Demonization of Moviebob and other Escapist Staff

[Ramzal]

MovieBob claimed that people who have opinions were as bad or worse than ISIS... Either he is making light of what ISIS does or he is really just delusional as to what ISIS really is or does. And honestly that's crossing a giant line. I don't think he CAN be punished for his words but he does represent The Escapist as part of it, so that's just not a good look in general. Jim doesn't really deserve much if any of the negativity he is receiving. Greg... eh. I like a few of his works, but for the most part he comes off a bit to protective of things he probably doesn't fully understand. That being said, I'm sure Greg isn't a bad person (Probably a fun guy to hang around and talk to) but not someone I'd want to her their personal philosophies from.

That being said, all of the above are talents in their trades.

 

[firebobm173]

It's purely my opinion now. But a simple enough one off the top of my head is in many of his videos he objectifies woman, and then in his Sucker Punch discussion he describes his feminist position. And again, this week he posted a video about a Japanese film about a woman who's main feature is her sexuality and mentions absolutely nothing about how it compares to his so called feminist viewpoint, it's all in good fun now apparently. This is just my opinion, but he really feels like a trend-fucker (a variation of star fucker) His opinion is whatever is the popular belief at the time.

As for his flip flopping on the Man OF Steel review, while not exactly hypocrisy. It just put the bullet in the head for any level of professional credibility. I have to give massive respect to Greg Tito for gamely wearing that Dragon Age 2 review all these years and standing by it. If, in the space of a week your opinion flips 180 on a film and you call yourself a professional film critic. Then I am not ever listening to you again. I knew that film was dogs hit when I saw it and I don't have time to listen to someone alternating between being hyped up and jaded by the movie industry. Stand by your principles man and fuck off with the affected angst.

Ok now I am going to point out that moviebob can talk about things without constantly bringing up sexism. I would also like to add that sexiness and appreciation thereof=/=objectification. And I mean come on, do you really think that that movie's main draw wasn't the sheer insanity of it? I'd also like to add that, just as Anita Sarkeesian says in the beginning of every tropes vs women video, that you can enjoy something while admitting that certain elements of it are problematic. And BTW, changing your mind about something does not damage someone's credibility. Nobody's opinions are set in stone, no matter how professional they are. As for standing by his principles, he'd already taken a TON of shit for his feminism and criticism of nerd culture before all this started. If he didn't stand for his principles he would've stopped talking about it long ago, but he really believes in what he's saying.

 

[CaitSeith]

MovieBob claimed that people who have opinions were as bad or worse than ISIS... Either he is making light of what ISIS does or he is really just delusional as to what ISIS really is or does. And honestly that's crossing a giant line. I don't think he CAN be punished for his words but he does represent The Escapist as part of it, so that's just not a good look in general. Jim doesn't really deserve much if any of the negativity he is receiving. Greg... eh. I like a few of his works, but for the most part he comes off a bit to protective of things he probably doesn't fully understand. That being said, I'm sure Greg isn't a bad person (Probably a fun guy to hang around and talk to) but not someone I'd want to her their personal philosophies from.

That being said, all of the above are talents in their trades.

Uh? I thought that was [a href="https://twitter.com/devincf/status/503647651103899648"]Devin Faraci[/a]. Do you have the link to where Bob said that?

 

[Agayek]

Uh? I thought that was Devin Faraci. Do you have the link to where Bob said that?

That was indeed Faraci. Bob just called everyone who disagreed with him subhuman insects and fat, neckbearded virgins.

And then he wrote an article for this very site holding Faraci up as the savior of gaming, well after the whole "worse than ISIS" comment. So yeah, Bob isn't much better.

Personally, I don't think he should lose his job, but he does need to learn how to control himself on Twitter, and his extremely unprofessional behavior should merit professional consequences of some kind. Just as Faraci's, Alexander's, and several other journalists' should. It won't, because apparently gaming media is immune to the basic standards of professionalism every other industry in the universe has to deal with, but it should.

 

[CaitSeith]

Uh? I thought that was Devin Faraci. Do you have the link to where Bob said that?

