Dark Souls Softcore mode?

[Windcaler]

I was just thinking about this today when a Black Phantom came into my game while farming in Arno Londo and I backed up my save file again for 13th billion time. People were previously talking about how it would be hard to implement an easy mode, but why not implement something akin to Terraria's Softcore, mediumcore, hardcore modes?

I have to say that Dark Souls seems a lot more enjoyable when I don't have to worry about losing all my stuff from getting invaded while farming, and it's not like the guy who invaded is losing out on anything anyway (though if they do implement a softcore mode they probably should take into account the guys playing softcore aren't going to be good challenges for pvp oriented folks and therefore give less of a reward for defeating them.)

On a side note: what is with all the elemental weapon users? The attacks do so little damage and they don't seem to know how to back stab or even parry...

If you dont want to be invaded then its best to use the mechanics in the game (or out of the game) to prevent invasions. Dark souls does a poor job of letting you know what those tools are (and I would be fine with a better tutorial explaining that), which is one of the reasons why theres such a large community around the game. For the sharing of knowledge and secrets. In this case you can do a couple things the first is you can stay in hallow form while still online. The second is you can go offline. However its not that being human increases drop rate, its having humanity in stock (whats often called soft humanity). So you dont need to be human for increased drop rates, you just need to have soft humanity in stock. The third thing you can do, which is not garanteed to work, is join the way of white covenant at Firelink shrine. Just talk to Petrus. The way of white makes it so you are basicly the last on the list to be invaded

That said, could you explain to me why you would ask a developer to take development time away from a game to create an optional mode to do what you want when there are already tools in the game to do what you want?

As for a harder core mode, I think that is uneeded. The game already has a strong community around it that makes the experience more engaging by creating challenges. A mode making a harder core experience would IMO jeapordize the competitive and more engaging aspects around player created challenges. It also fails to address the fact that the game already has more unforgiving modes as you get progressively higher with new game+ modes. However I wouldnt call that harder since adding damage/health to enemies or lessening ours doesnt increase difficulty it just increases the time taken to beat an encounter. The only way difficulty vs enemies could be added was to give them new AI, tactics, and/or abilities but that takes away development time for the default game

As for elemental weapons, they are generally made because just about everyone packs a shield that has 100% block to physical damage (I dont but I know how to parry and my target shield even makes it easier). A fire, lightning, or magic weapon will get a little bit through on any shield so they can progressively wear people down if they just hide behind their shield. The best way Ive found to counter these attack spammers is to parry/riposte them. Most of them wont know what to do when you take away their primary means of attack

 

[ksn0va]

Then don't farm while human.

Yes, being human increases the drop rate, but that's the price you pay.

Want to get stuff quicker, risk getting invaded.

You only need to hold humanity to increase your drop rate, no need to be human. Also get the Drake Sword = instant easy mode.

 

[Windcaler]

Then don't farm while human.

Yes, being human increases the drop rate, but that's the price you pay.

Want to get stuff quicker, risk getting invaded.

You only need to hold humanity to increase your drop rate, no need to be human. Also get the Drake Sword = instant easy mode.

At first thats true but after Blightown the lack of scaling the drake sword has makes it a hinderance in later areas like Sens fortress and anor londo.

 

[Jimmy T. Malice]

I agree about the NPC summons being hard to get when first playing. When I started Dark Souls I didn't even realise you could summon people, and because I didn't go through Solaire's full dialogue (he didn't seem to be very helpful) I didn't know that he would have a summon sign or get a White Sign Soapstone until much later. I wouldn't have known that Solaire's sign was before the Bell Gargoyles if I hadn't consulted the wiki, and I didn't know that I had to be human to summon him.

 

[Ninjat_126]

That's pretty much what the game is about. Actions have consequences.

I think this sums it up better than anything else I've heard, and that's how I've thought of it.

You don't need exceptional reflexes, you don't need a map, you don't need to master the ins and outs of the combat system to be good at Dark Souls. You just need to understand that everything you do has weight, that there are no second chances, and you cannot just quickload when shit hits fan. To make Dark Souls "easier," you'd have to remove that feature; the one that made me fall in love with the game in the first place.

I just think DSII needs a better tutorial, and perhaps some more solid explanation of how the systems work to cut down on sheer trial and error, and perhaps some more balancing for elemental weapons and the like.

 

[Colt47]

Oh I'm not complaining about the fact they aren't marked.

Don't know why you would bring it up then...

I'm just rebuking the idea that their is a solution that fulfills the criteria of the opening argument in your actual statements. But then again, you don't seem interested in that anyway.

I never claimed to be arguing against your "softcore" solution, given that until I read the terrarria wiki just now, I had no idea what it meant.

Your grievances with invading players and accessibility for the summon mechanic, however, are absurd.

I'm not really interested in your opinion of my opinion of the Dark Souls invading player / accessibility for summon mechanic. That's a criticism that lacks any kind of constructive merit and we could probably be stuck in perpetual argument forever on. The fact is that even if something is intentionally designed a certain way, it can still have flaws to it. It's definitely a weakness that the player can't tell where the summon signs are for NPC aid if he is stuck in undead form.

