Dark Souls: Initial Thoughts

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QueenOliver

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ghost whistler said:
Dr.Panties said:
Would you care for a tear-flavoured thickshake to wash down your fail burger (with weak sauce) and bitterness fries combo?
No thanks, I have a life.
Then perhaps you should spend it doing something better with it than play video games you don't like. Oh, but of course...

ghost whistler said:
I paid for it, I intend to get my money's worth.
The game was totally honest about what it offered, the critics accurately described the experience, and you didn't think you would like it. But you bought it anyway, and that's how you justify burning through your leisure time on a (7/10?!) experience that you're not enjoying? "I threw away my money and now I must throw away my time as well!" Did you seriously pay full price for it? Because if so you must be doing damn well in this economy to be so reckless with your money.

ghost whistler said:
The targetting system desperately needs a fix.

I'm trying to make it past the slimey things on the roof in the deopths, but because the lock on will not allow me to target them except in one case only I can't bring them off the roof.

No wonder this game is considered difficult.
Epic fail. You don't need a lock-on to hit them, either with arrows, or magic.

ghost whistler said:
I'm sure they do. But that's not really a solution. This is just crappy game design. 42000 souls? fuck that.
Oh noes! My actions have consequences! Damn you From!

ghost whistler said:
Got to the garden and that's me done. I can't deal with mobs that can just take off 90% of your health with one move you can't see coming, and when they spawn multiples at once you are just too slow to get a move inbetween all their attacks.
Are you talking about the bushmen? Epic fail. You only ever have to fight one, occasionally two, or in one single instance three. That is unless you are recklessly charging throughout the level alerting them. And they are far from difficult to defeat. And 90% of your health? Are you talking about their bite attack? Epic, epic fail. You can see that attack coming from a mile away. They do a distinctive animation before they attack where they raise their "arms" above their "heads" before they attack, and it's very easy to dodge.
 

QueenOliver

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Condiments said:
You act as if the game personally offends you for being difficult. Most of us have progressed smoothly, so the game must not be for you.
Guyz! Guyz! I just played the worst game evar! It's called poker. It's a card game where you wager your money based upon how good your hand is. If someone else?s hand beats your hand you lose your wager! I lost $500 last night! And if you want to win your money back you have to start ALL over again with a new hand. And your opponents will bluff that they have a good hand when they don?t! Unfair! Whoever thought this game up doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground, and anyone who enjoys this game is an idiot.
 

Fiz_The_Toaster

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I'm loving it so far, I'm still in Undead Burg though and I'm just level grinding since that damn Taurus has been kicking my ass.

Not a fan of the targeting system, but everything else is great.
 

Dansen

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Try a new class, and a new set of weapons, when ever I get frustrated it helps me relax.

I found the Zweihandler great sword and I have devoted my knight character to mastering this weapon, it is weaker than the Flying Dragon Sword but is still amazing. The light swing is enough to stager any regular enemies. The heavy swing face plants any regular enemy and is enough to stager full blown bosses. Even though each swing leaves you wide open your enemies will be to busy recovering from your hit to even attack, and the reach of the blade ensures that almost all the enemies in front of you will have been hit. I love this sword!
 

ultrachicken

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demoman_chaos said:
ultrachicken said:
None of the "uber strong guys" are mandatory, unless you count bosses. The metal bull, the black knights, the dragon, etc. can and should all be skipped. Basically, if you're getting completely stomped by any enemy, find a different route. It's kind of like the red eye knight in 1-1 in Demon's Souls. I would say that Dark Souls is actually more fair than Demon's Souls, because there are fewer one-hit-kill booby traps that are activated by a contraption that looks exactly like the scenery.
I strongly disagree. Demon's Souls at least made it obvious which areas were for the low levels, unlike Dark Souls which is in the same genre as Metroid and Castlevania 2 (a Where-The-Fuck-Do-I-Go RPG). The Red Eye in 1-1 (not the SMB 1-1, I don't think he was in that 1-1.... or was he?) was well out of the way.
Keeping in line with the Red Eye Knight example, it was not out of the way. Unless you're in the habit of routinely skipping enemies, you're going to kill the archer near the entrance to the bridge that has the red eye knight, very possibly before you even see that there's fog in the other direction. With Dark Souls, the only enemies that are placed on the main path who are way above your level are the dragon and the bull. Dragon's appeared in a very similar fashion in Demon's souls multiple times, and the bull is right after you get a shortcut back to the bonfire, so the punishment is not that intense for death.

