Death Stranding reviews

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

That?s the catch-22 of developing a strict narrative-driven story in an open world game. I get people?s complaints, ironically enough like from a Naughty Dog dev [https://www.onlysp.com/red-dead-redemption-2-last-of-us-director-bruce-straley-player-freedom/] of all people who are synonymous with linear narrative driven games, but I get why Rockstar sticks with it. The biggest narrative driven sequences like what?s pictured in that link would?ve lost a ton of impact if the player is off bumblefucking about in the woods for a flank during that Braithwaite manor assault for example. It would?ve been a futile clusterfuck trying to engineer a story when the player is free to make their own story, so to speak.

So the developers have to make a choice regardless of how linear or open the level design is, whether they want to weave a specific yarn or leave it predominately up to the player. Rockstar continues to choose the former, and in the case of RDR2 still manages to save the vast majority of the game?s content for the player to do their own thing in the meantime.

You can do a linear story within an open world game just fine. Every mission can have the same end-state that leads into the next story beat, but the way you get there can be different whether it's just guns blazing or stealth option. RDR1 had a mission where you have to get into a barn to save someone (I think) but the game made me go to a specific ladder, go through a specific window to get into the barn. If want I have to do is so specific, have it be a cutscene of my character getting in the barn, then I can do whatever next. I gave up on the game at Mexico since I heard that was the worst part and nothing up until that point was fun or engaging.

 

[CaitSeith]

snip

So to be clear, you aren't talking about liking the core system; but about the core system enhancing itself and keeping itself focused being good, even if you hate it.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I don't know how long I'm going to keep playing this. I'm a good 5 hours into the game, and it just doesn't feel like there's much to it other than boredom and annoyances. The walking around itself is engaging enough, but all the hassle surrounding it is just aggravating. The BT encounters are annoying as well so far. And God, do the cutscenes put me to sleep with their vague mumbo jumbo jargon. I'm fine with things being mysterious and kept in the dark, but Jesus, there needs to be something to latch onto and the game isn't giving me anything. This game is too in love with its nonsense talk to allow you a proper foothold into its story.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

That?s the catch-22 of developing a strict narrative-driven story in an open world game. I get people?s complaints, ironically enough like from a Naughty Dog dev [https://www.onlysp.com/red-dead-redemption-2-last-of-us-director-bruce-straley-player-freedom/] of all people who are synonymous with linear narrative driven games, but I get why Rockstar sticks with it. The biggest narrative driven sequences like what?s pictured in that link would?ve lost a ton of impact if the player is off bumblefucking about in the woods for a flank during that Braithwaite manor assault for example. It would?ve been a futile clusterfuck trying to engineer a story when the player is free to make their own story, so to speak.

So the developers have to make a choice regardless of how linear or open the level design is, whether they want to weave a specific yarn or leave it predominately up to the player. Rockstar continues to choose the former, and in the case of RDR2 still manages to save the vast majority of the game?s content for the player to do their own thing in the meantime.

Rockstar games are the only open-world games that suffer from this though. There are no missions in The Witcher 3 or Horizon: Zero Dawn that require you to travel to a specific place in order to meet up with someone, only to then travel to another location with that character in tow. Most open-world games cut that fat. You also don't receive a 'mission failed' by accidentally bumping into an NPC. That's the first thing that happened to me after I was out of the intro snow section; I ran my carriage over a dude on horse back and got an instant mission failure because attention from the law wasn't allowed.

Rockstar really doesn't know how to organically merge its open-world and linear story elements so it just completely seperates them. While other open-world games allow you to drop the main story mission at almost any time to go do something else and pick it up again when you wish, Rockstar just slaps you on the wrist and says 'NO, you do this now, and you do it exactly how we want you to.' Not even Naughty Dog games are that linear. I certainly can't remember the last time I saw a 'mission failed' screen in one of their games that wasn't just a 'game over, cuz you're dead'.

Every quest I?ve played in The Witcher 3 (about 60 hours so far) is scripted too. The Bloody Baron for a good example of something that was supposedly a high point (narratively sure, but not by any other measure) jumps around a lot but you?re still ultimately waiting for the drunk dude to follow you down to the target area and there?s no way to avoid it. And there is no shortage of exposition to sit through in most missions while you?re doing nothing other than literally standing there waiting for the next move.