Also, this is what is written on the description of the stone:

[em]"Online play item. Leave summon sign.
Be summoned to another world as a phantom through your sign, and defeat the area boss to acquire humanity.
In Lordran, the flow of time is distorted, and the White Sign Soapstone allows Undead to assist one another."[/em]

How does this help locate black phantom npcs and npc summon signs outside of "be human"?

most summon signs are right before the fog door to the boss. The door is marked by a fog you must interact with to enter, thereby making the player stop a second before barreling in, with the signs right next to the door in most cases, especially earlier bosses. Hell, some have 2 summons you can use. So long as you are human, you will see them, provided you meet any other requirement for the summon (that being, so long as you interacted with the people you are trying to summon. Like talking to soltaire first). Sorry you feel that a game designed to force players to look and find secrets and tricks isn't holding your hand enough to light up a sign 5 feet from a marked boss door any more then it already does. One would assume the neon glowing mark on the floor would be enough to anyone who played the game long enough to get to a boss with a summon sign in the first place.

Better solution: have the sign show up whether you are undead or not, and just not be able to use it assuming the criteria necessary for the summon is met to make it show up while alive in the first place. Problem solved and it doesn't even effect the game all that much. /shrug.

Except... it sort of DOES affect the game. It removes the risk/reward balance that is the entire core of the game. Humanity has risk, but to offset that, you can be rewarded by calling aid. This ties back into the pvp system where people with humanity get invaded by those seeking to take it, but they can also call in help. Plus it is a reward earned by people who can make it to the boss fight but might have drained most their flasks in doing so.

You solution offers something for nothing, help for the sake of getting help in a game based around risk/reward trade offs. It may be more helpful to those who struggle, but it defeats the purpose of weighing a risk now for a possible reward if you can pull it off. Why would I go human if I knew I didn't need to to get help?

Because you still can't use it unless you are alive? I never said that that the person can use the summon signs if they are undead, you just assumed that for some reason.

Umm...the hell is the point then? If it is just to find the summon sign, then sorry, I still say I like it better when you can only see it if you can interact with it. That pushes people to risk being human more often and help drive invasions and the like. Hell, if you saw a marker at every place there was a sign, people would just homeward bone back to the fire, human and go on, letting themselves die after and not being human again til the next one.

I'm sorry, but this seems such a stupid, petty thing to worry about to be honest. Especially since most summon signs are near the fog door anyways, and black phantoms are suppose to resemble real people invading "randomly" I can't help but think you'd be the sort to complain that shields in the old sonic games should be out in the open too instead of hidden away as rewards for the curious and the thorough. Or that alternate endings should be clearly explained as options beforehand.
Summon signs are a reward for risk, the mere fact of seeing them part of the reward. Much like having to be in the right place with the right item to see something special, it is an event that is not required but is a nice touch to those who are thorough and who braved the dangers.

The example you gave isn't a sound counter example. In Super Mario the blocks that give an item are marked most of the time unless it's a secret of some sort. In the case of Dark Souls the summon sign mechanic for at least some of the NPCs being secret is debatable.

most are marked by being glowing marks 10 feet from the boss fog door. Except for a few that are more secret, as apparent by the unconventional way you get to them or the character paths you have to take with npc.

Well, yeah. The whole point is that the idea is so simple it isn't worth arguing about when it came to the symbols. They don't effect the game play much and you even had to really push it to even find a reason to argue against it. Also, don't you think that the point you made kind of flies in the face with letting the person pick when he is human so that he can choose when to be open to invasion? I can understand someone being afraid of the game they love being changed in negative ways, but when a simple fix like that increases player choice suddenly players having a choice is an issue? o o;

I'm starting to see why some people have come to some interesting conclusions about game fans. Not pointing fingers at you in particular, but, yeah after rereading the rebukes from multiple people on subjects I didn't even intend to argue about this is turning into a "leave my poor game alone" knee jerk thread.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Better solution: have the sign show up whether you are undead or not, and just not be able to use it assuming the criteria necessary for the summon is met to make it show up while alive in the first place. Problem solved and it doesn't even effect the game all that much. /shrug.

No. Being human is different, and it comes with its own set of perks... opening up exactly the one thing you mentioned makes it unnecessary to reverse hollowing and you could explore everything while hollow for preparation. Actually only seeing the signs when human makes perfect sense, as you need to be human to interact with them. Be undead all you like, explore. Get back to bonfire, restock, reverse hollowing, zip your way through whichever way you please, summon help, be invaded, take on invader or rush to boss. In the world of Dark Souls, it just doesn't make sense to let hollows see the signs.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

That's pretty much what the game is about. Actions have consequences.

I think this sums it up better than anything else I've heard, and that's how I've thought of it.

You don't need exceptional reflexes, you don't need a map, you don't need to master the ins and outs of the combat system to be good at Dark Souls. You just need to understand that everything you do has weight, that there are no second chances, and you cannot just quickload when shit hits fan. To make Dark Souls "easier," you'd have to remove that feature; the one that made me fall in love with the game in the first place.

