Dead Space 2 Is No Resident Evil 4

[aaronmcc]

"And frankly, I'm still unclear on what the whole point of the eye thing was, plot-wise, besides someone thought it would be cool to gratuitously throw in."

The point is...

SPOILER

...to convince you that Ellie is dead, just before revealing that she is quite alive, despite having lost depth perception.

 

[Lord_Gremlin]

A page dedicated to a badass helmet? Blasphemy, I say!

In Dead Space: Extraction, they actually did pull of their helmets and set them down (RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WALKWAY. Inconsiderate jerks.) and it took painfully long. I prefer the automatic fold-down helmets, if only for the aesthetics.

Anyway, I agree with the above posters, Yahtzee. If you played Vanquish, it must be reviewed! (I thought the game could have been better if 99.9% of the enemies weren't RUSSIAN and robots. So...I don't even know how to describe it. 'Hey, we beat the Russians!' 'Yeah, about that...' 'I bet we killed all them dirty, dirty commies!' 'Well...no. They were all robots. They lost enough metal to build a city and a few billion dollars.' 'Well, we lost less, right?' 'Weeeeeell...we lost most of our fleet, and pretty much 95% of the army. But hey, we still have Sam Gideon! Oh. Wait. This report says he died of lung cancer. Well FFFFFFFFFF-'

...I lost my train of thought.

Well, you've just described the reason I loved Vanquish. I'm Russian and naturally felt slightly offended when first heard about this game. However, once I've played through it and realized that it's a story about 1 (one) Russian dude who destroyed San Francisco and most of USA army with zero casualties on Russian side.

 

[Wicky_42]

OT: I think that Dead Space is a "Nu Horror". You know how they have the "Nu Metal" music? Ment for a newer generation of metal heads? Its the same thing with "Nu Horror" games.
...
In short, its a new kind of horror game, for a new generation. Us "Veteran" video gamers have been through all the horror games. Weve seen theyer progression. And because of it, the newer ones just arnt as good. Because nothing is scarier then our memories of whats scary.

Honestly, I think that that's the best justification for differing people's reactions. Some people forget that not everyone's played the whole horror genre before = it certainly never interested me. I never played a Resident Evil or a Silent Hill; not my type. Dead Space 1 was my first experience, and I loved it - it freaked the shit out of me on my first play-through, though I was used to it by play through 2.

None the less I lapped up Dead Space 2's atmosphere and loved it. I was so un-nerved though-out the first half of the game, it was awesome. Take 2, new-game plus, with a super-charged plasma cutter and advanced knowledge of the set-pieces took the edge out of it and made it just a fun fps. I can see how lovers of the horror genre would have not found the horror aspects of the game up to scratch right from the word go, but with enough exposure everything becomes staid and boring and competing with nostalgia is a *****, but to dismiss the game on niggles is to do it an injustice.

 

[aaronmcc]

Actually, the intro to Dead Space 2 is the fastest a transformation has ever occurred in the games. Usually, the person has to be dead for a fair amount of time before the flying vagina has its way with the it and even then it takes anywhere from ~5-10 seconds of sinew snapping and bone exploding before the shambling monstrosity is battle ready. Hell, I think that's literally the only occurrence where life->death->necromorph was so fast. I really believe Yahtzee is grasping for straws with that scene...granted, the fast-pass transformation is one of the first things you see in the game, but still.

Oh, and don't tell me the Stalker necromorphs didn't freak you out with their bloody bone dog faces quizzically peering out behind corners before they blind sided you and took 1/2 of your health.

