Crytek Dev Backpedals on Used Games Hate

[Nargleblarg]

People who buy used games are generally leaches on the industry, supporting retailers and not publishers or, more importantly, the artists.

I'd have zero problem with a used-copy-block type deal on consoles.

Oh please. Used sales work in EVERY OTHER INDUSTRY ON THE PLANET.

Why should games be any different?

The library hasn't killed the book industry.

The yard sale hasn't killed anything yet.

I don't remember craigslist causing an entire industry to collapse.

Same goes for eBay, where I get most of my games USED.

Exercising the rights to use a free market does not make a person evil. IT MAKES THEM SMART!

The above is completely true. Honestly the publishers have done it to themselves; they created a niche market that boomed solely due to the price point of games being too high. (Example: this is why Steam F***ing works)

The problem is that there isn't a clear price point on a creative work like a game but the industry as a whole decided to just throw a price sticker of $60 (US) on games. That is a massive amount of money when you consider on average a gamer buys maybe 10 or so games per year. There is also the issue of risk when buying a new game because quality control in the industry completely fails and used games takes away that risk

Quite simply if a company or publisher cannot understand their market and evolve to meet their customers needs they will and deserve to die; this is economics 101. This is Capitalism.

Spoiler

 

[medv4380]

With the PS3 disk, you're actually legally allowed to download an ISO (read: exact copy) of the disc data and create a new one. The problem is that the developer is not obligated to provide you with an ISO, and uploading/sharing the data is technically illegal. You can legally make back-up copies of your disc-based games and use those infinitely however.

Not in the US. The DMCA prevents it and is the basis of the lawsuit against Kaleidescape and their DVD copy system. All that does it make a bit for bit copy, and they haven't won any case yet. We'll see if they make it to the US Supreme Court, but if I can't make a legal bit for bit copy of a DVD without violating the DMCA then I sure can't make a copy of a BluRay PS3 Game Disk.

If the Game didn't have any copy protection then it would be legal, but the moment they put any level of copy protection onto it then you cannot legally copy it.

 

[ScruffyMcBalls]

Have game distributors give a percentage cut back to the developer per unit sale. Problem solved, now fuck off and leave my game collection alone. And while we're at it, lower the bloated salaries in the industry and put a to stop ineffective marketing campaigns and wasteful spending in general, then maybe you'll have a foot to stand on when you ***** and whine about used games causing financial problems. Next problem internet, please.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

I love when people say "used game sales hurt the industry." because it's got to be the stupidest thing ever said by people currently listening to albums they pirated.

You know why it's stupid? Because they don't hurt anyone but the publisher, and not really even hurt them that much. It's about as damaging as getting a shot from the doctors relative to a gun shot wound.

What a lot of people don't realize is, "new" games are being factory produced for about three months after launch. The obvious exceptions here are Call of Duty games and a few others such as Mass Effect, Fable, and Halo, but that's relatively it. So, if you don't have the bank to buy a brand new game the first few months of launch, your only choice is to get it used.

What people also seem to think, because EC worded it completely incorrectly, is that a publisher NEVER gets your money. Ever. If you go to GameStop, and whether you buy a game new or used, the publisher never eyes that money. What the publisher sees is the money GameStop gives them to send copies of the game. What publishers yack on about is that because of used game sales, they don/t get usually more than the initial order. Side note: Developers don't see ANY of that money mentioned above. Developers are paid during the development of the game and contract bonuses, usually related to MetaCritic scores and reaching a million new copies sold.

With the info given above, you might think that would mean if consoles made it impossible to play a used game, it would drive up orders after the initial launch and keep the game new and in the cycle of sales. Sadly, that isn't the case. What people forget is: game consoles die. They go out of production and stop making new games. But they can be immortal through their legacy. Think about this, what if the NES had the power to block used games? That would mean people looking into getting a legitimate NES console would not be able to play any games on it. At all. They'd only be limited to games of the person they bought the console from. games go out of print and it makes it impossible to get new copies after a certain time, even if the lack of used games would allow new copies to get on store shelves. I know you're probably thinking it's not a big deal, the NES was a long time ago. Eventually, so will the Xbox 360, the PS3, and Wii. Eventually, these new systems will stop having games be printed. And then you're stuck with what you bought in that generation. Nothing else. If you don't see the reality of this, think about how hard it is now to find a new PS2 game.... How long ago was that?

