Dark Souls 2 invasion system

[Vrach]

So, I just went over to NG+ for the first time... and boy do I hate it. I knew this would happen since DS2 was announced and the details of the invasion system were made public. Allow Hollows to be invaded and you're pretty much creating a system where no one can play PvE if they've so much as stepped into a bit of PvP.

I remember the discussions on this subject. Everyone was basically saying "yeah, but the idea is, since there's a larger pool of people to invade, Hollows won't be invaded except once in a blue moon". I've said that's bullshit then and I'll say it again, now that I've seen it in action. The pool is larger because Hollows can be invaded.

Lower chance of getting invaded as a Hollow? Maybe. That doesn't stop me getting 2 invasions every single time between a bonfire and a boss. If the area's designed to have the player go slowly and not recklessly through it (and this is Dark Souls, most areas are like that), you can either be better than most players at PvP or fuck off(line). Or summon phantoms, but screw 2vs1 PvP. Not to mention that with each death, your health is being cut away, so unless you're packing tons of Human Effigies, you're continually more and more at a disadvantage against the invaders.

Getting summoned? Not a chance. I've left my sign down a ridiculous number of times and didn't get summoned once. Why? Because the game is setting me up to be invaded, so my sign isn't showing up to the other players. I don't mean that in a conspiratory way, it's just the server mechanics, you get designated as an invasion target and your online slot's reserved there. Previous games had the same system, but there was a decent cooldown on invasions and you couldn't be invaded in Hollow/Soul form. I know this for sure, because when I put my summon sign down and go into a defeated boss' room (where you can't be invaded), it takes a minute or so for me to get summoned.

I like PvP in Dark Souls. I even like getting invaded, even when someone's just out for my throat, to try and screw up my game. It's part of the experience and while frustrating sometimes, I've always found it fun on the whole. I'm even pretty decent at it and can beat most people in 1vs1 combat. But when they invade me every 4 minutes and I'm fighting them with 50% of my health, that's where it just gets unplayable.

*sigh* rant over, sorry. Anyone else found the system frustrating? Or perhaps fun? Feel free to share your experience and opinion

 

[Liquidprid3]

Well I recently completed Dark Souls 2, and I think I only got invaded once. As a human and as a hollow. I invaded about 30 people my self, but random invasions almost never happened. I was a bit disappointed, but I guess I play differently than most, so my soul memory was too high or too low.

 

[Vrach]

Well I recently completed Dark Souls 2, and I think I only got invaded once. As a human and as a hollow. I invaded about 30 people my self, but random invasions almost never happened. I was a bit disappointed, but I guess I play differently than most, so my soul memory was too high or too low.

If you mean you just finished NG, try NG+. You'll get invaded regularly in each zone. Alternatively, if you've invaded yourself, stand in one place for 5-10 minutes where you can be invaded. Even in NG, you'll get a Blue Phantom easily.

 

[A-D.]

Actually DS2 works opposite to DS1. If you are Hollow, the chance is higher to be invaded by a red phantom. Basicly you are less likely to be invaded while human. However there are specific invasion zones, there arent really any "save" zones, well a few like boss-rooms, certain pvp areas, if you cant put a sign down, you cant be invaded there, of course there are areas which are less frequently invaded because the areas are shit, example being The Gutter (was invaded there twice by the same guy who killed himself both times), Throne of Want (invaded once, ironically by the guy i had just helped take down the Throne Duo, fucking havel's man), Black Gulch and so forth. Conversly there are also areas which are highly frequented by invaders, Iron Keep, Heide's Tower of Flame, Huntsman's Copse, Undead Crypt and Forest of Fallen Giants are big areas where i can literally count to 5 and have another invader on my hands. The rest is varied, but yes NG+ has more invaders than NG because everyone is in NG+ (plus you can buy cracked red eye orbs at Titchy Gren).

