Dark Souls. Why should I keep playing?

[Chairman Miaow]

If you are struggling that far in, and think you have to grind, then clearly you are not anywhere near as good as you claim to be. Fine if you don't like it, but it's really nowhere near as hard as people make it out to be.

 

[lionsprey]

Just yesterday, I was hanging out with some friends at my University, and one of them brought his PS3 with Dark Souls. During an interlude where everyone was sort of doing their own thing (half of them were playing D&D) I figured, "hey, I'll give this a try". I wanted to see what this legendary difficulty factor was, to see what all the fuss was about.
I was really disappointed =|

At first, I was dying quite frequently because I don't play PS3 at all, and I wasn't used to the combat mechanics, but after the first boss and roaming around for an hour and a half, I realized how simple the game is. Every single enemy has a weakness that they expose in their attack chain. If you evade and defend for long enough, you will see that weakness, and they will continue to show it. All combat is, is knowing how to defeat each enemy when that weakness shows. Once I knew that, every enemy fell beneath my scimitar and rapier. I was still getting hit (I had only been playing the game for 2 hours really) but I wasn't getting insta-gibbed like I was at first. Even these annoying as hell shield/lance enemies that had an annoying weakness, were easymode.
I wanted to test my theory about this, so I got my friend (who's PS3 it was) to take me to the last boss, Lord of Cinder. After playing around with his character to get a feel for his weapon and movement speed, I started to fight Cinder. Like in my new game, I watched his attacks while evading (can't defend against his OP swings really) and figuring out where my opening was. He does a 3-chain attack when you stay within 2-3 arms reach of him where he attacks twice horizontally, then does a vertical slash into the ground that leaves him wide open. Roll behind, heavy slash once, then roll away again before he swipes you, and repeat. Over the course of 5 minutes, I was hit about 3-4 times (because I was greedy and wanted to be done) but had made Cinder, the last boss of a new game++ look like a cake walk.

...And this game is supposed to be table-flippingly hard?! Half the "difficulty" is finding that weak spot of the enemy, and the other half is dealing with large packs of enemies. The combat is hilariously simple to figure out if you have the patience for it.

I consider a game difficult when you know exactly what to do, but executing it is tricky and challenging. Like getting medals on some of the levels of Star Fox. Hell, I still consider Halo: CE on single player Legendary, to be one of the hardest games I have ever played.

sigh your friend showed you the wrong things if you really wanted to see what it was about the last fight with the lord of cinder is just a simple 1vs1 (or 2 vs 1) boss fight. if you really want to "cheat" and jump straight into the action try playing Sens fortress followed by anor londo

 

[K1CKER]

If you are struggling that far in, and think you have to grind, then clearly you are not anywhere near as good as you claim to be. Fine if you don't like it, but it's really nowhere near as hard as people make it out to be.

Why are people like you posting without even reading the whole OP or understanding what`s written?

Let me translate what I said for you: I said it`s not HARD, but grindy and annoying and sometimes cheap. Understand now?

Your post is useless as well as your opinions of my "skills".

 

[Torrasque]

sigh your friend showed you the wrong things if you really wanted to see what it was about the last fight with the lord of cinder is just a simple 1vs1 (or 2 vs 1) boss fight. if you really want to "cheat" and jump straight into the action try playing Sens fortress followed by anor londo

He didn't offer to show me Cinder, I asked him to show me Cinder since he's the last boss, and I've always believed the last boss of any game should be the most difficult boss or the longest boss. I've dealt with mid-bosses harder than Cinder.
Even still, I think my strategy of just watching and waiting for the opening and then rinsing and repeating, would work on any boss.

My point isn't that I am upset that Cinder was easy, I am upset that he was so easy to figure out how to beat and that he wasn't impossibly hard; something that this game always gets branded as.

Except that you never made it there.

Point?
If I get someone to go against Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time after an hour of gameplay, they are probably going to die a whole lot because they have no idea what to do. The fact that I was able to beat Cinder after a few hours of gameplay in the beginning stages of the game on new game++, is pretty sad.