Furthermore, what happened to the joys of going over to a friend's house and showing off your new game?

I hope there's a logical human being who'll read this and feel maybe a little more educated as to why hating on GameStop is the worst thing to do as a fan of video games. Do video games want to be an entertainment medium like music or movies or do they want to be Adobe and Microsoft Office? Only time will tell, and allowing used game sales has everything to do with that question. If they choose, the latter, we can no longer say video games are art. They're software.

Edit: Oh, and going full digital won't solve anything. Servers shut down eventually. All of them.

Now, $20 says no one reads this post because it's too educational and long.

 

[luckshot]

i call bullshit on him not meaning it seriously

and as for it being good for the industry...used games get new people into developers and series. for me i picked up a copy of morrowind for xbox for $10, because i enjoyed that game i purchased oblivion, skyrim and other games by bethseda new...so stopping used game sales forces fans of the series (the ppl most likely to buy the game new) to buy new, and discourages curious unlookers from getting into the game

so stopping used sales a good way to keep your brand from growing long term

edit: DigitalAtlas id say i want the money but at least it was worth reading

 

[Akimoto]

Me suspects publicity. Why?

Remember ME1 and that alien sex thing? Free publicity in the newspapers. In fact with people coming out and imposing their belief very strongly on the subject, it made gamers all the more interested.

MW2/3. Nuclear bombs, killing innocents for apparently no reason etc.. Again, free publicity in the news.

GTA. Enough said.

I don't think developers are that stupid. It could be an attempt - albeit very lame - to keep our interest in their games. "Oh, they wanted to [insert bad stuff] but they listened to us in the end so it's not that bad". They're betting on gamers to think this way I'm sure. Remember, some big time devs see a threat in games like Angry Birds. Put in their desperate shoes and with a bad economy, I might pull the same schtick.

What does Escapists think?

 

[Syzygy23]

David Braben (of Elite fame), claims it's killing off single player games

After seeing the news that they're adding multiplayer to the next God of War, I am inclined to agree with at least this claim. Adding multiplayer gives an excuse to include an online pass, and thus fuck anyone who buys it used. Now excuse me while I go mow down some hapless npc's in Saints Row 2 until my eyes uncross from the nerd rage I'm currently experiencing.

 

[Killing_Time]

Here's my solution to this problem. A sort of compromise if you will.

Make the next generation consoles game download only. You can buy games as codes in brick and mortar stores, but they'll just be some kind of redemption code for the game. Most people have internet, a ridiculously large amount of people play games online. So it would alienate probably only a very small market. Or you could even have some way of downloading the game in the store via some kind of memory unit that comes with the console (think DS hotspot downloads at GS). But all this would fail if the console companies kept prices fixed instead of having near constant sales like Steam, Origin, Gamestop and Amazon (which I fear they would).

I recently switched to PC gaming and I love how easy and convenient digital game purchasing is. Plus it's very efficient. There's no manufacturing cost, no shipping costs, no middle man taking their cut and it's convenient for the consumer. I also like the fact that it could bankrupt greedy companies like Gamestop. Their used game scam is terrible. I've seen them take a $60 game, buy it from someone for $20, then resell it for $55! The poor victim could have easily made twice that much selling it online.

It's too bad that Sony and Microsoft wont't try a solution like the one I described. They seem to have it out for customers that want to buy digital games. They rarely go down in price and often stay that way indefinitely. Oh well, not my problem I'm a PC gamer and stores like Steam are affordable and easy. I guess console gaming will always suffer because it's a closed market.

 

[shrekfan246]

I love when people say "used game sales hurt the industry." because it's got to be the stupidest thing ever said by people currently listening to albums they pirated.

You know why it's stupid? Because they don't hurt anyone but the publisher, and not really even hurt them that much. It's about as damaging as getting a shot from the doctors relative to a gun shot wound.

What a lot of people don't realize is, "new" games are being factory produced for about three months after launch. The obvious exceptions here are Call of Duty games and a few others such as Mass Effect, Fable, and Halo, but that's relatively it. So, if you don't have the bank to buy a brand new game the first few months of launch, your only choice is to get it used.

