Death Stranding reviews

CaitSeith

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ObsidianJones said:
That interview text has been altered. In the original one he never said "it flies higher" or such arrogant phrases.

It's another case of angry people looking for a reason to get angry (and they are playing you like a fiddle).

EDIT: What I meant was mistranslated, not altered. The original interview is in italian. Sorry.
 

CaitSeith

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Yoshi178 said:
The text in the video was altered to sound more snobby and arrogant than it actually was in the real interview. Please double check your sources.

EDIT: What I meant was mistranslated, not altered. The original interview is in italian. Sorry.
 

Casual Shinji

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CaitSeith said:
Yoshi178 said:
The text in the video was altered to sound more snobby and arrogant than it actually was in the real interview. Please double check your sources.
I've heard a lot of people say this, but I still haven't heard what he then actually said. Even if it was less snobby it'd still be nonsense.
 
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CaitSeith said:
ObsidianJones said:
That interview text has been altered. In the original one he never said "it flies higher" or such arrogant phrases.

It's another case of angry people looking for a reason to get angry (and they are playing you like a fiddle).

EDIT: What I meant was mistranslated, not altered. The original interview is in italian. Sorry.
I fully concede to the possibility that it was mistranslated.

However "Flies Higher" was never apart of my disdain. It was summing all North American Players as just lovers of FPS, and that's why the reviews are mixed.

If that was mistranslated, fire that translator and I'll be the first to apologize. But you have to understand why it's hard to believe a mistranslation of that magnitude is feasible to me at this point.

Even the amended part still references the preponderance of FPS fans [https://wccftech.com/kojima-death-stranding-had-stronger-criticism-in-the-us-possibly-because-it-flies-above-shooters/].

Sony got in touch with us after checking the original interview audio and clarified that the exact quote by Kojima was '...in America there are a lot of FPS fans, maybe those fans are saying this is like a different game and are not rating it very high'.
Why can people just not like the game because they don't like the game? Why must there be a reason beyond that? That's what gets me.
 

CaitSeith

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ObsidianJones said:
CaitSeith said:
ObsidianJones said:
That interview text has been altered. In the original one he never said "it flies higher" or such arrogant phrases.

It's another case of angry people looking for a reason to get angry (and they are playing you like a fiddle).

EDIT: What I meant was mistranslated, not altered. The original interview is in italian. Sorry.
I fully concede to the possibility that it was mistranslated.

However "Flies Higher" was never apart of my disdain. It was summing all North American Players as just lovers of FPS, and that's why the reviews are mixed.

If that was mistranslated, fire that translator and I'll be the first to apologize. But you have to understand why it's hard to believe a mistranslation of that magnitude is feasible to me at this point.

Even the amended part still references the preponderance of FPS fans [https://wccftech.com/kojima-death-stranding-had-stronger-criticism-in-the-us-possibly-because-it-flies-above-shooters/].

Sony got in touch with us after checking the original interview audio and clarified that the exact quote by Kojima was '...in America there are a lot of FPS fans, maybe those fans are saying this is like a different game and are not rating it very high'.
Why can people just not like the game because they don't like the game? Why must there be a reason beyond that? That's what gets me.
A proposito di Occidente, le prime recensioni sono positive. ? soddisfatto dell'accoglienza di Death Stranding da parte della critica?

Devo dire che il gioco ha ricevuto delle recensioni entusiastiche, soprattutto in Europa e in Giappone. Qua negli Stati Uniti, invece, abbiamo avuto critiche pi? forti. Forse ? un gioco difficile da capire per un certo tipo di critica e di pubblico. In America ci sono molti appassionati di sparatutto in prima persona (fps) e molti di loro sostengono che Death Stranding sia un gioco differente, forse per questo non hanno messo voti molto alti.

Io cerco sempre di creare cose nuove e vanno bene le controversie, le discussione, per? c'? da dire che gli italiani o i francesi hanno una sensibilit? diversa che permette loro di apprezzare questo genere di prodotti molto originali, non sono nei videogiochi ma anche nel cinema.
In other words, he was speculating the difference between European and American critics. If the situation was just "not liking the game because not liking the game" like you said, the reception would had been uniformly mixed all over the globe. It isn't, and the interviewer wanted to know Kojima's opinion about it.