I also disagree that the game is designed to have you just wander around the levels ? or at least, forces you to wander around the levels. For example, you get the information very early on that you need to ring a bell in the undead church, and in blight town. The undead church is up above, and is also a church, so you know you're generally headed upwards, and that you're looking for a church building. If you find yourself dueling to the death against a Dark Knight on top of a small tower, with no path to anywhere, and you're getting destroyed, just run as far back to the nearest checkpoint as possible to lose him and then continue. Definitely takes some getting used to to play in that mindset, but it's nowhere near as difficult to do so as you make it out to be (at least for me).
 

Jadak

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ghost whistler said:
Fiz_The_Toaster said:
I'm loving it so far, I'm still in Undead Burg though and I'm just level grinding since that damn Taurus has been kicking my ass.

Not a fan of the targeting system, but everything else is great.
level grinding won't help you.
Level grinding helps everything. Might not help "enough", but it'll help. ;)
 

Jadak

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ghost whistler said:
The targetting system desperately needs a fix.

I'm trying to make it past the slimey things on the roof in the deopths, but because the lock on will not allow me to target them except in one case only I can't bring them off the roof.

No wonder this game is considered difficult.
Not sure what issues you're having there, I've had no problems with the lock on for the slimes on the roof. Worst case, you can always run by and they'll fall, then you can shoot them (or just whack them, the things don't do much).
 

Jadak

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ghost whistler said:
They would be easier to shoot with a soul arrow if the soul arrow went where the camera was pointing as the game won't lock onto them. You can try and roll past, but it's pure luck. It's easier on the way back, for some reason. The targeting system with magic is so bad even when locked on.
And they may not do much, but what they can do is erode the fuck out of your weapon as you hit them.
I can definitely see where they'd be a pain in the ass if you can't lock on, but one way or the other that's not an intentional trait of the slimes, as I can lock on to them perfectly fine, either a bug or something you're overlooking.

Can't really remember now that I think about it, but possibly most of the times I've run past the slimes have been from behind, in which case I'd assume they're just facing one direction and don't drop down as quickly if you come from the other way. Perhaps I've just gotten lucky with that, never actually have had one land on me other than the very first one you see.

Can't say I've ever paid much attention to weapon erosion, found the repairs pretty trivial regardless to what I was doing, suppose it depends on the weapon.
 

Jadak

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ghost whistler said:
Not really. I've levelled up in the game, can't say i noticed much of a difference beyond str requirements for the drake sword and black knight shield i wield, and endurance for the silly weight limit. It wont' make sod all difference against the bosses. The tactics to win agains them don't require a higher level. Making mobs and bosses hit so hard in the game is what contributes to the reason the difficulty being so high is a bad idea: there's no real reward for levelling up. If i level up in dragon age, for instance, i see a difference: i can learn a new ability and i feel a more tangible sense of accomplishment. Not the case here. Consequently it's just an increasingly tedious trudge through hard boss fights and whatnot with no real gain for your effort. So why bother; so you can brag on the internets that you are more epic than dark souls? Shit, by all means put that on your resume.
That really just applied to individual levels, which I'd agree are both boring and meaningless. But try doing anything at level 10 or so and then again at 50+, and it'll sure as hell be easier. Still boring, but every 10 levels or so apart is a pretty significant boost on all fronts. Certainly not an interesting boost, but tough enemies become pushovers as your resistance go up along with your damage output.

Of course, equipment is rather important as well, levelling up your stuff will make more of a difference than huge amounts of levels, but at the very least, getting more stamina makes the game easier on all fronts, with all actions both offensive and defensive requiring it. The more you can take on your shield without being exhausted and knocked the fuck out, the better.

But as you were getting at, in the end it all comes down to knowing the enemies attacks and getting the timing down. If you can't manage those aspects, you're likely screwed no matter what. All higher levels really do is make the game more lenient when you make mistakes, it won't change the outcome if you keep making them.
 

Xyphon

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AlternatePFG said:
I beat the Capra Demon after a few tries, but that fight was just bullshit. The difficulty in that fight was the combination of the stun-lock inducing dogs, terrible camera angles and really tight corridors. I don't mind difficult fights, but that just really wasn't fair.
I agree that the fight was complete and utter bullshit. After a bit of thinking I came up with a plan. Before I enter the fog, I wield my Drake Sword in 2 hands, kill the two douche-dogs using the special attack the very moment I have free movement, roll through the bastard and run my ass off to the ledge. From there, I lunge him when he's close and I firebomb his ass when he walks away.

Though I killed him, he managed to knock me off of the ledge with just a bit of hp left before he died. I panicked and just attacked him. A single hit from the most basic, armorless enemy would have killed me at that point.

Anyone know a good soul farming routine? I can't use the Dragon because he had a sudden heart attack and died after I killed the Capra Demon. Right now I'm killing the trees in Darkroot Garden to get 20k souls for the door key.
 