Spoiler: Somewhat of a Spoiler with Argument Concealed Within

Also, what about that lovely little trip into the Ishimura where Nicole kept whispering to Isaac? That was a fairly nice bit of subtle, atmospheric horror. You go into the ship and atmosphere and tension are built for 5 or so minutes before the first monster appears...in a massive dark hallway...and when he's dead you hear a great roar and necromorphs start coming from every which way. The ship was nearly completely clean without a corpse or drop of blood to be seen (at least until the places where the cleanup crew didn't get to yet) and covered in plastic garbage bags which I must say freaked me out almost as much as the odd scene of a bottle rolling from behind a corner and when I rounded said corner, nothing was there with no way in or out from that corner besides a door which I would have heard open, ogeez

I couldn't agree more. In fact I think Dead Space 2 does a great job of building tension. You go through the Ishimura for ages, ready to be attacked at any moment but nothing happens and the tension just builds until you finally let your guard your guard down and...wham! You get ass raped by a brute and 20 necros. Hell, there's even a bit early on where a bedroom alarm clock went off and I shat myself.

 

[Phuctifyno]

Lost In Space

 

[Marik Bentusi]

People just tend to mix up "gore" or "ugly monsters" with "horror".

If you feel horrified, that's an emotion. Gore or ugly monsters that are supposed to install fear are just tools. Tools on their own can't achieve anything. They have to be used correctly.
In the attempt to create an analogy, exchange "horror" with "love" and let's say that the tool this time is a pretty face. You don't love a character just because they have a pretty face. It's a component that may play an important part for many people, but just showing a pretty face doesn't make us love this or that character.

 

[leonnasagawa]

Personally I didn't have a problem with them making the game have a little bit of each element of horror in it, some people say it's inconsistency but I say it's interesting. I felt the game had a good balance between being psychological horror, action horror and occasionally it did sometimes even feel like a horror survival particularly near the end a little before and after the regenerator monster shows up. I also liked the game's humour regardless of the small part it played in the game.

Having said that there are some things about Dead Space 2 that could have been better. Some of these are small gripes and doesn't have a major effect on my enjoyment of this game but I feel a need to express these gripes as I feel no one has mentioned them yet. For instance I didn't like how quickly dead Necromorph bodies disappear after I had killed them, there had been one case where a dead Necromorph body which I had killed disappeared in front of me when I was just about to stamp on it to get an item. This could be due to the fact that I don't have a digital TV but if that isn't the case, then it is one of those few small things that annoys me a little.

I also felt that the zero gravity and inside vent sections could have been better. When I went inside the vent one of the first things I thought was that scene from the movie Alien in which the captain is inside the vent doing something and the Alien is loose in there as well. I was really hoping to fight Necromorphs in the vent and if they provided Dead Space 2 with a tool that allows you to detect movement in the vents that would have been more complete than just going in the vent and out the other end.

The one thing I really liked in the first game was the ability to walk on walls and the ceiling in the zero gravity sections, it was fun and I was hoping that would be in the second game as well as the ability to fly around using your rocket boots. Instead they replaced ceiling/wall walking with the ability to fly anywhere you want, why can't we have both? Speaking of zero gravity, how come there wasn't more combat in those scenes? My guess is they tried to do the atmosphere trick in horror by making you paranoid by lack of enemies that works well in games like Amnesia The Dark Descent but for a game that is mainly focused on action horror, I was hoping for some more action or better yet they could done both in separate zero gravity scenarios.

I didn't like the fact you had to remove a equipped weapon to buy a new one which would have been better if it just got automatically stored in the safe, I found it annoying that you had to pay to remove all the nodes from a weapon or equipment (which I did once for the Rivet Gun which is completely useless to me)and if there are other gripes, I've probably forgotten (at this stage I'm probably nitpicking but other than that good game). One last gripe I have is the cover art. The first Dead Space, just by looking at it you can tell that it is a horror game that takes place in space that probably has a lot of gore because of the dismembered hand. Whereas the collectors edition and normal edition cover art it just gives off the impression that it's just a sci-fi game with no horror.

P.S. As for the Iron Man automatic assemble helmet, I personally wouldn't change it. It's believable because as technology advances humans get lazier and I personally think it is a lot more convenient to have a helmet that is automatically put together across your face rather than taking your helmet off when on break and then putting it back on when break is over. It just means that as long as you have that engineering suit, you can go back to work any time you want with ease.

