Dark souls is utter crap as a game.

[DustyDrB]

It's slow-paced and tense. It's approaching combat in a way that no other franchise that I'm aware if is today. I don't know what all these people are talking about with "formulate a plan". It's not like you have to sort through a map of every area and have a strategy ready before going to those parts of the world. Just keep an open eye, don't rush through, and adapt to what comes to you. Play to your character's strengths and your enemies' weaknesses.

The real planning is for the boss fights, but even then it's mostly just "adapt or die". I generally try to sit back and observe the bosses for a while at the start. Notice their attack rate. If they get on top of you, take note of how effective blocking and dodging are. Try to see if they telegraph their attacks in any way. That sort of thing. And always pay attention to how you can use the environment to your advantage (or how it might be used against you).

There is story, too. Though I admit you have to go searching for it and put the pieces together yourself. And I'm not one of those people who think that's a good way to do it. But whatever. Just please don't tell me you're going to criticize Dark Souls' take on difficulty and then be totally fine with Skyrim's. Because ++difficulty shouldn't just mean ++enemy health.

 

[muffkin]

Bland? Gray and empty? Dark Souls has some of the most varied scenery in a current game. I just beat quelaag and the bottom of her chamber opens up into this vast hellish landscape with the roots of a great tree growing into it. The game has been nominated for 'best level design' awards and the enemy design is top-notch. Every enemy is instantly recognizable and frightening in unique ways. No one forgets the design of the gaping dragon.

 

[Litchhunter]

Allow me to address each of you your points one by one.
"I feel it does not qualify as an RPG of any kind because bar the "design your character" part"

That's a shame, because RPG kinda means "Role playing game". I don't know about you, but I was able to role play lots in DS. Picking which stats to place, what armor to equip, what weapon to use, what style combat I would fight with. And even if it WASN'T and RPG, is that really that big of a problem? Do games have to fall into nice clean cut category's in order to be fun?

"there is next to no story (Compare Dark Souls to Skyrim and you know what I mean, or better yet tell me immediately what the undead burg is what the lore behind it is how it got there why all its denizens are gone why I'm supposed to go there, who the knights are that lurk about the place, who the guys in the graveyard were etc etc etc. )"

Now this I just take offense to. The game is STOOPED in lore, it just presents it in a realistic manor. You're not going to learn the game's world and story in five minutes, you're going to learn it gradually over time by paying attention. When you meet someone new, is the first thing they do spew out their life story? As for being in the dark about your mission, that's what they're going for. You're being manipulated by higher powers the entire time. You aren't SUPPOSED to know.

"I feel there is no ACTUAL difficulty to the game , it's a suicide trial or a lesson on how to tuck and roll either way there is nothing in the game that's actually difficult, there's just the impossibility of doing something and doing it so many times it suddenly becomes possible."

...You do know that if you play well enough, you can one-shot entire areas, let alone bosses. That's the hard part, being able to play well.

"I feel it's a bit bland it's mostly gray and empty with little to show for it.
Partly belonging with story but I find having conversations that go anywhere is a bit difficult for this game."

You're missing the point of the game entirely. It's about the combat, the atmosphere, the exploration, and the ability to react to whatever might be thrown at you in a moments notice.
I really do feel bad for you that the finer points of the game are lost on you.

 

[Fr]anc[is]

Nevermind, I don't want to get called an idiot by smug people, plus necro thread

 

[Legendairy314]

The problem I have with it is that it's so needlessly complex and replaces fear with repetition. The game never really reveals what to do and you can easily make a mistake that will cripple you (like killing a dragon w/o cutting off it's tail first will rob you of an amazing weapon). It's put there to help enforce the sense of exploration and community but it's more so frustrating that when you want to just go off on your own that you end up worse off.

For example, I decided to try and get through the gaping dragon area solo and ran into those frog things. I saw that they had steam attacks but had no idea what they did. Out of curiosity I let myself get hit thinking that at worst it would kill me. I got cursed.

See, I don't like it when a game punishes you with monotony. I didn't just die, I died and was then forced to grind for souls to buy an item that I now required to continue on. And when you lose against a boss what's your punishment? You don't lose and get to start over; you lose and have to spend 10 minutes fighting the same enemies you've already proven you can kill with no fuss, trek through 5 minutes of the same hallway you've previously opened, and THEN you can fight the boss again.

