Demonization of Moviebob and other Escapist Staff

[Kuzz]

Let's say you are the manager of a pizza restaurant. Customers are enjoying their pizzas, employees are doing their jobs... All of a sudden one of the employees shouts: "EVERYONE WHO LIKE PIZZA ARE SUBHUMANS!"

As the manager, what would you do? Sure as hell every sane manager in the world would fire that employee. Apparently things work differently in gaming media.

I'm not happy that i was called subhuman by an Escapist employee.

Except, to put it into context, it would more be like if they yelled "Everyone who uses liking pizza as an excuse to victimize and harass others are subhumans" and you going "hey, I like pizza, I take offense to that comment!"

You people don't get it, do you? They were not the ones harassed by gamers, gamers were the ones harassed by them. How can you be so blind? Here, a tiny fraction of harassment gamers have endured so far: http://gamergateharrassment.tumblr.com/

There is no proof of gamers harassing SJW, we gamers do our best to inform everyone nicely and respectfully about our case and we make it clear that we don't harass anyone. We show evidence that we are the ones harassed by SJW people. No one believes us. Yet they tell you that gamers harass them (without any evidence) and you believe them without doubting it for a second. It's like believing that Earth is flat because some journalists said so. You guys are giving me cancer.

By the way, no matter what his excuse is, gamers were called subhumans by an Escapist employee and it won't be forgotten or forgiven anytime soon.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Ruin our hobby.

This is my favourite point. It's like they are forgetting that it's also their hobby. In fact, given the jobs they've taken, it's their life. It boggles my mind how people think that there's some kind of disconnect between game journalists and the games they play. Sure, some games get reviewed because that's simply their jobs, but given the amount of games they play, I would say they probably have a greater appreciation for quality gaming the the average GamerGate supporter.

 

[bossfight1]

What has Bob been saying on Twitter? Has he spoken venomously to some people? If so, I'd like to see if they did anything to earn his scorn before kicking up dust over it.

Has he criticized the whole gaming community for the sins of a few? If so, that's worth a bit of reprimand at best.

Are there links to the tweets that put him in the crosshairs?

This entire thing has been a massive clusterfuck; people exploding in frankly startling ways. Someone wants to make a game where the protagonist isn't basically Nathan Drake? CHAOS. Women working in the industry? MADNESS. Speaking out against those who send death/rape threats to people they don't like? ANARCHY.

JUST WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING. This is either about supposed corruption in gaming journalism, where devs will pay reviewers for good reviews - even though it's illegal, or so I've heard - or it's about a sudden internet bar fight erupting because Guy A grabbed the ass of Woman A, Guy B confronted Guy A for being a pervert, Guy A accusing Guy B of only stepping in to be a knight in shining armor for Woman A, then it's just plain havoc.

Then there are people who are screaming that their games are gonna be completely ruined by the 'Feminist Scourge'... How? By having women who wear sensible clothing, who are deeper than 'Look, I have tits'? Alright, to be fair, a more well-spoken version I've heard is, basically, 'games with characters/themes that are only there in a poor attempt to appeal to wider audiences but who ultimately detract from the experience by making it look a bit pretentious.'

But what's wrong with giving the industry a chance to expand a little bit? Give them a chance to do it right, don't just lock them out because you're afraid they'll get it wrong and completely ruin gaming forever, because gaming's more durable than that. If gaming is suddenly dead to you, it's probably because you don't like where it's going, and your opinion will inevitably differ from someone else's.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Let's say you are the manager of a pizza restaurant. Customers are enjoying their pizzas, employees are doing their jobs... All of a sudden one of the employees shouts: "EVERYONE WHO LIKE PIZZA ARE SUBHUMANS!"

As the manager, what would you do? Sure as hell every sane manager in the world would fire that employee. Apparently things work differently in gaming media.

I'm not happy that i was called subhuman by an Escapist employee.

This would be a good point, but you left out the part where the customers had been verbally abusing some of the line cooks at the pizza place. I don't know about the places you've worked, but most managers do not stand for that shit. They protect their employees because not only is it the right thing to do, they don't want a lawsuit.

HOWEVER, I do agree that Bob and some of the others shouldn't have said the things they said. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." Although, I can imagine how it must feel to have people who you might consider to be your friends verbally abused by hundreds of people so I can obviously I can see why he did it.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Let's say you are the manager of a pizza restaurant. Customers are enjoying their pizzas, employees are doing their jobs... All of a sudden one of the employees shouts: "EVERYONE WHO LIKE PIZZA ARE SUBHUMANS!"

