Dark souls is utter crap as a game.

[anthony87]

Sorry OP but you sucking at/not liking a game does not make that game crap.

 

[StarStruckStrumpets]

Dark Souls is only hard when you first start out. The difficulty curve goes in reverse pretty much, it's all about learning. Save for the odd cheap death (Fuck the Bed of Chaos), the game is actually fun, and every death is down to your own impatience/stupidity. Every time I've died I've either been pissed off at myself for taking the risk, or laughed at myself for not paying attention. The story is told through the world as many others have said, the lore is actually stupidly deep. Even the creator has said in interviews that it was never intended to looked in to as much as it has been, but it's all there.

 

[viranimus]

I still dont get if this is about Demon or Dark or the franchise as a whole because it sounds like elements are merged

Heres my take.

Story: Yes, the story is light. It is not nonexistent. Much like TES or fallout a major part of the story is in the environment. However thats not all of it. Many elements of the story come from either the loading screens to act as foreshadowing, or item texts to describe the lore. Also, you cannot discount the intro scenes to the game because they basically set the stage to answer many of the questions asked like Why is everyone in this castle trying to kill me.

Mechanics: The Souls games are basically the single best examples of action RPGs we have at our disposal from a mechanical standpoint. The "skills" you get are more firmly rooted in reality with things like Safe fall, Dodge, block, parry, riposte, pattern recognition, timing, using the environment to your advantage, instead of hotkey 1= shockwave, Hotkey 2 = Immolation, Hotkey 3 = Wild 360 degree swing of death all of which allow you to forcibly overpower your opponent and nullify any degree of challenge or technique. The approach is more akin to mount and blades approach to realism than say, World of Warcrafts cartoonish anime approach where the only "challenge" comes from throwing more enemies at you and forcing you to micromanage health to simply outlast your opponent. In the souls games a single enemy can be just as threatening as a group if your not actually paying attention to what your doing.

RPG game: The game is heavily rooted in RPG development and statistical micromanagement. It represents about the best over all structure for RPG development. Where your skills are focused more in reality, so too is your char development. If your a warrior, you build Strength, Stamina, Endurance. If your a mage, you build Intelligence and Dexterity, If your a thief you build Dexterity and luck, If your a cleric you build faith and intelligence. If you build a hybrid you build what is appropriate for the 2-4 of the 4 base archtypes in what ever balance you find appropriate for your desired skillset. Each improvement in these base skills makes you better at your reality skills such as Pyromancy(dark only), Melee attacks, Ranged attacks, Magic, faith. It is perfection in its simplicity that allows people to truly design and build their char to fit exactly how they want to play, not a group of 3 pre configured specialiZations.

In short, its not for everyone, but it absolutely is worth every bit of hype and then some it generates because while not a perfect game (yes I would like more story too) its practically the idealization of what an RPG should be now instead of the "mash X hotkey to win" direction RPGs have been headed.

 

[crono738]

The same thing basically happened to me as well. I started out as a Knight, planning on going full melee, but that dream pretty much ended with my encounter with the Tower Knight. By the time I beat the game, I was insanely good with a bow and sword (SL 100+). Not so good with magic though... I mainly used soul-arrow, flame toss, and soul ray, all those mainly for the bosses. Never went melee against any of the buggers. XD

You can get some really powerful spells and miracles with Boss Souls. Some that killed the later bosses in one hit.

Ah fire storm...such a broken spell. Hell, starting as the Royalty class let you one-shot pretty much everything in the first world or two.

 

[daveman247]

snip

So you dont like the game, thats fine, put the game down and be happy
Its not a game for everyone. It seems you look for something different in an RPG than what is in this game (story). But thats not here. And thats fine, it still has leveling,choosing equipment, exploring and loot. So it is an RPG, this is how it was back in the day. A dungeon crawl, no rhyme or reason, just kill or be killed and find shit to get better.


And judging from what you have written for your tactics, i'm not surprised you didnt get very far, "your doing it wrong". Rolling helps, so does having a shield and working out how to counter attack.

 

[PatrickXD]

You basically defined what it means for a game to be challenging, then declared that that isn't what makes a game difficult. Please, in your own words, tell me: What makes a game hard?
This game requires that you develop techniques for fighting your opponents, learn how they attack and how you can exploit what weaknesses they have.
That's what people have been saying the game is all about for a while now. It's your own fault you didn't take heed.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I love playing demon souls because it makes me feel like a boss when I get past a section lol. It's a different type of gaming. One that is almost entirely made of challenge and gratification. It's not there to entertain you, it's there as a kind of gaming 'Oh you think your a big hero? WELL EAT MINOTAUR!'