TLDR: Dark Souls is a great game but it punishes you by wasting your time. In a normal game you don't want to die because you actually care about what's happening and would prefer to stay alive because you're so actively engaged that winning in of itself is enough. In Dark Souls I don't want to die because I know that I'll have to grind/repeat the same area over and over again.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I know you first posters are going to be the "IT'S DIFFICULT SO IT HAS TO BE GOOD" crowd.
Let me tell you off immediately like so : I don't have to think about doing anything in demon souls I just have to run into the grubs with my axe head first enough times till I get pas them.
Which means it's not challenging or difficult or complex more relatively easy though difficult to execute at times(the entire time sorry).

Well, there's your problem. This kind of game doesn't reward rushing into battle and hoping everything works out all right. You've got to know your enemies and go in with a plan.

I went in with a plan, I went in with many plans, if my enemy is a guy who's faster than me and kills me with 1 strike I find it a bit upsetting if I've been chucking bombs at him for ages

Actually, you can go through an area without dying the first time through it.
You just have to:
1. Never fight more than one enemy at a time. Draw them with arrows or hit walls to make noise.
2. Never rush around corners. Edge up to a corner and use your camera.
3. Have safe spots. Document good open fighting areas you can run back to if you stumble into a trap or pull a group.
4. Be light. Defense is a nothing stat. The only two things that matter about armor are Poise and Equip Burden. If you aren't quick rolling, change your equipment around until you are. Being able to outmaneuver enemies is crucial.
5. Always maintain patience and vigilance.

 

[BlueberryMUNCH]

I only read the introduction to your psot, and you're just extremely ignorant.
The game doesn't spoonfeed you. It's down to you to work these things out.

All you have to do is read and pay attention to some things, which you clearly haven't bothered to do, and therefore, your judgement is invalid.

Allow me to address each of you your points one by one.
"I feel it does not qualify as an RPG of any kind because bar the "design your character" part"

That's a shame, because RPG kinda means "Role playing game". I don't know about you, but I was able to role play lots in DS. Picking which stats to place, what armor to equip, what weapon to use, what style combat I would fight with. And even if it WASN'T and RPG, is that really that big of a problem? Do games have to fall into nice clean cut category's in order to be fun?

"there is next to no story (Compare Dark Souls to Skyrim and you know what I mean, or better yet tell me immediately what the undead burg is what the lore behind it is how it got there why all its denizens are gone why I'm supposed to go there, who the knights are that lurk about the place, who the guys in the graveyard were etc etc etc. )"

Now this I just take offense to. The game is STOOPED in lore, it just presents it in a realistic manor. You're not going to learn the game's world and story in five minutes, you're going to learn it gradually over time by paying attention. When you meet someone new, is the first thing they do spew out their life story? As for being in the dark about your mission, that's what they're going for. You're being manipulated by higher powers the entire time. You aren't SUPPOSED to know.

"I feel there is no ACTUAL difficulty to the game , it's a suicide trial or a lesson on how to tuck and roll either way there is nothing in the game that's actually difficult, there's just the impossibility of doing something and doing it so many times it suddenly becomes possible."

...You do know that if you play well enough, you can one-shot entire areas, let alone bosses. That's the hard part, being able to play well.

"I feel it's a bit bland it's mostly gray and empty with little to show for it.
Partly belonging with story but I find having conversations that go anywhere is a bit difficult for this game."

You're missing the point of the game entirely. It's about the combat, the atmosphere, the exploration, and the ability to react to whatever might be thrown at you in a moments notice.
I really do feel bad for you that the finer points of the game are lost on you.

Well said, mate.

 

[Slash Dementia]

I've been on my first playthrough of this game for almost a year. I quit when I rang both towers--I quit for about five months. Then I started playing again, and I worked my way through the area that I was stuck at. I felt good, and I continued to play until I beat Ornstein and Smough. But again, I stopped playing--but not because it was too difficult, but because I wanted to play another game.