What people also seem to think, because EC worded it completely incorrectly, is that a publisher NEVER gets your money. Ever. If you go to GameStop, and whether you buy a game new or used, the publisher never eyes that money. What the publisher sees is the money GameStop gives them to send copies of the game. What publishers yack on about is that because of used game sales, they don/t get usually more than the initial order. Side note: Developers don't see ANY of that money mentioned above. Developers are paid during the development of the game and contract bonuses, usually related to MetaCritic scores and reaching a million new copies sold.

With the info given above, you might think that would mean if consoles made it impossible to play a used game, it would drive up orders after the initial launch and keep the game new and in the cycle of sales. Sadly, that isn't the case. What people forget is: game consoles die. They go out of production and stop making new games. But they can be immortal through their legacy. Think about this, what if the NES had the power to block used games? That would mean people looking into getting a legitimate NES console would not be able to play any games on it. At all. They'd only be limited to games of the person they bought the console from. games go out of print and it makes it impossible to get new copies after a certain time, even if the lack of used games would allow new copies to get on store shelves. I know you're probably thinking it's not a big deal, the NES was a long time ago. Eventually, so will the Xbox 360, the PS3, and Wii. Eventually, these new systems will stop having games be printed. And then you're stuck with what you bought in that generation. Nothing else. If you don't see the reality of this, think about how hard it is now to find a new PS2 game.... How long ago was that?

Furthermore, what happened to the joys of going over to a friend's house and showing off your new game?

I hope there's a logical human being who'll read this and feel maybe a little more educated as to why hating on GameStop is the worst thing to do as a fan of video games. Do video games want to be an entertainment medium like music or movies or do they want to be Adobe and Microsoft Office? Only time will tell, and allowing used game sales has everything to do with that question. If they choose, the latter, we can no longer say video games are art. They're software.

Edit: Oh, and going full digital won't solve anything. Servers shut down eventually. All of them.

Now, $20 says no one reads this post because it's too educational and long.

I've said all of these things time and time again and trust me, I know how you feel. It's like people really believe that game developers work pro bono during the ~2 year development time for an average video game, just praying that they'll be paid after release.

I also love the "Gamestop should just die!" comments, because they are so staggeringly ignorant that I can't even comprehend what they must be thinking. I believe the old saying is "Better the evil you know, than the one you don't." Sure, more and more things are moving digital these days, but I seriously doubt physical copies are going to disappear anytime soon and if Gamestop crumbles, what's to stop a worse retail chain from looming up out of the rubble? Gamestop isn't even that bad; The entire used games thing is practically the only thing keeping them afloat. They don't make hardly any profit off of new games.

People on this website like to talk about how much they love going back to games like Baldur's Gate, Final Fantasy VI, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Half-Life 2, Deus Ex, and so on. In ten years' time or so, how do you think you'll be able to play any of those games anymore if, god forbid, your copy stops working? It's highly likely that they won't be distributed on any download service anymore, you won't be able to find a physical copy in any store, so what does that leave you with?

 

[DigitalAtlas]

I love when people say "used game sales hurt the industry." because it's got to be the stupidest thing ever said by people currently listening to albums they pirated.

You know why it's stupid? Because they don't hurt anyone but the publisher, and not really even hurt them that much. It's about as damaging as getting a shot from the doctors relative to a gun shot wound.

What a lot of people don't realize is, "new" games are being factory produced for about three months after launch. The obvious exceptions here are Call of Duty games and a few others such as Mass Effect, Fable, and Halo, but that's relatively it. So, if you don't have the bank to buy a brand new game the first few months of launch, your only choice is to get it used.

What people also seem to think, because EC worded it completely incorrectly, is that a publisher NEVER gets your money. Ever. If you go to GameStop, and whether you buy a game new or used, the publisher never eyes that money. What the publisher sees is the money GameStop gives them to send copies of the game. What publishers yack on about is that because of used game sales, they don/t get usually more than the initial order. Side note: Developers don't see ANY of that money mentioned above. Developers are paid during the development of the game and contract bonuses, usually related to MetaCritic scores and reaching a million new copies sold.

