Dark Souls: Initial Thoughts

[Slycne]

Right, i have no idea how or what that means in game.

soul level can be seen in the level up screen, select (ps3) or back (360) will describe it.
hitting NPC's is classed as a sin, and to attone for that, the price is high (payment in souls suprise suprise) i think you have to pay after you ring the church bell

Does atonement actually bring them back or have some other effect? I was not paying proper attention and killed the undead male merchant in Undead Burg. It's been annoying playing without him, but I've gotten by so far. The katana he drops isn't to shabby either.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

Right, i have no idea how or what that means in game.

soul level can be seen in the level up screen, select (ps3) or back (360) will describe it.
hitting NPC's is classed as a sin, and to attone for that, the price is high (payment in souls suprise suprise) i think you have to pay after you ring the church bell

Does atonement actually bring them back or have some other effect? I was not paying proper attention and killed the undead male merchant in Undead Burg. It's been annoying playing without him, but I've gotten by so far. The katana he drops isn't to shabby either.

it stops them being hostile towards you.... as for NPC's you've killed? i've no idea sorry

 

[Slycne]

Right, i have no idea how or what that means in game.

soul level can be seen in the level up screen, select (ps3) or back (360) will describe it.
hitting NPC's is classed as a sin, and to attone for that, the price is high (payment in souls suprise suprise) i think you have to pay after you ring the church bell

Does atonement actually bring them back or have some other effect? I was not paying proper attention and killed the undead male merchant in Undead Burg. It's been annoying playing without him, but I've gotten by so far. The katana he drops isn't to shabby either.

it stops them being hostile towards you.... as for NPC's you've killed? i've no idea sorry

Oh well, the really only annoying consequence was not being able to get the drake sword until I picked up a bow in Darkroot.

 

[TheDooD]

It's only self defeating it you thinking it as such. Dark/Demon's Souls design is that you shouldn't fear failure and that every encounter can make you stronger. In fact in Dark Souls they made it easier for you. you just have to not be afraid of the danger out there.

That isn't the case. You don't learn from dying. You are simply forced to respawn. The act of dying in game doesn't intrinsically impart knowledge or favour. Every encounter doesn't make you stronger. It might garner souls, but unless you spend those souls, thereby respawning all the non-boss mobs again, you remain the same. You don't get to practise against bosses without going through all that repetition in order to get back to that boss. Even then they are so big and inexplicable it isn't particularly easy to learn what they do and how they work. The end result is people just use google, and that's the sign of poor game design. Players don't fear the danger they just don't enjoy pointless repetition in a game that thinks it's more than it is.

You really don't get the design of Dark Souls is easier then Demons Souls. The fact the bonfires respawn enemies, heals you, and restocks potions making grinding easy. If you know you're a bit weak grind the enemies by a bonfire. Infact they're a few spots where you can abuse the bonfire's effect to gain souls easily with little risk on your part. Also when you get killed by a boss trying a again after going through the route to get to it isn't that bad. Getting to the Taurus Demon is a cake walk the enemies are weak and you shouldn't be having a problem versus them if you strafe, backstab, block and counter attack. There's so many ways to tackle an enemy that each encounter is different.

The main thing you have to do is take it slow you aren't in a rush. The boss are big so guess what it's easy for you to read their movement. Next you shouldn't be locking on to them while you're in tight spaces that's common sense if you been playing games since the late 90's. Finally abuse the fucking dodge roll take off the shit you really don't need so you can dodge a bit faster. If you played Devil May Cry and or God of War you really shouldn't have problems with oversized bosses.

Next thing if players are using google or asking around that a good thing because guess what that means they're players that offered their hard earned struggles on a game for nothing to help others that have a hard time. If that's a sign of poor game design I guess EVERY SINGLE GAME WITH A GUIDE ON GAMEfaqs is an result in your mind of poor game design. Finally you must not realize all games are basically pointless repetition. It's just some people are hung up of being told what to do and when to do it all the time in their games. If you suck at Dark Souls so what you're not trying to prove anybody else. The reason why you can't co-op from off the bat because you're suppose to be alone, the entire game is suppose to be based off your own struggles. If you can't progress eventhough there's quite a few resources... It's an option select "Stay Free or Level Up"?

