Setch Dreskar said:
Well you have convinced me of one thing, you are hard set in your position, and using pseudo psychology to try and justify it. Even going into 'oppression' and 'douchey' as supposed answers to your argument, which you don't have as I never said I disliked people taking the action, I just like when game designers tell its playerbase "You can do this, don't take the easy route out, its not impossible." You can twist things all you like I suppose, as it seems you won't have a legitimate debate in this topic. Also I am quoting from the game itself, this was a design mechanic in 'Splosion Man giving you the option to skip the level if you keep dying on it and giving you a warning that if you skip your character gets a pink tutu and a laugh track plays.
At this point it would just be wasting more time since you don't want to actually have a debate and prefer to brow beat people into your line of thinking using your supposed psychological knowledge to do so. So I guess you can stroke your own ego to someone else.
Firstly, it's not pseudo psychology, it's actual psychology. Also, sociology and anthropology. Do your research on male bonding and the perpetuation of abuse before dismissing things out of hand. Secondly, telling the player base "don't take the easy route" is policing how people have fun. Not everyone has the same values that you do. I understand that you value overcoming the arbitrary standards set by somebody else. I don't mind that. If that's how you want to have fun, go ahead, I'm not going to tell you that it's wrong or that it's not a valid way to have fun. You, on the other hand, are not doing the same. Thirdly, I will ignore the bit about 'Splosion Man because I don't want this to turn into a rabid flamewar, but just for the record? What that game does is not socially progressive. And I will leave it at that.
I'm not trying to browbeat you to think in any way, I know for a fact that you are not going to change your mind. I'm just getting a dissenting voice in this place because holy crap, people are still going at it.
SecretNegative said:
Thank you, that really needed to be said. I'm quite baffled by people who get's angry at things that in no way affects them.
It's quite absurd to whine over optional difficulty that you'll never even use.
The problem is that most players are going to keep clinging to the idea (and I'm pretty sure that if an easy mode gets implemented, there will be a massive backlash against those who use it) because the ego component is too important.
chaos order said:
see the thing is you haven't played the game and soo you havent even tried to look at it from the persepective you are arguing against or knowing what choices (also known as options) that are available to players. In addition there is an easy mode of sorts. Not one that is explicitly in a menu screen but choices you can make as you play the game. for one dont go human and stay as a hallow. really as far as i have seen in the game being human just gives you the opportunity to invade other people or be invaded, thus making the game easier so that one does not have to deal with random invasions. in addition join convenants (sorta like guilds) that affect in game and online play. for example the very first coveneant that you join puts your character on the bottom of the list of people that can be invaded,thus lowering the risk of invasion thus making it somewhat easier. there is also a way to help people out by placing marks in the ground that allow other players to summon them in areas that they are having trouble with, thus giving players the option to invite another player to fight with them thus making the game easier; in addition you can summon NPCs.
Also the game tries to teach (atleast attempts) through gameplay, which is something rare nowadays and i like that. the first enemies you fight telegraph their attacks and are really really slow, and in the tutorial there are enemies that jump from corners which teaches you that that will happen alot. the game doesnt provide text telling you what to do, it tries to teach you what to do.
Finally i personally cant see how the game thats sorta supposed to be played online can have an easy mode if everyone can invade anyone.
Firstly, just because I haven't played doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion because the very reason I refuse to touch that game is due to its masochistic difficulty. Secondly,
adding an option to make the game easier is not going to remove anything you enjoy about the game. All the things you like? Are still going to be there, untouched. If people want to have that kind of experiences, they will. If they don't, then they get to play the game all the same while enjoying a different kind of experience.
Burst6 said:
But you can't just ignore it though. The game feels different when you have to basically make your own difficulty. It's the feeling of doing something great inside a video game world vs accomplishing a self imposed challenge. Games aren't just a business, they're an art too. They don't have to reach the widest base and having some integrity is good. Making a game revolve around a single theme and then adding a massive break from that theme in the middle isn't good. Yes no one should try to impose their idea of fun onto you, and no one is. No one is forcing you to buy this game and not all games have to appeal to you.
Yes, the game feels different. And? The game also feels different when I use it to spread butter on toast, or as a paperweight. What people do with their videogames is none of your concern.
I completely agree, games are art, and you are never going to hear any person well versed in the arts telling someone that they are enjoying art wrong. If they do, they are pretentious douchebags who need to get back to their art classes and books and read the multitude of dissenting opinions on works of art before opening their ignorant mouths. Also, you seem to assume that the theoretical incorporation of easy mode will overwrite the present difficulty or somehow rob you of the experience you cherish. It won't. Because it's an
option, it's not mandatory, and you can still have standard mode to play. Finally, nobody's saying this is being done for business reasons. I have no stake in the company, and I am not arguing on monetary grounds. I am arguing on a broader intellectual level. Adding more options to games, particularly options that broaden accessibility, is always an invariably good thing. The last thing we need in the gamer community is to continuing perpetuating the kind of haughty elitism and hostile isolationism that cause gamers to lash out at anyone who has a differing opinion or isn't like them. Opening our doors to differing viewpoints and welcoming people who are not like us will do wonders to foster tolerance (which is something the gamer community sorely needs).
deathbydeath said:
Dude, peace pipes. Smoke the hell out of them. You're bitching about policing fun when you didn't need to even ***** in the first place, and yet you're policing the damn thread.
How am I policing the thread? By offering a dissenting opinion? By replying only to the people who are addressing me directly? And if we're talking about "need", then none of us
need to post here. We do it because we want to offer our opinions.