Also the higher your SM, the more invaders you get because eventually everyone ends up at the same tier, which is 15 million to maximum souls possible to every obtain, which is 999.999.999, so if you so much as hit 15 million, you can be invaded by anyone in the same tier, even people who have literally the max number of souls and 99 stats in everything (most likely cheaters because at 250, you need like 200k souls per point).

What FROM should have done is tie PvP specifically to Soul-Level and the PvE to Soul Memory, build a strict tier system for the SL ranges and you're good to go because at that point you are garantueed to only invade, or be invaded by, people who have spent about the same amount of points on their stats as you did, regardless of how many souls you ever earned, which by the by includes souls you lost by dying. Soul Memory only goes up, if you were to grind all souls in one playthrough, say generously 4 million, then die without spending even one of those, twice to lose it all, your Soul Memory is at 4 million even though you are still at the original minimum level.

 

[Broderick]

I find the system frustrating because I do not get invaded enough, or too often. The problem is that it works on a tier systems based on how many souls you have collected over the course of the game. This unfortunately makes it so that lower level people with high soul memory are playing with high level people with high soul memory. This makes the system completely broken in terms of balancing the pvp.

One of the reasons why you may be getting more invasions in new game plus is that in new game plus, you can actually buy Cracked Red Eye Orbs, as opposed to dueling for them before ng+. Unfortunately with how it is now, balancing pvp is hard, aside from just nerfing or buffing specific weapons, spells, or armor. If they just got rid of soul memory and went with a tier system, but based on Soul Level, I think it would work much better(or at least be more fair).

Edit: Also I am a rat bro(at least on one character). For some reason, there is a mandatory 3 minute wait time between "summons" before you can summon another person into your world. While this seems pretty small, it does get quite annoying, as I will kill the summon, then have to wait 3-10 minutes for another person to be summoned. I am unsure if Soul Memory is what is messing with it, or if I just play at times when not many people are going through those areas. I have heard of ways to reduce the amount of wait time, such as waiting at a bonfire, quitting the game, or leaving the area and returning. Such things have not done any sort of noticeable change unfortunately.

 

[White Lightning]

Edit: Also I am a rat bro(at least on one character). For some reason, there is a mandatory 3 minute wait time between "summons" before you can summon another person into your world. While this seems pretty small, it does get quite annoying, as I will kill the summon, then have to wait 3-10 minutes for another person to be summoned. I am unsure if Soul Memory is what is messing with it, or if I just play at times when not many people are going through those areas. I have heard of ways to reduce the amount of wait time, such as waiting at a bonfire, quitting the game, or leaving the area and returning. Such things have not done any sort of noticeable change unfortunately.

Rat bro here, I've never heard of this mandatory 3 minute wait thing. Can you tell me where you heard it? Anyways if you enter a loading screen you'll get someone as soon as you go to one of the rat areas. Just fast travel somewhere then go back to the area you want to summon people too. Unfortunately once you hit the 7 million soul memory tier it's REALLY rare to summon someone, at that point you're better off joining a new covenant.


In general random invasions suck, they're rare and very unbalanced thanks to soul memory. I have a level 1 character being invaded by guys level 100+ for crying out loud.

Now MY question for the peoples, what the hell is wrong with the arenas? Is it just me or are they laggy as hell. In DKS 1 lag was minimal for me, in DKS 2 it's not all that bad either. However once I enter the arenas it goes to shit! I'm getting backstabbed from 2+ feet away, getting stun locked by attacks that are nowhere near me, being insta killed by spells that blatantly missed. The list goes on and on. 3/5 fights are lag ridden horse shit once I enter the arena but everywhere else it's fine.

 

[White Lightning]

What the hell do you spend your souls on if you're being invaded by people 100 levels up?

Nothing. I'm going through the game as a level 1. That's it. It's actually kind of funny cuz I can beat a lot of the people who invade me.

 

[AntiChri5]

If you are being invaded too often, join the Way Of Blue. We Sentinels will protect you.

Unless, of course, you are a sinner. In which case we will fuck you up. Or at least attempt to.

Im on NG+ and not getting invaded that often. Where are you?