 

[Labcoat Samurai]

Second, regarding the helmet thing, it's true that it would offer less protection, but modern engineers wear plastic hardhats on site. How much protection do you really need? And you're not going to misplace it, so that's nice. The fact that it's used in combat is sort of an unhappy turn of events that they probably weren't planning for when they designed the thing.

Isaac's helmet however is intended for space, where overall integrity is more important than the modern building site.

Yeah, so if it provides an airtight seal, it's good enough. Hard to say whether it does or not. For some reason, you have a very limited air supply in the game. Either it leaks a lot, which seems bad, or it just doesn't retain much air. It *seems* like the latter, since the capacity is upgradable.

 

[Linkassassin360]

Got to disagree with you on this one yatzhee, they did majorly improve deadspace in this one. There was alot of psychological horror, that was put inbetween all the gore, that I really enjoyed. Yes, the necromorphs were actually the least frightening part again, but atleast we got to see Isaac with a personality, and grow more demented as the story progresses and the moments of mental breakdown grow more and more intense. It would have been great if they could have somehow combined these moments with the necromorps, because they turned into safe havens due to necromorphs refusing to interrupt Nicole and Isaac's "private time." Plus there are quite a few subtle things, they just get drowned in the bloodflow from the contant mindless assult you have to fend off.

But as for deadspace being serious, I would say: Yes, but it does have a degree of self awareness. Just look at the ending of DS2: A direct parody of deadspace1's ending.

Also, the helmet being so easily removable is part of the plot, so as ridiculous as it is, its atleast somewhat justified. Plus, people in the future will be lazy as all hell, which explains why the only person you control seems to survive more than 5 minutes in any deadspace game.

 

[Labcoat Samurai]

First, the fact that people argue over the intention or meaning of something doesn't mean that it did a poor job of getting its meaning across. There are whole college courses taught in literary analysis, and not a single one of them consists of a whole group of people trivially going through every work agreeing on what it was trying to say or do.

I hope you were being sarcastic, because I've been in literature college courses where they literally do just that, no pun intended.

Sounds like a boring class. "Not a single one" is hyperbole, but a major goal of those classes should be to encourage discussion and promote individuals to think for themselves. In many cases there is a "right" answer that most people agree upon, but if we start there, and there's no discussion of alternative viewpoints, you have a class full of boring people with no ideas of their own, or you're analyzing works that probably don't require analysis.

In fact, I think more gamers should be made to sit English in college, because a lot of them could do with being introduced to the intentional fallacy. Every time someone levels a shred of criticism at any game, someone pops out of the nearest manhole and declares that 'it's not trying to be this!' The value of individual response is strangely out of favour compared to lofty ideals of some meta-criticism that overrides everything else.

I think you might be misapplying intentional fallacy here, though. If someone says "This is crap because it's absurd" it does matter whether they're reviewing Airplane or The Matrix. If Dead Space *were* a self-aware parody of the sci-fi horror genre, it would be pointless to criticize it for being over the top and absurd. It's only meta-criticism if you arrive at that conclusion through developer interviews or something similar. If you arrive at the "intent" conclusion through analysis *of the work*, it's fair game, and not a meta-criticism. I don't think any of the people you're referring to were getting their data from meta-sources.

Particularly because I think the intent *was* to be serious and genuine, so I doubt any such sources exist.

 

[hecticpicnic]

So true i was more scared of RES4 than Dead space.Yes later in RES 4 it become less scary the monsters become more and more ridicules and yo get a magnum revolver.But in dead space the necromorphes after a the first 1/4 of game i don't even care and yo don't even care for your characters life its just like oh i died *reload* and for a game like dead space that's a huge flaw.

 

[Levethian]

\But i must say, i think the fold-up thingy is quite cool. I mean, sure, it isn´t espcially REALISTIC or BELIEVABLE, but it looks damn cool and like you said yourself, we don´t need realism in every game, right?

Fine line between realism & plausibility. A game can evade mundanity without betraying common sense.

 

[Captain Bobbossa]

I think you think to much. Yes it's impractical and unrealistic but its cool.

