Dead Space 2 Is No Resident Evil 4

[Levethian]

\But i must say, i think the fold-up thingy is quite cool. I mean, sure, it isn´t espcially REALISTIC or BELIEVABLE, but it looks damn cool and like you said yourself, we don´t need realism in every game, right?

Fine line between realism & plausibility. A game can evade mundanity without betraying common sense.

 

[Captain Bobbossa]

I think you think to much. Yes it's impractical and unrealistic but its cool.

 

[hermes]

And yes i do agree with one thing Yahtzee said (or wrote), the game is just inconsistent in its messages. Gameplay is a sci-fi/gore fans dream and the story just feels like it was just stapled in then revelant cutscenes added afterwards.

That is a pretty serious problem in most games, even the good ones.

Some of the examples I can think of include Niko Bellic (troublesome, angsty past vs running over hookers and shooting cars with a bazooka), Chuck Greene (concerned parent of his motherless daughter vs riding on a tricycle over zombies wearing a bra) or even Bioshock's Jack (all the deep, intellectual conflicts can be solved with a hand that shoots bees and a wrench to the face)

I believe the main problem is that designers have a hard time marring a relatable character (which most confuse with troubled and angsty) with a badass force of nature most designers want to evoke. One of the best characters in that sense was Kratos in God of War 1, until the new directors make him extra angsty and extra badass at the same time for no good reason.

It's possible that a solution is to either tone down the characters action, at the risk of making a game that is quite boring.

Or another way is to make the story optional or just ignore the it entirely. Monster Hunter games largely ignore the story before Tri, and that led to fighting stuff like...

Of course, there is also a third, best alternative. And it is making the gameplay suit the character and the character suit the gameplay.

Look at Batman: Arkham Assylum. I believe one of the reasons why people liked that game so much was because it makes you feel like Batman, not only because you can hit guys in the face, but because you can also lurk in the shadows and hunt them down one by one. Others have tried making Batman a beat'em up or a Contra-like game and it doesn't work... You can replace Batman with any other character in those games and it would feel the same. A FPS starring Batman wouldn't work, no matter how much (or little) you tone the action or how much (or little) attention you pay to the storyline.

On the other hand, look at the last Alone in the Dark or Dead Space. Those are survival horror games in name only (even when the "survival horror" genre is more like a marketing invention). Horror games try to get to you with a sense of dread, loneliness and underpower... there is nothing helpless in an ex-marine with a flamethrower or a heavily armored guy with futuristic weapons. That is why most sucessfully dreadful games tend to be starred by unarmed kids. Its like yatzhee's review on Darksiders: "you don't get to be angsty when you are carrying a 2 meters sword and can cut a demon in half with a single swing... You are a monster truck that walks like a man"

Games is one of the few mediums that can tell a lot without relaying on text or dialog alone. If your character doesn't comunicate something to me, or what he does and says is not what he plays like, then the character designer and the writer are not doing their jobs. Maybe one of them thought they were doing an RPG and the other one thought they were doing a fighting game, or maybe they could replace the stoic heavylifting old guy with a slim lolita girl and the game would be the same... Either way, someone there is making a poor job of selling the setting to me.

 

[ninjajoeman]

I hate the idea of all these little parts fitting together, just seems that making a power armor thats two or three (counting the helmet as seperate piece) is more practicle than a suit of armor that reqiures hundreds of small components being assembled by half a dozen robotic arms, and basically cant be removed or equiped in the field. I let it slide for the Space MArines from SC, simply because they only do it once (before meeting a untimely, but predictable, death).

I think it is adjusting so much because its calibrating, also this is a movie the fact that it is doing all that stuff makes it seem that there is more life in the suit. Kinda giving the suit its own techy personallity. for instance if the suit just went on and off it wouldn't make much of an impact, but if the suit did this insanely complicated assembly then you think "whoa,that is pretty weird I wonder how it does that." Hell in the second movie he is basically upgrading his suit while other people are trying to take his suit, its all about the suit.

