Crytek Dev Backpedals on Used Games Hate

[Epona]

Hey to all the publishers and developers, I will stop buying used games for ever...if you can make it to where purchasing a new game doesn't leave me feeling irresponsible because I spent 60 dollars on a single form of entertainment solely for myself. If you can make it to where I can afford to buy new games without breaking my wallet, I'll swear off used games...but until then, that's the only way I can get more than maybe a couple of games a year.

Hi, my name is Steam, and almost everyday I have a special and have the most wonderful seasonal sales!

I don't like playing games on my PC. Plus, my little laptop doesn't play games well, in fact the only PC games I have is portal and the Sims.

I bought my consoles with the understanding that when I put in a game I know the hardware is exactly what I need to play the software and because the controller is easier on my hands and wrists.

Then you have no right to complain about their prices or practices. Consoles are not an open platform, its a corporate-built playground.

Their platform, their rules. Don't like those rules? Leave the platform.

I don't understand why people cant grasp this concept.

Yes, people who buy games and consoles and vacuum cleaners have every right to complain. People can't grasp your concept because it's wrong.

 

[FoolKiller]

Actually sale prices on new copies of games are routinely lower than the used price.

Which has more to do with the used game market being founded around gouging the consumer, and less so the occasional developer-supported sale on a relatively older release.

Everyone who has this issue needs to stop shopping at GameStop/EBgames.

This is the price scheme where I go:

NEW ===> USED
59.99 ===> 44.99
49.99 ===> 34.99
39.99 ===> 19.99 - 24.99
29.99 ===> 19.99
19.99 ===> 9.99 - 14.99

OT: I have bought quite a few new and quite a few used games. I buy what I want when I want at the price I feel that it is worth paying for. If I think a game is only worth 20, I will wait for either the new or used price to hit that mark. Eliminating the used games route will just mean I play fewer games and will be strictly PC gaming as I don't need a limited computer (console) to do that.

 

[Epona]

Then you have no right to complain about their prices or practices. Consoles are not an open platform, its a corporate-built playground.

Their platform, their rules. Don't like those rules? Leave the platform.

I don't understand why people cant grasp this concept.

Funny, it's almost as if you've never heard of 'consumer rights' and 'ethical business practises'.

Just because the games industry is a 'corporate playground', that doesn't give publishers the right to do anything they like. There are certain rules which across not only the games industry, but the industry of everything in general. Rules like "No insider trading", "No scamming people out of money for a non-existent product"... and funnily enough, allowing people to buy and sell used goods.

Being able to sell an item to someone else after you already bought it is a sign that you own that item, and are transferring ownership to someone else. And no matter how much they try, publishers have yet to prove that EULA's grant them full ownership of a game and give gamers only a license to play them.

Gaming corporations can do whatever they like as long as they stay within the rules of ethical trading. Once they start breaching those rules however, like by trying to get rid of second-hand sales, then expect them to be hit with a massive uproar and a slap from the legal system.

Yet ownership of data is not the same. When a company sells you a disc, its just a disc. The data inside is not yours, you cant copy it and post it online. The used game sale idea is sketchy at best because every other industry uses it. Companies are doing away with the disc, and just going with the clearer download method.

They are not obligated to SELL a disc. They can sell wherever they damn well please. If they didn't, Steam and origin wouldn't exist and PC gaming along with many genres would be a literal dead relics.

Limiting used games would mean PC gaming-like DRM like steam or access codes. Hardly "world ending."

Why is that people believe that ownership = no restrictions?

You own your car but there are restrictions. You cannot use it to kill people, damage property that isn't yours or other things. I own my Wii games but there are restrictions to that, reselling them isn't one of those restrictions.

Also, what is this nonsense about not owning the data. Just some way for software makers to confuse the issue. What next, you don't own the words in a book you bought? LOL. What ridiculous nonsense.

 

[Epona]

The same way you "buy" an subscription-based MMO. Do you own the data and have a right to use it? No, its a subscription based product, just like an antivirus. The same would go for video games if they decide to go with the DRM route, which they most likely will.

MMO's need a server to work. You don't have to use official servers though. You can continue to use the anti-virus/MMO product, you just don't get new updates/use official servers after your subscription ends.

How is it wrong? Its a luxury, if you don't like what the company does then you are not FORCED to pay. You have the freedom to move to another platform at any time. However, if you still willingly stay in the platform you don't like, its your fault.