Bat Vader

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I have been wanting to rent Dark Souls but at the same time I am worried that it might be way too difficult for me. From what I hear it sounds like the game really punishes the player for dying.
 

QueenOliver

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ghost whistler said:
OOh look a snide fanboy!

Moan because i don't play the game, moan when I do. Whatever.
The game hasn' tbeen totally honest at all. It's precisely because you don't know what's coming that people get all excited by it. At least that's what they claim on forums like this: "i love the tension".
But I don't recall the game being honest about how useless armour is (beyond a weapon and a shield, armour is pointless excepting special qualities or powers since all it does is slow you down). Endurance is the most useful stat, by and large, to increase accordingly because the developers placed too much weight on weight.
Nor were they honest about the crappy camera, environment design and lock on system. Cramped quarters for the Capra demon fight? Check. Narrow corridors with ambushes around corners? Check.
Great. You enjoy that? Knock yourself out. Just give me a sensible manual save and let me play the game like a mature person with the tools to make the decision about how i want to plauy. DOn't come up with a save system so lame that the game quits when my internet, for whatever reason, cuts out. Pathetic. Even Dead Island doesn't do this.
The elitist twats playing this game are the worst thing in gaming and that is the game's most unforgiveable sin. "didn't succeed at doing x? ooh epic fail!" Get a life little man.
Ooh look, an ignoramus who can't argue his way out of a paper bag!

Once again, I don't give a crap what you think of the game, but all the same I am going to respond to your poorly founded points. I don't give a crap whether you play the game, and I have never given a crap whether or not you play the game. You bought a game that you didn't think you would like. The game was upfront about offering a challenging experience. You didn't think that would appeal to you but you bought it anyway, and now you continue to burn through your leisure time doing something you don't enjoy. I think this makes you moron. But by all means, keep playing the game and bellyaching about it. In a thread full of Dark Souls players you are ironically making yourself out to be the biggest masochist, not to mention the biggest whiner.

You continuously claim that your failures are due to bad controls and design, but then provide ample evidence to the contrary. If you can't avoid the bushmen's bite attack, it is because you are hopeless, and not because the game is unfair. The attack is preceded by a distinctive animation that makes it easy to predict, and has a very short attack range so it is easy to dodge. The fact that you have failed to learn this is one example of many that your repeated deaths are due to your poor observation skills and/or reflexes. That is why you have failed where others have triumphed. Others have taken a thoughtful approach, have carefully considered the tools at their disposal, and have experimented with their tactics.

Once again you shriek "ELITIST! ALERT!" when attention is drawn to the evidence of your poor skills. If a player is getting massacred by cloaked units in a game of Starcraft, am I being elitist if I point out their failure to build units that can detect cloaks? How DARE I have a better understanding of the game's mechanics. Do you cry elitism to deflect all of your failings in life? Is your driving instructor being elitist when he flunks you?

If you had thus far been more civil, I would have responded in kind and given you helpful tips without the snark, but you have consistently attacked the character of others, and I therefore feel no inclination to be patient with you.

Please go back to this glamorous life of yours and quit trying to break down the brick wall that is Dark Souls with your nose. My friends routinely massacre me at fighting games, but I don't whine about how unbalanced the characters are, or how my teeny tiny hands put me at a disadvantage. I admit to myself that my skills are lacking, evidenced by the fact that others have succeeded where I have failed. And when the experience ceases to be fun for me, I find something better to do. I have a nice meal. I go for a jog. I wash the dishes. I have sex. But yeah, I'm obviously the one who needs to get a life.
 

QueenOliver

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Xyphon said:
Anyone know a good soul farming routine? I can't use the Dragon because he had a sudden heart attack and died after I killed the Capra Demon. Right now I'm killing the trees in Darkroot Garden to get 20k souls for the door key.
Actually the best soul farming method I've found so far is through that door. There's a bonfire right hidden behind an illusory right beside the door which is essential to the speedy farming. Once you pass through the door into a wide open forest area you will see a hostile NPC nearby. Once he spots you he'll start firing soul arrows at you. You can dodge them fairly easily but you might still want a shield with good magic resistance. It's best to lure him towards you since there are other NPC's deeper into the forest who are much more difficult to kill, and will spot you if you wander too far in. The sorcery using NPC will net you 2000 souls per kill. Unless your stats are particularly high I suggest you kill him by luring him to the cliff, circling around him and then knocking him off. The halberd works well for this. You can repeatedly stab him with it, causing him to stagger backwards and fall to his death. After you have your souls you can run back to the bonfire to make him respawn and repeat the run. Once you get good at the run you can easily earn 2000 souls in less than a minute. With my current stats I can kill him quite easily without having to lure him off the cliff, and it takes my just shy of 40 seconds per run. Hope this helps.
 