I had more of a problem following missions in Horizon. Sometimes I wouldn?t even know it ended let alone what I did to break it. The nonlinear design [https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/StanislavCostiuc/20190531/343721/Horizon_Zero_Dawn_Design_Analysis.php] is admirable on one hand, but on the other it?s still tied to story-driven gameplay, which in a sense makes it more confusing. Sure you can complete it in a number of ways but to what advantage in terms of the narrative? It still ultimately boils down to a scripted end-game sequence, which I personally couldn?t be bothered to pay much attention to. Maybe it was the subject matter too, but I had a tough time recalling the finer details outside of the main arc, and didn?t connect with any of the characters because there was so little logical flow. It?s like they were trying for a blend of Souls-like and traditional storytelling but each approach was made weaker as a result.

I personally haven?t been bothered much by mission structure in RDR2, because they?re unmistakably deliberate, designed for easy replayability and have fair checkpoints assigned. The only problem I?ve run into was when I wanted to finish looting bodies but had to follow someone to avoid a failure. RDR2 is an easier critical target because the story structure is so rigid vs the rest of the free roam content, but that?s more a testament to how much game there is beyond it than either TW3 or Horizon; budget be damned. I can only clear so many monster nests, bandit camps or holographic puzzles before it starts getting tedious. I haven?t hit that plateau in RDR2 yet after about twice as many hours because I?m still finding or doing something new.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

I've been playing for a few hours now and I'm in the second chapter and if what the game has been so far is anything to go by, this is the real shit. I don't think there's been a game that has captivated me as quickly as Death Stranding in a long time. Not only are the cutscenes impeccably directed and acted, not only are the stark, Scandinavian landscapes breathtakingly beautiful, not only does it have what's probably the most unique approach to a post apocalyptic setting I've ever seen, it manages to present all of these things mostly without having to fall back on overdone mechanical action game clich?s. I haven't fired a single shot or thrown a single punch so far on my way to Port Knot City. It really feels like being on a sort of pilgrimage, there's this almost mythical sense of pathos to it that makes being a courier feel heroic.

No, I'm not sure if the game is gonna manage to keep its gameplay fresh all the way throughout, so far it has been able to present me with interesting challenges and interesting environments and, of course, interesting story developments at a fairly consistent rate but I hope that doesn't mean that all of its setpieces are front loaded and it's gonna devolve MGS V style busywork somewhere along the line. But so far, this thing is fucking brilliant.

 

[stroopwafel]

The more I play it the more the game has me intrigued. I absolutely love the story. I like how you not only need to connect humanity to it's future but it's past as well. In many ways the world of Death Stranding feels like the modern world taken to it's conclusion. People living in self imposed exile that you need to deliver oxytocin to mitigate the stress from lack of interpersonal connection and with people no longer reproducing even humanity's last remnants are still largely rejecting any attempts to reach out. It makes the game's theme of connection heartfelt but also eerily prescient and kind of futile despite the best of intentions. It's easy to preach ''humanity needs to come together'' but that is not realistic and Kojima is aware of this. It's kind of going against the current which makes Death Stranding strangely melancholic as well.

BB's theme is also so beautiful and fits the game perfectly.

 

[BrawlMan]

This guy has the right idea, about certain receptions of the game.

 

[Kwak]

This guy has the right idea, about certain receptions of the game.

Not so much the right idea about having an obnoxious personality. Has a valid point though.

 

[BrawlMan]

This guy has the right idea, about certain receptions of the game.

Not so much the right idea about having an obnoxious personality. Has a valid point though.

This has always been his "gimmick". Silent Rob was one of the ones that was part of the angry review fad back in the early days of YouTube. Even he got tired of that style of reviewing around 2012/13. He mostly does streaming now, and some personal videos. I've had some disagreements with him in the past, but usually his rant videos don't bother me. Aside from one or two back in 2009. I don't even remember them, and the videos are now lost.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Every quest I?ve played in The Witcher 3 (about 60 hours so far) is scripted too. The Bloody Baron for a good example of something that was supposedly a high point (narratively sure, but not by any other measure) jumps around a lot but you?re still ultimately waiting for the drunk dude to follow you down to the target area and there?s no way to avoid it. And there is no shortage of exposition to sit through in most missions while you?re doing nothing other than literally standing there waiting for the next move.

