Dark Souls: Initial Thoughts

[Daystar Clarion]

Edit: fail post is fail

 

[AJax_21]

Well, after sinking 10 hours in I think I'm ready to pass my judgement.

First the cons:

- Well, I definitely understand and applaud From Soft. for changing the level design to an open-world style, I'm not really liking it as much as Demon's Souls. Sure, Demon's Souls hub world design made it easier overall because you could tackle the areas in any order you want. Also, I found the Nexus a much more comforting place to rest, buy and store gear and level up than the bonfires. Also this:


So comforting...

- Vendors and merchants scattered around the world instead of placed in one area. Not a major issue but still a minor pet peeve.

- Buying your own store box, seriosly?!

- Framerate, seriously the game chugs in a lot of open areas especially that underground lake.

Other than that, IT'S FUCKING AWESOME! Talk about surpassing my expectations, I walked in to this game expecting more of the same since I loved Demon's Souls so much. From Soft. have done the impossible, they've somehow made a harder than freakin' Demon's Souls. I'm loving everything, the design, the combat, the bosses, everything. I'm calling it, this is my game of the year.

Good job From Software!

 

[JayDub147]

First of all, I'm loving it. Never played Demon's Souls (don't have a PS3), but I grabbed it on Tuesday and already put in over 12 hours.

However, to everyone who thinks that this game is fair:

Spoiler

...it mostly is. However, there are some things that are just mean-spirited on the part of the developers.

The main example I've got, and has been mentioned by a number of reviewers, is the basilisks in The Depths, a level that bad enough (I know the levels are supposed to be dreary, but most of them are an interesting kind of dreary. I've never been a fan of sewer levels). For those of you that don't know, these are frog-like creatures that spit out a dense fog. If you get caught in the fog, you die immediately. Then, once you respawn, you find out that you've been cursed, and your health is cut in half. The only way to get rid of the curse is a consumable item that can be bought for 3000 or 6000 souls, depending on the seller. Oh, and did I mention that the effect stacks?

Additionally, they made becoming human far too risky. I know death is generally not unfair, but invevitably, you will die, and there's no way to get back the humanity you put into your human form. I think they should have at least let you get it back if you reach your corpse, like they do with souls. Otherwise, everyone will just end up playing Hollowed, and that really devalues the online experience, as you need to be human to summon anyone. If you actually need to summon someone for help, than the situation is too dangerous to go into human form in the first place.

And also, the Great Grey Wolf Sif. Awesome boss, but damn if he's not unfair to up-close types. Or maybe it's just the fact that I've been stuck fighting him for over 90 minutes.I know that he's probably meant for higher level folk, but some of the attacks just get unfair (especially his double spin attack).

But nonetheless, I've still been having a grand time.

 

[Antag]

That's not reward. That's just gullibility. I'm staggered how From Software have managed to pull the wool over so many people's eyes with this. This has to be the greatest con job in gaming history; it truly is the emperor's new clothes. The game gives the player absolutely nothing to work with. It doesn't even properly explain the stats.

on top of that my continued deaths at the hands of the zombies in the burg has meant one of my two swords is now usless. That's right, the game also has weapon degradation. So not only do you enjoy the frustration of continually dying and respawning in a badly laid out environment but your weapon will wear out. There's no where to fix this at all!

Difficulty is one thing.

This is something else.

- The sense of achievement IS there, you just have to - you know - WORK for it.
- You CAN repair weapons.
- The stats are explained. If you hit a button when in the 'Level Up' menu, it explains the advantages of increasing that certain point.
- The same goes for weapons. Hit a certain button while over a weapon and it explains everything to you. In the end, other RPGs have had less intuitive menus.

i didn't say weapons can't be repaired. I said I haven't reached the point where this is possible.

At the point where you are you can already buy an item for repairing your weapons at campfires. You can buy arrows as well. The merchant for that is very close to the bonfire where you're respawning even.

Then there's that black knight you keep getting slaughtered by. Maybe you haven't noticed, but he's optional. If you can't handle him right now you can just skip him and come back later. I'd recommend that even as he's a pain, much harder then any enemies that'll be on your path for a while.

The fire bombing enemies can be a bit annoying at first, but nothing more then that. I died a couple of times to them and only because I was rushing. Take the game at a slower pace and you should be fine.

Only thing I'll agree with you is that not a lot of it is explained. Stats can be checked, but a lot of mechanics are left in the dark. And the menus are pretty bad, icons are nowhere near as clear as they should be.