I had to give up playing xbox for a while until I got my eyes tested and got glasses and I'm REALLY looking forward to getting back to playing it again.

I'll also be buying it on PC when it comes out.

 

[Flailing Escapist]

I've actually been looking to pick up Dark Souls for a while but then I read the title and I was like, "oh shit". But then I read the OT and now I'm definitely getting Dark Souls,

 

[M-E-D The Poet]

*snip*

Before I say anything I would first like to say if you want to have an honest discussion about dark souls then you should cut down on the hyperbole. It makes you look uninformed and like you dont intend to take any counter opinions seriously.

Now I love dark souls, I really do because its a game thats trying to do something different. Its not trying to be anything but itself and that, to me, is probably the best thing about the game. It has an identity and its saying that its ok to be different.

The first thing I often say about Dark souls is I dont think its a difficult game. I think its an unforgiving game. If you make mistakes you'll pay for it some way. Dont notice that ball at the end of the extremely dark stairway? Well then you're going to get run over by it and die. Dont check the cubbys? Well then youre going to miss an enemy hiding there who will walk up behind you, backstab you, and probably kill you in one hit (and if you arent dead your close to it meaning using an estus flask). The game is built around the idea that its tough but fair, if you take your time while moving through areas you should do fine. If you rush through an uncleared area you're probably going to die.

Now the various bosses do take some practice to learn and sometimes it can seem like a cheap shot but after you've learned their patterns you tend to think of a death as "ok how did I screw up?". With the bosses you want to use everything in your arsenal. For example my first character was a knight who was deep into two handed weapons like the claymore, zwienhander, and black knight greatsword but I found fighting the two poison dragons in the game exceptionally difficult. Until I pulled out my bow, then the fights were probably the easiest in the game. Weapons arent the only thing though, sometimes you want to change armors, for example when fighting the Abyss demon when I returned to the asylum I found him easier by equiping a lighter set of armor so his slow attacks were easier to dodge and I had less problems getting behind him for free hits. Basicly what Im saying is you can make the bosses difficult for yourself or you can make them easy all by changing tactics.

The third thing Ill touch on is the story. There is one, you dont learn it quickly and I think Dark souls could definiately benefit from a class on pacing but its still there. Although to be fair, I still had several unanswered questions by the end though they were minor ones in the grand scheme of things

I really have to question whether your trolling or not, just because of all the hyperbole and responses filled with more hyperbole but on the off chance that you arent trolling Im going to suggest that Maybe the game isnt for you? If you dont like the game then thats fine, I totally understand that its not for everyone and I would never suggest you play a game you dont like. However our opinions on the game are just as valid

the point that it might not be for me is duly noted.

However, I feel that even if I put up some decent stuff bar the hyperboles a lot of people are not even reading what I'm saying or answering in replies.
I'm only now replying to people who actually decently solidly respond like you.

See I did explore the combat and it was okay but I felt as soon as I found a boss that the combat just took a detour and it turned into a suicide trial (Even in suicide trials you're learning the patterns of your enemies, that's what it is, you die so many times till you find out what to do, you're all replying it to me but that's the basic essence of it).

As I said before, maybe I should pick up I WANNA BE THE GUY again because to me these 2 games fit in the same scheme of things.

the entire : You run in you die.

Comment I'm making is not about how I just run in without planning, it's how I found the game just turning into a bland version of I wanna be the guy. you run in you try shit you die, you run in again and try something else, this till you find a way past.
However! Dark souls bosses have way too many unforgiving parts about them and the combat may be "the best system out there" it's definitively not solid because I find myself being hit by enemies when I shouldn't be.

All in all the conclusion is, dark souls might not be for me, I may have more fun playing I wanna be the guy again.

 

[TrevHead]

TLDR the last 1.5 pages, but if you are still having difficulty with the bosses watch a replay of how to kill them, when fighting hard enemies its often best to lure them to the places that best suit you and try hit and run tactics, I found the bow to be very useful at the start of the game for aggroing single enemies.