 

[Broderick]

Edit: Also I am a rat bro(at least on one character). For some reason, there is a mandatory 3 minute wait time between "summons" before you can summon another person into your world. While this seems pretty small, it does get quite annoying, as I will kill the summon, then have to wait 3-10 minutes for another person to be summoned. I am unsure if Soul Memory is what is messing with it, or if I just play at times when not many people are going through those areas. I have heard of ways to reduce the amount of wait time, such as waiting at a bonfire, quitting the game, or leaving the area and returning. Such things have not done any sort of noticeable change unfortunately.

Rat bro here, I've never heard of this mandatory 3 minute wait thing. Can you tell me where you heard it? Anyways if you enter a loading screen you'll get someone as soon as you go to one of the rat areas. Just fast travel somewhere then go back to the area you want to summon people too. Unfortunately once you hit the 7 million soul memory tier it's REALLY rare to summon someone, at that point you're better off joining a new covenant.


In general random invasions suck, they're rare and very unbalanced thanks to soul memory. I have a level 1 character being invaded by guys level 100+ for crying out loud.

Now MY question for the peoples, what the hell is wrong with the arenas? Is it just me or are they laggy as hell. In DKS 1 lag was minimal for me, in DKS 2 it's not all that bad either. However once I enter the arenas it goes to shit! I'm getting backstabbed from 2+ feet away, getting stun locked by attacks that are nowhere near me, being insta killed by spells that blatantly missed. The list goes on and on. 3/5 fights are lag ridden horse shit once I enter the arena but everywhere else it's fine.

I heard about it(the timer) in several forums, but for a more "legit" source http://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Rat+King+Covenant tells of a 3 minute timer between summons. Apparently resting at a bonfire or leaving the area by teleporting can help, but I have not seen too many noticeable changes on my end. Perhaps my soul memory is too high on that character.

I get ya on random invasions. My first time through the game, I was invaded maybe once by an actual player, and it was really unbalanced. I have not participated in too many of the arenas, so I cannot comment on that. However, on pc, the hit boxes seem to be quite broken. I and many others have witnessed attacks having way larger hit boxes than their graphic would suggest(in pve and pvp). For pvp, some lag is to be expected, but man are there some really laggy connections sometimes. I guess it would depend on the players connection.

 

[Drizzitdude]

You do know there is an offline mode right? And as a sunbro for life I have never had a problem getting summoned or doing the summoning.

 

[iLikeHippos]

The invasion system is... Kind of pointless. If you want to invade others as a Black Phantom, you gain nothing from doing so, other than a small portion of copied souls from the host, and perhaps a hate-mail from Yours Truly. Not to mention that is is not balanced depending on your Soul Level, but rather your Soul Memory, and the peak stops at 12m+ SM, meaning you can get invaded, or invade, people with 100 more levels than yourself, turning the PvP into a Prank n' Spank.

You could always try and invade someone as a Blue Sentinel, but it can take ages, and you'll most likely find people who fight more desperate than a pack of cornered wolfs and with the strength of oxes. Not exactly your normal preying run. In fact, most of the time, YOU become the prey. Quite counter-intuitive.
Also, the cracked orbs are real expensive, and only made for people in NG++/+, so invading under any earlier time can be a very limited experience.

The only way to fairly invade others is through the Red Soapstone, which acts as a Summoning Sign, meaning it will only reach out to players in your cycle, and of those between 20+ or 20- of your level. You'll only be invading others who WANT you to invade them as well, which is a plus.
It's also the most fun, especially when you put it on the bridge outside Fire Keep. People like to make Arenas there with no rules, just honor and fair judgment . It's the most fun to PvP there imo.

 

[Longing]

I honestly wish there was a pvp on/off switch. I don't want some assholes invading my game, especially with how modders have started to make their way online on consoles. Killed one, got a ridiculous amount of souls, fucked up my sm level and it just felt super cheap.

