Dark Souls Director Considers an Easier Option

[Tallim]

Uru and Grimrock - hard? Did I miss something?

Dark Souls is challenging on the level of NetHack. It's a game where the difficulty is substantial - but the rewards are equally so. Your comparison examples just don't cut it.

Of course they do. They're wickedly difficult games of different sorts. The comparison is spot-on.

And how exactly are the rewards of either Dark Souls or Nethack "substantial?" I think you'll find that it's the same sort of "yay good job" business that every game dishes out. Some gamers might get a big rush out of beating a particular boss fight after failing 50 times, but how is that any different than the one that others get when they work through a viciously obtuse adventure puzzle without the aid of a walkthrough?

La-Mulana has both obtuse puzzles and tough bosses.

Actually comparing Dark Souls to Nethack kind of makes sense. They are both difficult but they are also both fair. Nethack is possibly the most fair roguelike ever once you get to know how everything works.

I'm assuming the PC version contains all the patch changes from the console versions which made the game a good deal easier in many ways.

 

[cerebus23]

I think the hardest part as a new player is just figuring out where to go when, like me i started out in the cemetary and catacombs, dying alot, just because it was just the first place i had found that went "down" and figured the bell was down that way. when i finally found the proper route to the upper bell at lest it was leagues easier than mucking around in the dark and trying desperately to find the necros so i could lose the immortal skeletons that i could not kill.

Also some pats of the game are made for co op or at lest are a ton easier if you have help, or you need to grind levels period to take some areas on effectively at lest since with a good amount of practice theoretically anyone could solo the game at level 1 if they knew each and every monster and played perfectly basically, but most people especially those playing offline are going to just die a ton in parts without the help, some of the boss battles are tricky to get the vibe of, there are parts of the game that can kill any player no matter how good they are, but especially deadly to a noobie player just wandering around lost, and the games rather deadly habit of putting large mobs with nasty knockback and backstab attacks on narrow cliffs at an alarming clip.

It is almost a game that you have to wiki just to figure out certain concepts period. Some are flat out never explained at all, your first times into a level it is very easy to get lost or go in circle when your mostly focused on surviving. There a few areas of the game i would never have found period if it were not for youtube and having to look up videos because even reading the wiki i could not make out wth i needed to go.

offline players also lack the hints that online players can get, so there is that lack of info on that end also.

 

[Zeriah]

I didn't find Dark Souls very difficult at all (though it did have a few moments) - just unforgiving as well as some bullshit terrain (i.e Anor Londo silver knight archers or The Great Hollow). I hardly ever died during the combat and I'm sure that was true for a lot of people, so having an 'Easy Mode' wouldn't even accomplish much unless it came with a Prince of Persia type option.

I have to say I probably had most difficulty navigating the map as well. The terrain is out to kill you.

Spoiler

Swamp area poisoned me, didn't have an antidote.. real annoying.
The archers in Anor Londo were a pain, though if you dodge their hits they're not THAT bad.
I died like 9 times trying to navigate the Crystal Cave.. God that place just annoyed me. Yes I tried to follow the sparkly things but in the end after having to fight that stupid dragon all the time I just rushed through it, resulting in an invisible pit on an invisible path. My fault for being hasty but really. The worst yet was that damned dark area in Thomb of Giants or what was it called. Having to use a Lantern instead of my shield to see 1 inch in front of me was bad to begin with. But then they throw these giant ass skeletons at you that basically take 2/3th of your hp in a single hit. For me anyway. God that was awful.

Spoiler

I always died right as I got to the archer. There's no way to position yourself properly so it was very easy to die just by swinging your sword or blocking him and falling off the edge.

Blight Town was pretty easy for me but that's because I did the garden area before Blight Town and had a million of the cure poison plants . Crystal Cave was annoying as well (especially getting that fucking slab) but I only died once to Seath so I didn't have to spend much time there thankfully. Tomb of the Giants was scary as well but it wasn't so bad, I'd use the lantern till I encountered an enemy and just pulled it with an arrow and switched to my shield and stayed put so I wouldn't fall off an edge. The giant dog skeletons were pretty bullshit though, being one of the only things capable of one shotting you if you kept up with gear.

The Great Hollow was just the worst for me though, it was basically an entire platforming level and it was so easy to die on the way down (especially if you went for the items like I did) and with no bonfire checkpoint you'd have to do the entire level again

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

It's fair to remember that a few months after release they upped the humanity drop rate something like a few-hundred-fold, but early on after release it really was a pain to get and was precious to hold onto. I think in my first 8 hours with the game I accumulated 2-3 humanity, whereas now after patching I can accumulate twice that just by climbing the Undead Burg / Parish in one go. Guy could easily be speaking about those pre-patch days. The same days when a few bosses would give up 1.5K souls but now give 10K

I played it pretty early on, on xbox 360 but fair enough At least the fact that they changed it shows that they recognised that it needed tuning.

 

[rbstewart7263]

Looking at the success at STALKER and some of its mods (like MISERY which makes you miserable ) Id say PC gamers prefer difficult games more, but the devs of demons souls are rethinking their difficulty options for a new game. At least I hope so. As long as there are punishing settings, one more acceptable setting may actually be good.

long as they call it lil punk ***** mode thats fine w me! lol

 

[teh_gunslinger]

PC Gamers are soft

Can't reference a game from the win98 era as proof that they enjoy a challenge.