As the manager, what would you do? Sure as hell every sane manager in the world would fire that employee. Apparently things work differently in gaming media.

I'm not happy that i was called subhuman by an Escapist employee.

This would be a good point, but you left out the part where the customers had been verbally abusing some of the line cooks at the pizza place. I don't know about the places you've worked, but most managers do not stand for that shit. They protect their employees because not only is it the right thing to do, they don't want a lawsuit.

HOWEVER, I do agree that Bob and some of the others shouldn't have said the things they said. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." Although, I can imagine how it must feel to have people who you might consider to be your friends verbally abused by hundreds of people so I can obviously I can see why he did it.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.860023-Demonization-of-Moviebob-and-other-Escapist-Staff?
page=6#21381987

My bad. Didn't have time to read the whole thread.

While I agree that what they did was harassment, do you honestly think it was aimed at you? I still call myself a gamer and do not feel as though I have been harassed. The comments are mostly reactionary towards the minority on the GamerGate side who have been spewing bile at them. Basically, it's two minorities who are flinging shit at one another without paying attention to who gets hit by the splatter. Would I prefer if their statements had specifically referred to the assholes in the minority? Yes. Will I lose any sleep over the fact that they didn't? No. I find it hard to believe that a rational human being would level that kind of blanket insult at millions of people and actually believe it.

It doesn't make it okay that they did it, but I don't think they should lose their jobs over it. Apologies would be nice, but honestly, I don't care what they think of me. I know that I am a good person, and I don't need their confirmation of that. I'm not saying that you do, but I do feel that the people who are getting especially upset over this may be a tad insecure.

 

[Cronenberg1]

I find it extremely ironic that gamers are always the first to accuse someone of having a victim complex. If it was a feminist calling for someone to be fired for being misogynistic how do you think the story would go down on the escapist forms?

 

[Kuzz]

Let's say you are the manager of a pizza restaurant. Customers are enjoying their pizzas, employees are doing their jobs... All of a sudden one of the employees shouts: "EVERYONE WHO LIKE PIZZA ARE SUBHUMANS!"

As the manager, what would you do? Sure as hell every sane manager in the world would fire that employee. Apparently things work differently in gaming media.

I'm not happy that i was called subhuman by an Escapist employee.

This would be a good point, but you left out the part where the customers had been verbally abusing some of the line cooks at the pizza place. I don't know about the places you've worked, but most managers do not stand for that shit. They protect their employees because not only is it the right thing to do, they don't want a lawsuit.

HOWEVER, I do agree that Bob and some of the others shouldn't have said the things they said. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." Although, I can imagine how it must feel to have people who you might consider to be your friends verbally abused by hundreds of people so I can obviously I can see why he did it.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.860023-Demonization-of-Moviebob-and-other-Escapist-Staff?
page=6#21381987

My bad. Didn't have time to read the whole thread.

While I agree that what they did was harassment, do you honestly think it was aimed at you? I still call myself a gamer and do not feel as though I have been harassed. The comments are mostly reactionary towards the minority on the GamerGate side who have been spewing bile at them. Basically, it's two minorities who are flinging shit at one another without paying attention to who gets hit by the splatter. Would I prefer if their statements had specifically referred to the assholes in the minority? Yes. Will I lose any sleep over the fact that they didn't? No. I find it hard to believe that a rational human being would level that kind of blanket insult at millions of people and actually believe it.

It doesn't make it okay that they did it, but I don't think they should lose their jobs over it. Apologies would be nice, but honestly, I don't care what they think of me. I know that I am a good person, and I don't need their confirmation of that. I'm not saying that you do, but I do feel that the people who are getting especially upset over this may be a tad insecure.

Well i was called worse many times in my life and just ignored them. I don't get easily offended by insults, they are childish and proves that you don't have an argument. But this time it's different. Gaming media declared war on gamers (or at least at people who support GG), and everyone responsible should be fired. This isn't about insults, this isn't about us and them, this about future of games, gamers, gaming media and gaming industry. If we don't stop these people now, they will be too bold in the future. Gamers and game companies will be too afraid to raise their voice against them. Considering how corrupt they are right now and how they shamelessly push their agenda and how boldly they enforce their views (their views are not the problem, enforcing them is) on gamers and companies who don't agree with them and how they don't hesitate to censor everything, in the future they will be ten fold worse because no one will dare to mess with them. We have to defeat this monster now.