I just think DSII needs a better tutorial, and perhaps some more solid explanation of how the systems work to cut down on sheer trial and error, and perhaps some more balancing for elemental weapons and the like.

I'm with you, but you seem to be oblivious to the fact that (PC) players have already taken to playing a meta game of a) getting frustrated and b) managing Dark Souls save files manually every time they get invaded or die. Instead of dealing with the actual mechanics and even trying to understand them and play by the rules, they claim to have understood everything enough to be in a position to claim that the mechanics and the math behind the scenes are humbug and need to be changed to accommodate their expectations of the game.

 

[Colt47]

Better solution: have the sign show up whether you are undead or not, and just not be able to use it assuming the criteria necessary for the summon is met to make it show up while alive in the first place. Problem solved and it doesn't even effect the game all that much. /shrug.

No. Being human is different, and it comes with its own set of perks... opening up exactly the one thing you mentioned makes it unnecessary to reverse hollowing and you could explore everything while hollow for preparation. Actually only seeing the signs when human makes perfect sense, as you need to be human to interact with them. Be undead all you like, explore. Get back to bonfire, restock, reverse hollowing, zip your way through whichever way you please, summon help, be invaded, take on invader or rush to boss. In the world of Dark Souls, it just doesn't make sense to let hollows see the signs.

That's actually a pretty well worded counter argument and probably what other people were trying to say earlier. Again, I think the whole frustration is a difference in how people want to play the game. One attribute that makes a game niche is how many different ways it allows players to play the game, and it's one of the reasons these threads turn into opinionated and continuously more aggressive commentaries. The fact is some people are afraid that any kind of change at all could impact their way of playing the game and they become exceptionally defensive. This is especially true in games like Dark Souls, where the developer only had time to implement one way to play the game (hence why there are no difficulty selectors). The truth is that if there was an option in the options menu that allowed someone to flip on view-able summon signs while undead, how would that effect people who believe it is not necessary? The people who believe it isn't necessary or detracts from the experience would leave the option flipped off, while people who do like it would have it flipped on.

So in light of something like that, it makes people who argue against the adding of options come off as if they want to enforce their way of playing the game onto others, simply to justify that their way of playing the game is the only correct way to play it (that's pretty much as subjective as something can get). All of us understand that we don't want all games to become watered down, sequel driven generic tripe like much of the AAA industry. That doesn't mean we need to be 100% defensive against any kind of addition what-so-ever.

The bigger problem is trying to find ways to prevent option abuse from breaking the existing game.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

The truth is that if there was an option in the options menu that allowed someone to flip on view-able summon signs while undead, how would that effect people who believe it is not necessary? The people who believe it isn't necessary or detracts from the experience would leave the option flipped off, while people who do like it would have it flipped on.

So in light of something like that, it makes people who argue against the adding of options come off as if they want to enforce their way of playing the game onto others, simply to justify that their way of playing the game is the only correct way to play it (that's pretty much as subjective as something can get). All of us understand that we don't want all games to become watered down, sequel driven generic tripe like much of the AAA industry. That doesn't mean we need to be 100% defensive against any kind of addition what-so-ever.

The bigger problem is trying to find ways to prevent option abuse from breaking the existing game.

See,

human nature dictates that the more loopholes and options you hand us, the more we'll exploit and break things. We'll even poop in the oven, given the opportunity. There are some - very specific - things that are subpar, faulty or broken in the current iteration of Dark Souls post patch, and yet the standing army of teleporting, backstab-fishing, heavily armoured, effect abusing flip ring folks is still around. They manifest shameful mistakes that were made, but there was no fair way of rolling back things. Assholes manifest themselves in many forms, shapes and colours, but there will always be assholes.

Dark Souls is not a game about assholes. At least not that kind of'em. You'll hug demon butt cheek throughout the game, but the human assholes will be everywhere. They are oftentimes seen doing repetive stuff, as if they were in a loop of sorts.

Imagine, if you will, the scenario of Dark Souls 2 coming out now, half an hour ago, even.

You and I started playing at the same time.

You and I are networking and getting organized with as many folks as possible.

You and I are online.

I am taking the risk of going human at the first opportunity, so I can see the content that is hidden from you hollow folks.

...while you remain hollow and scout out the place without taking any risk whatsoever.

That already gives you a hefty tactical advantage.

Is this of interest to the single player mode only lover? Not directly, as long as he or she stays hollow and offline.

 

[ksn0va]

Then don't farm while human.

Yes, being human increases the drop rate, but that's the price you pay.

Want to get stuff quicker, risk getting invaded.

You only need to hold humanity to increase your drop rate, no need to be human. Also get the Drake Sword = instant easy mode.

At first thats true but after Blightown the lack of scaling the drake sword has makes it a hinderance in later areas like Sens fortress and anor londo.

My mistake, Drake Sword easy mode only applies up to the Darkroot basin I think, after that he'd have to get either the Fury sword or any other chaos weapon.