Luxury or not, consumers still have a right to complain.

For example, I hate what EA is doing with Origin but I know that no one is forcing me to pay and I avoid it. I hate this double standard when it comes to this debate. When a PC gamer complains, people say he is an entitled elitist. When a console gamer complains, people say he is an innocent victim.

You won't find me calling anyone "entitled". In fact, I hate the term altogether. This is an industry that offers no refunds for unhappy customers, they deserve all the bitching they get.

Companies have a choice on what to do with their product, and you have a choice on whether or not to stay. If you choose to stay, then you are consenting to their actions. Simple as.

Not simple as at all. Consumers also have the right to complain. Most products can be returned for a full refund, games cannot and for that reason the only recourse consumers have (for products they already bought) is to complain.

Simply refusing to buy from Nintendo isn't enough, how do you expect Nintendo to know what you didn't like if you don't complain?

Seriously, if the thought that consumers have no right to complain ever enters your mind again, I hope you will remember that the thought is wrong.

 

[Farther than stars]

He went on to add that it's "weird that [second-hand] is still allowed because it doesn't work like that in any other software industries, so it would be great if they could somehow fix that issue as well."

Well, if you want to broaden the picture then why not blow it up to all industries? Oh, I remember why, because then you'll find that software companies are the odd one out and this practise of blocking used games is the problem that needs to be irradicated.
You know, a short while ago I found an old copy of Eternal Darkness for the GameCbe lying on the selves and was able to buy the used game for 5 quid (bucks if you live in the U.S.) and that was great. To be able to get a classic gem like that, even after so many years.
But that won't be possible in the future if this trend continues to progress. So this isn't only a business issue, it's also an issue of preserving gaming's collective archive.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

without used games, dedicated gaming shops' days are numbered because the only people who can afford games without used sales are box stores and the like, with less diversity, selection and accessories.

Physical stores are all but obsolete and will cease to exist fairly shortly. It's the same for every market and is why, for example, book and CD stores are rapidly vanishing, with only a select few of the biggest chains remaining in brick and mortar business. Music stores? Rare. DVD stores? All but extinct. Movie rental places? Even rarer still.

I couldn't care less about physical stores--either move with the times or be a victim of them. You don't get to cry foul after being run over due to you stubbornly refusing to move out of the way of an oncoming truck, despite seeing it from a mile away. 99% of my games library was purchased either directly from the creator (Torchlight, Minecraft, Terraria, The Eschalon series, etc.) or through digital distributes (The Old Republic, Battlefield 3, Audiosurf, Left4Dead, etc.). Same with my music collection.

Retailers are a useless middleman; so long as people are making games, I can buy directly from them (or their publisher) and hand my money straight to them. Less markup, easier and faster.

This just in: computers and the internet are kind of a big deal.

 

[Epona]

How is it wrong? you have yet to answer that.

Consumers who spend money on a product have a right to complain. This is fuckin' common sense that everyone but YOU seems to understand.

You have no right to sit on the platform and say "everything must conform to my preferences." Remember this is a LUXURY with ALTERNATIVES.

You seem to believe luxury items are exempt from criticism. You are wrong, that computer you are typing on is a luxury item and that internet you use to spread your anti-consumer nonsense, that's a luxury too. If it went out (we can wish) you would be complaining and to you I would I throw your own words back in your face. IT'S A LUXURY, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN.

Don't bother with how your computer and internet connection are exempt and you retain your rights to complain about them.

If we did have that right, we wouldn't have steam and PC gaming would be a dead relic along with MANY genres outside the FPS, action-RPG, and racing games. The company owns the platform, so it decides what to do. If we don't like it, we don't buy it. People STILL hate steam because they don't have CDs. Does that mean steam is "wrong" because of the complainers? Hell no.

WOW! You really believe this anti-consumer BS don't you.

Yes, people have the right to complain about Steam and they have been (as you admit to). Yet, Steam exists. Can you explain that?

Allow me to do it for you. People have the right to complain, Steam doesn't have to listen. It's so simple it might even work and MOST PEOPLE will understand it. Let's call it Freedom of Speech.

Complaining does nothing in the games industry. People ***** and complain but never do anything about it. Case in point, people complained about Modern Warfare, people still bought it. Game companies don't care if we complain, because they know that in the end they will still shell out 60$.