 

[FuzzyRaccoon]

Honestly, I recognize that Dead Space 2 wasn't scary. But me? I DON'T CARE. I think it's a great game, and while I agree that there's no way it's a horror game, I still found it to be more emotive than the first installment. I think they did a great job on it.

Also, seriously, RE4 is scary? Did I play a different game?

 

[Candescence]

Amazingly, one game DOES do the helmet thing properly - Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey. The Demonica suits, while their helmets look kind of weird, have to be taken off like any other helmet, and it looks large and thick enough to provide practical protection.

 

[cerebus23]

We have already seen the necromorphs we know what they are what they do and how to kill them, if your are a ds fan then you have seen the movies the comics and etc.

There was no mystery left by the time ds2 hit, even if you never played the first game, you probably had heard about it.

DS1 had the advantage of having a heavy dose of unknown going for it. All the monsters each type was new, you never knew what you were going to see.

It is like alien vs aliens, you know what the monster looks like, so there is no shock value in the full reveal. DS2 took the same ques from alien and aliens, and just went the action/gore heavy route.

Most gamers are pretty darn jaded anyway, few of us were scared by doom or doom 3 no matter how many demonic hellspawn burst out of the wall wanting to eat your face, after a bit it was just point and fire until it stops moving.

Tension is a good point going back to the old ship was the most creeppy part of the game just waiting for all hell to break loose, and when it kept no breaking loose the tension just ramped up much more effecting than the more or less constant slaughter fest you go thru past 10 minutes into the game.

I noted the helmet thing my logic part of my brain pretty much pointed out immediately that the helmet was unworkable and nonsensical, especially the security suits with how bulky they were, but dammit they looked cool and the whole fold out thing looked cool, so i personally said f it and let it slide.

DS@ was action focused that is the bottom line, fact the first game was seen as some touchstone of horror does not mean that the second game had to follow that path.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

Sounds like a boring class. "Not a single one" is hyperbole, but a major goal of those classes should be to encourage discussion and promote individuals to think for themselves. In many cases there is a "right" answer that most people agree upon, but if we start there, and there's no discussion of alternative viewpoints, you have a class full of boring people with no ideas of their own, or you're analyzing works that probably don't require analysis.

I'm in complete agreement with you, actually. I can't stand lecturers, or even other classmates, who try to force their interpretation of a work through the idea that what the author 'intended' is the only way you can read or judge a text.

I think you might be misapplying intentional fallacy here, though. If someone says "This is crap because it's absurd" it does matter whether they're reviewing Airplane or The Matrix. If Dead Space *were* a self-aware parody of the sci-fi horror genre, it would be pointless to criticize it for being over the top and absurd. It's only meta-criticism if you arrive at that conclusion through developer interviews or something similar. If you arrive at the "intent" conclusion through analysis *of the work*, it's fair game, and not a meta-criticism. I don't think any of the people you're referring to were getting their data from meta-sources.

Particularly because I think the intent *was* to be serious and genuine, so I doubt any such sources exist.

When I apply the intentional fallacy I mean in the way people leap to the defence of a game by dismissing any criticism that can be generated through comparison to another game. People who say 'It's not trying to be Resident Evil 4' are missing the point: in the minds of enough audience members, the game is similar enough in tone to Resident Evil 4 to warrant comparison. Whatever ambition the developers may have had in mind is not enough to warrant ignoring anyone's opinion about how they reacted to the game.

 

[T. S. Wolf]

Ok, i played through Dead Space 2 two times; not because i really liked it, but because i was trying to find something in the game that i could reflect upon and say "this made the whole experience worth while". No such epiphany occurred to me in either run through. While i can't say the original Dead Space was by any means the best horror game ever invented i still really enjoyed it and actually found the plot, though cut and pace, moderately disturbing. Dead Space 2, as far as i can tell, is a ripoff of its predecessor that got so bent on trying to appease to the juvenile crowd that it comes out looking like something a ten year old could have made.