Personally I'm digging the game. Didn't play demon's souls and I definitely got my ass handed to me quite a bit when I was in the Undead Burg, but now that I've gotten past it I've learned the mechanics and I'm doing pretty well.

 

[QueenOliver]

This snobbery and elitism that's woken in gamers in the wake of Dark Souls is as unpleasant as it is childish.

People that champion this are the sort of people that don't want innovatioon or originality in game design; they are the sort of people that lambast 'weaker' gamers because they themselves got teased for playing video games. It's a sort of survival of the shittiest.

Quit projecting your own character flaws onto others. You're the one here acting like you're better than other people. All anyone has pointed out here is that if you are having this much trouble this early on in the game, your skills are obviously lacking. You on the other hand have consistently attacked people's character over their taste in video games. I think you're projecting your childishness onto others as well.

I managed to get to the first bell tower without losing any souls whatsoever. I made it to the Taurus demon with relative ease, and killed him on my first try. While I would consider my skills slightly above average for single player games,I am by no means some gaming god. Face facts. The problem isn't that the game is cheap or unfair. You lack the skills to progress.

Before you cry "elitism" again, keep in mind that it is not elitism to say that you lack skill in a video game, because no one is judging your character based on those grounds (though I imagine some are judging it based on others).

Demon's Souls and Dark Souls require tight reflexes, smart character building, and experimentation, and judging from the descriptions of your experience you may be lacking in all three. Do you realize that if you want to get good at parrying you can just practice with enemies near the bonfire? Parry, riposte, kill, return to bonfire. Rinse, repeat. Even if you die you only have a short ways to travel to your blood-stain, so the risk is minimal. You complain that the only way to improve your skills is in the heat of battle. Try grinding in low risk areas for a while. Not only will you improve your stats, you will learn enemies attack animations and figure out when they're vulnerable. You missed the merchant who can sell you arrows. The world is riddled with secrets and hidden paths. Be thorough while exploring. These are the sorts of things players have done to progress, and we've had a blast doing it.

I doesn't bother me that you don't like the game. In fact I'm sorry that after spending money on it you haven't found the enjoyment that I and others have. But quit this psychoanalysis nonsense saying how we only like the game because we're hoping it will boost our status in the eyes of others. As Jim Sterling said, nobody cares how good you are at video games. Not only is your assertion a fallacious appeal to motive, it's profoundly obnoxious to label us all liars. I don't care for sports games, but I don't point at Madden players and say "Ha, ha, ha! They only like the game because they're failures at sports IRL!" I don't look at WoW players and cackle "Oh you silly automatons! Keep playing in your little skinner-box like gerbils!" So why do you say "You Dark Souls players are just trying to look tough"? Does it simply not occur to you that there's something we find compelling? I'm amazed at the amount of patience this forum has shown you given the colossal amount of hater-ade and character assassination you've spewed.

 

[microwavefriendly]

Yeah, that's not what irony is.

It's obvious you're having a lot of trouble with the game, but is that the game's fault?

I'm doing fine, because I understand the mechanics and how everything works (I played Demon's Souls, so that's no surprise).

Yes, the game doesn't hold your hand and tell you exactly what you need to do or where to find things, but that's part of the charm.

But you really are stating things you don't like as if they were design faults, which they're not.

I'm not asking where to find things. Nor am I asking for my hand to be held. If subtlety of expression and opinion is lost on you then go learn it before continuing. This snobbery and elitism that's woken in gamers in the wake of Dark Souls is as unpleasant as it is childish.

snobbery?
you criticized the game before playing it.
but i am glad that you are now playing the game.

i don't mean to be an ass, but seriously, you need to calm down a little. this game is developed on a mentality that is the antithesis of modern gaming. essentially, Dark Souls is heir to the original Legend of Zelda. that game explained nothing and left you in a world without a guide or a clue to where anything was or what anything was. Even the original Final Fantasy did this. Dark Souls does the same.

i am sorry if you are used to having cushions in games, but the game isn't impossible. people have been giving you some good tips and information, yes among the criticizing. the game is learn-able and malleable, but within its own mechanics and it isn't meant to be a cake walk. ninety percent of the game is trial and error.
-watch how enemies attack, while there is not a pattern, you can notice certain movements and body language about how certain enemies behave.
-notice all the stats work on both your character and your gear. not all shields absorb every point of damage dealt when blocking.
-the "equip capacity" relates directly to how your character moves and how much stamina is drained by actions.
-classes really only have to deal with starting gear and stats. from there, you are free to develop and wear as you please (although you have to find the characters to teach you magic. but even that is balanced since magic is so powerful).

again, i am sorry you are having a difficult time but this game is exceptionally well designed. Possibly to the point where it works against the player and forces them to actively conform to its system and mechanics. This severe and unwavering learning curve forces people away because of how unsettling dissimilar this game is from all others (save demon's souls). the game does not pander to the player, instead the game panders to the game and its own mechanics. Once the mechanics are understood, the game becomes easier. It is still difficult since the game continually throws new and horrible challenges at you, but nothing in the game is impossible.

good luck.