 

[Jolly Co-operator]

The only reason you should keep playing is if you enjoy the gameplay and the challenge. If you're not enjoying yourself, then go ahead and stop playing.

As far as advice with the Taurus demon goes, try climbing to the top of the tower where the archers are, and then jumping off and attacking him for massive damage. Alternatively, since you're not too far in the game yet, you could start over with a character that has better ranged capabilities.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Simonoly]

So I`ve been playing Dark Souls lately, I really wanted to know what all the fuss was about, and I`ve gotta say it`s just stupid.

People keep praising it it`s good because it`s hard, but that`s not really difficulty, it`s just game design made to waste your time.

I want to make it clear, I`m not BAD at the game, I can do all the moves easy, all the counter kills, kicks and jump attacks, I don`t mind at all that I have no map, I can remember an area without difficulty.

I don`t mind that basically any enemy can kill me if I make mistakes, that`s fine.
I don`t mind that I lose all my souls if I die, you should lose a lot if you die.

What IS NOT fine is that I have to grind to the same area 100 times if a boss kills me.

I`m at the early Taurus Demon and I can get to him and clear all the 30 or so minions before him without even being touched if I`m careful, but WHY do I have to do it EVERY TIME HE KILLS ME?

It`s just boring and stupid and a waste of my time.

Even worse is the fact that if I were willing to be a mindless drone and just grind this area forever I can get to any level, just kill minions, go to fire, make them respawn, kill again, FOREVER, and get to any level I want.



So I wanted to ask all of you who like this game and got to really high levels in it, Is it worth it? Is the later game content good or just the same boring grind all the way through?

Are you playing online? Everything makes more sense when you're playing online.

Later on in the game you can fast travel between bonfires and you open up loads of shortcuts, so I find you hardly ever grind in the second half of the game.

 

[SergeantAnt]

These tips will make this game so much more enjoyable for you, know they did for me!

First off what kind of character are you rolling?

Second you should never have to grind. I played a knight and was fine mostly. The only 2 spots you should grind it's kind of cheap, but worth it because it saves time and you can't over powerlevel at them...
So after running past the red dragon on the bridge, find a shortcut by ladder down to the bonfire before the taurus demon actually. Run up and have the dragon burn all the zombies on the bridge, easy souls.

Then the main power level spot is in the forest(watch it on youtube or something) where you have guys jump off a ledge.

Usually i'm against little exploites but for this one i made an exception to save hours of my life >.<

 

[Chairman Miaow]

If you are struggling that far in, and think you have to grind, then clearly you are not anywhere near as good as you claim to be. Fine if you don't like it, but it's really nowhere near as hard as people make it out to be.

Why are people like you posting without even reading the whole OP or understanding what`s written?

Let me translate what I said for you: I said it`s not HARD, but grindy and annoying and sometimes cheap. Understand now?

Your post is useless as well as your opinions of my "skills".

Then what do you mean by grindy if you don't mean you have to grind because it's too hard? That's the only definition of grinding I've heard used in this context. No need to be rude. Your entire OP came across as "I'm awesome, your stupid game is crap, shut up". I was just saying fine if you don't like it, but don't make shit up about it, because you don't have to grind at all. Obviously I have misunderstood what you meant about grind.

 

[ColeusRattus]

How does placing the checkpoint further back make the game more difficult?

And it's not like the trial-and-error element is removed by forcing the player to fight all the way back to the boss. You still have to try-and-err, you just lose more when you err.

From the sound of things, I'm sure I'd be enjoying the game even less than the OP. I can absolutely respect the idea of making a player's failure meaningful, but this isn't meaningful, it's just torturous. Like, old school Nintendo platformer torturous. "Oh, did you miss the jump onto a platform you couldn't actually see on the screen before you jumped at it? Ssssorry about that, have fun replaying the level again!"

Well, even though a tad far fetched, I'd like to try to compare it to playing the piano:

The difficulty of playing a piano doesn't come from the skill needed to hit a single note, but from hitting the right notes in the right order and rythm.