Now, before Dead Space 2 fans get out their limited addition plasma cutters and start trying to hunt me down, let me say that i still found Dead Space 2 fun. Any game where you can run around with increasingly pimped out weaponry can easily get that point in its favor. Fun, however, is the only thing that Dead Space 2 offers, and that makes it a fail in my book. A game is supposed to be like a good book or movie where you leave the experience with something at the end; whether its a different outlook on a certain concept or with something as simple as the thought "that was really interesting". All i left Dead Space 2 with was a increased tolerance for blood and a new standard of lower tier gaming. Huzzah EA; you have now set the standard for my "crap list" bar.

As for the helmet thing, well, i personally thought it was cool looking; but Isaac did it so many times that it just got irritating.

 

[TarkXT]

Getting off the whole folding helmet thing.

Honestly I think you have something going with the generic monster screaming thing, Honestly the level that unnerved me most ever was Ravenholme in Half Life 2. You knew that the person inside the headcrab is in all likelihood dead. But the screams and moans that emit from the creatures, especially as you light them on fire...

It added a lot. It gave you the dark thoughts that maybe the headcrab was controlling the body but the mind and soul were still trapped still feeling every tiny ounce of agony that you or the crab inflicted.

That, I think should have been the direction they could have taken with the necromorphs adn made them more effective as an engine of terror. Have them call out to you in alien gibberish. Have them moan with all too human cries and grunts when isaac gives his Reb Brown man roar. Give the impression that whatever is getting to them(virus? fungus?) didn't quite remove every ounce of humanity from them.

As far as what kind of horror. Science-fiction horror, which is gory with a side of psychological. See Event Horizon, The Thing or the original Alien.

 

[Devil's Due]

I loved Dead Space 1, and I mean I really loved it. To the point that I played it through three times on different difficulties and collected every Trophy. It was scary and had just enough gore and in my opinion a good story.

Dead Space 2 on the other hand... I have yet to buy. The reviews, the comments and trailers have put me off. Games with gore are good, but games just deliberatly trying to be gory and 'Gruesome' just dont appeal to me. For instance I have never seen the appeal of the Saw films beyond the story behind them. I dont want to watch a man pull his eye out or cut his arm off or whatever.

I'll probably get the game eventually, when its cheaper probably so i can see for myself. But im already dissapointed that the series has taken this direction.

What you talking about...? You're putting comments from people on the internet above your own admiration for a video game series? Dead Space 2 is pretty good, it's not amazing and not as worrying as the first--as you already know what the enemy is now. But it's still an amazingly well done game for the most part. As for your "gore" concern, there's no more gore than what was in Dead Space 1. And you dislike Gore yet loved Dead Space 1, then I am at a loss, as Dead Space 1 was rather filled with such things. I remember because I have as well collected every achievement, suit, item, and text-log from the first.

As for the eye situation, there's only one part in the game that is even close to saw-level (even then it's rather tame, unless you screw up the sequence), and that's it. Is a few seconds of being uncomfortable more important than a possible 9 to 14 (depending on difficulty you choose) hour long game?

Just rent the game for a few bucks if you're curious, or at least buy it used, but if you loved the original then there's no way you should put off the second. Hell, the Train and Zero-Jump sections were worth the price of the game alone personally. Not to mention the rather sweet second boss battle. (Though I'll admit the first one is rather boring.)

So go try it out, Unitologist! Make Altman proud!

 

[Normandyfoxtrot]

I suppose my ultimate problems with the review assumes that the reader enjoyed RE4 and HL2 more and I didn't. I certainly found DS2 more fun than the prissy RE4 PC and no do talk to me about it a prissy pc port and it's not capcoms fault. No, it is god damn capcoms fault and so yeah, no love from me there. half-life2 frankly I find it a over hyped cookie cutter silent stoic emotionless robot in the silent unconnected protagonist like HALO with a shitty physics toy stapled to its ass and the same kind of vague uninteresting story. So, yeah I guess I'm functionally lobotomized fine and I suppose this ultimate counters no point and decays into "I think your rating it harshly because your rating shit/mediocre high." but I suppose everyone is allowed a rant time to time after all you make a living off it.