 

[microwavefriendly]

oh...it double posted...sorry.

 

[QueenOliver]

Well, after sinking 10 hours in I think I'm ready to pass my judgement.

First the cons:

- Well, I definitely understand and applaud From Soft. for changing the level design to an open-world style, I'm not really liking it as much as Demon's Souls. Sure, Demon's Souls hub world design made it easier overall because you could tackle the areas in any order you want. Also, I found the Nexus a much more comforting place to rest, buy and store gear and level up than the bonfires. Also this:


So comforting...

- Vendors and merchants scattered around the world instead of placed in one area. Not a major issue but still a minor pet peeve.

- Buying your own store box, seriosly?!

- Framerate, seriously the game chugs in a lot of open areas especially that underground lake.

Other than that, IT'S FUCKING AWESOME! Talk about surpassing my expectations, I walked in to this game expecting more of the same since I loved Demon's Souls so much. From Soft. have done the impossible, they've somehow made a harder than freakin' Demon's Souls. I'm loving everything, the design, the combat, the bosses, everything. I'm calling it, this is my game of the year.

Good job From Software!

Personally I love the more open-world. The number of surprises I've come across as I push along each of the branching paths bit by bit really enrich the experience. I mean one minute it's a pack of cats with crocodile jaws, and the next it's a massive hydra that spits deadly blasts of water at you. The environments and enemies are so much more varied than before. The merchants spread out all over is indeed a bit of a pain, but it's only a little different from having the different merchants and smiths distributed across the each world in Demon's Souls. Like with the nexus, numerous merchants are localized around Firelink Shrine, though of course you can't warp back there at any time (though there is a covenant that allows warping between bonfires). And of course, all of the most important functions are available at every bonfire.

I also much prefer the bonfires to the previous structure. You can locate numerous bonfires throughout each world now and form a more frequent checkpoint system. In the previous system you couldn't reach a new spawn point until you defeated a boss.

I like how you can now two-hand a bow even if it's in your left hand. I would have liked to be able to free-aim with magic spells though. It's almost impossible to hit a target without a lock-on. Also, switching between catalysts and talismans in Demon's Souls was pretty awkward at times, and now it's even more tricky with pyromancies added to the equation.

My biggest complaint is the way you can't check how many souls you need to level up until you already have the necessary amount. You can still estimate, but the flaw wasn't present in Demon's Souls, and it makes no sense why it's here now.

I also don't like how changing lock-on targets now requires you to quickly jerk the right thumbstick, where before IIRC you just had to gently nudge it.

Finally, I really hope they improve the online functionality. I've had some success and fun with it, but everyone's complaints with it are well-founded.

 

[QueenOliver]

The main example I've got, and has been mentioned by a number of reviewers, is the basilisks in The Depths, a level that bad enough (I know the levels are supposed to be dreary, but most of them are an interesting kind of dreary. I've never been a fan of sewer levels). For those of you that don't know, these are frog-like creatures that spit out a dense fog. If you get caught in the fog, you die immediately. Then, once you respawn, you find out that you've been cursed, and your health is cut in half. The only way to get rid of the curse is a consumable item that can be bought for 3000 or 6000 souls, depending on the seller. Oh, and did I mention that the effect stacks?

Additionally, they made becoming human far too risky. I know death is generally not unfair, but invevitably, you will die, and there's no way to get back the humanity you put into your human form. I think they should have at least let you get it back if you reach your corpse, like they do with souls. Otherwise, everyone will just end up playing Hollowed, and that really devalues the online experience, as you need to be human to summon anyone. If you actually need to summon someone for help, than the situation is too dangerous to go into human form in the first place.

I think the cursed status ailment is pretty damn cool. Especially since it allows you to fight ghosts. Trying to stay out of that gas they spew while trying to make my way out of those sewers was one of the most intense gaming experiences I've ever had.