I feel that, with Dark Souls, it's not as tough as it's put out to be. Sometimes, all it takes is confidence and quick thinking. For me Dark Souls is a confidence over fear game. When I'm afraid of dying and losing souls, I die more often; when I'm confident and don't care if I die, when I just know that I'll be able to get through, I get through. I feel that's a good reward in itself. As for the combat, it's got a hard learning curve, but it's actually fine once you get used to it--used to it meaning practicing. There is no charging in (unless you know what you're doing), there is no easy way out if you're afraid.

As for the story, I haven't noticed much of one, but having little story--to me--adds to the emptiness and hopelessness that the game makes you feel. At first, I was constantly looking for anything that would help me or give me details about what I was doing, but I didn't get anything clear. It stopped mattering when I realized there wouldn't be much, that what I see and what I do is all the story there will be--my story, which is the ROLE I'm playing. The story of a corpse that goes through trial and error scenarios. A story where you can say "oh, I did X in Y with Z, and I did it like this..." You also get to see deaths of other players and their messages. To me, that's not a bad thing.

Anyway, I get where you're coming from, and I get your disappointments, but it's not a game for everyone. Maybe it's not even one for me, but I'm playing it for some reason. We can all attach different meanings to the game and interpret it however we feel; just like we can all play it and play however we want.

 

[TaintedSaint]

Sorry game does not suck because you are bad at it. Get better use all your tools at your disposal. you have to be the problem I know plenty of people who have finished it.

 

[Ickorus]

I don't have enough time at the moment to go through your entire argument but I'll point you in the right direction on the story/lore side of things:


The story isn't handed to you on a silver platter, one of the reasons I like the game so much is because you have to look for the lore and your character is a very blank slate so you can make up the reasons why they're there and what they did before their undeath.

 

[Ryotknife]

blocking + counter-attack gets real old real quick, especially when combat is the main focus of the game.

Combat was more boring than playing as a destro warlock in Burning Crusade in WoW (shadowbolt x infinity)

 

[aguspal]

Its funny, I didnt knew if I should install Dark souls right now, I was in doubt. You OP have give me a lot of reasons to play this game. A game that dosnt have a story and it focus on hard difficulty, exp leveling up and classic action rpg stuff? Yes, I am so installing it now!


Thank you OP!

 

[Dakota Ray]

Yeah, the game's story is supposed to be pieced together. (The majority of the story you actually have to take in from the description of the EQUIPMENT[suprisingly] and taking in the environment [like statues, monuments,etc.] and the final pieces with the small dialogue between characters here and there[Make sure to talk to all characters that you run into multiple times during the duration of your play as their dialogue changes quite often after doing an event or area.]) The combat is supposed to be a combination of dodging/blocking and then counterattacking effectively without getting yourself killed. The game is supposed to be hard with the occasional 1 to 2 shot bosses that you have to be SO careful when playing. I love the game to pieces but even I have to put it down a lot of times because it's so frustrating sometimes that I need a while to calm down. In my opinion, that's fun for me in a game. It challenges your strategy whether not you think it's just a roll+counterattack bot(Choosing different paths, changing a combination of armor and stats to increase either damage, defense, or endurance to go through certain areas of the game[e.g. Grabbing Poison resistant equipment/items to go through the dreaded Blightown] You'll never want to keep the same weapons and armor sets as you'll adapt to your environment. It has more strategy than first meets the eye.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Well, thats just, like, your opinion, man.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

There are some things I agree with. I don't feel any sense of accomplishment and reward. EVER. I kill 2 freakin' gargoyles that were standing on top of a church and I get no satisfaction from it. Because there's no story. There's no reason to keep me going forward. All I know is, I'm going somewhere to fight something and die a million times in the process. And it's all for nothing. I like the challenge, the difficulty. But there has to be a light at the end of the tunnel. Something you're working towards. Otherwise it's meaningless. I just don't feel any urge to play it like I play Skyrim or The Witcher and other RPGs that are either driven by story or exploration. In Skyrim there's always a clear goal, or a goal I set for myself. And the world feels alive and real. In The Witcher, there are these interesting characters and an interesting story, and I keep playing to see what happens next. And on highest difficulty The Witcher games are more brutal than Dark Souls.

 

[Kopikatsu]

I never understood the complaints about Dark Souls' difficulty. It really isn't that difficult. For enemies that aren't gigantic, hit square when the enemy telegraphs their next attack (dunno what button on the 360 that is) and then whatever the attack button was. Congrats! You just insta-killed them with a parry. After about twenty minutes of practice, I had the timing down well enough that I could parry before they even attacked. I'm not entirely sure how that worked, but it did.