Sure, not all Americans are shooter fans who spend their time in CoD, Overwatch or Fortnite and don't have time to try games that their friends aren't playing; but there are enough there to make American mainstream preferences different to the ones in Italy and France.

Or is any of what I just said false?
 
Sep 24, 2008
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CaitSeith said:
A proposito di Occidente, le prime recensioni sono positive. ? soddisfatto dell'accoglienza di Death Stranding da parte della critica?

Devo dire che il gioco ha ricevuto delle recensioni entusiastiche, soprattutto in Europa e in Giappone. Qua negli Stati Uniti, invece, abbiamo avuto critiche pi? forti. Forse ? un gioco difficile da capire per un certo tipo di critica e di pubblico. In America ci sono molti appassionati di sparatutto in prima persona (fps) e molti di loro sostengono che Death Stranding sia un gioco differente, forse per questo non hanno messo voti molto alti.

Io cerco sempre di creare cose nuove e vanno bene le controversie, le discussione, per? c'? da dire che gli italiani o i francesi hanno una sensibilit? diversa che permette loro di apprezzare questo genere di prodotti molto originali, non sono nei videogiochi ma anche nel cinema.
In other words, he was speculating the difference between European and American critics. If the situation was just "not liking the game because not liking the game" like you said, the reception would had been uniformly mixed all over the globe. It isn't, and the interviewer wanted to know Kojima's opinion about it.

Sure, not all Americans are shooter fans who spend their time in CoD, Overwatch or Fortnite and don't have time to try games that their friends aren't playing; but there are enough there to make American mainstream preferences different to the ones in Italy and France.

Or is any of what I just said false?
Kojima is acting like 83 percent with 85 professional reviews and 6.7 out of 10 from 8630 personal reviews (at the time of typing this) is a questionable review.

Compare that with COD modern warfare (81 percent with 68 professional reviews and 3.2 with 7419 personal reviews), Battlefield V (73 percent with 23 professional reviews and 2.3 with 2057 personal reviews), or Borderlands 3 (81 percent with 50 professional reviews and 5.6 with 2086 personal reviews)

That's actually great.

Death Stranding ranked higher than the big FPSs of the year. Both with professional and personal reviews. Games designed by western developers.

What is the actual conversation he's trying to have? "It should have been higher"? It's already doing great and is sparking conversation like no other game this decade. How is that not enough?
 

Dansen

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ObsidianJones said:
CaitSeith said:
A proposito di Occidente, le prime recensioni sono positive. ? soddisfatto dell'accoglienza di Death Stranding da parte della critica?

Devo dire che il gioco ha ricevuto delle recensioni entusiastiche, soprattutto in Europa e in Giappone. Qua negli Stati Uniti, invece, abbiamo avuto critiche pi? forti. Forse ? un gioco difficile da capire per un certo tipo di critica e di pubblico. In America ci sono molti appassionati di sparatutto in prima persona (fps) e molti di loro sostengono che Death Stranding sia un gioco differente, forse per questo non hanno messo voti molto alti.

Io cerco sempre di creare cose nuove e vanno bene le controversie, le discussione, per? c'? da dire che gli italiani o i francesi hanno una sensibilit? diversa che permette loro di apprezzare questo genere di prodotti molto originali, non sono nei videogiochi ma anche nel cinema.
In other words, he was speculating the difference between European and American critics. If the situation was just "not liking the game because not liking the game" like you said, the reception would had been uniformly mixed all over the globe. It isn't, and the interviewer wanted to know Kojima's opinion about it.

Sure, not all Americans are shooter fans who spend their time in CoD, Overwatch or Fortnite and don't have time to try games that their friends aren't playing; but there are enough there to make American mainstream preferences different to the ones in Italy and France.