 

[hermes]

And yes i do agree with one thing Yahtzee said (or wrote), the game is just inconsistent in its messages. Gameplay is a sci-fi/gore fans dream and the story just feels like it was just stapled in then revelant cutscenes added afterwards.

That is a pretty serious problem in most games, even the good ones.

Some of the examples I can think of include Niko Bellic (troublesome, angsty past vs running over hookers and shooting cars with a bazooka), Chuck Greene (concerned parent of his motherless daughter vs riding on a tricycle over zombies wearing a bra) or even Bioshock's Jack (all the deep, intellectual conflicts can be solved with a hand that shoots bees and a wrench to the face)

I believe the main problem is that designers have a hard time marring a relatable character (which most confuse with troubled and angsty) with a badass force of nature most designers want to evoke. One of the best characters in that sense was Kratos in God of War 1, until the new directors make him extra angsty and extra badass at the same time for no good reason.

It's possible that a solution is to either tone down the characters action, at the risk of making a game that is quite boring.

Or another way is to make the story optional or just ignore the it entirely. Monster Hunter games largely ignore the story before Tri, and that led to fighting stuff like...

Of course, there is also a third, best alternative. And it is making the gameplay suit the character and the character suit the gameplay.

Look at Batman: Arkham Assylum. I believe one of the reasons why people liked that game so much was because it makes you feel like Batman, not only because you can hit guys in the face, but because you can also lurk in the shadows and hunt them down one by one. Others have tried making Batman a beat'em up or a Contra-like game and it doesn't work... You can replace Batman with any other character in those games and it would feel the same. A FPS starring Batman wouldn't work, no matter how much (or little) you tone the action or how much (or little) attention you pay to the storyline.

On the other hand, look at the last Alone in the Dark or Dead Space. Those are survival horror games in name only (even when the "survival horror" genre is more like a marketing invention). Horror games try to get to you with a sense of dread, loneliness and underpower... there is nothing helpless in an ex-marine with a flamethrower or a heavily armored guy with futuristic weapons. That is why most sucessfully dreadful games tend to be starred by unarmed kids. Its like yatzhee's review on Darksiders: "you don't get to be angsty when you are carrying a 2 meters sword and can cut a demon in half with a single swing... You are a monster truck that walks like a man"

Games is one of the few mediums that can tell a lot without relaying on text or dialog alone. If your character doesn't comunicate something to me, or what he does and says is not what he plays like, then the character designer and the writer are not doing their jobs. Maybe one of them thought they were doing an RPG and the other one thought they were doing a fighting game, or maybe they could replace the stoic heavylifting old guy with a slim lolita girl and the game would be the same... Either way, someone there is making a poor job of selling the setting to me.

 

[ninjajoeman]

I hate the idea of all these little parts fitting together, just seems that making a power armor thats two or three (counting the helmet as seperate piece) is more practicle than a suit of armor that reqiures hundreds of small components being assembled by half a dozen robotic arms, and basically cant be removed or equiped in the field. I let it slide for the Space MArines from SC, simply because they only do it once (before meeting a untimely, but predictable, death).

I think it is adjusting so much because its calibrating, also this is a movie the fact that it is doing all that stuff makes it seem that there is more life in the suit. Kinda giving the suit its own techy personallity. for instance if the suit just went on and off it wouldn't make much of an impact, but if the suit did this insanely complicated assembly then you think "whoa,that is pretty weird I wonder how it does that." Hell in the second movie he is basically upgrading his suit while other people are trying to take his suit, its all about the suit.

 

[FuzzyRaccoon]

Honestly, I recognize that Dead Space 2 wasn't scary. But me? I DON'T CARE. I think it's a great game, and while I agree that there's no way it's a horror game, I still found it to be more emotive than the first installment. I think they did a great job on it.

Also, seriously, RE4 is scary? Did I play a different game?

 

[Candescence]

Amazingly, one game DOES do the helmet thing properly - Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey. The Demonica suits, while their helmets look kind of weird, have to be taken off like any other helmet, and it looks large and thick enough to provide practical protection.

 

[cerebus23]

We have already seen the necromorphs we know what they are what they do and how to kill them, if your are a ds fan then you have seen the movies the comics and etc.