I don't want to argue with you, agree with my views or not, you seem like a decent guy. Thanks for reading.

 

[Kuzz]

I find it extremely ironic that gamers are always the first to accuse someone of having a victim complex. If it was a feminist calling for someone to be fired for being misogynistic how do you think the story would go down on the escapist forms?

Depends if that person is really guilty of misogyny or not. If he/she is guilty, he/she can be fired. Hell if care. If not guilty then i would defend him/her.

See, this is the problem. SJW people have a very strict political stance and it clouds their judgement. We aren't like them, we value justice more than our political views.

 

[Rednog]

I'll say this first, Jim really got the unfair shake of the stick on this. I still support Jim and I really think it's super shitty how people reacted to him.

That said, Movie Bob deserves the flak he gets. Seriously he muddled himself in the controversy and has come out covered in filth like anyone else involved. The thing is that he isn't just another anonymous shlub, to some degree he's an internet celeb (for a lack of a better word). And when your anonymity disappears on the internet don't be surprised when people target you out for any BS you say. A guy like JonTron using the word retard offhandedly and getting a giant shit storm is demonetization. Movie Bob going on a rant fest, that's not demonetization that's people calling you on your BS. He has to own up to what he said, if you go on a rampage and then later say your sorry it really doesn't wipe the slate clean. And if people like myself stop watching his stuff because of what he tweeted then maybe it's something to make note of for future actions?

 

[Arkynomicon]

Bob only has himself to blame for touching on controversial issues and not expecting feedback from the opposition. That's what happens when you get involved in politics.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

I find it extremely ironic that gamers are always the first to accuse someone of having a victim complex. If it was a feminist calling for someone to be fired for being misogynistic how do you think the story would go down on the escapist forms?

I'm pretty sure that if a man who slept with 5 woman to give themselves perfect reviews for a lazy cyoa, then using their connections to mute those who opposed, then doxed themselves and blamed gamers was fired, their really wouldn't be much drama. Or people running to his defence. Especially if they admitted they had sex to get the reviews, and had harrased someone at a wedding (and their "feminist" privilege would be promptly withdrawn).

Apparently the morality is only obvious if its a man, woman obviously can't be held to the same standards that men can.. right?

I have more respect for woman than most SJWs, I can actually see and treat ment and woman as equals. On the internet, neither gender deserves or needs special privelges

You have a point in here, sir, but you're coming at it from a point of ignorance.

Quinn did not receive perfect reviews for sleeping with people. We have no hard evidence of that happening. We have murky timelines and a plethora of connections, which is just enough to cast reasonable doubt on the parties involved.

Gotta keep from bogging down in misinformation after all.

OT:

I don't want bob to be fired for being an asshole on twitter. I am, however, actively avoiding his content...which sucks, since I did enjoy the occasional review and big picture, when he wasn't talking down to me.

I'm also quite proud of the Escapist for addressing concerns in relation to their ethics policy. Damned fine work there.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

I find it extremely ironic that gamers are always the first to accuse someone of having a victim complex. If it was a feminist calling for someone to be fired for being misogynistic how do you think the story would go down on the escapist forms?

Ask Ryan Perez?
He was fired for saying drunken, mean things about Felicia Day on twitter.

Issued a formal, public apology and was STILL fired.
People seem to forget about him in all this.

MovieBob did worse this, didn't really apologize and has suffered no consequences.

 

[faefrost]

I think Jim and Greg have probably taken a bit more flak for any of this than they deserved. Particularly Jim who everyone seemed to think they were entitled to his opinion one way or the other. And for that I am sorry as a Gamer than he had to go through it.

Moviebob behaved like a man child on Twitter and brought pretty much all of it down on his own head. And whenever it died down he would be a Twit yet again. I don't condone death threats, personal threats, doxxing hacking or anything that crosses into real abuse. However getting into a keyboard slap fight with the worlds nerd population because you chose to be a flaming jackass online seems to be something of an expected cause and effect. if you can't tolerate being called a "shitweasel" don't pick up the keyboard.

 

[Lono Shrugged]

I used to be a big fan of his Movie and Big picture stuff. But his hypocrisy and elitism really rubbed me the wrong way. Now I can't really stomach his videos. That's me though and he is entitled to keep on with his job if I hate him or not. And I also agree that people should be able to express their negative views of his opinions and behaviour. Anyone who derides or dehumanises the other side of a discussion can fuck right off, I hate that shit.