I just started ng+ and it is ridiculous. I got invaded like 5 times in regular ng and now I can't take a step without getting blindsided. ughhh i feel you.

i know there's offline mode, but I genuinely love coop. I love beating a boss and then laying my sign down before it a couple of times. It just feels like pass it forward y'know?

 

[White Lightning]

Ah. Well that seems okay then. If you can take on the likes of the Smelter Demon and Old Iron King at level 1, a few chosen undead shouldn't be too difficult
And really? Not even upgrading equipment?

I'm upgrading equipment, but for the most part I just buy bombs and throwing knives. Surprisingly you have a lot of souls left over even if you max out all those. The Smelter Demon was rough but the Iron King was really easy, I'm worried about the Throne guys and Nashandra. The Ruin Sentinels were pretty hard so the Throne guys worry me and Nashandras curse effect will probably kill me before I can do anything.

 

[MHR]

Way of the blue to get help from arbiters.

If you're getting invaded by blues, that's nobody's fault but your own. Take your lumps like a man.

We don't need a PvP on/off switch. The point of using orbs is to invade people that don't want it. If we wanted to only invade people that wanted it all the time, we'd do duels. I'm not talking about offline mode or burning effigies; both have their own prices to be paid.

I haven't been invaded often in NG+. That is to say, I've been invaded by not a single red randomly since I started NG+. It's been all blues, and since I ran out of sin, no reds.

I'm way of the blue anyway; Hate losing in PvP.

But regarding getting invaded in general, I don't mind it. It gets the heart pumping, and the host honestly has most of the advantages. Host has estus and all replenishing comsumables to use, phantoms, and the fog wall for running away. All the invader has is the element of surprise and the area's monsters.

 

[MHR]

Ah. Well that seems okay then. If you can take on the likes of the Smelter Demon and Old Iron King at level 1, a few chosen undead shouldn't be too difficult
And really? Not even upgrading equipment?

I'm upgrading equipment, but for the most part I just buy bombs and throwing knives. Surprisingly you have a lot of souls left over even if you max out all those. The Smelter Demon was rough but the Iron King was really easy, I'm worried about the Throne guys and Nashandra. The Ruin Sentinels were pretty hard so the Throne guys worry me and Nashandras curse effect will probably kill me before I can do anything.

Regarding Nashandra

Spoiler

Curse doesn't kill you, Just takes max health. So unless you get hella cursed and still die, it won't bother you too much. Nashandra is easy. The throne guys are actually much harder.

 

[Vrach]

Have you tried putting your sign down in a higher level area?

Read my post mate, as I've said, it takes me a minute to get summoned if I "hide" from the invaders in a boss room as it frees up my invasion slots for co-op ones. For some reason, it seems invasion has a huge priority compared to co-op and it makes it impossible to get summoned if you're able to be invaded (especially as a Sinner where you'll get invaded by Blue Phantoms like crazy)

Edit: Also I am a rat bro

/utterHate

Seriously, got summoned in a rat bro's world once (didn't know about it beforehand), the guy just poked me with a poisoned Ricard's and ran away to heal while I was fighting Mastadons and getting pounded by traps. He wouldn't fight me after I've killed the bloody elephants (tried to lure me further into mobs and pelt me with arrows to no avail), so 15 minutes of irritating chase later, the timer expired (first and only time I've ever seen that) and I was sent back to my world. Promptly left a "Be wary of phantom, but hole" and went offline to do that area

Unless, of course, you are a sinner. In which case we will fuck you up. Or at least attempt to.

Im on NG+ and not getting invaded that often. Where are you?

Yep, sinner. 90% of the invasions are Blue phantoms. It's amusing that most of them, supposedly the good guys, play like assholes compared to me when I was invading, I'm one of those "bow and let them prepare" invaders. Even used the Separation Crystal to return to my world a few times when I invaded a guy who did a "Beg for mercy" emote

Just started, finished the Last Giant and the Pursuer (got invaded 10-20 times on my way, mostly beat the crap out of them), at the time of writing the OP, I was trying to get to the Dragonrider but couldn't make it there without at least 2 phantoms on the way. Finally resorted to going offline last night and did both Dragonrider and the Orstein dude in one go.