Xyphon

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QueenOliver said:
Xyphon said:
Anyone know a good soul farming routine? I can't use the Dragon because he had a sudden heart attack and died after I killed the Capra Demon. Right now I'm killing the trees in Darkroot Garden to get 20k souls for the door key.
-snip-
You know, that area is the entire reason I'm trying to farm the 20k souls in the first place. :p
 

QueenOliver

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ghost whistler said:
I haven't whined about the game. The reason I call you an elitist snob is because of your facile attitude as demonstrated by the use of that word. People that point out the failings of a flawed game are not whiners. I've tried the game, it's not well made. Her's another example: backstab doesn't work properly. The positioning requirement is flawed. If i'm stood right behind somone who hasn't seen me, RB should backstab. It doesn't except on rare occassions. I don't need tips; i can get those from any google search. What i need is what the game developers don't have: an open mind. They have eschewed sensible design conventions as a result of self indulgence and narrow mindedness. Japanese game design has always been like this and it's the same here. The consequence isn't some well of 'old school' goodness; ti's a tired anachronistic hack and slash game with bad design and terrible lack of plot or direction. As a result the player isn't engaged and is more easily distracted. Coupled with the dreadful spawn/save system the end result is just tedious and overrated. I could point out, and have, the game's flaws to you and you still wont' get it. The worst thing about gaming are the fanboys and this game has them in spades.
You have whined. Nearly all of your points boil down to either you whining that the developers geared their game towards people other than you, or that you have gotten your ass kicked in places others managed to smoothly overcome.

Indeed, the backstab is considerably more difficult to execute than it was in Demon's Souls. I'm guessing they thought it was overpowered. Congratulations, you made a legitimate criticism. Make a few more and you might dig yourself out of the pit of stupid enough for us to see your eyebrows.

I have rebutted several of your criticisms, showing why your approach is leading you to failure, and you have simply ignored them and repeated "Bad design! Those silly Japanese!" because you are incapable of debating competently. That, and deflecting with cries of elitism. And keep ignoring my argument as to why my responses are not elitist. I'm not mocking you because you suck at the game. I'm mocking you because your arguments stink and you have a shitty attitude.

ghost whistler said:
QueenOliver said:
Hope this helps.
how exactly? did you actually read what he wanted help with?
He asked for a soul farming method, and he's still going to need a soul farming method when he gets the door open, so unless you have a better suggestion, quit being a smart-ass and move along.
 

Amondren

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Other then that framerate thing I've only encountered in 3 area's (3 too many if you ask me) I am having a great time I'm loving the game I'm using the Zweihander and it just ends EVERYTHING but yeah its great fun.
 

QueenOliver

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Xyphon said:
QueenOliver said:
Xyphon said:
Anyone know a good soul farming routine? I can't use the Dragon because he had a sudden heart attack and died after I killed the Capra Demon. Right now I'm killing the trees in Darkroot Garden to get 20k souls for the door key.
-snip-
You know, that area is the entire reason I'm trying to farm the 20k souls in the first place. :p
If your need for souls is going to completely evaporate when you get that door open, feel free to ignore my advice. In the meantime, it shouldn't take you long to get the door open with the souls dropped by enemies in Darkroot. Are you killing stone soldiers on your run as well? They're actually quite easy when you know what to do, and the five of them in the area before the Moonlight Butterfly will get you an extra 1500 souls per run. Also, if you don't know, bush monsters can be killed while they're still underground when you know where they are.
 

QueenOliver

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Amondren said:
Other then that framerate thing I've only encountered in 3 area's (3 too many if you ask me) I am having a great time I'm loving the game I'm using the Zweihander and it just ends EVERYTHING but yeah its great fun.
The only place for me where the framerate was a genuine hindrance was with the three Shadow the Hedgehog/Cat Monsters in Darkroot when more than one of them executed a rolling attack at once. We're talking single frames here. Killing them required a lot of caution and patience. Thank god they didn't respawn.

All of my other significant framerate hits have bizarrely been in places with me running through empty areas with little to nothing happening.
 

Bat Vader

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ghost whistler said:
gof22 said:
I have been wanting to rent Dark Souls but at the same time I am worried that it might be way too difficult for me. From what I hear it sounds like the game really punishes the player for dying.
which is a bizarre trait in a game whose tag (and website) is called prepare to die.

This and this alone is the aspect of the game that's a step too far. If you coudl at least fast travel between bonfires, that would be something.
When an enemy is killed does that enemy stay dead or does it respawn? I really hate enemies that respawn. When I play a game I want to feel like I am actually making a difference.