That was indeed Faraci. Bob just called everyone who disagreed with him subhuman insects and fat, neckbearded virgins.

And then he wrote an article for this very site holding Faraci up as the savior of gaming, well after the whole "worse than ISIS" comment. So yeah, Bob isn't much better.

Personally, I don't think he should lose his job, but he does need to learn how to control himself on Twitter, and his extremely unprofessional behavior should merit professional consequences of some kind. Just as Faraci's, Alexander's, and several other journalists' should. It won't, because apparently gaming media is immune to the basic standards of professionalism every other industry in the universe has to deal with, but it should.

I think they aren't fired because their opinions haven't affected the industry the same way that in others: people aren't going to stop buying games because of the crap they said (specially the gamers).

And I'm not talking about the indie games. I'm talking about the AAA ones, owned by the fat cats (Microsoft, EA, Activision, Sony, etc...) who control the best-sellers, and give the final veredict of how the game has to be (whetever the developper likes it or not). And they aren't moved by MovieBob's, Faraci's, Alexander's, Zoe's, Anita's, Jack Thompson's, or any SJW's words; but by money.

At least that's my theory...

 

[Agayek]

I think they aren't fired because their opinions haven't affected the industry the same way that in others: people aren't going to stop buying games because of the crap they said (specially the gamers).

And I'm not talking about the indie games. I'm talking about the AAA ones, owned by the fat cats (Microsoft, EA, Activision, Sony, etc...) who control the best-sellers, and give the final veredict of how the game has to be (whetever the developper likes it or not). And they aren't moved by MovieBob's, Faraci's, Alexander's, Zoe's, Anita's, Jack Thompson's, or any SJW's words; but by money.

At least that's my theory...

It's certainly possible, but it's definitely affected their employers' bottom line. Just look at the alexa rankings for gamasutra, polygon, kotaku, etc. They all plummeted after the recent kerfluffle (gamasutra's at the lowest point it's been all year), explicitly because of the deplorable and unprofessional behavior of several journalists on Twitter and in the articles they publish. Hell, kotaku and polygon have both lost some pretty goddamn big sponsors over it. You'd have expected the bean counters at those sites to be a little more concerned about their steadily dwindling income than they appear to be.

 

[CaitSeith]

I think they aren't fired because their opinions haven't affected the industry the same way that in others: people aren't going to stop buying games because of the crap they said (specially the gamers).

And I'm not talking about the indie games. I'm talking about the AAA ones, owned by the fat cats (Microsoft, EA, Activision, Sony, etc...) who control the best-sellers, and give the final veredict of how the game has to be (whetever the developper likes it or not). And they aren't moved by MovieBob's, Faraci's, Alexander's, Zoe's, Anita's, Jack Thompson's, or any SJW's words; but by money.

At least that's my theory...

It's certainly possible, but it's definitely affected their employers' bottom line. Just look at the alexa rankings for gamasutra, polygon, kotaku, etc. They all plummeted after the recent kerfluffle (gamasutra's at the lowest point it's been all year), explicitly because of the deplorable and unprofessional behavior of several journalists on Twitter and in the articles they publish. Hell, kotaku and polygon have both lost some pretty goddamn big sponsors over it. You'd have expected the bean counters at those sites to be a little more concerned about their steadily dwindling income than they appear to be.

Wow! It's frightening how closesly the Internet is monitored. *no sarcasm intended*
I think I'll put on my tin foil hat before continuing. *sarcasm intended*

OT. Where can I find information about the lose of Kotaku's and Polygon's sponsors?

 

[Agayek]

OT. Where can I find information about the lose of Kotaku's and Polygon's sponsors?

There were screengrabs of email responses from the sponsors (which basically said "thank you for your concern, be aware that we have indeed removed all ads from that site and won't use it again") floating around on Twitter when it happened. So far, I believe Kotaku's lost 2 sponsors and Polygon 1. I'll see if I can dig up the images.