That's one quest where you walk a couple of yards. Most if not all the other quests give you the option to simple warp to the place in question. In RDR2 you are constantly forced to follow an NPC, usually on horseback, to the mission target after already having traveled to the NPC to activate the mission. That's two trips almost everytime that could've easily been reduced to one.

I had more of a problem following missions in Horizon. Sometimes I wouldn?t even know it ended let alone what I did to break it. The nonlinear design [https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/StanislavCostiuc/20190531/343721/Horizon_Zero_Dawn_Design_Analysis.php] is admirable on one hand, but on the other it?s still tied to story-driven gameplay, which in a sense makes it more confusing. Sure you can complete it in a number of ways but to what advantage in terms of the narrative? It still ultimately boils down to a scripted end-game sequence, which I personally couldn?t be bothered to pay much attention to. Maybe it was the subject matter too, but I had a tough time recalling the finer details outside of the main arc, and didn?t connect with any of the characters because there was so little logical flow. It?s like they were trying for a blend of Souls-like and traditional storytelling but each approach was made weaker as a result.

It's not about narrative benefit, it's about the benefit of the open-world pacing. Putting a player in an open-world it stands to reason to not lock them down and punish them should they try to harnass the free-roaming setting during missions. RDR2 does this at nearly every turn; there's all these things to interact with in the gameworld, but if you dare do it during a story mission 'mission failed'.

I personally haven?t been bothered much by mission structure in RDR2, because they?re unmistakably deliberate, designed for easy replayability and have fair checkpoints assigned. The only problem I?ve run into was when I wanted to finish looting bodies but had to follow someone to avoid a failure. RDR2 is an easier critical target because the story structure is so rigid vs the rest of the free roam content, but that?s more a testament to how much game there is beyond it than either TW3 or Horizon; budget be damned. I can only clear so many monster nests, bandit camps or holographic puzzles before it starts getting tedious. I haven?t hit that plateau in RDR2 yet after about twice as many hours because I?m still finding or doing something new.

Those monster nests, bandit camps, what-have-you's are optional and easy to ignore. The incessant horse riding RDR2 isn't. The fact that there's an auto-travel, where you just look at the screen while the horse rides itself, says enough.

Rockstar needs to stop babysitting the player for fear that they're not going to experience the story the way they want them to, or just not make it an open-world.

 

[BrawlMan]

One more from Silent Rob.


Based off his impression, I'll probably get the game for Christmas. He is liking the game well enough so far.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

So to be clear, you aren't talking about liking the core system; but about the core system enhancing itself and keeping itself focused being good, even if you hate it.

That is the main problem with most games these days, they have all these elements that only dilute the core experience. Whether it's the loot system in Witcher 3 that makes no sense or Sekiro having several Souls elements (for no reason other than that's all From knows how to do). The core of Sekiro is akin to Shadow of the Colossus in the sense that the combat system is totally about the 1v1 boss/mini-boss fights whereas Shadow knew that fighting regular mooks would only dilute the experience. I did say literally one sentence later that all the elements should be good like how RPGs usually have below average combat and make me fight enemies for 10s of game hours. If an element is going to be so prevalent, don't make it shit. And if you, as a developer, just can't make a good combat system, make a game without combat.

In essence, what I want to play (or watch/read/listen to/etc) is what Danny O'Dwyer said towards the end of his Death Stranding review [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2zTMzlK1Bs]:

What I like most about [Death Stranding] is that it's not a game that anyone asked for or expected, it's a game made by a team of creative people using their creative freedom to make something totally unique.

My favorite things are all things I didn't know I wanted. I'd rather play something like that that fails than another Ubisoft: The Game or Souls-like or open world collectathon that's really only copying a successful formula. I already played that. That's why I'm playing Disco Elysium right now for example.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

I bought the game last night, played it a bit and then a bit this morning. I made it to the chapter 3. I am liking it. I like the gameplay loop of of planing your trek, picking what to take/leave, and how much you can risk to be compelling. (I bet this is where someone could really ruin things by not pushing themselves. I bet if you did something like only one delivery at a time things would get so dull so fast.) I like the inventory system how and how you can place items in different spots and how items have different carry requirements. (I know there is more to the inventory system then I have seen so far. I wonder how in wide this gets.) I have a thing for inventory based gameplay. Also I like the novelty of the game. I have a thing for games about mundane things in fantastical settings.