Oh and alway make sure you have atleast one curse healing item in your inventory after you ring the 1st bell.

for the first boss in undead burg you can climb to the top of the tower throw bombs at him and jump off and attack it, very easy once you have studied the AI and attack patterns to find its weakness

if you see a boss with a tail try chopping it off, you will get a good item. Shoot the dragons tail with the bow to get the drake sword

 

[JoesshittyOs]

So... you don't think there's any "actual" difficulty to the game? Do you just simply don't understand what the word 'difficult' means? Because the game is very difficult. It's characterized by hardship and problems. It's not just difficult for a few certain times when it's okay for you, it's difficult the entire way through. Things kill you quickly, and sometimes it feels like there was absolutely nothing you could do to stop it (even though there is). That sounds like a difficult game to me.

Because that's what the word means. That argument has never and will never make sense.

Oh, and RPG? Same thing. You're playing a Role. That makes it an RPG. No argument will ever change that.

Now, I didn't really care for it. I found it nifty at first because the tension you get from having to play so carefully was pretty cool, but there was really nothing that kept me coming back. The world was really ridiculous, and about 5 hours in I just got really bored of having to play so carefully, and got into the habit of throwing all caution to the wind. Which you can't really do in that game.

Does that somehow make it a bad game? No. Just not my game.

 

[Arbi Trax]

It's ok, you don't have to like the game, and you don't have to justify why you don't like it to anyone, least of all to us.

I had a different experience to you, and I'm enjoying it, but then I'm the kind of guy who loves ASCII Roguelikes, and pen-and-paper PRGs.

I'm sure the next game you buy will be more to your liking.

 

[veloper]

Understandable criticism, but it's a matter of perspective: all the other action-RPGs are even worse, which makes DS great by comparison.

 

[Halleys5th]

OP deftly illustrates why I love this game: it rewards intelligence, and punishes stupidity. Just imagine watching him play....

 

[Lunar Templar]

it kicked my ass so I'm complaining about it

i know exactly what the real problem is.

you are not the intended audience, simple as that. the people this game is aim at don't care they are going to die 10 times in the span of 5 minutes, they expect it.

and comparing its story to any thing from Bethesda is stupid, they couldn't write a good story if they're lives depended on it. why do you think they hid behind the 'expansive worlds' they make

 

[Agente L]

You dislike the game =/= the game is bad.

Just a hint.

 

[muffkin]

I disagree strongly with almost every point the OP makes
"I feel it does not qualify as an RPG of any kind because bar the "design your character"
Part there is next to no story (Compare Dark Souls to Skyrim and you know what I mean, or better yet tell me immediately what the undead burg is what the lore behind it is how it got there why all its denizens are gone why I'm supposed to go there, who the knights are that lurk about the place, who the guys in the graveyard were etc etc etc. )"
I don't think a story is really the thing that makes a video game an RPG. a proper RPG by the literal definition wouldn't have a story to follow so the 'story' is actually the journey you make for your character. the first pokemon games had virtually no overarching plotline. just "here's some pokeballs and a pokemon, go do whatever" this fits into the more classical pen and paper rpgs where it's people sitting around a table making up stories and acting how they believe would be appropriate for their characters. I would say a sandbox game like the GTA series feels more like a literal RPG than any final fantasy game.

However, Dark Souls does have a story, and the answers to your questions should be obvious from just the intro sequence. Undead Burg is exactly what it says, a town filled with undead. Lordran is an area where the rest of the world sends all its undead because they feel they are cursed and unlucky, associated with the worsening world. it's like australia for zombies. clearly there used to be a real society in Lordran but it has fallen into decay and the hollows who do not eat and are endlessly resurrected by their dark sign fill it, their insanity keeping them from keeping anything in working order. I am not sure about the dark knights, but I believe their origin is revealed later. The guys in the graveyard are pretty clearly dead people that have been resurrected as skeletons, if you actually make it into the catacombs you see there are a number of necromancers, I would assume they are the cause of resurrected skeletons. the problem here is that dark souls doesn't hand out these plot points with lengthy explanations and cut scenes, you have to actually work for the story, inferring it from conversations with other NPCs and events related to them.

 

[scorptatious]

1. "RPG" is sort of a broad term now-a-days. Dark Souls isn't really the same kind of RPG as say, Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, ect. I sort of see it as an Action/Adventure RPG hybrid myself. Either way though, to me it is an RPG.

2. The way Dark Souls handles it's story is that it doesn't serve it to you on a silver platter. (Not that there's anything wrong with that method of telling a story). Instead, the game's lore is hidden behind conversations with characters, the various item descriptions, and most of all, personal interpretation. Some elements of the game are really left to the player's imagination. Which I personally find brilliant.