Well with that attitude you'll never change anything. Off the top of my head I remember people complaining about Xenoblade Chronicles not being released here and that complaining led to a petition which led to me playing it right now. Plan to be playing The Last Story in July too. Did you know that Dragon Quest IX was supposed to be an action RPG? Apparently the Japanese fans complained enough to make Square change it to turn based. I am sure there are many more examples but I only need two since you only provided one and really only one is needed to prove that first sentence of yours wrong.

Complaining does nothing, action does.

Action does nothing unless you tell someone why you didn't buy.

 

[Epona]

without used games, dedicated gaming shops' days are numbered because the only people who can afford games without used sales are box stores and the like, with less diversity, selection and accessories.

Physical stores are all but obsolete and will cease to exist fairly shortly. It's the same for every market and is why, for example, book and CD stores are rapidly vanishing, with only a select few of the biggest chains remaining in brick and mortar business. Music stores? Rare. DVD stores? All but extinct. Movie rental places? Even rarer still.

I couldn't care less about physical stores--either move with the times or be a victim of them. You don't get to cry foul after being run over due to you stubbornly refusing to move out of the way of an oncoming truck, despite seeing it from a mile away. 99% of my games library was purchased either directly from the creator (Torchlight, Minecraft, Terraria, The Eschalon series, etc.) or through digital distributes (The Old Republic, Battlefield 3, Audiosurf, Left4Dead, etc.). Same with my music collection.

Retailers are a useless middleman; so long as people are making games, I can buy directly from them (or their publisher) and hand my money straight to them. Less markup, easier and faster.

This just in: computers and the internet are kind of a big deal.

I love Steam, I love PSN and I love digital distribution when it's done right. Guess what though, without retailers you would be paying shipping on your consoles. Think before you type.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

without used games, dedicated gaming shops' days are numbered because the only people who can afford games without used sales are box stores and the like, with less diversity, selection and accessories.

Physical stores are all but obsolete and will cease to exist fairly shortly. It's the same for every market and is why, for example, book and CD stores are rapidly vanishing, with only a select few of the biggest chains remaining in brick and mortar business. Music stores? Rare. DVD stores? All but extinct. Movie rental places? Even rarer still.

I couldn't care less about physical stores--either move with the times or be a victim of them. You don't get to cry foul after being run over due to you stubbornly refusing to move out of the way of an oncoming truck, despite seeing it from a mile away. 99% of my games library was purchased either directly from the creator (Torchlight, Minecraft, Terraria, The Eschalon series, etc.) or through digital distributes (The Old Republic, Battlefield 3, Audiosurf, Left4Dead, etc.). Same with my music collection.

Retailers are a useless middleman; so long as people are making games, I can buy directly from them (or their publisher) and hand my money straight to them. Less markup, easier and faster.

This just in: computers and the internet are kind of a big deal.

I love Steam, I love PSN and I love digital distribution when it's done right. Guess what though, without retailers you would be paying shipping on your consoles. Think before you type.

Um, you do know you pay shipping on your consoles now, right? The store buys the console from the factory and then marks it up to cover shipping, fuel, packaging, paying staff, paying bills and a little more to make money.

Maybe take your own advice and "Think before you type."

 

[Epona]

without used games, dedicated gaming shops' days are numbered because the only people who can afford games without used sales are box stores and the like, with less diversity, selection and accessories.

Physical stores are all but obsolete and will cease to exist fairly shortly. It's the same for every market and is why, for example, book and CD stores are rapidly vanishing, with only a select few of the biggest chains remaining in brick and mortar business. Music stores? Rare. DVD stores? All but extinct. Movie rental places? Even rarer still.

I couldn't care less about physical stores--either move with the times or be a victim of them. You don't get to cry foul after being run over due to you stubbornly refusing to move out of the way of an oncoming truck, despite seeing it from a mile away. 99% of my games library was purchased either directly from the creator (Torchlight, Minecraft, Terraria, The Eschalon series, etc.) or through digital distributes (The Old Republic, Battlefield 3, Audiosurf, Left4Dead, etc.). Same with my music collection.

Retailers are a useless middleman; so long as people are making games, I can buy directly from them (or their publisher) and hand my money straight to them. Less markup, easier and faster.

This just in: computers and the internet are kind of a big deal.