Also Jim Sterling can come out as a baby eating Nazi and I would still dig him because of how he frames his opinions. I have a lot of respect for that. Even if I vehemently disagree with Jim. He is a very good guy to have around.

 

[firebobm173]

I used to be a big fan of his Movie and Big picture stuff. But his hypocrisy and elitism really rubbed me the wrong way. Now I can't really stomach his videos. That's me though and he is entitled to keep on with his job if I hate him or not. And I also agree that people should be able to express their negative views of his opinions and behaviour.

Ok could you give me an example of how he's a hypocrite? I know that he rubs people who disagree with him the wrong way but I have yet to see outright hypocrisy on his part.

 

[Lono Shrugged]

I used to be a big fan of his Movie and Big picture stuff. But his hypocrisy and elitism really rubbed me the wrong way. Now I can't really stomach his videos. That's me though and he is entitled to keep on with his job if I hate him or not. And I also agree that people should be able to express their negative views of his opinions and behaviour.

Ok could you give me an example of how he's a hypocrite? I know that he rubs people who disagree with him the wrong way but I have yet to see outright hypocrisy on his part.

It's purely my opinion now. But a simple enough one off the top of my head is in many of his videos he objectifies woman, and then in his Sucker Punch discussion he describes his feminist position. And again, this week he posted a video about a Japanese film about a woman who's main feature is her sexuality and mentions absolutely nothing about how it compares to his so called feminist viewpoint, it's all in good fun now apparently. This is just my opinion, but he really feels like a trend-fucker (a variation of star fucker) His opinion is whatever is the popular belief at the time.

As for his flip flopping on the Man OF Steel review, while not exactly hypocrisy. It just put the bullet in the head for any level of professional credibility. I have to give massive respect to Greg Tito for gamely wearing that Dragon Age 2 review all these years and standing by it. If, in the space of a week your opinion flips 180 on a film and you call yourself a professional film critic. Then I am not ever listening to you again. I knew that film was dogs hit when I saw it and I don't have time to listen to someone alternating between being hyped up and jaded by the movie industry. Stand by your principles man and fuck off with the affected angst.

 

[Namehere]

I used to be a big fan of his Movie and Big picture stuff. But his hypocrisy and elitism really rubbed me the wrong way. Now I can't really stomach his videos. That's me though and he is entitled to keep on with his job if I hate him or not. And I also agree that people should be able to express their negative views of his opinions and behaviour.

Ok could you give me an example of how he's a hypocrite? I know that he rubs people who disagree with him the wrong way but I have yet to see outright hypocrisy on his part.

Are you serious? This would be humerous if I didn't think you actually believed all the few things I've seen you say here.

It's painfully clear that Zoe Quin tried to monetize a brand for feminism. She didn't try to create an understanding of feminism, she didn't try to promote feminism or women in gaming for that matter, she tried to sell a seal - akin to the old gold Nintendo seal - that certify feminist friendly. And if you didn't PAY her, you didn't get it. In fact, media organizations that supported her - more or less blindly no less - managed to all but destroy TFYC program, which has thankfully rebounded. Silverstring media claimed to have DDOSed them. Then of course there are the false allegations against WizChan, the general broad based generalizations being thrown around about numerous groups of people in all of this. All with the notion that: "To not tar them all would let the bad ones hide, and fail to fully support the initiative/agenda." And if you think Movie Bob's Twitter behavior at the start of this was at all acceptable, then you can't have problems with the conduct of those in GamerGate - or you hate the people in GamerGate and assume they hate you.

I'm all for social justice and equity between the sexes. I'm not for extortion and racketeering. I'm not for 'ignorance movements' doing extreme, maybe even long term, damage to the notion of social justice and equality between the sexes - not to mention progressivism - which is exactly what ZQ and Silverstring and supporters have done.

These 'so-called' feminists would have you believe that the inventor of the rape whistle was an apologist and was subtly endorsing rape culture. After all that person went out and did something that people could adopt. Well if he or she could do all that, why didn't he or she end rape entirely? I suppose god hates women too.

