To be fair, I didn't personally ask for it. I was always of the mindset that it isn't worth doing a port if you don't do it right.TallestGargoyle said:
Dark Souls Director Considers an Easier Option
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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To be fair, it DOES save anywhere, outside of combat. That's part of the issue for some gamers though: You can't NOT save. Everything is permanent.Maxtro said:
I'd support an easy mode or an Oblivion-style slider that changes the strength of enemies. I see no reason not to, as long as its primary difficulty is still tailored towards the very niche this game supports.
First off, I only got Dark Souls because it was super cheap with Green man gaming sale and yes, it's a horrible port.
Second, From what I've experienced in the game thus far, it's not so much difficult as it's obtuse. There's a lot in the game that isn't explained and either they expect you to figure it out or they expect you to already know. One such example is what area is appropriate for beginners.
I started out going to the graveyard, thinking it was the way to go because:
A) It didn't point me in a particular direction and it was the most obvious with the ruins right there infront of you.
B) Textures are so bad that it's hard to see paths, that and they seem to be partially hidden. Things kinda just blended together.
So I got my butt kicked.
Those issues coupled with what seemed to be a bug in parrying, makes the game difficult. (Sometimes when I parry an attack, the enemies attack goes through my shield and deals damage to me anyway. Imagine My shield swinging into the enemy at the same time their sword hits me. I still take damage with no stagger to me or the enemy. It's quite frustrating.)
Second, From what I've experienced in the game thus far, it's not so much difficult as it's obtuse. There's a lot in the game that isn't explained and either they expect you to figure it out or they expect you to already know. One such example is what area is appropriate for beginners.
I started out going to the graveyard, thinking it was the way to go because:
A) It didn't point me in a particular direction and it was the most obvious with the ruins right there infront of you.
B) Textures are so bad that it's hard to see paths, that and they seem to be partially hidden. Things kinda just blended together.
So I got my butt kicked.
Those issues coupled with what seemed to be a bug in parrying, makes the game difficult. (Sometimes when I parry an attack, the enemies attack goes through my shield and deals damage to me anyway. Imagine My shield swinging into the enemy at the same time their sword hits me. I still take damage with no stagger to me or the enemy. It's quite frustrating.)
Fair dos. I'm of the mindset of "DARK SOULS NNNNNGGGHHH sex wee everywhere" and it runs fine on my computer anyway. Even if the keyboard/mouse controls were sorted out, movement controls are a big part of Dark Souls and the precision of a controller far exceeds the capabilities of WASDClive Howlitzer said:
I have a friend, well two actually, that only buy the PC versions of games that they want that are available across multiple platforms specifically so they can cheat and use trainers, and when i brought up the prospect of DS to one of him the concept of it alone made him incredulous. So I'd have to say there is a culture of laziness and softness among PC gamers, or at least a certain group of them, and the fact that some people can't appreciate a challenge in a game makes me sad indeed.
While I spent a considerable amount of time on the game I really didn't find it that difficult or unforgiving (save for one instance that was patched). It was a bit tiresome when you had to spend five minutes running back and forth to a boss just to get killed by his first blow. I feel like that could have been cut down a little bit, but it did feel more rewarding when you finally finished the boss.
The one instance where I feel like it was too unforgiving was accidentally attacking NPCs. There were two occasions where I accidentally attack one. One was when I found one in a box and thought a sword would be the perfect method to get him out. And the other was when I was buying from a merchant, put my controller down and accidentally hit the R2 button in the process. After the first one I found that you needed something like 2000 souls per level to get the NPC back. For people who haven't played the game, this is about 5-10 levels of experience. I was level 20 at the time and looking at experience points charts it would take me the experience needed to get to level 30 to take back that mistake. When it happened the second time by putting down the controller that just made it more ridiculous. That is the only time I've ever felt like the game was needlessly unforgiving, and fortunately they fixed it by making the cost only 500 souls per level.
The one instance where I feel like it was too unforgiving was accidentally attacking NPCs. There were two occasions where I accidentally attack one. One was when I found one in a box and thought a sword would be the perfect method to get him out. And the other was when I was buying from a merchant, put my controller down and accidentally hit the R2 button in the process. After the first one I found that you needed something like 2000 souls per level to get the NPC back. For people who haven't played the game, this is about 5-10 levels of experience. I was level 20 at the time and looking at experience points charts it would take me the experience needed to get to level 30 to take back that mistake. When it happened the second time by putting down the controller that just made it more ridiculous. That is the only time I've ever felt like the game was needlessly unforgiving, and fortunately they fixed it by making the cost only 500 souls per level.
I don't think an easy mode would really fit the setting of Dark Souls.
Unlike most other games with a similar setting, it doesn't just talk the talk, it walks the walk. It doesn't just show you it's a merciless dark fantasy world, it is a merciless dark fantasy world. The fact that everything looks brutal, monstrous, and uncaring is supported by the tough gameplay.