 

[Adam Lester]

I find it extremely ironic that gamers are always the first to accuse someone of having a victim complex. If it was a feminist calling for someone to be fired for being misogynistic how do you think the story would go down on the escapist forms?

I'm pretty sure that if a man who slept with 5 woman to give themselves perfect reviews for a lazy cyoa, then using their connections to mute those who opposed, then doxed themselves and blamed gamers was fired, their really wouldn't be much drama. Or people running to his defence. Especially if they admitted they had sex to get the reviews, and had harrased someone at a wedding (and their "feminist" privilege would be promptly withdrawn).

Apparently the morality is only obvious if its a man, woman obviously can't be held to the same standards that men can.. right?

I have more respect for woman than most SJWs, I can actually see and treat ment and woman as equals. On the internet, neither gender deserves or needs special privelges

To tell you the truth, the gamergate thing isn't that big a deal, but on the other hand people (men and women alike) have been getting fed up with all the SJW bullshit for quite some time now. Look at what it's done to The Escapist, every third damned thread is bitching about the severe lack of bisexual midgets in wheelchairs in their vidya games.

So when Zoe Quinn who was a lesser known representative of the feminist movement in gaming had her little woops and with Kotaku no less, which is known as a notorious den of pseudo intellectual and social justice bullshit that made it look like Tumblr ate a stack of old "Nintendo Power" magazines and took a dump, folk ripped into it with extreme prejudice for the same reason people flip out whenever Justin Biber does anything...because it's an easy target that we love to hate. It was like someone took all that random derping that Moviebob does, all those "too many white guys at E3" arguments, Feminist Frequency and then rolled them all up in one delicious little package and painted a bulls-eye on it.

I honestly don't think a majority of the gaming community is sexist in any way shape or form. A good chunk of us are just sick of all this crap and would like to just enjoy our video games without the worry of being sexist, homophobic or ablest just because we enjoy playing something. Maybe we'd like to pick up a controller without asking ourselves "Is Legend of Zelda homophobic?" or some other nonsense that should only come up after a fifth of rum with a close friend.

 

[wulf3n]

I find it extremely ironic that gamers are always the first to accuse someone of having a victim complex. If it was a feminist calling for someone to be fired for being misogynistic how do you think the story would go down on the escapist forms?

Ask Ryan Perez?
He was fired for saying drunken, mean things about Felicia Day on twitter.

Issued a formal, public apology and was STILL fired.
People seem to forget about him in all this.

MovieBob did worse this, didn't really apologize and has suffered no consequences.

Don't forget about these guys [http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/21/a-dongle-joke-that-spiraled-way-out-of-control/], hell they didn't even insult anyone.

 

[Fox12]

I like the Escapist Staff, especially Greg Tito. I respect their views, even if I don't agree with them all the time, and I usually support their social justice opinions.

But seriously? Screw Movie Bob. He's a poor reviewer who's admitted his own bias. His reviews are based more on his political agendas then on the actual quality of the film, and they typically very shallow. He's unprofessional to a fault, goes on angry rants, and generally doesn't treat others with respect. His poor attitude and low quality content makes him, frankly, a liability to this website.

 

[carnex]

I think they aren't fired because their opinions haven't affected the industry the same way that in others: people aren't going to stop buying games because of the crap they said (specially the gamers).

Woaaaa, just a second, let me soak that up.

That is one fucked up metrics you are using there. Employing and terminating employment of journalists should never be based on "effect" of their transgression but rather severity of their transgression. I could shame a person into depression and still not really affect anything other than that person. But I should still get my ass not only fired but labeled unemployable in the journalistic capacities.

 

[CaitSeith]

I think they aren't fired because their opinions haven't affected the industry the same way that in others: people aren't going to stop buying games because of the crap they said (specially the gamers).

Woaaaa, just a second, let me soak that up.

That is one fucked up metrics you are using there. Employing and terminating employment of journalists should never be based on "effect" of their transgression but rather severity of their transgression. I could shame a person into depression and still not really affect anything other than that person. But I should still get my ass not only fired but labeled unemployable in the journalistic capacities.