Now MY question for the peoples, what the hell is wrong with the arenas?

Nothing's wrong with the arenas, a lot is wrong with the people in them. A lot will mess with their connection to lag their way to a backstab on you.

i know there's offline mode, but I genuinely love coop. I love beating a boss and then laying my sign down before it a couple of times. It just feels like pass it forward y'know?

I feel you mate. I find it ironic when the Blues invade me while I'm waiting to try and help someone. However, if you're beating the boss first, then helping others, just lay the sign down in front of the boss room, then go inside. Unlike previous games, your sign will not disappear and the boss room is a no-invasion zone, so you'll get summoned in no time without a chance of invasion

If you're getting invaded by blues, that's nobody's fault but your own. Take your lumps like a man.

I've no problems with Blues (or anyone else) invading me, I like actually having PvP seeing as I got maybe 1 or 2 invaders on NG. My problem is that there isn't a decent timer on invasions. Getting attacked by two phantoms on the way to a boss is just stupid, you have to be better than two random players each time. It's not so much the PvP that annoys me, but that when I get killed, I have to clear all the boring mobs on the way. I was in Heide's Tower of Flame and killing the giant soldiers is easy as fuck, but you have to take it slow and take them on one at a time and it takes forever to clear your way to the boss fight after you die.

We don't need a PvP on/off switch. The point of using orbs is to invade people that don't want it. If we wanted to only invade people that wanted it all the time, we'd do duels. I'm not talking about offline mode or burning effigies; both have their own prices to be paid.

That switch was kinda there in both previous games and it worked - Soul Form and Hollow Form. Especially in Demon's Souls, where you'd lose half your health right away (or 25% and a ring slot). Wanna play with more health? You have a chance of invaders then. Here you both lose health constantly, down to 50% and can still get invaded. I can take on most invaders normally, but when I'm down 40% of my health, it's a ridiculous advantage for the invader.

I'm way of the blue anyway; Hate losing in PvP.

But regarding getting invaded in general, I don't mind it. It gets the heart pumping, and the host honestly has most of the advantages. Host has estus and all replenishing comsumables to use, phantoms, and the fog wall for running away. All the invader has is the element of surprise and the area's monsters.

Except I don't like playing like a dick against the invaders. I hate 2vs1 fights (seriously, 2 complete morons can almost always 'outplay' even the best player because all they really have to do is line up for backstabs, you can't face both ways). I also hold by the "no healing in PvP" (unless you're being a giant cockhead and stabbing during a bow or sth) since Demon's Souls, always found that a dick move (though I don't blame some people, if they just really want to get to a boss), so no, I don't really have any advantages nor do I want any. I like a good PvP fight, it's just annoying as hell that I have to beat at least two people in addition to all the area's mobs before getting to the boss every single time, and continually fight with less and less health unless I eat Effigies like mad.

 

[Vrach]

Another thing. The thrill of being invaded is not knowing when or if it's coming. That's how it was in the previous two games and it worked, being much more fun than DS2. You'd go through an area, knowing there's a chance of an invasion (especially when going through a PvP active zone) and fearing for your life.

In the current system, at least for Sinners, that goes away completely. Blues will invade you on every timer reset if you're in an invade-able zone. There's no suspense, there's no maybe, there isn't even a sense of "when it's coming". Through Heide's Tower of Flame yesterday, I knew exactly when and where my next invader would be after dying and respawning at the bonfire. They were basically just another spawning mob, another hurdle.

I preferred it when the invader would show up and you'd go "holy shit, an invader, where is he? Is he coming after me or waiting for me somewhere, by some traps, by some nasty mobs or maybe in front of the boss door, to kill me right after I've went through the entire level". In Dark Souls 2, there's just the "ah, he spawned. Guessing he's there. I'll just sit here and wait for him for a minute so I can move on or respawn". It takes all the fun out of it and turns it into something completely generic.