Dante's Inferno

[AC Medina]

Catacomb 3-D! That was maybe the second computer game I ever played, and I have been trying to remember the name of it for ages. Thanks, Yahtzee.

 

[shadow skill]

I'm not so sure about DGH. It's an obvious rip-off of the gameplay and athmosphere, but it seems to do so with irony and self-awareness. The whole idea and premise of the game "overwhelming the player in nostalgia but taking it to the extreme" wouldn't work if they hadn't copyied a style that induces nostalgia to begin with. The art style also helps it from feeling completely copyied.

It all comes down to this: DI copies it straight-faced and bluntly, DGH copies it more tongue-in cheek and cleverly. It comes down to the intention for me. I don't know much about DGH, all I know I could be completely false and it's an even worse knock-off than DI.

Well, Dot Game Heroes hasn't been released yet and I haven't seen much hype for it at all, so that's pretty understandable. I think I saw, like... one trailer for it on GT. Of course, it could be a blatant rip-off even with the art-style, but I'm going to check it out anyway.

I can see what you mean, though; I haven't played DI myself, but if they really did rip it off that much then I think the least they could have done would be to throw in an easter-egg or something as a self-parody.

I don't think ripping a game off immediately makes another game bad, though, and I personally would still get it as long as it was at least fun, although I wouldn't exactly be queuing up for it on release day or for the limited special collector's platinum edition: reloaded the revenge the return turbo et cetera.

A true ripoff has no soul of it's own. That is what kills them, and what killed DI. If they had tried to give it it's own style like Kamiya did with Bayonetta DI could have been good if not great on it's own. Visceral took only the surface things that comprise God of War and called it a day; apparently they did not actually understand what made God of War as good as it is.

 

[Seneschal]

Eh, nevermind, just read Seneschal post a few more times.

Then go to Atomic Rocket.

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/

Yeah, I should have just put that link instead.

And don't forget the Rocketpunk Manifesto.

http://www.rocketpunk-manifesto.com/

I understand you can't make a completely realistic space warfare game without having two ships lasering each other from 900 million miles over a period of two days in hope the other one has thinner armor. It needs something more dynamic. But a random scientifically accurate detail every now and then would make us nerds giggle.

 

[skitskat]

i've tried both god of war and dante's inferno, and i agree with Mr. Ben Croshaw, they are definatly the same, but i dont care about it at all, all i'm interested in is Fun Space Game: The Game!

hope to god Mr. Ben releases it to the general public

P.S. i still play wolfenstien 3D on my PS3, and i do actually still have the floppy disk version of it RETRO!

 

[HuntrRose]

Looking forward to Fun Space Game: The Game. Hoping it will be released under GPL so I can grab the source code and see if I can make some of it myself. Or maybe just port it to Linux for the hell of it.

 

[MrDarkling]

hehe some good points.

So yahtzee.....how about you stick some mining lasers in there?
Maybe hundreds and thousands of skills that take you years to complete?
haha

 

[Salieri82]

Here's an idea for Space Game - make the protagonist a flunkie for a brutal and repressive interstellar government. The player has to locate small bands of plucky rebels fighting to restore freedom to the Galaxy and crush them mercilessly.

I'll let you know where to send the royalty cheque.

 

[Cod of War]

Or rather the flunkie realizes the error of his ways and joins the good guys
Except in the end he back stabs them and his boss becoming the evil Emperor of the universe in a massive Xanatos Gambit. Also, your ship AI is the Mass Effect-eque love interest

 

[Salieri82]

"Or rather the flunkie realizes the error of his ways and joins the good guys"

Oh dear God no - the world doesn't need another Avatar. (Hell, it didn't even need the first one). Our protagonist should be an evil bastard beginning to end.

While we're at it, a question for Yahtzee - are you going to include any of your 'cool game ideas that the developers are all too retarded to appreciate'? I'm thinking especially of the dynamic dialogue system you mentioned a little while ago.