They shouldn't, but aren't they? Ask any journalist outside the gaming industry if the journalism world is filled with corruption and they'll probably answer "yes".

 

[Ramzal]

MovieBob claimed that people who have opinions were as bad or worse than ISIS... Either he is making light of what ISIS does or he is really just delusional as to what ISIS really is or does. And honestly that's crossing a giant line. I don't think he CAN be punished for his words but he does represent The Escapist as part of it, so that's just not a good look in general. Jim doesn't really deserve much if any of the negativity he is receiving. Greg... eh. I like a few of his works, but for the most part he comes off a bit to protective of things he probably doesn't fully understand. That being said, I'm sure Greg isn't a bad person (Probably a fun guy to hang around and talk to) but not someone I'd want to her their personal philosophies from.

That being said, all of the above are talents in their trades.

Uh? I thought that was [a href="https://twitter.com/devincf/status/503647651103899648"]Devin Faraci[/a]. Do you have the link to where Bob said that?

Woops! My bad! Mixed the two up. Been a long day. I was thinking that Faraci called people subhumans and Bob said what--you get what I mean. My bad there. Far cry away from calling people ISIS. Still bad to call people subhuman. Not ISIS bad, but still bad. My bad.

 

[Lono Shrugged]

snip

They are fair points and I am not saying that feminism is the issue with my problem with him. But that said, I don't share you or Bob's opinion about that film. I don't think you can ogle a pin up of a celeb and blow the sexualisation in media trumpet. For the record Anita is not even on my radar and I don't respect her or her personal opinions.

Like I said I had a lot of respect for Bob starting out. But over time I noticed his "Us versus them" attitude. I don't think people fit into categories like he seems to. I take exception to his generalist and elitist attitude using words like "intelligentsia" which is an insult by exclusion. I think you can certainly change your mind on a subject. But not a 180 flip after people post in the comments about how misguided your opinion is. If you look closely, he has a habit of changing opinions to follow the cultural flow. He has done it so often on so many topics that I am very cynical of it at this point.

I am not pushing the semantic points. I am focusing more on general approach and attitude. I work in media and take a huge amount of love and pride in my job. I don't really feel that with Bob. There is never a discussion there. He has a habit of brushing off people who disagree with him and saying that they "don't get it" or are not a part of whatever sub culture is applicable. He is the kind of person who attacks a person or group of people rather than the argument itself. It's a pretty subtle distinction but it bugs the hell out of me. And now with the twitter shitstorm that rained down. I feel that my opinion was unfortunately backed up.

These are all personal nitpicks based off of my own experiences and I am not for a second expecting people to relate or agree. I had a similar upbringing to Bob and if I had not opened up and let go of all that bitterness I had towards my peers I might have ended up like him in many ways. When he did the big picture episode on his daily life. I truly felt pity for the guy. He seems to lead a fairly lonely and closed off existence. I had before seen him as a well adjusted and worldly and talented guy. But when I saw that all this stuff is pretty much what his career and personal growth will probably amount to I kind of stopped seeing him as a peer. Like I said, I work in Movies and so many of Bob's opinions about the business are misguided in my very humble opinion. I am not trying to convince anyone and I don't think he should be fired out of hand because I think that is not the way to handle it. But if he is supposed to represent this site, he needs to toe the party line as it were.

 

[nightmare_gorilla]

I've been a big fan of moviebob until recently. when this whole thing happened. I mean he throws in with devin faraci, and after multiple times condemning people for clouding the issue with harassment and personal insults he goes on to have a good laugh at how all the people who disagree with anita or zoe look like "NERDS!!!!" which is absurd considering what he looks like. not insulting the guy but seriously glass houses shouldn't throw stones and more specifically if you want to claim the moral high ground making fun of the way people look is a real great way to do it huh. I did accept his apology some, but he simply apologized for being rude not for supporting harassment while hiding behind a shield of not talking to the opposing side for their harassing ways. I do honestly think he owes everyone a real apology. not that he should be fired. I started this whole thing saying nobody should be forced out of their job just for having an unpopular opinion. but when someone like devin faraci acts as unprofessionally as he does and shows such utter contempt for a large section of his reader base then well we have the right to take our business elsewhere and if nobody wants to listen to him so he's just shouting his hateful spit at the wall of an empty room then hey that's life.

overall though i have to say escapist and ALL of their staff have done a far better job staying as even handed as possible while still reposting the excrement from that leigh alexander. someone who has self identified as an enemy of "nerds" and "gamers.