Adding an easy mode to that would strip the setting of its "mojo".
Unlike most other games with a similar setting, it doesn't just talk the talk, it walks the walk. It doesn't just show you it's a merciless dark fantasy world, it is a merciless dark fantasy world. The fact that everything looks brutal, monstrous, and uncaring is supported by the tough gameplay.
Adding an easy mode to that would strip the setting of its "mojo".
There already is a easy mode, it's called using magic.
Seriously though, Dark Souls isn't nearly as hard as people imply it would be. It takes some time to get into it and can be punishing, but as soon as you get used to it it's pretty easy for the most part. Unless you purposefully gimp yourself in some way of course.
Seriously though, Dark Souls isn't nearly as hard as people imply it would be. It takes some time to get into it and can be punishing, but as soon as you get used to it it's pretty easy for the most part. Unless you purposefully gimp yourself in some way of course.
Just wanted to point out that that isn't a bug. It's called a partial parry or a block parry. It means that you're parrying a little too late, but if you take a look at how much HP is being depleted, you'll see that it's less than if you took the blow straight-on.Waaghpowa said:
More on-topic, I would be a little sad to see an easier difficulty mode be introduced. The great thing with the two Souls games is that they put a strong emphasis on the fact that your character is just another adventurer. S/he is not the Dragonborn, and the only hope for humanity, nor is s/he the strongest dark lord the universe has ever seen.
If your character fails in whatever, another adventurer will come along to replace them, just as your character has replaced countless other failed "heroes". I mean, you can see the remnants of other adventurers from other time periods and other dimensions (through the blood stains, and seeing the outline of other players), and those other adventurers can be summoned as aid, or invade with their malevolent designs. I find it oddly beautiful, and it's easily the best example of gameplay integrated with narrative that I can think of. Basically, I think stripping Dark Souls of its difficulty would contradict what the entire game is so minutely built around.
If you were to make this game easier, the best way to do it would be by including a proper tutorial. Explain bonfires, humanity, weapon upgrading, kindling, equipment load all that stuff, to us properly, and the game would still be exactly as satisfying but a fair bit easier. Because as is, you just have to look that stuff up on the wiki or guess if you want to get anywhere.
Making the game actually easier by weakening the enemies or something though? No, that'd spoil it, to me.
Making the game actually easier by weakening the enemies or something though? No, that'd spoil it, to me.
Hey. I'll chime in here in a rather trigger-response fashion.Waaghpowa said:
I know what you mean about the lack of explanation, expose or proper introduction. Thing is, though, that I actually like it. I also went to the graveyard first, because it's the first thing I 'discovered'. The skeletons sure killed me. Was it frustrating? Nah, just... enraging. Then I discovered the 'proper' route and that one felt so very easy after my first futile attempts at poking those nasty skeletons. I think the interaction with NPCs together with the audio (music and environmental sfx) really builds up an ambiance of dread, doom, futility and very, very little hope. I found that to be much more inspiring and motivating than crash boom bang hey presto you're the ctulhu-born saviour of mankind, pooped into the world to be awesome. That's OK at times (I really like Skyrim), but Dark Souls (and its predecessor for that matter) do it decidedly differently, and I find that to be a really, really good thing.
As for the countering and parrying properly - After many, many hours of metaphysical flow within both Dark and Demon's Souls, I think it's safe to say that the implementation of RPG math hidden under the hood of actiony mechanics in both games is pretty much awesome. Even though I started out as a nimble rogue, I played through half the game without even attempting to backstab or counter, as my first attempts with black knights were not too encouraging, so I went Mario and climbed all the ladders I could find to snipe the hell out of the big bad black ones until I had a change of heart and decided to learn how to do things proper, and in all my following playthroughs, things were much easier, because I actually knew what I was doing, and I knew how to do it. My first playthrough took about ten times as much time, because I felt genuinely afraid of missing something... and, yes, I killed one NPC character because of bad controller handling, I stuck a poisoned throwing knife right between her eyes. The moment she cried out in agony, walking backwards into her black hole home while cursing me felt really, really bad. I took much more care with placing the controller down and not pressing any buttons when I didn't mean to... it really has to be said that these two games are, to me, what playing electronic games is all about. They invaded my dreams proper, they inspired me, the had me hooked for some weekends, and they sucked up some time I still don't feel I lost, because I really, really enjoyed the ride.
Can you imagine how good it felt to discover the stairs leading down right next to the Crestfallen warrior? Sure, I joined the online community - another great part of the game - eventually, but before that, discovering stuff actually meant something!
It came with a mouse?!Jaythulhu said:
I thought everyone was talking about how unplayable it was with a mouse and that a gamepad was like, mandatory
edit: I actually tried it, and it's a little nauseating cause it jerks around. I've found that actually using the keyboard for 100% of everything helps with that though (after some reconfig of course)