Now, it's in my nature to complain, so on with my complains. I don't think the terrain is alien enough. Terrain plays a big role in gameplay, but so far all I have seen is roads hills mountains, forest and a swamp. I haven't seen anything that really pushes the limit. The BT's and the mules, the two most normal game elements, kind of fall flat compared to other elements and are too easily bypassed. Like if a delivery route takes you over a mountain you have to plan for that, You have to pack a ladder, pack a rope, cant take a vehicle. The mountain impacts a lot, but a mule camp if kind of easy to avoid or do with little equipment, so don't impact my plans much.

My last one is the biggest one. I would take off a full point for this, There are not auto logs. The game keeps throwing pages of lore at me, but I don't want to read it. You can't read and walk at the same time. Put the logs on tape so I can listen to them well traveling. It's like the worst way to do this.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Just watched Jim's video on it, and he thinks its boring as fuck. Its an ugly, boring, tedious self-indulgent slog of a game that's every bad idea Kojima ever had(which is a lot) roped into one game. He even said the shoes have a degradation meter.
I'll be skipping this one for sure.

 

[Casual Shinji]

The BT's so far are annoying, though I haven't gotten the piss grenades yet so I don't know what change they will bring. But sneaking around them and holding your breath isn't fun, scary, tense, or anything; it's just a chore. The few times I got caught it pissed me off more than anything. Similar to those first-person indie horror games where you're powerless against some stalker and all you can do is run and hide.

The bike brought a nice change, and the game finally feels like it's allowing me to really play it after three hours of constant interuption by 15 minute long cutscenes. The intro to this game is about as bad as Red Dead 2. The menu screens for missions, items and whatnot are also a bit trash, overloading your eyes with info to the point where I just don't bother much with them and just skip 'm.

The game ironically is most fun when it's throwing the least amount of mechanics at you, when you're just traversing the landscape with whatever packages you have with you. As soon as BT's, MULE's, or the timefall rain shows up any enjoyment sinks away until it finally passes.

The storytelling is pretty lame as well, but what else can you expect from dialoge written by Kojima. His reverence for the mythical image of AMERICA hasn't dulled since he left Metal Gear Solid behind, and it's palpable in almost every scene. Seriously, take a shot everytime you hear someone mention it. Even if the storytelling was adequate, the way he's showing off his starpower with these actors would make the whole thing silly anyway. The opulence of his Kojima Productions logo at the start of the game already made me expect the worst in that regard.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Every quest I?ve played in The Witcher 3 (about 60 hours so far) is scripted too. The Bloody Baron for a good example of something that was supposedly a high point (narratively sure, but not by any other measure) jumps around a lot but you?re still ultimately waiting for the drunk dude to follow you down to the target area and there?s no way to avoid it. And there is no shortage of exposition to sit through in most missions while you?re doing nothing other than literally standing there waiting for the next move.

That's one quest where you walk a couple of yards. Most if not all the other quests give you the option to simple warp to the place in question. In RDR2 you are constantly forced to follow an NPC, usually on horseback, to the mission target after already having traveled to the NPC to activate the mission. That's two trips almost everytime that could've easily been reduced to one.

I had more of a problem following missions in Horizon. Sometimes I wouldn?t even know it ended let alone what I did to break it. The nonlinear design [https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/StanislavCostiuc/20190531/343721/Horizon_Zero_Dawn_Design_Analysis.php] is admirable on one hand, but on the other it?s still tied to story-driven gameplay, which in a sense makes it more confusing. Sure you can complete it in a number of ways but to what advantage in terms of the narrative? It still ultimately boils down to a scripted end-game sequence, which I personally couldn?t be bothered to pay much attention to. Maybe it was the subject matter too, but I had a tough time recalling the finer details outside of the main arc, and didn?t connect with any of the characters because there was so little logical flow. It?s like they were trying for a blend of Souls-like and traditional storytelling but each approach was made weaker as a result.

It's not about narrative benefit, it's about the benefit of the open-world pacing. Putting a player in an open-world it stands to reason to not lock them down and punish them should they try to harnass the free-roaming setting during missions. RDR2 does this at nearly every turn; there's all these things to interact with in the gameworld, but if you dare do it during a story mission 'mission failed'.