 

[demoman_chaos]

Demon's Souls was hard, Dark Souls is just cheap. Why do they throw so many random uber strong guys in the low level areas? Why do the lowliest of enemies still randomly half health me despite me having some strong armor? Why did they put the 2v1 boss fight so early in the game? Why did they make all the servers split so there are far less people to help and it is neigh impossible to tag with a friend? Why don't they give you any idea where ze hell to go and let me know when I am in an are not suitable for my level?

Demon's Souls is a much better game. The fact it was PS3 only is what I attribute to that fact. On PS3, all players were on the same server meaning more potential allies and messages. It was focused on single-player, with the multiplayer as a non-essential bonus.
Dark Souls is a multiplayer game that you almost have to do solo.

 

[AlternatePFG]

I tried looking for help, spending the last of my humanity (at the bonfire...respawning everything...again), to do so to complete the gargoyle fight because otherwise it's horrendous (the second one spews fire across the entire roof and you die), no one joins.

If you're in human form, you can summon an NPC to help you. He's on the other end of the bridge with the dragon on it. (When getting out, go to right instead of left onto the bridge.) The summon thing is right outside the entrance to the boss, it's slightly a different color from the messages. He'll tank the second gargoyle for you, while you deal with the first. It makes the fight really easy.

A heater shield really helps in the fight, it's resistant to fire. Don't roll out of the way from the flames, block and hold your shield while moving out of range.

If you need humanity, you're going to have to farm that group of three rats by the Undead Burg bonfire shortcut.

 

[ZeroMachine]

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Hey, if you guys aren't in the Dark Souls user group already, we are having a live chat where we discuss Dark Souls while we play.

http://tinychat.com/korten12

Join and talk with us.

Anyone else who also is interested in joining the chat, join!!!

Ohoohoo, totally joining in on that.

Also:

Disregard what you like. It's your lookout. Im not telling you what to enjoy, I'm telling what's wrong with the game. Unfortunately for the gaming hobby this game has seen fit to insert a crazy fog in people's minds that blinds them to a host of very obvious faults.

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please do remember that this is your opinion on what is wrong with the game, it may be a opinion which is shared by some people but it is still an opinion. You obviously do not like this game, that is fine. It happens. But please do not assume that we are being mislead and manipulated. I am not blind to some of the faults in this game, It just does not lessen the experience for me.

Thank you, i'm fully cogniscent of what an opinion is.

I didn't say it was a bad game. I said it was a badly made game.

For instance, if you accidentally attack an npc, there is no cooldown. This means if you accidentally hit a vendor/trainer you are screwed. That might sound amusing, and people may get a good chuckle out of it, but the shortsightedness of that design is embarassing in 2011, and arguing consequences in a game where you can come back to life is a bit fatuous.

These are not faults, these are consequences. The game is supposed to be brutal. It's supposed to be unforgiving of mistakes. It was what they talked about the whole time. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it bad design.

 

[AlternatePFG]

I have no humanity to get into human form. There's nowhere to get humanity. It's so hard to come by that's only been treasure or a boss. The only way to get it is to join another player but noone's looking. It's so cackhanded.
I've tried summoning solaire as well, but he's no use. That second gargoyle is really just absurd, but then that's the name of the game isn't it. Screw the player over. Fine, but that means i've lost humanity and can't recover it. Great. Those rats have never dropped humanity and i've lost interest in grinding at this point since, frankly, that's all i do. Plus getting between the burg and the parish is a massiv epain in the ass.
Don't have a heater shield. I have a black knight shield. I've never seen a heater shield.

Plague rats drop humanity. That's where I got most of mine. You're going to have to go back to the shortcut to the Undead Burg bonfire where you fight 3 plague rats, and just keep on having to respawn them if you want humanity. The heater shield can help, but it can be just as easily done with a knight shield or black knight shield. Blocking really reduces the fire damage. Did you get to the second bonfire, the one right outside the building with the Gargoyle in it? There's a blacksmith and bonfire in there, and from there you only have to fight a couple groups of enemies.

 

[crono738]

I tried looking for help, spending the last of my humanity (at the bonfire...respawning everything...again), to do so to complete the gargoyle fight because otherwise it's horrendous (the second one spews fire across the entire roof and you die), no one joins.