 

[Kilgengoor]

Oh jeez. Now I find myself in the very difficult position of adding my viewpoint to 120+ posts talking about more or less the same, while attempting to add new information to something that's been commented over and over again. Anyway, here I go.

Foldable helmets: yeah, they're unpractical from a design point of view, BUT yeah, they're cool as hell. I personally think in the case of Dead Space 2 they stick especially out since, in my opinion, the suit's design makes the face section of the helmet something closer to a welding mask, in that it's a rigid, one-piece part of protective clothing. I think in DS's universe it would make a LOT more sense if the front section of the helmet just slid over the character's head. It could still be automated, it could still look cool, but you know, just add a hinge around the person's ear and let it move from front to top. Simple, elegant, and credible for the even bitchier fan. When on top it would still offer protection to ANYWHERE except the face (that is, top and back of the head) if that's the user's will. Want to have all your head exposed? Then take it off. I think that'd be the best option, while still looking cool and sci-fi and being convenient and shit. But the multiple-piece animation looks way cooler and it's still the future, so yeah: it's something we'll have to accept, same as explosions/thrusters noises in space.

Now, I'd like to stand out for something I hold very dear while on the subject: Mass Effect. I don't quite remember if that happens in Mass Effect 2, but at least on 1 the helmet comes off from virtually nowhere, which would stick out as another fairly unrealistic plot device, BUT: This game revolves around mass effect fields, which is the techno-magic used to explain a lot of the unrealistic tropes in that universe. Mass Effect makes everything lighter or heavier, which would explain that disappearing helmet: it just folds and goes unnoticed (still, it doesn't explain a 150+ item space), but hey: helmets don't need to be protective because there is an energy barrier that wards off kinetic hazards, so the helmet could be perfectly made of ultra-light alloys only designed to be hermetic, so there's that. I know Yahtzee didn't even mention that, but damn I'll show my ME fanboyism if I have the opportunity to do so.

And about the lack of human-like emotions to enemies: I think that's just lazy. In my opinion if you make everything look painful, bizarre, gorey and most importantly, if you make it happen SLOWLY, that'll be hella lot more unnerving and scary. But the game seems almost absurdly focused on showing Isaac's inner turmoil, and almost all of the horror is concentrated on making us fear for the character's safety. Which is cool, I guess, but doesn't even bother on showing us much of what happens when you turn into a monster. So the game is more "don't let me die to these non-descript things" instead of "I'M FACING ONE OF THE GALAXY'S MOST TERRIBLE HORRORS -also don't let me die while doing it". But again, that would require the game to radically change its focus and turn it into something more similar to a coral documentary about the necromorphs instead of a single person's adventure against the monsters. So it's the plot's natural trajectory and is more than expected, I guess.

So there. It isn't really a surprise to me, since I kinda felt the same way after the first Dead Space, but I thought it was something that could be improved towards a second installment: we already learned to fear the creatures, now we could feast in the bigger-than-the-universe horror and how it predates on humans OR in Isaac's personal demons. It still feels like it chose the wrong path to me.

 

[snave]

I can't wait to see how many people missed the sarcasm in the last paragraph *makes popcorn*

Easier to suspend disbelief when the problem is hidden implication of the interface, or a menu. I can understand why Yahtzee singed out the helmets but not the even bigger weapon bulk storage and weight problems.

Anyhow, those probs don't tend to come in moveies so much anyway.

 

[Motakikurushi]

While Iron-Man's suit is entirely made up of hinges and joints and flappy bits, which in reality would make the suit fall apart or malfunction really easily, it still looks, visually, impressive. Although that scene where he gets hit by a tank missile and survives is ridiculous. As for RE4, I think the closest comparison I can make with Dead Space is the similarities between the monsters and the Regenerators. Both are aesthetically similar, but Regenerators move at a much slower pace and all they do is breathe heavily. Yet they're the most terrifying enemies in the game. Subtlety and suspense really works well in any horror game, and you'd be lying if you said you didn't panic whenever you heard that breathing noise.