Or is any of what I just said false?
Kojima is acting like 83 percent with 85 professional reviews and 6.7 out of 10 from 8630 personal reviews (at the time of typing this) is a questionable review.

Compare that with COD modern warfare (81 percent with 68 professional reviews and 3.2 with 7419 personal reviews), Battlefield V (73 percent with 23 professional reviews and 2.3 with 2057 personal reviews), or Borderlands 3 (81 percent with 50 professional reviews and 5.6 with 2086 personal reviews)

That's actually great.

Death Stranding ranked higher than the big FPSs of the year. Both with professional and personal reviews. Games designed by western developers.

What is the actual conversation he's trying to have? "It should have been higher"? It's already doing great and is sparking conversation like no other game this decade. How is that not enough?
I tend to cut mainstream "auteurs" some slack when it come to interviews. I'm sure anyone in this thread would end up with egg on their face if they were subjected to constant interviews.

I can see where he is coming from in regards to metacritc. Metacritic is a bad site and its bad for critically analyzing games. It boils down the games to an arbitrary number which is used as some arbitrary indicator of quality. All it tells you is if the game had some sort of controversy because brigading has become such a common way to express frustration. I appreciate the research you did but these metrics are almost meaningless. Unless the same exact reviewers and users participated you can't compare the different metacritic performances.

The general audience that Kojima seems to be targeting(for some bizarre reason...pressure from Sony?) aren't going to see the nuanced opinions for and against his game, they will see the user score and base most of their purchasing decision on that.
 
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Dansen said:
I tend to cut mainstream "auteurs" some slack when it come to interviews. I'm sure anyone in this thread would end up with egg on their face if they were subjected to constant interviews.

I can see where he is coming from in regards to metacritc. Metacritic is a bad site and its bad for critically analyzing games. It boils down the games to an arbitrary number which is used as some arbitrary indicator of quality. All it tells you is if the game had some sort of controversy because brigading has become such a common way to express frustration. I appreciate the research you did but these metrics are almost meaningless. Unless the same exact reviewers and users participated you can't compare the different metacritic performances.

The general audience that Kojima seems to be targeting(for some bizarre reason...pressure from Sony?) aren't going to see the nuanced opinions for and against his game, they will see the user score and base most of their purchasing decision on that.
I personally don't use it. My favorite Critic is ACG [https://www.youtube.com/user/AngryCentaurGaming/videos] as his reviews are usually personally in line with my own tastes.

But never the less, the site is a collection of reviews with a semi-questionably moderated user review side. And even with all of that, Death Stranding still managed to do better than most of the AAA lot. I personally count User Reviews for video games lower than most other critical reviews, but in the efforts of fairness I collected that data as well.

My personal views of the sites that Metacritic collected, the User audience on the site, or the very site itself all aside... Death Stranding's reviews are all still positive. All your qualms are probably justified, but it still is just a site linking other people's reviews. And if we're talking about the broad spectrum of feelings for Death Stranding the game, it's just literally a portal to professional critics reviews.

What it is supposed to do is take the average of reviews and puts that number up. That's not arbitrary. That's just math. It would be another thing if they simply made up the scores. Like if Breath of the Wild got 90s and 100s across the board and then Metacritic put up a score of 78. That's arbitrary. But barring some controversy I haven't heard about, they simply don't do that.

But to your argument of if potential consumers will do what you suggested, that's a different topic. And one that maybe does bare weighing out. But that situation is different than just lumping a population to be mainly only interested in first person shooters and using that as an excuse.

The Problem here is that you can not Critique Art Objectively. There are people who look at Mark Rothko's No. 10 [http://cf.c.ooyala.com/RrdmZrdDoNGRNqTQqtsb-1RCikgvOV4k/3Gduepif0T1UGY8H4xMDoxOjA4MTsiGN] or Untitled (Yellow and Blue) [https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-IJ894_SOTHEB_P_20150512224421.jpg] and will have a myriad of feelings. Some will think their 10 year old not only could have done that, but has. Some will see it and be moved for a moment, and be glad for the experience. Some others will feel that these pieces are worth millions of dollars. And those people will have paid $81.9 miillion [https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/culture/la-et-cm-rothko-painting-christies-auction-20150514-story.html] and 46.5 million dollars [http://news.bitofnews.com/rothko-painting-yellow-and-blue-sold-for-46-5-million/amp/] for a grand total of 128.4 million dollars.