If you're in human form, you can summon an NPC to help you. He's on the other end of the bridge with the dragon on it. (When getting out, go to right instead of left onto the bridge.) The summon thing is right outside the entrance to the boss, it's slightly a different color from the messages. He'll tank the second gargoyle for you, while you deal with the first. It makes the fight really easy.

A heater shield really helps in the fight, it's resistant to fire. Don't roll out of the way from the flames, block and hold your shield while moving out of range.

If you need humanity, you're going to have to farm that group of three rats by the Undead Burg bonfire shortcut.

I have no humanity to get into human form. There's nowhere to get humanity. It's so hard to come by that's only been treasure or a boss. The only way to get it is to join another player but noone's looking. It's so cackhanded.
I've tried summoning solaire as well, but he's no use. That second gargoyle is really just absurd, but then that's the name of the game isn't it. Screw the player over. Fine, but that means i've lost humanity and can't recover it. Great. Those rats have never dropped humanity and i've lost interest in grinding at this point since, frankly, that's all i do. Plus getting between the burg and the parish is a massiv epain in the ass.
Don't have a heater shield. I have a black knight shield. I've never seen a heater shield.

The game is just too awkward and it's just tiresome trying to play it, frankly. I'm so annoyed that the devs allow players to attack npc's as well. What a fucked up idea. We all make mistakes, and we all overlook things. If we didn't there'd be no trade in strategy guides or internet walkthroughs.

If you're so tired of playing it, then sell it and stop bitching at everyone who likes it. Everything you've posted has pointed to you sucking at it. Lack of skill =/= bad game design.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

Right, i have no idea how or what that means in game.

soul level can be seen in the level up screen, select (ps3) or back (360) will describe it.
hitting NPC's is classed as a sin, and to attone for that, the price is high (payment in souls suprise suprise) i think you have to pay after you ring the church bell

So as the cost for a level 21 player, ie me, i'd have to pay 42000 souls to fix the situation?

Ok, that's crazy.

I wont deny that.
Do you think you'll stick it out, or trade is ASAP?

 

[Corven]

Um, it is hard, I haven't even made past the opening of the first level.

If only I knew how to take down the giant skeletons, thenI would be set.

You're going the wrong way is your main problem, you're supposed to head up first.

Quick derision from the subject of Dark Souls.....but what in sphincter-clenching christ is your avatar picture of?

Ziltoid The Omniscient, he's the main character from an interesting metal album (named Ziltoid The Omniscient) about a 4th dimensional alien that comes to the planet earth for the worlds best cup of coffee.

 

[AlternatePFG]

I beat the Capra Demon after a few tries, but that fight was just bullshit. The difficulty in that fight was the combination of the stun-lock inducing dogs, terrible camera angles and really tight corridors. I don't mind difficult fights, but that just really wasn't fair.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I beat the Capra Demon after a few tries, but that fight was just bullshit. The difficulty in that fight was the combination of the stun-lock inducing dogs, terrible camera angles and really tight corridors. I don't mind difficult fights, but that just really wasn't fair.

I thought that it was the other way around. The Capra Demon's pathfinding is terrible. If you can get up the stairs and kill the dogs, the fight is over. The demon will try to follow you--then fall. Do a plunging attack. And just repeat that.

 

[AlternatePFG]

I beat the Capra Demon after a few tries, but that fight was just bullshit. The difficulty in that fight was the combination of the stun-lock inducing dogs, terrible camera angles and really tight corridors. I don't mind difficult fights, but that just really wasn't fair.

I thought that it was the other way around. The Capra Demon's pathfinding is terrible. If you can get up the stairs and kill the dogs, the fight is over. The demon will try to follow you--then fall. Do a plunging attack. And just repeat that.

See, his pathfinding for me was pretty decent. Most of the time he'd get up the stairs, and there would be like a 50/50 chance of him doing that jumping downward slash attack that'd go through all my stamina and half my health if blocked. Eventually, I had to tank him on the ground and just slowly pick away at him, I only risked trying a plunging attack if I went upstairs to heal. Either way, I didn't find it to be very fun of a fight.