I personally haven?t been bothered much by mission structure in RDR2, because they?re unmistakably deliberate, designed for easy replayability and have fair checkpoints assigned. The only problem I?ve run into was when I wanted to finish looting bodies but had to follow someone to avoid a failure. RDR2 is an easier critical target because the story structure is so rigid vs the rest of the free roam content, but that?s more a testament to how much game there is beyond it than either TW3 or Horizon; budget be damned. I can only clear so many monster nests, bandit camps or holographic puzzles before it starts getting tedious. I haven?t hit that plateau in RDR2 yet after about twice as many hours because I?m still finding or doing something new.

Those monster nests, bandit camps, what-have-you's are optional and easy to ignore. The incessant horse riding RDR2 isn't. The fact that there's an auto-travel, where you just look at the screen while the horse rides itself, says enough.

Rockstar needs to stop babysitting the player for fear that they're not going to experience the story the way they want them to, or just not make it an open-world.

Ha-ha, if that?s a ?couple of yards? then I?m Geralt?s doppelganger. I haven?t tried fast traveling when I?m following Yennifer or anyone else at a snail?s pace to x destination either, but meh; I just figured the walking is part of it, just like horse riding is typically a big part of getting around in RDR2.

If it wasn?t in an open world, they?d be throwing away the vast majority of ?game? if that was the case. They?re story ?missions?, so it?s reasonable to expect the player to be on the hook. Of course the idea of needing to travel long distances in an open world game isn?t going to appeal to everyone, but the deliberateness is a big part of what they were going for. It?s supposed to feel vast, and I wonder why people would be expecting the contrary. Maybe RDR3 on PS5 will have insta-fast travel, but for the pace of the game waiting a minute or so to go a distance that would normally take perhaps 10x that long isn?t a big deal to me, because I wouldn?t even start playing a game this big if I was concerned about how long it would take.

Same with Witcher 3 or Horizon. It?s just that personally RDR2 happens to have held my attention quite a bit more throughout without feeling like a chore, even with all the ?forced? travel. Maybe it?s the immersion factor of feeling like being in an outlaw?s shoes boots, or the myriad of different details and things to see and do beyond the story, but I?m willing to deal with an ?on-rails? story if the narrative requires it (which it does). Really, there?s no way of crafting a tightly woven narrative as well as it?s done if the player is making up their own gameplay story to go with it. It would end up being generic as hell at worst, or logically inconsistent at best. It?s like expecting to sight-see and make your own personal course in a racing game. The difference is still being able to explore every nook and cranny of the map when you?re not in an actual race.

To me, experiencing the story the way they intended seems pretty reasonable, since that?s the way I want to experience it if I?m going to get the most out of it. Wonderfully enough, I?m also still free to get the most out of the outstanding open world they?ve created when not on a ?mission?.

 

[CritialGaming]

So I played a little of the game at a friend's house and this is a hard pass for me. I just don't find the Fed Exing thing exciting, and traversal just annoyed me when it didn't bore me.

I'm gonna watch a let's play for the story and call it good.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

I made it to chapter 5 and some of my complaints have been addressed. the terrain gets better and you unlock more travel and carring tools. At this moment I am on a road building kick.

 

[Dalisclock]

So I played a little of the game at a friend's house and this is a hard pass for me. I just don't find the Fed Exing thing exciting, and traversal just annoyed me when it didn't bore me.

I'm gonna watch a let's play for the story and call it good.

Death Stranding?

A catastrophe to surpass the Death Stranding!

BBs, Son!

I'm not super worried about getting spoiled about this because I'm fairly sure it's gonna be the normal Kojima wankfest. I haven't heard any reviews so much as mention the story very much, which implies its nothing special. And I say that as someone who liked the Metal Gear Series.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

So I played a little of the game at a friend's house and this is a hard pass for me. I just don't find the Fed Exing thing exciting, and traversal just annoyed me when it didn't bore me.

I'm gonna watch a let's play for the story and call it good.

Death Stranding?

A catastrophe to surpass the Death Stranding!

BBs, Son!

I'm not super worried about getting spoiled about this because I'm fairly sure it's gonna be the normal Kojima wankfest. I haven't heard any reviews so much as mention the story very much, which implies its nothing special. And I say that as someone who liked the Metal Gear Series.

I just got to the part were this happens. Not at all in the same words, but the same gist is talked about.

I also found conan o'brien. He gave me an otter hat. If anyone wants to see him he is labeled as the cosplayer on the map.