There was no mystery left by the time ds2 hit, even if you never played the first game, you probably had heard about it.

DS1 had the advantage of having a heavy dose of unknown going for it. All the monsters each type was new, you never knew what you were going to see.

It is like alien vs aliens, you know what the monster looks like, so there is no shock value in the full reveal. DS2 took the same ques from alien and aliens, and just went the action/gore heavy route.

Most gamers are pretty darn jaded anyway, few of us were scared by doom or doom 3 no matter how many demonic hellspawn burst out of the wall wanting to eat your face, after a bit it was just point and fire until it stops moving.

Tension is a good point going back to the old ship was the most creeppy part of the game just waiting for all hell to break loose, and when it kept no breaking loose the tension just ramped up much more effecting than the more or less constant slaughter fest you go thru past 10 minutes into the game.

I noted the helmet thing my logic part of my brain pretty much pointed out immediately that the helmet was unworkable and nonsensical, especially the security suits with how bulky they were, but dammit they looked cool and the whole fold out thing looked cool, so i personally said f it and let it slide.

DS@ was action focused that is the bottom line, fact the first game was seen as some touchstone of horror does not mean that the second game had to follow that path.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

Sounds like a boring class. "Not a single one" is hyperbole, but a major goal of those classes should be to encourage discussion and promote individuals to think for themselves. In many cases there is a "right" answer that most people agree upon, but if we start there, and there's no discussion of alternative viewpoints, you have a class full of boring people with no ideas of their own, or you're analyzing works that probably don't require analysis.

I'm in complete agreement with you, actually. I can't stand lecturers, or even other classmates, who try to force their interpretation of a work through the idea that what the author 'intended' is the only way you can read or judge a text.

I think you might be misapplying intentional fallacy here, though. If someone says "This is crap because it's absurd" it does matter whether they're reviewing Airplane or The Matrix. If Dead Space *were* a self-aware parody of the sci-fi horror genre, it would be pointless to criticize it for being over the top and absurd. It's only meta-criticism if you arrive at that conclusion through developer interviews or something similar. If you arrive at the "intent" conclusion through analysis *of the work*, it's fair game, and not a meta-criticism. I don't think any of the people you're referring to were getting their data from meta-sources.

Particularly because I think the intent *was* to be serious and genuine, so I doubt any such sources exist.

When I apply the intentional fallacy I mean in the way people leap to the defence of a game by dismissing any criticism that can be generated through comparison to another game. People who say 'It's not trying to be Resident Evil 4' are missing the point: in the minds of enough audience members, the game is similar enough in tone to Resident Evil 4 to warrant comparison. Whatever ambition the developers may have had in mind is not enough to warrant ignoring anyone's opinion about how they reacted to the game.

 

[T. S. Wolf]

Ok, i played through Dead Space 2 two times; not because i really liked it, but because i was trying to find something in the game that i could reflect upon and say "this made the whole experience worth while". No such epiphany occurred to me in either run through. While i can't say the original Dead Space was by any means the best horror game ever invented i still really enjoyed it and actually found the plot, though cut and pace, moderately disturbing. Dead Space 2, as far as i can tell, is a ripoff of its predecessor that got so bent on trying to appease to the juvenile crowd that it comes out looking like something a ten year old could have made.

Now, before Dead Space 2 fans get out their limited addition plasma cutters and start trying to hunt me down, let me say that i still found Dead Space 2 fun. Any game where you can run around with increasingly pimped out weaponry can easily get that point in its favor. Fun, however, is the only thing that Dead Space 2 offers, and that makes it a fail in my book. A game is supposed to be like a good book or movie where you leave the experience with something at the end; whether its a different outlook on a certain concept or with something as simple as the thought "that was really interesting". All i left Dead Space 2 with was a increased tolerance for blood and a new standard of lower tier gaming. Huzzah EA; you have now set the standard for my "crap list" bar.

As for the helmet thing, well, i personally thought it was cool looking; but Isaac did it so many times that it just got irritating.