 

[JupiterBase]

Cant wait for the spacegame been trying to find an simple entertaining one for a while

 

[murphy7801]

Learn to use the unreal 3 engine its free to use you cretin

 

[carpathic]

I have to say, good call on Catacombs. A seriously fun, old school game.

 

[Ninjamedic]

In regards to your game, it better have a star fox style control system.
....sorry I'm still depressed over star fox adventures....

I liked Star Fox adventures . Granted, a combat/platformer isn't really what you'd expect from the Star Fox franchise, but it was cool that they tried something new with it, and I thought they did a pretty good job of it.

Twas a copy of zelda, It still saddens me.

 

[rhizic]

I bet google are wondering why some many people started googline simony and usury.

 

[rhizic]

also on a plot for a space game..... why not have zero plot?

It's the future, space is vast, you just bought a pile of junk, just go and explore? lots of npc to meet and missions to find as well as just lying around.

also the game battlecruiser had the best dynamic where you controlled a carrier, and could fly around space in a fighter that left the carrier, or fly from a shuttle to a support frigate and take that elsewhere leaving the fleet in station, better still you could pilot a drop shit, fly right down to a planet no stop n load , land get out, walk or drive a jeep around.

only they they made space way to open like inj reality and all the planets had like 1 building on it, but it was epic.

getting to that point could be the pinnicle of your game, and I love the idea of detatching from the fleet or even sending npc squads of to a mission... becuase you cant just take a fleet everywhere, it has many roles like...

yeah anyways ..

 

[Redd]

The only thing I can say really is, DMC did NOT invent the Hack n' Slash. For that you should look further back to games like Dynasty Warriors. Guess what you did in those games? You ran around Hacking and Slashing things.

So, yeah. Can't really argue with that. DMC focuses mostly on style and how many awesome combos you can pull off, while GoW is mostly a " I'm run through you, and then skullfuck everything else in my way. "

I didn't really like DI as much as GoW or DMC, but then again I enjoyed GoW more then DMC. And yet, I've played all three of them. Some of them I liked, some I hated. Its just the way people enjoy their stuff.

 

[shadow skill]

The only thing I can say really is, DMC did NOT invent the Hack n' Slash. For that you should look further back to games like Dynasty Warriors. Guess what you did in those games? You ran around Hacking and Slashing things.

So, yeah. Can't really argue with that. DMC focuses mostly on style and how many awesome combos you can pull off, while GoW is mostly a " I'm run through you, and then skullfuck everything else in my way. "

I didn't really like DI as much as GoW or DMC, but then again I enjoyed GoW more then DMC. And yet, I've played all three of them. Some of them I liked, some I hated. Its just the way people enjoy their stuff.

Thank you for bringing up Dynasty Warrirors. I also concur with your God of War assessment.

 

[edgeofblade]

Long Story Short: God of War a touchstone. Of course it's going to be emulated.

---

Short Story Long:

Shameless? Ok, I'll grant that.

Why is that such a bad thing? Saints Row was an unrepentant knockoff of GTA, but one that did well enough on it's own to warrant a second and even spur GTA to take on some of its better mechanics. Is it so much to ask that we play a game to enjoy it, as both I and my wife did? Is it therefore too much to ask that we RATE games based on how much we enjoyed said game, like the non-press, non-review-writing, non-self-important-attention-whore gamers in the market will rate it? Real-world gamers... not those with a giant soapbox to shout from... don't sit down and pen sub-scores. They simply get a feeling, like "Buy, Sell, Rent, Avoid, ShaqFu".

This is just plain ugly that we should have a mandatory evisceration of Dante's Inferno because of its similarity to God of War. I have a hard time with absolutes, especially when people insist on adopting arbitrary principles based on those absolutes:

"I have to pass laws to coerce other people to adhere to my religious views. That proves to God I have religious views. Therefore, it's vitally important to me that you don't buy alcohol before noon on Sunday."

"I should crap on a game that takes some cues from a great place to take cues. All games have to be new and innovative or the art of games isn't moving forward and will DIE! Therefore, Dante's Inferno should be made an example of for the protection of the industry."

