Day One: Garry's Incident Devs Accused of Censoring Bad Review

[webkilla]

The biggest problem with this DMCA reporting system (which everyone seems to agree is horribly broken and open to exploitation) is that Google has made it damn near impossible to actually contact them about it

I mean really, I would dare each and every one of you to try to find an email address to google or youtube that you can send a complaint about this to.

Google's 'contact us' page is nothing but a gateway into a knowlegde database that goes deeper than wikipedia, yet tells you absolutely nothing useful - at least for the purposes of finding means to contact Google about this

They have purposely made it prohibitively difficult to ever call them on this this - and secondly, even if you do get an email sent to them... then what?

They're simply doing what the law tells them that they have to do - to enable and respect DMCA reporting.

To those saying that a simple solution would be to put the burden of proof on the company or individual filing the DMCA claim, then you have to realize that doing so would simply screw over all the little people... making claims. Big and easily recognizable companies can easily say "this is ours, take it down" - but if its some original track by some unknown composer, then how can he/she actually prove that its his? That'd require somehow sending copies of the music to youtube/google, but how can they be sure its not just the same stuff that's already been uploaded, and that the claimant isn't just a troll trying to get the music taken down? Not everyone can afford expensive lawyers to sign off on things like that.

TLR - its a broken system both ways, even if you simply flip the burden of proof on the claimants


IMO the worst aspect of it is how this affects international law. The DMCA thing is a US law, and I sit in Denmark. I shouldn't be subject to US law. Sure, youtube is a US company... but the internet is global. What we ideally need are copyright laws that are equal across the globe...

 

[Lord_Gremlin]

Wild game studious basically committed suicide right now. Why? Why would they ever thought it was a good idea? It's not like game is questionable quality, it's absolute trash, the kind you cannot sugarcoat or polish.

 

[Eiv]

I think the solution is simple. Let Yahtzee review it. Let him go full guns blazing bat shit crazy on these idiotic f'cktards. The absolute smugness and gall of these people make me sick.

 

[Oskuro]

an maliciousness, so I'd chalk all this episode up to stressed out people not knowing how to handle negative feedback.

Yes, I'm quoting myself.

I hadn't watched TotalBiscuit's video in the article before posting, so I have to retract my assumption. It does seem, from the evidence he presents, that the developers know their game is a mess, and are trying to boost sales for as long as possible by any means.

So sympathy lost.

Here's hoping that Google works out the kinks of the system, because people being screwed by Youtube and fleeing elsewhere (see: That Guy With The Glasses and most of its contributors jumping ship to Blip)is too common an issue to ignore.

 

[Tombsite]

IMO the worst aspect of it is how this affects international law. The DMCA thing is a US law, and I sit in Denmark. I shouldn't be subject to US law. Sure, youtube is a US company... but the internet is global. What we ideally need are copyright laws that are equal across the globe...

I agree with most of what you've said but you're a little bit wrong here. You're not being subjected to US law. Google is not required to allow you use if their services. They can deny service to anyone as long as that denial is not a result of discrimination.
We all like to talk about freedom of speech but we forget that a lot of the platforms that we use that freedom of speech is owned and operated by private (typically US based) companies. Sadly I can't see any way a government run alternative could do better.

 

[Hazy]

Edit: Apparently he's a pretty cool guy and I just misjudged him.

Take this photo of a Finnish Lapphund as my way of apologizing.

 

[gphjr14]

Someone brought this up about a year ago, you can mark a channel and have a video pulled with little or no investigation on the part of youtube. Videos meant to promote interest and show appreciation for movies and games gets censored.

Edit: I really need Jim Sterling to cover this.

 

[Yuuki]

I think the solution is simple. Let Yahtzee review it. Let him go full guns blazing bat shit crazy on these idiotic f'cktards. The absolute smugness and gall of these people make me sick.

As much as I love Yahtzee more than any other critic, he simply wouldn't have the same impact as TotalBiscuit because:
1) Yahtzee is nowhere near as big/famous as TB
2) Yahtzee is more of a comedy-style critic who's job is to pick flaws out of EVERY game, so him abusing the shit out of a game wouldn't be too different than what he usually does

TotalBiscuit was basically the PERFECT person that this idiotic developer/CEO tried to fuck with. He's a bit like JimQuisition in the "rebellious" sense that he fights for consumers. I don't know anyone else who would have blown this back into a developers' face as hard as TB...this guy can single-handedly do so much damage.

 

[GAunderrated]

I hate Youtube's "shoot first, ask questions later" policy with regards to copyright claims for just this reason.

I used to be a semi-active uploader, but I started getting hit with claims on videos that clearly fell under fair use. I never even monetized my channel, but that didn't matter. It's one of the main reasons why I stopped (along with no longer having the time or inclination).

