at Windows Live.
They (mostly) failed at Mass Effect 3.

The list goes on where gamers failed to act. They still head out and buy the games despite their protests. Even though they swear back and forth that they hate the company they still pay hard earned money to play it WELL in advance.

If you continue to pay, you consent.

The company will KNOW what happens when their profits go down 90%. If they change the formula and the profits go down, then the recent change is most likely blamed. You don't need to complain, because its almost guaranteed that they wont even bother to listen.

A complaint without action is just noise, and that's exactly whats coming from gamers, just a prolonged noise. If you continue to give money to a company when they consistently screw you over, its your own damn fault and have no right to complain.

Repeatedly buying from a company that screws you over time after time is like repeatedly buying curbstoned cars and saying the scammer is at fault and complaining after your 10th purchase. There is being burned on a purchase (which should be returned), and then there is just hypocrisy tempered with masochism.

Gamers show the latter consistently and they wonder why companies don't take them seriously.

also, if the internet did go out repeatedly, I wouldn't complain. I would go to another service that isn't incompetent. Complaining is just noise, only action has any weight.

You are misunderstanding my point, I am saying complaining is useless and NEVER heeded. Only action has merit. To complain serves no purpose, especially if you intentionally screw yourself over time after time.

There is having a valid criticism, and then there is complaining. Two very different things.

This is going in circles, we will have to agree to disagree.

In closing though, it is my view that the more complaining there is, the more people will become aware of certain problems and injustices. The more people who are aware, the more people who boycott and/or put pressure on corporations.

That's the thing, boycotting a service is an action. The same goes for putting pressure on a corporation. When gamers are unhappy, it turns into a Kony 2012-esque version of slacktivism where its easy to express dissatisfaction but they rarely go through with their threats.

slacktivism never actually works.

What gaming needs is actual movement, not cheap lip service. If gamers don't fight, then they can't win.

The difference between you and I is that I think complaining IS fighting.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

without used games, dedicated gaming shops' days are numbered because the only people who can afford games without used sales are box stores and the like, with less diversity, selection and accessories.

Physical stores are all but obsolete and will cease to exist fairly shortly. It's the same for every market and is why, for example, book and CD stores are rapidly vanishing, with only a select few of the biggest chains remaining in brick and mortar business. Music stores? Rare. DVD stores? All but extinct. Movie rental places? Even rarer still.

I couldn't care less about physical stores--either move with the times or be a victim of them. You don't get to cry foul after being run over due to you stubbornly refusing to move out of the way of an oncoming truck, despite seeing it from a mile away. 99% of my games library was purchased either directly from the creator (Torchlight, Minecraft, Terraria, The Eschalon series, etc.) or through digital distributes (The Old Republic, Battlefield 3, Audiosurf, Left4Dead, etc.). Same with my music collection.

Retailers are a useless middleman; so long as people are making games, I can buy directly from them (or their publisher) and hand my money straight to them. Less markup, easier and faster.

This just in: computers and the internet are kind of a big deal.

I love Steam, I love PSN and I love digital distribution when it's done right. Guess what though, without retailers you would be paying shipping on your consoles. Think before you type.

Um, you do know you pay shipping on your consoles now, right? The store buys the console from the factory and then marks it up to cover shipping, fuel, packaging, paying staff, paying bills and a little more to make money.

Maybe take your own advice and "Think before you type."

No, you are paying MSRP. When you have something shipped to you, you pay MSRP plus shipping.

I don't think you understand how shops work, sweetie.

See, stores buy the product from the manufacturer and then mark it up in price so they make money.

If you buy it directly from the manufacture, you save a lot of money. In fact, some industries have mark up of more than 100-200% (which means two to three times the cost).

For example, when I purchased my newest TV a few months ago, I went directly to the factory they are made at and ended up paying about $500 less than the lowest price I could find at any of the local shopping centers. I paid $30 postage (shipping).

No matter where you buy a console, it will cost the same. That is why Sony can run ads for the PS3 and give the price. TV's and game consoles don't work quite the same as far as retailers go. Did you know that retailers don't make much money off of console sales and the only reason they sell them at all is because people usually buy the games at the same place they buy the console. Games are where they make their money. You take away the game and they won't sell the consoles which take up alot of space for very little profit. They could fill that space with other things, like TV's.