Is anyone stopping ZQ from making another game? Is anyone stopping these indi developers from making the sort of games they want? As to Anita, you can tell me this or that game is sexist all day long. I can't do thing one about that, I DON'T MAKE GAMES. Why do I hear about this? Why is she talking to me when she ought to be talking to EA, Activision and the other major gaming studios? I don't make games, and with the way AAA gaming has tried to monetize everything I now barely buy or play them. I'm into some indi games, although with Green Light in it's present state it's fair to say buying an indi game that isn't finished is basically throwing money and a prayer at an idea. So what is the big deal here? What am I doing that's so wrong here? What have we all done that was so wrong here?

If they mean to say that there is no market for the sort of games they want to make, then I can't help them. I'm obviously still not going to buy that game. And frankly, they aren't going to stop the production of Space Engineers or Star Made - my two current interests.

As for Bob, I'll make this as simple as possible, because I figure it airs globally and is about as socially aware as Television gets: "What would Captain Picard say, about Bob's Tweets?" Would he throw in behind him, being big on equal rights as his character suggests? I don't think so. Maybe you should think about that and the tactics being employed here by the 'majority' of people in opposition to GamerGate and their organizations.

 

[Edl01]

I'm totally lost as to what this whole thing means?
Can somebody summarize what happened?

I'd recommend my link to moviebob's intermission article(it's the second link from the top in my list of relevant moviebob commentary in the original post). The article itself has many good links, but is a little old. Only one major development has happened since then. I'll give you a link about it here [http://www.dailydot.com/geek/zoe-quinn-outs-4chan-behind-gamergate/].

Wow, I just read that article and I think my IQ dropped just by looking at it...4Chan isn't some massive evil coporation run by hundreds of evil politians plotting to take down the game industry. The simple idea that an image board, nevermind Bloody 4Chan, could plan the entire Gamer Gate movement is laughable at best and suggests the writer doesn't know what 4Chan actually is at worst. I hear that 4chan also formed ISIS and are the ones actually advising Putin to go to war with Ukraine.

On topic: I don't like MovieBob, like at all, he just says a lot fo things that I disagree with which has lead to me not watching his videos. But it's ridiculous suggesting he be fired simply for giving his(honestly quite uninformed) opinion on the scandal. You can't say MovieBob didn't bring this on himself of course, we had already seen bigger personalities like Totalbiscuit getting invited so this really isn't all that suprising, but I still agree with the majority opinion that he shouldn't lose his job over it.

 

[Cronenberg1]

I find it extremely ironic that gamers are always the first to accuse someone of having a victim complex. If it was a feminist calling for someone to be fired for being misogynistic how do you think the story would go down on the escapist forms?

Ask Ryan Perez?
He was fired for saying drunken, mean things about Felicia Day on twitter.

Issued a formal, public apology and was STILL fired.
People seem to forget about him in all this.

MovieBob did worse this, didn't really apologize and has suffered no consequences.

Right because getting a little out of hand while defending those who are harassed online is the same thing as harassing someone online? There's a difference between strongly disagreeing with a movement and directly insulting a specific person. I'm not saying Ryan should have been fired, but I do think that these are different issues. Also Bob did apologize for some of the more incendiary things he said, he doesn't support "gamer gate" but you can't ask to have him fired for that.

 

[Karadalis]

I find it extremely ironic that gamers are always the first to accuse someone of having a victim complex. If it was a feminist calling for someone to be fired for being misogynistic how do you think the story would go down on the escapist forms?

Ask Ryan Perez?
He was fired for saying drunken, mean things about Felicia Day on twitter.

Issued a formal, public apology and was STILL fired.
People seem to forget about him in all this.

MovieBob did worse this, didn't really apologize and has suffered no consequences.

Right because getting a little out of hand while defending those who are harassed online is the same thing as harassing someone online? There's a difference between strongly disagreeing with a movement and directly insulting a specific person. I'm not saying Ryan should have been fired, but I do think that these are different issues. Also Bob did apologize for some of the more incendiary things he said, he doesn't support "gamer gate" but you can't ask to have him fired for that.

So its okay to behave like a troll if its for a good cause and if you give out half hearted apologies? Right gotcha.

(btw he should not loose his job over this, however i expect someone to reign him in a bit since his statements will and maybe even have allready damaged the reputation of his employers)

I dont agree with people calling for his head, just dont watch his content or click on articles he wrote. If his viewership takes a drop he might realize that he has to reevaluate his methods of getting his message to people. If it doesnt then he obviously has done nothing wrong in the eyes of the majority.

Surprising how simple this all can be right?