Now if you'd have a save point before playing every note, playing any piece would not be difficult anymore because you could repeat every single note of that piece until you hit the right one. It would only take time for you to succeed, but no skill.

Now it's the same with checkpoits that are too frequent or too close to difficult encounters: you need less skill to succeed, but only enough time to get lucky once and proceed to the next checkpoint.

 

[The Almighty Grigard]

What IS NOT fine is that I have to grind to the same area 100 times if a boss kills me.

I`m at the early Taurus Demon and I can get to him and clear all the 30 or so minions before him without even being touched if I`m careful, but WHY do I have to do it EVERY TIME HE KILLS ME?

A lot of people in this thread has failed to mention the shortcuts.

Yes, the Taurus demon bonfire sucks bigtime since it has no shortcuts. During the rest of the game however, you will find doors or other passages that can't be accessed when you find them. These can be opened from the other side and after that used as a shortcut.

For example, in Ariamis you encounter a gate more or less immediately after entering the area. After exploring the area you can then open it from the other side, letting you run from the start to the boss area in about 1 minute and fight maybe 8 basic enemies.

I've only just completed Anor Londo, but almost all areas so far have had a really short path to the boss after you've found one or two shortcuts. Just remember that fog gates / white light usually means that you are progressing towards the boss or entering the boss room.

 

[TilMorrow]

...and I`ve gotta say it`s just stupid.

People keep praising that it's good because it`s hard, but that`s not really difficulty, it`s just game design made to waste your time.

I can immediately take from this that you're not far in the game.

I want to make it clear, I`m not BAD at the game, I can do all the moves easy, all the counter kills, kicks and jump attacks, I don`t mind at all that I have no map, I can remember an area without difficulty.

I don`t mind that basically any enemy can kill me if I make mistakes, that`s fine.
I don`t mind that I lose all my souls if I die, you should lose a lot if you die.

I'm confused here. A moment ago you were saying you had a huge problem with the game's design. Now you sound like a hypocrite.

What IS NOT fine is that I have to grind through the same area a 100 times if a boss kills me.

I`m at the early Taurus Demon and I can get to him and clear all the 30 or so minions before him without even being touched if I`m careful, but WHY do I have to do it EVERY TIME HE KILLS ME?

Ah, so you're at the first legitimate boss that most people head to face after the tutorial. Now I see. Firstly, you don't have to grind through the same area a 100 times when he kills you. Go check out the Graveyard + Catacombs if you can or New Londo Ruins. Then come back from their gloomly depths and hug that demon for being one of the most forgiving bosses in the game before mashing his brains in.

It`s just boring and stupid and a waste of my time.

Well if it's a waste of your time why don't you just return the game? No one's forcing you to play it.

Even worse is the fact that if I were willing to be a mindless drone and just grind this area forever I can get to any level, just kill minions, go to fire, make them respawn, kill again, FOREVER, and get to any level I want.

Actually No. In theory, you could if you had a year of no commitments and free time that started at the release of the game then by the time it's release anniversary comes roun again you might have reached level 30 if you didn't die too many times. Otherwise, no you can't. Seriously, grinding for 25-50 exp per kill in the starter area is going to get you nowhere fast.

So I wanted to ask all of you who like this game and got to really high levels in it, Is it worth it? Is the later game content good or just the same boring grind all the way through?

The later game content is definitely worth it. The sadistic joke that is Sen's Fortress, the frightening slog of Anor Londo, the chilling struggle in the Crystal Archives, the terribles depths of the New Londo Ruins and the strange strolls of blighttown. Yes the later content is definitely worth it.
Also I read you're further posts, I hope you get stuck on the Kite Drake and getting one of the best starter swords for being an ass towards people giving you help.

Also, just asking, is there a shortcut in New Londo Ruins to the Four Kings battle? Killed them on my first try *cough* not bragging *cough* but now playing on NG+ and I would hate to walk all the way from Firelink to get there...