Wait, wait, wait, you're telling me you understand what markup is and still think retail would be cheaper? Lol. I'll pay the $20 postage on a console if it saves the massive markup on video games. It's kind of what what PC gamers have been doing, for, oh, say five years--including me, who went to a store, bought the components I liked and built the computer myself to save the cash.

Retail stores = a middleman you pay.

Buy the game straight from the guy making it and save a fuckton.

You can't argue against facts, sweetheart.

 

[Epona]

without used games, dedicated gaming shops' days are numbered because the only people who can afford games without used sales are box stores and the like, with less diversity, selection and accessories.

Physical stores are all but obsolete and will cease to exist fairly shortly. It's the same for every market and is why, for example, book and CD stores are rapidly vanishing, with only a select few of the biggest chains remaining in brick and mortar business. Music stores? Rare. DVD stores? All but extinct. Movie rental places? Even rarer still.

I couldn't care less about physical stores--either move with the times or be a victim of them. You don't get to cry foul after being run over due to you stubbornly refusing to move out of the way of an oncoming truck, despite seeing it from a mile away. 99% of my games library was purchased either directly from the creator (Torchlight, Minecraft, Terraria, The Eschalon series, etc.) or through digital distributes (The Old Republic, Battlefield 3, Audiosurf, Left4Dead, etc.). Same with my music collection.

Retailers are a useless middleman; so long as people are making games, I can buy directly from them (or their publisher) and hand my money straight to them. Less markup, easier and faster.

This just in: computers and the internet are kind of a big deal.

I love Steam, I love PSN and I love digital distribution when it's done right. Guess what though, without retailers you would be paying shipping on your consoles. Think before you type.

Um, you do know you pay shipping on your consoles now, right? The store buys the console from the factory and then marks it up to cover shipping, fuel, packaging, paying staff, paying bills and a little more to make money.

Maybe take your own advice and "Think before you type."

No, you are paying MSRP. When you have something shipped to you, you pay MSRP plus shipping.

I don't think you understand how shops work, sweetie.

See, stores buy the product from the manufacturer and then mark it up in price so they make money.

If you buy it directly from the manufacture, you save a lot of money. In fact, some industries have mark up of more than 100-200% (which means two to three times the cost).

For example, when I purchased my newest TV a few months ago, I went directly to the factory they are made at and ended up paying about $500 less than the lowest price I could find at any of the local shopping centers. I paid $30 postage (shipping).

No matter where you buy a console, it will cost the same. That is why Sony can run ads for the PS3 and give the price. TV's and game consoles don't work quite the same as far as retailers go. Did you know that retailers don't make much money off of console sales and the only reason they sell them at all is because people usually buy the games at the same place they buy the console. Games are where they make their money. You take away the game and they won't sell the consoles which take up alot of space for very little profit. They could fill that space with other things, like TV's.

Wait, wait, wait, you're telling me you understand what markup is and still think retail would be cheaper? Lol. I'll pay the $20 postage on a console if it saves the massive markup on video games. It's kind of what what PC gamers have been doing, for, oh, say five years--including me, who went to a store, bought the components I liked and built the computer myself to save the cash.

Retail stores = a middleman you pay.

Buy the game straight from the guy making it and save a fuckton.

You can't argue against facts, sweetheart.

Are you for real? These are consoles, not PC's. You can't just buy the parts and put them together yourself.

Also, do you really believe that any savings the big three see will filter down to you? LOL...no...LMAO....no...LMFAO.

The big three are nothing like Steam. Look at the prices for downloadable versions of retail games on XBL and PSN.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

The difference between you and I is that I think complaining IS fighting.

Complaining on an internet forum does nothing. Not a single thing. Ziltch. The companies couldn't care less what you think. All that matter is how people spend their money. For example: people here love to hate on EA (it's the latest fad) but I'd put up $100 that more than ninety percent of the people complaining still purchase the next big game EA puts out. And you know what? EA love it.

 

[Epona]

The difference between you and I is that I think complaining IS fighting.

Complaining on an internet forum does nothing. Not a single thing. Ziltch. The companies couldn't care less what you think. All that matter is how people spend their money. For example: people here love to hate on EA (it's the latest fad) but I'd put up $100 that more than ninety percent of the people complaining still purchase the next big game EA puts out. And you know what? EA love it.