 

[Accountfailed]

It's called a nanosuit.

 

[Levethian]

While Iron-Man's suit is entirely made up of hinges and joints and flappy bits, which in reality would make the suit fall apart or malfunction really easily, it still looks, visually, impressive...

Tony Stark's ridiculous technology is more believable because he is an octillionaire & mega-genius. Not sure grunt engineers should have comparable funding.

Still, style over substance is the mantra these days. Not much to be done. It does look nice, if you can suspend disbelief.

 

[fwlzdxil]

Honestly I think you have something going with the generic monster screaming thing, Honestly the level that unnerved me most ever was Ravenholme in Half Life 2. You knew that the person inside the headcrab is in all likelihood dead. But the screams and moans that emit from the creatures, especially as you light them on fire...

It added a lot. It gave you the dark thoughts that maybe the headcrab was controlling the body but the mind and soul were still trapped still feeling every tiny ounce of agony that you or the crab inflicted.

The Ravenholme zombies actually scream "ЕЕЕЕБАААААТЬ! БОЛЬНО!", which means "FFUUUUUCK! IT HURTS!" in Russian.

I suppose my ultimate problems with the review assumes that the reader enjoyed RE4 and HL2 more and I didn't. I certainly found DS2 more fun than the prissy RE4 PC and no do talk to me about it a prissy pc port and it's not capcoms fault. No, it is god damn capcoms fault and so yeah, no love from me there.

They released a patch (official one, not the custom so-called "HD patch", that stuff is crap), that fixes the lost graphic effects (like fog) and lighting, so if you still have it, might want to give it another go.

 

[geizr]

I'm probably reiterating someone else's point because I don't feel like reading through all the comments.

On the subject of horror: real horror is likely just unpalatable to most people in the mainstream audience(which is the target of most games cause that's where all the money is to be had). Considering that is the target of most games, movies, and some books these days, it's not surprising one doesn't get the true horror experience from these works.

Real horror is about hopelessness and one's powerlessness to alter or even mitigate one's plight. You will descend into madness and then be destroyed. You will do this bit-by-bit and be fully aware of the process the entire time, and there will be absolutely nothing you can do to stop it. To truly screw with you, a carrot of false hope might be dangled in front of you just to spur you on to the possibility of being able to find a way out. But then, just as you see the light at the end on the long dark tunnel, it's all ripped away from you at the very last moment, revealing the true inevitability of your descent into madness and then annihilation.

Let's be honest, to most people, that just would not be fun or enjoyable. Sure, there is definitely a contingent of people that would find it to be enjoyable(H. P. Lovecraft has his fans, after all), but most mainstream audiences would not. So, in order to sell the game in massive numbers, the horror has to be toned down or altered to something more whimsical. Hell, just the fact there's actually a win condition(I'm speaking in general terms here, because I haven't actually played the series) means the true horror is lost.

Regarding the folding helmets: dude, I'm a graduate physics major. Every time I go to the movies these days, I have to take off the suspenders of disbelief else they will snap and smack me in the face, really freaking hard. So, I feel your pain, but sometimes it's better to just enjoy the ride and not try to analyze things to within a gnat's ass of precision and accuracy for realism. It's just a cool-looking concept, and that's why it gets used(of course, one can argue that cool-looking is really not a sufficient aesthetic, but that's another rant). It doesn't have to actually be feasible. It's probably something borrowed from anime as you would see something primitively similar there(the space or flight helmet that would suddenly whoosh away behind the head and neck at the push of a button).

 

[ryo02]

just searched around youtube for this (not my video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbUD5t8cVuo&feature=related starts 5 seconds into the video fold up helmets are nothing new ... although this is probably even less realistic ahem.