 

[Harry Mason]

Honestly, if this GamerGate thing is the full brunt of of butthurt MRAs come to bear, it's pretty pathetic. It reminds me a lot of Occupy Wall Street.

"WHAT DO WE WANT?"

"JUSTICE!!!"

"FOR WHAT SPECIFICALLY?"

*voices shouting hundreds of different answers*

"AND WHAT SHOULD BE DONE?"

*mumbling crowd walks away with hands in pockets*

 

[Zontar]

Honestly, if this GamerGate thing is the full brunt of of butthurt MRAs come to bear, it's pretty pathetic. It reminds me a lot of Occupy Wall Street.

"WHAT DO WE WANT?"

"JUSTICE!!!"

"FOR WHAT SPECIFICALLY?"

*voices shouting hundreds of different answers*

"AND WHAT SHOULD BE DONE?"

*mumbling crowd walks away with hands in pockets*

Everyone who supports GamerGate is an MRA? Well then, I guess that means the pro-corruption side are all radical feminists. At least, that's the only logical conclusion one can come to using that logic.

 

[firebobm173]

Like I said I had a lot of respect for Bob starting out. But over time I noticed his "Us versus them" attitude. I don't think people fit into categories like he seems to. I take exception to his generalist and elitist attitude using words like "intelligentsia" which is an insult by exclusion. I think you can certainly change your mind on a subject. But not a 180 flip after people post in the comments about how misguided your opinion is. If you look closely, he has a habit of changing opinions to follow the cultural flow. He has done it so often on so many topics that I am very cynical of it at this point.

These are all personal nitpicks based off of my own experiences and I am not for a second expecting people to relate or agree. I had a similar upbringing to Bob and if I had not opened up and let go of all that bitterness I had towards my peers I might have ended up like him in many ways. When he did the big picture episode on his daily life. I truly felt pity for the guy. He seems to lead a fairly lonely and closed off existence. I had before seen him as a well adjusted and worldly and talented guy. But when I saw that all this stuff is pretty much what his career and personal growth will probably amount to I kind of stopped seeing him as a peer. Like I said, I work in Movies and so many of Bob's opinions about the business are misguided in my very humble opinion. I am not trying to convince anyone and I don't think he should be fired out of hand because I think that is not the way to handle it. But if he is supposed to represent this site, he needs to toe the party line as it were.

Could you give me a link to the episode of the big picture in question? Or at least the name of the episode? I'd just like to see it for myself. Is it this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/2709-Magneto-Was-Right] episode of the show? If it is I would disagree with you on how he comes across in it. As for hypocrisy and his opinion shifting with what's popular, could you give me an example of that too? I've gone through a lot of his old stuff and he seems consistent.

 

[Harry Mason]

Honestly, if this GamerGate thing is the full brunt of of butthurt MRAs come to bear, it's pretty pathetic. It reminds me a lot of Occupy Wall Street.

"WHAT DO WE WANT?"

"JUSTICE!!!"

"FOR WHAT SPECIFICALLY?"

*voices shouting hundreds of different answers*

"AND WHAT SHOULD BE DONE?"

*mumbling crowd walks away with hands in pockets*

Everyone who supports GamerGate is an MRA? Well then, I guess that means the pro-corruption side are all radical feminists. At least, that's the only logical conclusion one can come to using that logic.

Didn't say that. Never said that.

Not everyone in Occupy Wall Street was a college-drop-out hippie. The actual make-up of a group is one quintillionth as important as who among them is the most vocal.

I love the term radical feminist. Someone who believes women should be treated equally, who also surfs the waves and rides and in a sweet hotrod? Sign me the fuck up!