No one here is wrong.

Art is what it is to you.

Yes. Not everyone will vibe with what Kojima is putting out. That is the very substance of Art. But to be that guy suggesting "More refined Palate will resonate with it" makes me roll my eyes.

My favorite Group of All Times is "A Tribe Called Quest [https://atribecalledquest.com/home/]". It isn't even a race. Flat out the hands down winner. And I don't like all of their songs. That doesn't make me a poser. That doesn't mean if I didn't love the musical genre of Drum and Bass as much as I do, I would have more appreciation for the Wonderfully Jazzy Blend of Hip-Hop that is the Tribe's sound. It means some songs missed it for me.

And it's unfair and quite absurd to even suggest that my love of Drum and Bass will prevent me from completely accepting every bit of A Tribe Called Quest discography. And that's what I feel Kojima is hinting at here. I can't stress enough that I'm not saying that this is what he outright said. But what the sense of Kojima's overall message (as it reads with the current translations) is thus to me: "If the West wasn't so in love with FPSs, they could possibly embrace this more".

That's a cop out.
 

Silvanus

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Yoshi178 said:
usually the only games that get hype because of publishers are sequels to already established franchise's.
That isn't true at all. From 2019 alone: Outer Worlds, Apex Legends, Control, Anthem, Days Gone, Daemon X Machina... I've heard of all of these initially because of publisher involvement. It'll have resulted in coverage and screen-time, among other things.

Of course, I'm not going to buy them necessarily for that reason, but they're on my radar for that reason. But if I know a particular developer I like is involved-- like, say, Miyazaki with Sekiro-- then that's going to affect my purchase decision with better reason.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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ObsidianJones said:
CaitSeith said:
A proposito di Occidente, le prime recensioni sono positive. ? soddisfatto dell'accoglienza di Death Stranding da parte della critica?

Devo dire che il gioco ha ricevuto delle recensioni entusiastiche, soprattutto in Europa e in Giappone. Qua negli Stati Uniti, invece, abbiamo avuto critiche pi? forti. Forse ? un gioco difficile da capire per un certo tipo di critica e di pubblico. In America ci sono molti appassionati di sparatutto in prima persona (fps) e molti di loro sostengono che Death Stranding sia un gioco differente, forse per questo non hanno messo voti molto alti.

Io cerco sempre di creare cose nuove e vanno bene le controversie, le discussione, per? c'? da dire che gli italiani o i francesi hanno una sensibilit? diversa che permette loro di apprezzare questo genere di prodotti molto originali, non sono nei videogiochi ma anche nel cinema.
In other words, he was speculating the difference between European and American critics. If the situation was just "not liking the game because not liking the game" like you said, the reception would had been uniformly mixed all over the globe. It isn't, and the interviewer wanted to know Kojima's opinion about it.

Sure, not all Americans are shooter fans who spend their time in CoD, Overwatch or Fortnite and don't have time to try games that their friends aren't playing; but there are enough there to make American mainstream preferences different to the ones in Italy and France.

Or is any of what I just said false?
Kojima is acting like 83 percent with 85 professional reviews and 6.7 out of 10 from 8630 personal reviews (at the time of typing this) is a questionable review.

Compare that with COD modern warfare (81 percent with 68 professional reviews and 3.2 with 7419 personal reviews), Battlefield V (73 percent with 23 professional reviews and 2.3 with 2057 personal reviews), or Borderlands 3 (81 percent with 50 professional reviews and 5.6 with 2086 personal reviews)

That's actually great.

Death Stranding ranked higher than the big FPSs of the year. Both with professional and personal reviews. Games designed by western developers.

What is the actual conversation he's trying to have? "It should have been higher"? It's already doing great and is sparking conversation like no other game this decade. How is that not enough?
He was probably contrasting it to the unanimous praise his ?other? [https://i.imgur.com/rA2jgv1.jpg] series has gotten.