With the info given above, you might think that would mean if consoles made it impossible to play a used game, it would drive up orders after the initial launch and keep the game new and in the cycle of sales. Sadly, that isn't the case. What people forget is: game consoles die. They go out of production and stop making new games. But they can be immortal through their legacy. Think about this, what if the NES had the power to block used games? That would mean people looking into getting a legitimate NES console would not be able to play any games on it. At all. They'd only be limited to games of the person they bought the console from. games go out of print and it makes it impossible to get new copies after a certain time, even if the lack of used games would allow new copies to get on store shelves. I know you're probably thinking it's not a big deal, the NES was a long time ago. Eventually, so will the Xbox 360, the PS3, and Wii. Eventually, these new systems will stop having games be printed. And then you're stuck with what you bought in that generation. Nothing else. If you don't see the reality of this, think about how hard it is now to find a new PS2 game.... How long ago was that?

Furthermore, what happened to the joys of going over to a friend's house and showing off your new game?

I hope there's a logical human being who'll read this and feel maybe a little more educated as to why hating on GameStop is the worst thing to do as a fan of video games. Do video games want to be an entertainment medium like music or movies or do they want to be Adobe and Microsoft Office? Only time will tell, and allowing used game sales has everything to do with that question. If they choose, the latter, we can no longer say video games are art. They're software.

Edit: Oh, and going full digital won't solve anything. Servers shut down eventually. All of them.

Now, $20 says no one reads this post because it's too educational and long.

I've said all of these things time and time again and trust me, I know how you feel. It's like people really believe that game developers work pro bono during the ~2 year development time for an average video game, just praying that they'll be paid after release.

I also love the "Gamestop should just die!" comments, because they are so staggeringly ignorant that I can't even comprehend what they must be thinking. I believe the old saying is "Better the evil you know, than the one you don't." Sure, more and more things are moving digital these days, but I seriously doubt physical copies are going to disappear anytime soon and if Gamestop crumbles, what's to stop a worse retail chain from looming up out of the rubble? Gamestop isn't even that bad; The entire used games thing is practically the only thing keeping them afloat. They don't make hardly any profit off of new games.

People on this website like to talk about how much they love going back to games like Baldur's Gate, Final Fantasy VI, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Half-Life 2, Deus Ex, and so on. In ten years' time or so, how do you think you'll be able to play any of those games anymore if, god forbid, your copy stops working? It's highly likely that they won't be distributed on any download service anymore, you won't be able to find a physical copy in any store, so what does that leave you with?

Why hello there smart human being!! I was wondering how many people skipped my post and went back to blind thinking.

As far as GameStop goes: It's amazing to think a company is the root of all evil when THEY are the only reason Xenoblade Chronicles came to America.

 

[theultimateend]

I find it interesting that most of the commentary from game companies that I find repulsive are from companies that make or made games I didn't like.

Not saying its a 1:1, but its usually "Company X made a mediocre game with Y marketing assets. Company X thinks Piracy is like Rape and Used Game sales are the equivalent of Child Slave Labor."

I'm not saying Crysis is bad objectively, but I found myself incredibly board through the game. I had to end up cheating and pretending I was the Predator (infinite suit energy for stealthing) just to keep going.

I had an inner monologue about collecting trophies, I had wished it was an actual game. A solid title where you are specifically predator would be nice.

I realize there are those mashup ones, but I like Predator specifically. Less space marine like and his baby form doesn't give me motion sickness.

It's too bad that Sony and Microsoft wont't try a solution like the one I described. They seem to have it out for customers that want to buy digital games. They rarely go down in price and often stay that way indefinitely. Oh well, not my problem I'm a PC gamer and stores like Steam are affordable and easy. I guess console gaming will always suffer because it's a closed market.

Just about every console game I've bought was 50-80% off on Amazon.

The price on Console games tanks in a matter of weeks or months.

I figure in about a month, maybe two, it'll be 19.99 or 24.99 for Mass Effect 3 brand new, that's when I plan to get that.

 

[ResonanceSD]

BUYING USED GAMES IS BAAAD

BUYING "NEW" GAMES AT 66% OF THE ORIGINAL COST ON STEAM DURING A SALE IS GOOD!


Well done, game industry. How are we meant to take you people seriously now?