There is no middle ground when you rest on over-extended principles like these because you forgot why you have them. Perhaps I pick up Dante's Inferno BEFORE I play God of War. Who did I have more fun with then? Do I downgrade GoW for not aging well on a, frankly, aged machine? No, that would be a stupid hair-brained principle. But why not that principle rather than this principle?

Look, Yahtzee... and the rest of you jaded reviewer-types and wannabes... you play a shit-ton of games. I get it. We still expect you to be professional (yep... said it straight faced...) enough to separate one game from another while SIMULTANEOUSLY acknowledging that games aren't made in a vacuum. Dante's Inferno merely looks to God of War as a TOUCHSTONE. Is that so hard to acknowledge and subsequently rate the game on its own merits?

 

[Falzing]

I'm looking forward to "Fun Space Game: The Game!" it's been a while since I've played a space based game and your idea has piqued my interest in the genre again.

I hope it all goes well, you never know we might have a space game revolution on our hands if any developers/publishers pay attention to you!

 

[shadow skill]

Long Story Short: God of War a touchstone. Of course it's going to be emulated.

---

Short Story Long:

Shameless? Ok, I'll grant that.

Why is that such a bad thing? Saints Row was an unrepentant knockoff of GTA, but one that did well enough on it's own to warrant a second and even spur GTA to take on some of its better mechanics. Is it so much to ask that we play a game to enjoy it, as both I and my wife did? Is it therefore too much to ask that we RATE games based on how much we enjoyed said game, like the non-press, non-review-writing, non-self-important-attention-whore gamers in the market will rate it? Real-world gamers... not those with a giant soapbox to shout from... don't sit down and pen sub-scores. They simply get a feeling, like "Buy, Sell, Rent, Avoid, ShaqFu".

This is just plain ugly that we should have a mandatory evisceration of Dante's Inferno because of its similarity to God of War. I have a hard time with absolutes, especially when people insist on adopting arbitrary principles based on those absolutes:

"I have to pass laws to coerce other people to adhere to my religious views. That proves to God I have religious views. Therefore, it's vitally important to me that you don't buy alcohol before noon on Sunday."

"I should crap on a game that takes some cues from a great place to take cues. All games have to be new and innovative or the art of games isn't moving forward and will DIE! Therefore, Dante's Inferno should be made an example of for the protection of the industry."

There is no middle ground when you rest on over-extended principles like these because you forgot why you have them. Perhaps I pick up Dante's Inferno BEFORE I play God of War. Who did I have more fun with then? Do I downgrade GoW for not aging well on a, frankly, aged machine? No, that would be a stupid hair-brained principle. But why not that principle rather than this principle?

Look, Yahtzee... and the rest of you jaded reviewer-types and wannabes... you play a shit-ton of games. I get it. We still expect you to be professional (yep... said it straight faced...) enough to separate one game from another while SIMULTANEOUSLY acknowledging that games aren't made in a vacuum. Dante's Inferno merely looks to God of War as a TOUCHSTONE. Is that so hard to acknowledge and subsequently rate the game on its own merits?

Look at the other top tier games in the genre that came out after DMC including God of War...They are all different from each other, in at least the nuances of their combat engines; the most important part of these types of games. Even Bayonetta manages to pull it off and that was made by the guy who could be given a pass at least this once! Why then should anyone give Dante's Inferno any credit? It's pathetic what they did even if some of those guys did work on God of War, how do you not try to really change the battle system to differentiate your new work from your old work? What are we supposed to think when the exact same strategies we used in God of War apply to this game with no change?

You bring up the lack of a middle ground, I would agree in the sense that some incredibly myopic people have decided to abuse phrases like rip-off and innovative to the point where they have become utterly meaningless because no one is capable of seeing the small details as important. It also means that when a true rip-off arrives people have a much harder time calling it out because some people have destroyed the meaning of the term by abusing it. Some even start claiming that we should get rid of genres when the real problem is that genre definitions based on primarily on mechanics rather than purpose are inherently weak.