I'll just drop this here, it's from this very thread:

This of course has attracted the ire of the gaming public, who tend to be rather fond of their used games. Following some presumably less than kindhearted feedback from fans, Hojengaard has recanted. Today he issued the following clarification via CVG.

 

[Epona]

The difference between you and I is that I think complaining IS fighting.

Complaining on an internet forum does nothing. Not a single thing. Ziltch. The companies couldn't care less what you think. All that matter is how people spend their money. For example: people here love to hate on EA (it's the latest fad) but I'd put up $100 that more than ninety percent of the people complaining still purchase the next big game EA puts out. And you know what? EA love it.

I'll just drop this here, it's from this very thread:

This of course has attracted the ire of the gaming public, who tend to be rather fond of their used games. Following some presumably less than kindhearted feedback from fans, Hojengaard has recanted. Today he issued the following clarification via CVG.

He recanted cheap words. A minor "victory."

So gamers have .000001 victories with up to 5 losses.

Nice math, there.

You make up numbers and call it my math. We call that a strawman.

I am done.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

The big three are nothing like Steam. Look at the prices for downloadable versions of retail games on XBL and PSN.

Lolololol. You missed the point by so much it hurts to laugh.

Your idea: guy makes game, guy gives it to Sony, Sony sells it online and sells it to stores.

My idea: guy makes game, you buy game.

There's a reason it's so cheap to buy from Steam or straight from the developer--you aren't paying for multiple levels of markup on top of markup and the only games that don't see this huge decrease in cost are those also peddled in physical stores. Retail is a problem not a solution anymore.

The only argument that can possibly be made against purchasing directly from the creator is jobs; retail stores employ people to sell shit. But you know what? Tough. I'm not going to give you more money because you're running a business designed to gouge me as much as possible before I snap. With internet access and speeds soaring ever higher, the single use retail stores exist to serve is almost void--that is, they bring a selection of products to one place, so you don't have to run around. We've already seen book stores, music shops and DVD retailers fall of the cliff, now hanging on for dear life as they slowly fade. Not long it'll be video games' turn to make the leap to pure digital distribution.

You can deny it, you can fight it and you can hate it, but nothing will stop the digital future. I for one, will continue to reap the rewards of giving my money directly to the artists--cheaper prices, more profit for the people who deserve it and no middle man in my way.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

The difference between you and I is that I think complaining IS fighting.

Complaining on an internet forum does nothing. Not a single thing. Ziltch. The companies couldn't care less what you think. All that matter is how people spend their money. For example: people here love to hate on EA (it's the latest fad) but I'd put up $100 that more than ninety percent of the people complaining still purchase the next big game EA puts out. And you know what? EA love it.

I'll just drop this here, it's from this very thread:

This of course has attracted the ire of the gaming public, who tend to be rather fond of their used games. Following some presumably less than kindhearted feedback from fans, Hojengaard has recanted. Today he issued the following clarification via CVG.

He recanted cheap words. A minor "victory."

So gamers have .000001 victories with up to 5 losses.

Nice math, there.

You make up numbers and call it my math. We call that a strawman.

I am done.

What's the name of that company everyone says is "the worst company in America" on this forum? The one every other thread is created to flame? That group people like to say they "hate"?

Oh yeah! The same one that owns and publishes every single one of the highest selling video games in history. Funny how that works. EA sure is suffering in sales numbers due to all this internet forum rage, huh.

 

[Epona]

The big three are nothing like Steam. Look at the prices for downloadable versions of retail games on XBL and PSN.

Lolololol. You missed the point by so much it hurts to laugh.

Your idea: guy makes game, guy gives it to Sony, Sony sells it online and sells it to stores.

My idea: guy makes game, you buy game.

I'm going to let someone else explain to you how licensing works on consoles and why you can't just pay the developer directly.

What's the name of that company everyone says is "the worst company in America" on this forum? The one every other thread is created to flame? That group people like to say they "hate"?

Oh yeah! The same one that owns and publishes every single one of the highest selling video games in history. Funny how that works. EA sure is suffering in sales numbers due to all this internet forum rage, huh.

Wasn't there a thread not so long ago about some MMO company bidding to buy out EA or something? Yeah, they're doing fantastic.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Wasn't there a thread not so long ago about some MMO company bidding to buy out EA or something? Yeah, they're doing fantastic.