As for the humanity, the game is far more generous than Demon's Souls was. The equivalent in Demon's Souls were the Stones of Ephemeral Eyes, and they were not easy to come across. I'm constantly stumbling across humanity drops from rats without even trying to farm them.

 

[AlternatePFG]

So I've played it for a couple of hours, and so far, while I really, really like it, the open world aspect makes it really confusing for me to tell where to go.

How do you beat that bridge boss by the way? Is there a particular strategy to it?

I think I'm probably going to have to start a new character now that I have a decent feel for the game, just like I did in Demon's Souls.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

So I've played it for a couple of hours, and so far, while I really, really like it, the open world aspect makes it really confusing for me to tell where to go.

How do you beat that bridge boss by the way? Is there a particular strategy to it?

I think I'm probably going to have to start a new character now that I have a decent feel for the game, just like I did in Demon's Souls.

The Tauros Demon?

Well the easiest way to do it, is by killing the two archers on the roof of the room you enter the bridge from (there's a ladder on the right).

Then run up the bridge and start the fight, quickly run back to the ladder and climb onto the roof. Run off the roof, and while your falling, hit your light attack button, you should stab the dude in the face for around a quarter/third of his HP bar (depending on your stats).

Lead him up the bridge, then run by him again, rinse and repeat.

 

[JayDub147]

The main example I've got, and has been mentioned by a number of reviewers, is the basilisks in The Depths, a level that bad enough (I know the levels are supposed to be dreary, but most of them are an interesting kind of dreary. I've never been a fan of sewer levels). For those of you that don't know, these are frog-like creatures that spit out a dense fog. If you get caught in the fog, you die immediately. Then, once you respawn, you find out that you've been cursed, and your health is cut in half. The only way to get rid of the curse is a consumable item that can be bought for 3000 or 6000 souls, depending on the seller. Oh, and did I mention that the effect stacks?

Additionally, they made becoming human far too risky. I know death is generally not unfair, but invevitably, you will die, and there's no way to get back the humanity you put into your human form. I think they should have at least let you get it back if you reach your corpse, like they do with souls. Otherwise, everyone will just end up playing Hollowed, and that really devalues the online experience, as you need to be human to summon anyone. If you actually need to summon someone for help, than the situation is too dangerous to go into human form in the first place.

I think the cursed status ailment is pretty damn cool. Especially since it allows you to fight ghosts. Trying to stay out of that gas they spew while trying to make my way out of those sewers was one of the most intense gaming experiences I've ever had.

As for the humanity, the game is far more generous than Demon's Souls was. The equivalent in Demon's Souls were the Stones of Ephemeral Eyes, and they were not easy to come across. I'm constantly stumbling across humanity drops from rats without even trying to farm them.

I suppose. Out of curiousity, are you usually human, because I have not been so lucky with item drops?

 

[Brian Hendershot]

Screw Dark Souls! I'm still trying to beat Demon Souls. These game releases are killing me here!

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I beat the giant Bull Demon thing, but now I'm stuck by the dragon with no idea where to go, do I brave the fire it spews out and try to run past it? Do I backtrack? What do I dooooooooo? T_T

Also that Black Knight in the first area is bloody brutal, I'm not even sure why he's there... >.>

EDIT: Also, I have no idea how to use those shards that give combat bonuses to my items, they would be useful if I knew how to use 'em.

Also, there's a lot of crap in my inventory, I just wish I could sell it instead of being forced to drop it. T_T

Alright, tackling these one at a time.

The bridge with the dragon has a staircase in the middle of it on the right. You will have to survive a fire blast to get there. While under there, one of the sides shows the dragon's tail swinging exposed. Shoot it with arrows until you get the Drake Sword. Best early weapon in the game. It requires 16 Strength and 10 Dexterity.

The Black Knights should be taken on later on. If you feel gutsy, backstabs are the best way to beat them now.

There is a blacksmith under Firelink Shrine that sells Sorcerer stuff and will repair/enhance your equipment. Take the staircase behind the bonfire past the mute woman and take the elevator. He is in New Lando Ruins. Just go right until you hit a staircase. He is down that. After you ring both Bells, a NPC will appear at Firelink Shrine that trades souls for your stuff.

 

[RagnaThePig]

So, I was exploring a green forest called Darkroot Garden and I got attacked by a big rat covered with spines rolling toward me at high speed.

Did I just get killed by Sonic the Hedgehog ?