For bigger enemies, just run around in circles while poking them every time they wiff an attack.

For traps...pay close attention and never trust other player's messages. They're always lies. 'Awesome Spear Ahead'. "SWEET!" -tries to open chest and immediately gets head bitten off by the Mimic-

DAMN YOU, SEN'S FORTRESS.

Anyway, yeah. The only hard part is fighting Fatboy and Slim on a high NG+ level, because they will wreck your shit.

 

[Dakota Ray]

So ENB(Someone famous in the Souls community) made a video today that explains what most people think about the game and replies to the OP. You can watch the whole video if you'd like but the time specified below reminded me of this thread immediately.

6:30-8:10 (in the video below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b91BWzLigs&feature=g-all-f

There are some things I agree with. I don't feel any sense of accomplishment and reward. EVER. I kill 2 freakin' gargoyles that were standing on top of a church and I get no satisfaction from it. Because there's no story. There's no reason to keep me going forward. All I know is, I'm going somewhere to fight something and die a million times in the process. And it's all for nothing. I like the challenge, the difficulty. But there has to be a light at the end of the tunnel. Something you're working towards. Otherwise it's meaningless. I just don't feel any urge to play it like I play Skyrim or The Witcher and other RPGs that are either driven by story or exploration. In Skyrim there's always a clear goal, or a goal I set for myself. And the world feels alive and real. In The Witcher, there are these interesting characters and an interesting story, and I keep playing to see what happens next. And on highest difficulty The Witcher games are more brutal than Dark Souls.

See, I'm not usually the type to feel that sort of accomplishment in a video game, but Dark Souls changed that. The feeling I had after beating the Asylum Demon (once you come back to the Asylum starting area) which took me 2 HOURS to complete (considering he kills you in 2-3 shots) made me overjoyed at the fact that I finally killed that bastard. The demographic of gamers that didn't like this game (like the OP) would've hated that boss because one mistake(roll the wrong way/staying for 1 more hit on the boss) can seal your fate. Some people find that cheap, though I still thoroughly enjoyed the game even though I occasionally felt cheap'd out by a few deaths(like being cursed from those asshole insect/amphibian looking things that spewed out gas that permanently removed half of your health[until you get a Purging Stone] after killing you in two seconds.)

 

[sonofliber]

Really, another one of these threads? I could have sworn we'd moved on with our lives. Honestly, it bothers me that I love this game so and have to enjoy it despite the community which surrounds it. Men (and teenagers) with such a staggeringly insecure handle on their masculinity that the must play HARD games as if it would justify their very existence.

I enjoyed Dark Souls not for the challenge (though it is terribly challenging) but for the deft, oppressive sense of atmosphere and the unconventional manner in which the narrative unfolds. You have to piece together the larger story through titbits. It's somewhat similar to the manner in which Metroid Prime handled exposition, similar in delivery that is. You're exploring a dead society, it would only make sense that you get your information from hearsay and what little is left to the wind.

I enjoyed the game because it did feel like I was inhabiting a living world, because there was a sense of mystery that so many games lack these days.

ha i wasnt the only one that thought like that then, i basically went: "well this is a nice crafter and nicely rendered world with lots of backgroud, yet i find the combat and the whole die to learn thing extremely boring (was doing great until the demon with the 2 dogs, die around 15 times tried a lot of differnts things got bored), so f it trainer time" and im really enjoing the game

 

[Erttheking]

http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/your_opinion.jpg?w=720

I'll admit that Dark Souls isn't for everyone, for some the difficulty is just a massive turn off, but I disagree with your opinion.

P.S. You fought three enemies that one shot you...are you in the graveyard at the start? If so, you went the wrong way.

 

[Jimmy T. Malice]

The story isn't just thrown at you by everyone you talk to like in the Elder Scrolls. Dark Souls is like Half-Life in that most of the plot and backstory is in the environment. The item descriptions also shed light into the past and origins of characters.

You can work out most of the story by paying attention and working it out. For instance, Ornstein and Smough jump down from the balcony where Gwynevere is, so you can extrapolate that they're actually her protectors defending her from the Undead (i.e. you).