I know I'm not the only one either. I have a list of inactive or deleted channels I used to follow that fell victim to bullshit copyright claims, be it from a faceless corporation like Warner Music Group to random assholes flagging videos for shits and giggles. Simply put, the system is broken and needs a complete overhaul. If Google wants quality content on Youtube, they have to provide the means to protect providers from shit like this.

You are not the only one. I used to do a form of lets play and more of videos to help get good indie games known to others. My channel was extremely small since it just started and wasn't monetized in any way (because I enjoyed doing it for fun) and even I had to deal with Youtube's shoot first ask questions later policy.

Unless you are part of a station it is nearly impossible to avoid getting false flagged. Heck as we have seen even some indie devs are dumb enough to go after one of the biggest fish.

I hope this issue becomes wide known enough for Youtube to take a look at trying to get a better system in place. As TB said in his video, Youtube wants better content so more people view but they do next to nothing to protect the people they monetize off of. That is just lazy.

 

[Crazy Zaul]

Stand in front of a mirror and says 'I summon the lord of chungus' 3 times, and then a Jimquisition about this issue will appear.

 

[Micalas]

Of all the critics to try and censor... Wild Games Studio goes after the one who has a law degree.

Oh wow, I didn't know that about him. Very cool. Good luck, Wildstar.

 

[Canadish]

Definitely a foul ball on the developers part. The TB's video was pretty comprehensive, and I'm late to the party here, so I may sound a bit like a broken record.

This shouldn't have happened, the developers are a bunch of scumbags acting like children, Youtubes system is broken and needs a MAJOR overhaul to give the little guy some protection. Credit to TB for not just washing his hands of it because he had the bigger stick in this case.
This is a direct affront to free speech. Not even something well intended that's going to indirectly damage it, it's just a straight up insult. I hope some kind of punishment is met out and it doesn't give big Publishers any ideas.

More than anything here, I hope this gets the discussion on the topic going. This is a bigger problem than "Character X's skirt should be at LEAST 3 inches longer!"

 

[Zipa]

Of all the critics to try and censor... Wild Games Studio goes after the one who has a law degree.

Oh wow, I didn't know that about him. Very cool. Good luck, Wildstar.

Not only that he is part of a quite a large network who have a lot of weight to throw round, which I imagine they will be coming down like a ton of bricks on these devs.

 

[LordLundar]

Also, i found this on the Steam forums [http://steamcommunity.com/app/242800/discussions/0/810938810880057618/].

I'm sure as hell not one to speak for the devs. I myself feel that, up until the DMCA issue, they were doing a good job at least improving the game, and at least getting it to a fun and reasonable state. They were slow at first, but it got better over time. I do like the product so far. Although, I suppose I am pretty biased.

I'm not a fan of TB in any way, and I find him overly obnoxious, but I will take his side on this matter. The devs handled this VERY poorly, and, for lack of better term, ♥♥♥♥♥torming that ensued made this a much worse issue.

However, regardless of my personal stance on this matter, it needs to be known that the ranting posts over the exact same topic need to stop. Temporary bans will start to be doled out to those who continue and posts that cover the same thing will be locked.

EDIT: If you are posting in this thread, refrain from cursing. Using ♥♥♥♥♥torm is acceptable, but use some thought when posting.

So it seems someone at Wild acknowledges the issue.

MadCrayolaz is a Volunteer Forum Mod, not an employee of the devs. Orange Names are Steam Forum Mods while Green names are devs.

 

[Another]

I like TB myself and am a regular viewer, even when I disagree with his opinion he's pretty well spoken and informed enough to present a reasonable perspective. I say this because no matter what you think of him, good or ill. He's pretty much the last guy on YouTube you want to fuck with.

The guy seems like a genuinely decent dude, but he's got a temper on him, a large channel, the backing of polaris and maker studios, and the support of a lot of indie devs and other YouTubers. Wild Game Studios is punching way WAY above their weight class.

 

[JarinArenos]

Oh look, another dev I won't buy anything from. Welcome to the club, guys!

 

[Zombie_Moogle]

There should be some sort of penal system for this kind of thing. Like making more than 3 false copyright claims makes your drinking water toxic.

I would have it go back and forth, if you flag something that is covered under fair use like this three times you lose ALL rights to use the system to have items taken down, just like people who post copyrighted material 3 times are removed from the system.

Completely agree, but good luck getting YouTube to risk pissing off advertisers. Many of the people making these kind of takedown requests are the same ones advertising on the site*, ironically generating the revenue for the video creators.

I know copyright is important and everything, but it seems like nine times out of ten, it's just used to screw over the little guy and stifle his creativity. (I'm aware TB is probably the bigger guy in this instance, but my point stands)

I'm willing to bet Wild Games Studio didn't bother checking on that. They assumed he was just another YouTube reviewer, not one of such notoriety & with a penchant for being publicly active.

I bet they know now ;-)