I'm still stuck on those monsters in my first game. Doesn't help that due to stupid coding that the trapped Pyromancer in the cellar before the sewers attacked me after I freed him and I had to end his life so I don't have access to the Iron Skin spell now. I remember there was a ledge nearby their tower entrance that I fell onto from one of the ruin's pathways and then had to drink one of my flasks to heal. I can't remember exactly where it is but the pathway I was on was near to the building with the guy on top.

 

[CAMDAWG]

The part you've just described is by far the worst in the game for the grindyness. The only other ones that come close are Smough and Ornstein, and Nito. S/O is onlu bad because they're a tough boss, so they kill you a lot, and Nito has a nasty leadup but is a really easy boss when you get down to it.

It gets heaps better. Especially once you've levelled up a bit more. Despite your choice of class at the beginning, they're all pretty much everymen. Once you focus on magic, or speed, or burden-carrying, everything gets a bit easier.

 

[Crumpster]

How are you not able to run past the enemies from the bonfire to the Taurus Demon?

They stab you in the back? Dem rollin' skeelz ain't wat u maid dem up 2 b, eh?
Are you not able to see them because they're behind you? Twist dat right stick to rotate dat cam.

So far, there have been no boss where I had to "grind" my way back to because I died, you can run past everything. I'm only missing Gravelord and Lord of Cinder and the longest bonfire -> boss run I ever had took me about 2 minutes and that's because I didn't use the nearest bonfire.
If 2 minutes of running after you've died is too much for you, just skip it now, because it is going to happen more than just this once.

On another note, I love the game and I agree that it isn't as hard as it's made out to be.

 

[Westaway]

Well, the real fun begins around Sen's Castle. I was just like you. The trek to the Taurus was pretty bad. But it gets much fairer and funner.

 

[Scarim Coral]

With that sort of mindset I guess you would hate some of the olden games well any games that send you back to the start of the level when a boss killed you (E.g. UN Squadron aka Area 88).

Well ok I don't blame you since I do hate that type of frustration but to me it does feel very rewarding once you finally defeated that boss and move on.

 

[Winthrop]

snip

No offense, but despite your comment I don't think you are great at the game. Maybe you are mechanically good but it takes a lot more than that. First play through it took me FOREVER to beat the Taurus Demon. You know why? I wasn't good at the game.

Second play through with a new character I did everything before the Taurus Demon and killed it in under 15 minutes without a single death. Not to say I'm particularly good at the game. I get my ass whooped by the Hydra still. The game takes strategy in a number of ways. You need appropriate equipment. If you can't block his attacks or take his hits, switch to light armor so you move faster and can roll more easily. If you can't get in a hit because he is too fast, switch to a faster weapon (sword or dagger instead of ax). You also need strategy on what you do. Like with the Asylum Demon how you did drop attacks and you need to keep spinning around it.

In the case of the Taurus Demon, as everyone has said do drop attacks. To do this, kite him to the end opposite the tower, give him the slip, climb the tower, and you can drop very easily. Also the movement applies here. Buy the chain mail from the guy rather than using plate and equip it so that you can be fast enough to run from one side to the other. When he attacks roll under him (think final battle of Ocarina of Time for that part) and he will hardly land a hit. Don't use any estus before you get to him and drink it after he attacks so you don't get hit while drinking. If you are running out of it by the time you reach him, level up or practice the fights. Find new strategies, pull individuals with the bow (buy the bow if you haven't and you have enough dexterity). Most importantly get counters down so you can take out the guys with spears quickly and efficiently. They make amazing tanks if you can't counter as they can attack with their shields up.

 

[Saviordd1]

If you quit before Anor Lando you are missing the best parts

I hate these excuses.

"It gets better later! I promise!"

Meanwhile other games amuse me in 5 minutes from start to finish...
Guess which one I'm more likely to spend time in...

 

[Kahunaburger]

Meanwhile other games amuse me in 5 minutes from start to finish...
Guess which one I'm more likely to spend time in...

Personally, I'd rather have a game that is a pain for the first hour, then gets really good, than a game that starts out sort of entertaining and stays sort of entertaining. Maybe that's just me.