3. The way the game handles it's difficulty makes it so that you can't just rush in towards enemy filled environments, you need to take your time and assess the situation at hand. At some points in the game, you see an enemy straight ahead of you, seemingly all by himself. But if you look carefully around the area, you can see that his friend is waiting around a corner to ambush you from behind. So basically, you can't just run in sword a swinging in order to succeed. Sure, you may die a couple times, maybe even a dozen times. And yes it can be frustrating, sometimes maddeningly so, but to me, it feels kind of satisfying when you finally accomplish a difficult part or even get through a tough area on your first try.

4. The area of the game, Lordran, is kind of supposed to be barren and empty in terms of people to talk to. I guess it's really just personal opinion on whether or not you like this kind of setting in a game, but to me, I feel it adds to the atmosphere of the game.

So yeah, that's my reason to why Dark Souls is a great game.

Also, helpful tip: Upgrading your equipment is actually more important than leveling your character up. When leveling your character, you should mainly focus on leveling your vitality and endurance. You can pretty much get through about half the game with your starting equipment through upgrading them.

And you should really only focus on upgrading any of your other stats if there's a weapon you want to use that requires you to have a certain number of points in certain stats in order to be held properly. Beyond that, weapon damage scales depending on what kind of weapons you use and what stats they scale best with. (How good they scale with certain stats depends on the letter below the stat it can scale with. With S being the highest and E being the lowest.)

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Here's a link that also goes further into explaining what weapons scale with what. As I probably haven't explained how scaling work in the best possible way.

http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Weapons

 

[Exius Xavarus]

Snip.

I went in with the mindset that I'm a total badass and I'm about to skullfuck the shit outta Dark Souls.

...And I did just that. My only problem areas were making my way around Darkroot Gardens(just after you get past the Hydra) and Ornery&Snuggles. The difficulty in this game is greatly exaggerated. It is challenging and there are difficult areas to get through, but it's not nearly as skull-smashingly, controller-throwingly, RAAAAAAAAAGE-inducingly difficult as people are making it out to be.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's really just a game. It's not going to shower you with cutscenes from point A to point B, it's not going to say HAY THIS IS HERE FOR THAT REASON, it's not going to show you where to go, when. Dark Souls is very much an RPG in that you decide how you fight, where you go and what you do next. The story in this game is very organic. A large portion of it is decided by you, the player.

Not everyone's going to like this game. You, sir, are acting like your opinion that it's an awful game is an undisputed fact, with the way you're attempting to "tell off" others in your OP before they can even say anything. Your problem is that this game is not for you and sorry to say, but your opinion is just that. An opinion. You may not like it, but the general consensus is that Dark Souls is an amazing game. Whether you like it or not, they did something(and by that, I mean many) things right, to garner such praise.

So if you would, could you present your argument in the format of an opinion, rather than a dictation next time? It makes you look butthurt that this game doesn't conform to YOUR definition of an RPG, thus it cannot be one. And trying to tell off other participants before they even get to join the discussion because their opinions are different from yours, makes you look like an asshole.

 

[DYin01]

First of, I'd like to point out that the title of this thread is funny and seems like some sort of a failed disclaimer. Dark Souls can be judged as nothing else but a game, right?

Anyway, to the point. Everything I wanted to say has actually already been said by mister Scorptatious above me. To the OP: Obviously, this is not the kind of game for you. That's fine. Trying to ''objectively'' bring it down is just silly though.

The way you describe your experience with the game (particularly the way you approach combat) tells me that you're going about this the wrong way. The fact that you die all the time should tell you that. The game can be difficult indeed, because it's very different from games like Skyrim where you're basically an invincible God from the get go.

You have to take your time with this game, which is something a lot of people enjoy about it. If you don't, that's fine. Just don't try to pretend that you're being objective about this and that your so called criticisms are anything else but opinion. The things you hate are pretty much exactly what most people love about Dark Souls.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that ''But nobody can deny there isn't much of a story'' is actually completely false. There is very much a story and a lot of lore surrounding it. The only difference with most other games is that it does not present it to you directly. The opening cutscene explains the overal story and the NPC's give you direction. Apart from that, a large portion of the lore is in the item descriptions and the actual surroundings you're in. You discover by playing and paying attention, as you should in a videogame. It's not a movie, after all.

To prove my point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOrrllYCOTQ (I don't know how to embed ) Here is one of many lore video's, which cover everything that's in the Dark Souls universe.