I love Steam, I love PSN and I love digital distribution when it's done right. Guess what though, without retailers you would be paying shipping on your consoles. Think before you type.

Um, you do know you pay shipping on your consoles now, right? The store buys the console from the factory and then marks it up to cover shipping, fuel, packaging, paying staff, paying bills and a little more to make money.

Maybe take your own advice and "Think before you type."

No, you are paying MSRP. When you have something shipped to you, you pay MSRP plus shipping.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

without used games, dedicated gaming shops' days are numbered because the only people who can afford games without used sales are box stores and the like, with less diversity, selection and accessories.

Physical stores are all but obsolete and will cease to exist fairly shortly. It's the same for every market and is why, for example, book and CD stores are rapidly vanishing, with only a select few of the biggest chains remaining in brick and mortar business. Music stores? Rare. DVD stores? All but extinct. Movie rental places? Even rarer still.

I couldn't care less about physical stores--either move with the times or be a victim of them. You don't get to cry foul after being run over due to you stubbornly refusing to move out of the way of an oncoming truck, despite seeing it from a mile away. 99% of my games library was purchased either directly from the creator (Torchlight, Minecraft, Terraria, The Eschalon series, etc.) or through digital distributes (The Old Republic, Battlefield 3, Audiosurf, Left4Dead, etc.). Same with my music collection.

Retailers are a useless middleman; so long as people are making games, I can buy directly from them (or their publisher) and hand my money straight to them. Less markup, easier and faster.

This just in: computers and the internet are kind of a big deal.

I love Steam, I love PSN and I love digital distribution when it's done right. Guess what though, without retailers you would be paying shipping on your consoles. Think before you type.

Um, you do know you pay shipping on your consoles now, right? The store buys the console from the factory and then marks it up to cover shipping, fuel, packaging, paying staff, paying bills and a little more to make money.

Maybe take your own advice and "Think before you type."

No, you are paying MSRP. When you have something shipped to you, you pay MSRP plus shipping.

I don't think you understand how shops work, sweetie.

See, stores buy the product from the manufacturer and then mark it up in price so they make money.

If you buy it directly from the manufacture, you save a lot of money. In fact, some industries have mark up of more than 100-200% (which means two to three times the cost).

For example, when I purchased my newest TV a few months ago, I went directly to the factory they are made at and ended up paying about $500 less than the lowest price I could find at any of the local shopping centers. I paid $30 postage (shipping).

 

[Epona]

without used games, dedicated gaming shops' days are numbered because the only people who can afford games without used sales are box stores and the like, with less diversity, selection and accessories.

Physical stores are all but obsolete and will cease to exist fairly shortly. It's the same for every market and is why, for example, book and CD stores are rapidly vanishing, with only a select few of the biggest chains remaining in brick and mortar business. Music stores? Rare. DVD stores? All but extinct. Movie rental places? Even rarer still.

I couldn't care less about physical stores--either move with the times or be a victim of them. You don't get to cry foul after being run over due to you stubbornly refusing to move out of the way of an oncoming truck, despite seeing it from a mile away. 99% of my games library was purchased either directly from the creator (Torchlight, Minecraft, Terraria, The Eschalon series, etc.) or through digital distributes (The Old Republic, Battlefield 3, Audiosurf, Left4Dead, etc.). Same with my music collection.

Retailers are a useless middleman; so long as people are making games, I can buy directly from them (or their publisher) and hand my money straight to them. Less markup, easier and faster.

This just in: computers and the internet are kind of a big deal.

I love Steam, I love PSN and I love digital distribution when it's done right. Guess what though, without retailers you would be paying shipping on your consoles. Think before you type.

Um, you do know you pay shipping on your consoles now, right? The store buys the console from the factory and then marks it up to cover shipping, fuel, packaging, paying staff, paying bills and a little more to make money.

Maybe take your own advice and "Think before you type."

No, you are paying MSRP. When you have something shipped to you, you pay MSRP plus shipping.

I don't think you understand how shops work, sweetie.

See, stores buy the product from the manufacturer and then mark it up in price so they make money.

If you buy it directly from the manufacture, you save a lot of money. In fact, some industries have mark up of more than 100-200% (which means two to three times the cost).

For example, when I purchased my newest TV a few months ago, I went directly to the factory they are made at and ended up paying about $500 less than the lowest price I could find at any of the local shopping centers. I paid $30 postage (shipping).