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I beat the giant Bull Demon thing, but now I'm stuck by the dragon with no idea where to go, do I brave the fire it spews out and try to run past it? Do I backtrack? What do I dooooooooo? T_T

Also that Black Knight in the first area is bloody brutal, I'm not even sure why he's there... >.>

EDIT: Also, I have no idea how to use those shards that give combat bonuses to my items, they would be useful if I knew how to use 'em.

Also, there's a lot of crap in my inventory, I just wish I could sell it instead of being forced to drop it. T_T

Best early weapon in the game. It requires 16 Strength and 10 Dexterity.

Technically, isn't the Black Knight Sword better?

Its damage is 5 higher. But it is slower to swing and harder to get. And I heard that the stat requirements were pretty high. So not really.
20 Str/Dex 18. And it is a rare drop.

 

[Jodah]

Semi-spoilerish spoilers.

Spoiler

I nerd raged on the Capra Demon so hard I almost gave up forever. Then I calmed down 7 hours later and tried again. Finally managed to get up the stairs and cheese his ass without getting trapped in a corner and gang raped by the dogs...

 

[MisterShine]

Picked it up yesterday, I had played Demons Souls for a bit, liked it but unfortunately it was a friends copy and I don't have a PS3 so I never really got to sink my teeth into it. Ecstatic they made a 360 version. Its so good I'm actually playing it instead of the Old Republic beta.

I can't really think of higher praise than that.

To be critical, I do wish that the boss fights were a tad less trial-and-error, especially since I haven't seen one that doesn't lock you into the fight, meaning ot get your lost souls from dying you can't actually book it back to a fire and spend them to get better, you need to either cut your losses or grind without them. I think the challenge of making it back to the boss room without dying again should've been enough.

I do have some questions for the people who've been playing:

1. How open world is it really? I slew the Tauros demon and am now wandering around the blacksmith kind of lost, and I'm wondering when does the game "open up" like say Oblivion, or doesn't it, and how big roughly is it?

2. And, where is the god-damned pyromancing trainer? All I can find on google are the more advanced guys. I'm almost level 20 now and I've been forced to play my Pyro as basically a warrior with rechargeable incendiary bombs, since I can't find any other skills to train I put most of my stats into Str and Vit so I'm not so squishy. I'd really like some proper spells for my spell casting class!

 

[RagnaThePig]

1. How open world is it really? I slew the Tauros demon and am now wandering around the blacksmith kind of lost, and I'm wondering when does the game "open up" like say Oblivion, or doesn't it, and how big roughly is it?

2. And, where is the god-damned pyromancing trainer? All I can find on google are the more advanced guys. I'm almost level 20 now and I've been forced to play my Pyro as basically a warrior with rechargeable incendiary bombs, since I can't find any other skills to train I put most of my stats into Str and Vit so I'm not so squishy. I'd really like some proper spells for my spell casting class!

1 - It's absolutely not open world like Oblivion, but all the levels connect to each other in several ways, forming a big labyrinth. It's open the same way a Metroidvania is open.

2 - I found a guy who knows pyromancy in the lower city under Undead Burg. You need a key to get there though and I don't remember where it is.

 

[QueenOliver]

I suppose. Out of curiousity, are you usually human, because I have not been so lucky with item drops?

I play as human when necessary. I'll consume some humanity and strategically consume some more to kindle several bonfires in a row. If I'm planning on heading for a boss I may retake human form to summon a co-op buddy. While in human form you can also summon an NPC for assistance before a boss fight.

My point is really that the new approach to human form is better than the old one. In Demon's Souls I would usually kill myself in the Nexus if I regained my body. Dying in body form in one of the worlds would shift the world tendency closer to black, making the game even more difficult. I'm glad they did away with that mechanic. You were also at risk of being invaded in body form, and once again, dying in that form would shift WT to black. In Dark Souls, there is no added penalty for dying in human form, other than becoming hollowed. Humanity is much easier to come across, but it's still a precious item that you don't want to squander, so I think they hit a good balance.

If you're desperately in need of humanity there are easy ways to get more. As I said,rats will occasionally drop humanity, particularly in the Depths. When you get to the first bonfire down there, there's a little stretch with about 15 rats which is good for farming. It may take a while to get a drop, but once you do you can consume it to gain a couple humanity points and improve your drop rate. There are also the ceiling slimes near the bonfire that you can kill during each farming run to gain weapon upgrade materials. They're vulnerable to fire.

Right now I have about 40 humanity in my inventory and can always go back if I need more. I generally walk around with at least 2 humanity in my meter and use it to regain human form when necessary.