Alright.

Dungeons of Dredmor, Binding of Issac, SpaceChem, STALKER Misery, Men of War and DayZ to name a few that I've played in the past month.

 

[karcentric]

I personally am all for an easier difficulty, but that's only because I have died... oh about 40,000 times in the game and it's really frustrating if you get to a certain area and boom! You keep dying. That said I like it because none of my friends like it.

That said as I saw else where in this thread, I too only play it if I'm well rested and mentally alert, otherwise it all goes to shit pretty quick.

So Yes throw in an easier difficulty, just keep the original difficulty too, hell throw in a harder one too, someone out there will appreciate it.

 

[antipunt]

I've just been playing this game for a couple hours for the first time today.

...

I have a headache, I feel raped, and I kind of want to cry.

T_T

 

[Quazimofo]

As one of those players who'd probably be interested in Dark Souls but hate the idea of "Redo the whole area if you fail" difficulty:

An easy mode would probably make me buy it.

not entirely true. its more like redo and entire section if you fail. the areas are divided up pretty well i think with bonfires, so long as you make a point to find them.
on top of that, you will run back and forth through areas alot anyway, at least until you get the lordvessel, so you just get really really good at wiping out everything in an area before they can get a hit in.

but yeah, there are few, and i mean VERY few, times where i ever felt like "FUCK I HAVE TO DO THAT ALL AGAIN!!!!", because of the good placement of bonfires. though there was one time i got to the bottom of blighttown swamp, lit the bonfire, then got killed by one of those fucking bee things. though this was pre patch, so they spawned infinitely.

 

[5ilver]

If anything, PC gamers are far more hardcore than their console brethren.
"Oh but PC gamers aren't playing it!"
Wake up, it's because the port was terrible, not because we don't want to play it.

 

[viranimus]

Yup... Here I was.. anticipating the word "Accessible" to come into the equation.

I mean I do get the gist... and the argument is actually solid and valid. We want games that allow us extensive investment for our lauded 60+$ The Souls games offer that because its not a "80 hours of content that you can actually go through in 50" type of experience like from Square, Bioware, Bethesda, ect. Even with the "try and die" model, you find you can easily invest every bit of that expectation and more.

So yeah, if they wish to give us something that gives us more long term engagement (without requiring an internet connection) I am all for it, but the simple fact is that what they have produced thus far has fulfilled that desire. If they want to emulate that in a different way, Hell yeah. Just dont try to rework something that specifically fills a niche exactly how gamers want it to be filled at the expense of that experimentation.

 

[Maxtro]

I would love an easy mode.

I rented it for a day and I was done. I don't have the patience in games to keep playing after dieing repeatedly.

Simple ways to implement an easy mode:

Enemies and traps do less damage.
Enable anywhere saves out of combat.

 

[MPerce]

Okay. Easy option is fine with me. They just gotta remember that the reason Dark Souls is fun is because it kicks your butt until you learn how to do the right thing. Then you feel like a badass as you overcome whatever prick of a boss you were fighting. Even on the easier difficulty, the player still has to get that experience, or it becomes just another hack-n-slash.

 

[AsurasFinest]

No, it's because PC gamers are the most aggro, arrogant, know it all's out of the three platforms. That's why. They think they know everything, have the biggest opinion and are the biggest ragers in history of video games.

I'm not trying to be rude here and we all know how pc gamers do think they are the 'pc super race' and know better than your average joe who plays on console.

Japan isn't Pc oriented and prefer to play on console that's why it never came out on PC and all the hardcore nerds were ragin. DS isn't having the best sales on windows live due to the fact all the WOW players would get destroyed by it's difficulty curve and don't get their hand held like they do when they play that game.

Pc is more multiplayer based Miyazaki. I wish more pc players did get this game or just buy it on consoles. The game can be a bit of a grind though because getting to high level and doing some PVP is what makes that game awsome! and it is the best PVP i have ever played no warlock in purple rating armour lvl 85 who poisons, stuns, fears you all at the same time while putting more buffs on. In Ds you think about what your going to do, and try to aim for a backstab or perfectly time a hit on the enemy.

Source: finished DS around 9 times on ps3 and had WOW and sound my battlenet account.

Or maybe, just maybe no-one is playing it because it was a horrible PC port, the issues of which got fixed by a modder in a week. Don't turn this into some sort of console war that twelve year olds get into.

Hell even with its issues its doing decently on Steam, so don't know what the hell your talking about

 

[TallestGargoyle]

I am never really bothered by games having difficulty modes to them. However, calling PC gamers soft is kind of lame. A lot of brutally hard game exists on the PC. If anything, we have less patience for shoddy products released in terrible barely playable conditions. I wonder if any recently released ports match that description.

We got what we asked for, we got what we were promised.

 

[Trishbot]

I wouldn't mind an easy option. It's not like adding an easy option makes the current default difficulty disappear.

Seriously, I want to enjoy this game's world, combat, mechanics, enemy designs, RPG features, etc., but I don't have the time or energy to waste on a really difficult game these days, not when I have a whole library of easier, equally-fulfilling games on my shelf.

Giving me an "Easy" option would be ideal, and I would be grateful for it. If you don't like it, just play it on the default difficulty and pretend it doesn't exist.