No matter where you buy a console, it will cost the same. That is why Sony can run ads for the PS3 and give the price. TV's and game consoles don't work quite the same as far as retailers go. Did you know that retailers don't make much money off of console sales and the only reason they sell them at all is because people usually buy the games at the same place they buy the console. Games are where they make their money. You take away the game and they won't sell the consoles which take up alot of space for very little profit. They could fill that space with other things, like TV's.

 

[Epona]

How is it wrong? you have yet to answer that.

Consumers who spend money on a product have a right to complain. This is fuckin' common sense that everyone but YOU seems to understand.

You have no right to sit on the platform and say "everything must conform to my preferences." Remember this is a LUXURY with ALTERNATIVES.

You seem to believe luxury items are exempt from criticism. You are wrong, that computer you are typing on is a luxury item and that internet you use to spread your anti-consumer nonsense, that's a luxury too. If it went out (we can wish) you would be complaining and to you I would I throw your own words back in your face. IT'S A LUXURY, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN.

Don't bother with how your computer and internet connection are exempt and you retain your rights to complain about them.

If we did have that right, we wouldn't have steam and PC gaming would be a dead relic along with MANY genres outside the FPS, action-RPG, and racing games. The company owns the platform, so it decides what to do. If we don't like it, we don't buy it. People STILL hate steam because they don't have CDs. Does that mean steam is "wrong" because of the complainers? Hell no.

WOW! You really believe this anti-consumer BS don't you.

Yes, people have the right to complain about Steam and they have been (as you admit to). Yet, Steam exists. Can you explain that?

Allow me to do it for you. People have the right to complain, Steam doesn't have to listen. It's so simple it might even work and MOST PEOPLE will understand it. Let's call it Freedom of Speech.

Complaining does nothing in the games industry. People ***** and complain but never do anything about it. Case in point, people complained about Modern Warfare, people still bought it. Game companies don't care if we complain, because they know that in the end they will still shell out 60$.

Well with that attitude you'll never change anything. Off the top of my head I remember people complaining about Xenoblade Chronicles not being released here and that complaining led to a petition which led to me playing it right now. Plan to be playing The Last Story in July too. Did you know that Dragon Quest IX was supposed to be an action RPG? Apparently the Japanese fans complained enough to make Square change it to turn based. I am sure there are many more examples but I only need two since you only provided one and really only one is needed to prove that first sentence of yours wrong.

Complaining does nothing, action does.

Action does nothing unless you tell someone why you didn't buy.

Its not so much "anti consumer" its more against the constant whining on a platform that is obviously monopolized. They still expect the companies to bend over backwards when they do nothing. They complain, but no action ever takes place.

Game companies don't take gamers seriously.

They failed when Modern Warfare took out the dedicated servers.
They failed at Left for Dead 2.
They failed at Portal 2.
They failed at Windows Live.
They (mostly) failed at Mass Effect 3.

The list goes on where gamers failed to act. They still head out and buy the games despite their protests. Even though they swear back and forth that they hate the company they still pay hard earned money to play it WELL in advance.

If you continue to pay, you consent.

The company will KNOW what happens when their profits go down 90%. If they change the formula and the profits go down, then the recent change is most likely blamed. You don't need to complain, because its almost guaranteed that they wont even bother to listen.

A complaint without action is just noise, and that's exactly whats coming from gamers, just a prolonged noise. If you continue to give money to a company when they consistently screw you over, its your own damn fault and have no right to complain.

Repeatedly buying from a company that screws you over time after time is like repeatedly buying curbstoned cars and saying the scammer is at fault and complaining after your 10th purchase. There is being burned on a purchase (which should be returned), and then there is just hypocrisy tempered with masochism.

Gamers show the latter consistently and they wonder why companies don't take them seriously.

also, if the internet did go out repeatedly, I wouldn't complain. I would go to another service that isn't incompetent. Complaining is just noise, only action has any weight.

You are misunderstanding my point, I am saying complaining is useless and NEVER heeded. Only action has merit. To complain serves no purpose, especially if you intentionally screw yourself over time after time.

There is having a valid criticism, and then there is complaining. Two very different things.

This is going in circles, we will have to agree to disagree.

In closing though, it is my view that the more complaining there is, the more people will become aware of certain problems and injustices. The more people who are aware, the more people who boycott and/or put pressure on corporations.