Welcome back to the 80?s, Hideo.
 

Yoshi178

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Silvanus said:
Yoshi178 said:
usually the only games that get hype because of publishers are sequels to already established franchise's.
That isn't true at all. From 2019 alone: Outer Worlds, Apex Legends, Control, Anthem, Days Gone, Daemon X Machina... I've heard of all of these initially because of publisher involvement. It'll have resulted in coverage and screen-time, among other things.

Of course, I'm not going to buy them necessarily for that reason, but they're on my radar for that reason. But if I know a particular developer I like is involved-- like, say, Miyazaki with Sekiro-- then that's going to affect my purchase decision with better reason.
i don't know about the other games, but Daemon X Machina was never hyped by the public.

all that games marketing ever did was make people go go "oh it's a new mech type game from Nintendo, that might be cool" it was never hyped up like other stuff they put out like Smash Bros, Luigi's Mansion or Animal Crossing. not even close.
 

Silvanus

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Yoshi178 said:
i don't know about the other games, but Daemon X Machina was never hyped by the public.

all that games marketing ever did was make people go go "oh it's a new mech type game from Nintendo, that might be cool" it was never hyped up like other stuff they put out like Smash Bros, Luigi's Mansion or Animal Crossing. not even close.
Uhrm, I'm not saying it was "hyped" (though I have seen publicity for it). I'm saying that I heard about it because of publisher involvement.

Also, it's third-party, it's not from Nintendo.
 

CaitSeith

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ObsidianJones said:
What is the actual conversation he's trying to have?
"YOU ITALIAN CROWD ARE GREAT!!!"


PS: Are you aware that the metacritic score includes reviews from countries other than America?
 

Yoshi178

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Silvanus said:
not by the public it wasn't.

Obviously any marketing the game has is trying to "hype" itself but that's not what I was talking about at all.
 

Silvanus

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Yoshi178 said:
not by the public it wasn't.

Obviously any marketing the game has is trying to "hype" itself but that's not what I was talking about at all.
Ok. And all those others I listed, which are widely known as a result of their publisher?

...In fact, why is this thing about the public hyping a game relevant at all? My original argument was that we know about most games because of publisher involvement. Whether the public hypes it isn't of much importance to that line of argument.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Yoshi178 said:
Silvanus said:
Yoshi178 said:
No one would have cared about this game at all if it weren't for Kojima's input.
Well, sure, but the only reason we hear about most newly released games is down to the publisher. Hearing about it because of a developer/ creator's input is a lot more sensible than hearing about it because of a publisher.
usually the only games that get hype because of publishers are sequels to already established franchise's.

new IP's just only ever get attention through word of mouth and mainly after the titles released, for example: Untitled Goose game, it got advertised, but no ever gave a shit about it or spoke about until it had basically come out and then spread through word of mouth because "ha ha, mean silly goose is a hilarous meme! lol"

i don't think anybody even knew what the actual genre of Death Stranding was throughout its entire marketing campaign and the only reason its ever got any attention is because "hey it's that new Kojima game that i have no idea what it's about but because Kojima made it it MUST be good"


edit: also this:
I was more concerned about Kojima having this bizarre, acephobic, rape culture-laden rant in the game:

https://twitter.com/They_Goblin/status/1193262755232571392

That's...that's not a good look. Then again there have been warning signs about this guy for years, but people just wrote it off as "He's just eccentric."
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Oh my god, some of you guys are ridiculous. If you analyze anybody like this, you ain't going to like anybody.

1st some Italian article translated at least twice from Japanese to Italian and then to English (assuming no ones knows Italian here). There's several phrases and whatnot that don't properly even translate out of Japanese, let alone over 2 languages. Without looking up the numbers (because I really couldn't care less), I'm pretty sure FPSs are more popular in America than anywhere else.