The Gargoyle fight just before that, on the other hand, I really liked. Gives you plenty of room to maneuver.

 

[Dansen]

Anybody know how to deal with ghosts?

 

[Aeonknight]

Anybody know how to deal with ghosts?

There's an item that gives you a sort of "temporary curse" that lets you actually deal dmg to them. I think if you get full blown cursed that works too, but half HP...... no thanks.

 

[The Wykydtron]

As for me; i'm currently in the undead burg. I made it, with about 1 point of health, to the Taurus demon. It killed me. I have no idea how you fight it and i'm not going to get the chance to learn without first going all the way back to the bonfire (which i'd done about 6 times already) in the burg. That's not a learning process that helps the player learn to fight the boss and tha'ts why placement of checkpoints is critical.

There is a ladder placed right besides the entrance, so that you can kill the crossbowmen on the top.
And a little tip, when you are rolling you are indestructible.

Do you think he knows that's he's supposed to jump off the tower and stab the Tauros Demon in the face?

OH SHIT! Really? Of course! Jump attack off the tower! It was staring me in the face the whole time!

Oh and when they say go below, do they mean New Londo or that swamp area with the water hydra?

Anyway back on topic, currently playing a Thief (first playthrough) who uses a massive two handed sword... Y'know the one you get for killing the crappy merchant in Undead Burg

I killed him in a fit of rage... This game has a weird attitude towards killing innocents

Kill (mostly) innocent merchant, get Humanity and a badass sword

Maybe not the best weapon for my class though, may go back to my spear cuz reach is everything to me in this game

Plus the placement of all the skeleton people between the Bonfire and the Tauros Demon has been etched into my very soul...

Crappy enemy to your immediate right, crossbow guy directly in front, rush the bridge to avoid getting burned, axe guy, sword guy and sword and shield guy in the building backed up by two guys with firebombs...

It continues...

 

[AlternatePFG]

Plus the placement of all the skeleton people between the Bonfire and the Tauros Demon has been etched into my very soul...

Crappy enemy to your immediate right, crossbow guy directly in front, rush the bridge to avoid getting burned, axe guy, sword guy and sword and shield guy in the building backed up by two guys with firebombs...

It was the same for me. It's been that way for me for every area past it as well...

 

[Condiments]

Everything is going very smoothly now for my thief character. Just obtained the laido from blightown and made a tactical retreat to regain souls, and beef up my character. I haven't found the game too difficult, but there have been some insanely pulse pounding moments. To those who haven't made to the depths yet(after capra demon), WATCH OUT FOR THE FROGS THAT SPEW GAS. If you remain too long in the gas you will be instantly killed, and your hp will be halved permanently(until you find curse remover). If this happens to you, focus on finding the curse remover rather than charging forth again. The frogs will continue to curse your character until your character becomes useless. I managed to avoid them, but dealing with them was some of the most intense gaming moments I've had in a long while.

Bosses besides the capra demon haven't been difficult at all. Bell tower gargoyles fell under my golden resin enchanted blade in mere seconds with the help of my sun knight npc companion.

 

[ultrachicken]

Demon's Souls was hard, Dark Souls is just cheap. Why do they throw so many random uber strong guys in the low level areas? Why do the lowliest of enemies still randomly half health me despite me having some strong armor? Why did they put the 2v1 boss fight so early in the game? Why did they make all the servers split so there are far less people to help and it is neigh impossible to tag with a friend? Why don't they give you any idea where ze hell to go and let me know when I am in an are not suitable for my level?

Demon's Souls is a much better game. The fact it was PS3 only is what I attribute to that fact. On PS3, all players were on the same server meaning more potential allies and messages. It was focused on single-player, with the multiplayer as a non-essential bonus.
Dark Souls is a multiplayer game that you almost have to do solo.

None of the "uber strong guys" are mandatory, unless you count bosses. The metal bull, the black knights, the dragon, etc. can and should all be skipped. Basically, if you're getting completely stomped by any enemy, find a different route. It's kind of like the red eye knight in 1-1 in Demon's Souls. I would say that Dark Souls is actually more fair than Demon's Souls, because there are fewer one-hit-kill booby traps that are activated by a contraption that looks exactly like the scenery.