You mean that massive MMO company company (one of the largest in the world) which, as the article said numerous times, has only enough money to buy about 6% of EA.

lul

 

[Robert Ewing]

Looks as if his entire apology was tailored by a man in a suit to combat the bad PR his hatred toward used games generated.

C'mon Crytek, at least try and cover it up a little.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

The big three are nothing like Steam. Look at the prices for downloadable versions of retail games on XBL and PSN.

Lolololol. You missed the point by so much it hurts to laugh.

Your idea: guy makes game, guy gives it to Sony, Sony sells it online and sells it to stores.

My idea: guy makes game, you buy game.

There's a reason it's so cheap to buy from Steam or straight from the developer--you aren't paying for multiple levels of markup on top of markup and the only games that don't see this huge decrease in cost are those also peddled in physical stores. Retail is a problem not a solution anymore.

The only argument that can possibly be made against purchasing directly from the creator is jobs; retail stores employ people to sell shit. But you know what? Tough. I'm not going to give you more money because you're running a business designed to gouge me as much as possible before I snap. With internet access and speeds soaring ever higher, the single use retail stores exist to serve is almost void--that is, they bring a selection of products to one place, so you don't have to run around. We've already seen book stores, music shops and DVD retailers fall of the cliff, now hanging on for dear life as they slowly fade. Not long it'll be video games' turn to make the leap to pure digital distribution.

You can deny it, you can fight it and you can hate it, but nothing will stop the digital future. I for one, will continue to reap the rewards of giving my money directly to the artists--cheaper prices, more profit for the people who deserve it and no middle man in my way.

"but think of the jobs is such a weak excuse anyway."


Just think of the thousand of job types that disappeared over time.


like this one.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abtrittanbieter


AKA: the "hey wanna take a dump in my bucket?" guy.


so sad.

certain professions disappear over time, thats the way it goes. And the classic "middle" man in trade matters has long since overstayed his welcome in certain branches of trade - like digital goods.

Mmm. There was once a time when retail stores were a simple fact of life. But with the internet being what it is for so many people nowadays, going to a physical store and paying someone to sell you something for more money just makes no sense. Places like Gamestop, GAME, EB Games, etc., are just... pointless. When the internet becomes a little more universally available and the speeds are pushed a tad higher (especially in every country besides South Korea, China and the U.S.) the notion of retail stores will be utterly absurd to the coming generations.

Crytek?


whos tha... oh. OOOOH. The guys who keep making the same game over and over again?

You're thinking of Nintendo.

 

[Something Amyss]

Physical stores are all but obsolete and will cease to exist fairly shortly.

LOL.

It's adorable that you believe that. Considering that America, one of the biggest gaming nations, does not have the infrastructure to support digital distribution nationwide, that's a complete and utter farce.

I also don't know where you live that book stores and music stores are an endangered species, but this is not the case anywhere near me (the whole of New England, a bit south, and up into Canadia).

But at least we've gotten to the root of this frothing rage. You don't hate the used market, you just hate the physical market in general.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

It's adorable that you believe that.

Starting your rebuttal with an attempt to be condescending towards myself is a great way for me to instantly lose all interest in you and your opinion. Heads up.

 

[Mournblade94]

Hey to all the publishers and developers, I will stop buying used games for ever...if you can make it to where purchasing a new game doesn't leave me feeling irresponsible because I spent 60 dollars on a single form of entertainment solely for myself. If you can make it to where I can afford to buy new games without breaking my wallet, I'll swear off used games...but until then, that's the only way I can get more than maybe a couple of games a year.

Hi, my name is Steam, and almost everyday I have a special and have the most wonderful seasonal sales!

I don't like playing games on my PC. Plus, my little laptop doesn't play games well, in fact the only PC games I have is portal and the Sims.

I bought my consoles with the understanding that when I put in a game I know the hardware is exactly what I need to play the software and because the controller is easier on my hands and wrists.

I'm with you on this one. The only reason I still have a gaming PC is for games like medievaltotal war and civilization. I won't play any game released for console on the PC anymore and I used to be a dyed in the wool PC gamer. I am just sick of the system specs now. When I got a new game I used to have to spend 40 minutes dealing with system conflicts. Now with the console, there are no system conflicts. I can plug and play.

Much better deal since a console is cheaper than the video card alone.