2nd that entry from Death Stranding (from an in-game character mind you) via the Twitter link said NOTHING about queers yet the 1st post or response or whatever (I don't fucking use Twitter because of dumb shit exactly like this) is... "'queers exist because people are terrified of emotional connections' - Hideo Kojima"

Kojima is totally the worst person ever and hates Americans and queers, especially American queers... [/sarcasm]

This is exactly what MGS2 is literally about...
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Phoenixmgs said:
Oh my god, some of you guys are ridiculous. If you analyze anybody like this, you ain't going to like anybody.

1st some Italian article translated at least twice from Japanese to Italian and then to English (assuming no ones knows Italian here). There's several phrases and whatnot that don't properly even translate out of Japanese, let alone over 2 languages. Without looking up the numbers (because I really couldn't care less), I'm pretty sure FPSs are more popular in America than anywhere else.

2nd that entry from Death Stranding (from an in-game character mind you) via the Twitter link said NOTHING about queers yet the 1st post or response or whatever (I don't fucking use Twitter because of dumb shit exactly like this) is... "'queers exist because people are terrified of emotional connections' - Hideo Kojima"

Kojima is totally the worst person ever and hates Americans and queers, especially American queers... [/sarcasm]

This is exactly what MGS2 is literally about...
Firstly: there's nothing in the game to refute that piece of text. Nothing in the game's themes argues against it nor is there even something as simple as a character saying "This is complete bullshit." If there is no refutation, then that argument is seen as equally valid even though everything known about asexuality debunks junk science like that. It's the same kind of queer-bashing rhetoric that claims "You're not having kids, it's your duty to have kids!" Then there's Poe's Law and other stuff.

Secondly: this is not the first instance of Kojima having troubling depictions of queer people in his games. Vamp: bi character who's also a murderous psychopath that revels in violence and a lot of said violence has a sexualized bent to it. Raikov: flamboyant gay stereotype that was made to bash Raiden (because complained of him being "girly") and whose sole purpose is to be beaten up by Naked Snake. Volgin: bi man who's a sadist who engages in sexualized violence.

Kojima NEVER does this with his protagonists, only his antagonists. That is not a good thing. There have always been warning signs with this guy and they've only gotten harder to ignore.

And of course, there's the whole "associating sexual violence with libido." It's not; sexual assault is not linked to sex, it's linked to power dynamics, we've known that for years.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Aiddon said:
Firstly: there's nothing in the game to refute that piece of text... It's the same kind of queer-bashing rhetoric...
"I must preempt myself by admitting that I do not have any empirical data" - excerpt from entry in question

Again, queers weren't even mentioned in said entry...

Aiddon said:
Secondly: this is not the first instance of Kojima having troubling depictions of queer people in his games... Kojima NEVER does this with his protagonists, only his antagonists.
Dr. Strangelove + Alan Turing praise?!?!...
 
Sep 24, 2008
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Phoenixmgs said:
Oh my god, some of you guys are ridiculous. If you analyze anybody like this, you ain't going to like anybody.

1st some Italian article translated at least twice from Japanese to Italian and then to English (assuming no ones knows Italian here). There's several phrases and whatnot that don't properly even translate out of Japanese, let alone over 2 languages. Without looking up the numbers (because I really couldn't care less), I'm pretty sure FPSs are more popular in America than anywhere else.

2nd that entry from Death Stranding (from an in-game character mind you) via the Twitter link said NOTHING about queers yet the 1st post or response or whatever (I don't fucking use Twitter because of dumb shit exactly like this) is... "'queers exist because people are terrified of emotional connections' - Hideo Kojima"

Kojima is totally the worst person ever and hates Americans and queers, especially American queers... [/sarcasm]

This is exactly what MGS2 is literally about...
*shrugs* That's how people are. That's how you are.

I can guess I'm one of these people you're calling Ridiculous. And I'm fine with that. But comparatively, you've had 3057 chances to get an idea of my personality, my point of view, and how I normally comport myself. And if in truth I'm one of these people you've made a judgement on being ridiculous based on what happened in this thread, it's one expression from literally thousands.

How is that any different than how any of us feel about Kojima? For or against?