Developer Blames "American Culture" for Greenlight Ban

[RustlessPotato]

Being from Europe, that automatically means I only see sex everywhere I go and am Terrified of violence, I'd take it of Greenlight because it just looks boring. They just take sex and transform it into something childish. It really looks like a 12 year old made that game.

 

[VampLena]

Being from Europe, that automatically means I only see sex everywhere I go and am Terrified of violence, I'd take it of Greenlight because it just looks boring. They just take sex and transform it into something childish. It really looks like a 12 year old made that game.

Thats how it should be, and people wonder why america is so full of round too tight ignorant people with anger, alcohol and drug problems. Well of course thats the kind of person you'll get if you tell them natural things like nudity and sex is immoral and evil and shove violence down peoples throats and tell them its okay.

Yeah, We have Rated R movies and Rated M video games and it doesnt matter, its lip service, kids play mortal kombat all the time here, porn is the only thing they take seriously enough to enforce being strickly, over 18.


Im not going to say places like Europe and Japan are perfect but generally speaking you'll find alot more mature, well rounded individuals who live peaceful lives without requiring beer and stuff to get through the day.

 

[RaNDM G]

pfft. Heck no. I'm actually okay with reading those books and could care less who is watching. If they ask, I'd let them know but of course won't shove it in their face.

I meant you were Fez, but eh.

Birthplace? I'd say a strong influence, but not birthplace.

Hellz yeah birthplace. Space Invaders, Galaga, Pac-Man, Pole Position, Donkey Kong, all of our earliest memories come from those games. And what did we have? PONG?

Let's not forget, Nintendo and Sega created a whole new industry after Atari and ColecoVision crashed.

And now many specialty stores are there in the U.S. that supply games like those? "If" a store for erotic based games was too appear in the U.S. it would be chewed out just for existing. Porn Shops took years to even be allowed out in the open like they are today.

And there's the medium you're looking for. If the owners of those stores knew there was an audience for these games, they can start carrying them. It's not like a regular customer would start a riot if they saw a sex game for sale.

Now here's the thing. Green Light, the area where fans/members go to choose whether a game should be allowed to exist on Steam by the fans/members kicked a game out of the catalog before anyone BUT the developers actually saw any real "game". Everyone is saying it's a cheap flash game. But no one has actually "played" the game in any form other than the developers. What details were skimped out for the 1 minute video where it was nothing more than a teaser?

They didn't need to play it. The game violated the Terms of Service.

Yes, this commotion did let me know this game was coming into existence. But the fact that this game exists at all is what will get me to buy it. I am personally hoping that the game is like a good steamy romance novel than the stuff that appears in sites like Newgrounds. Nothing against the site, but most erotic flash games are pretty half-assed.

P.S. Most Eroge feature 18-ish year olds, not my thing by far. Now that these women look to be 25+ year olds is a huge sell for me.

Older women, huh?

Lemme guess. You're looking for something like this?

 

[RustlessPotato]

Being from Europe, that automatically means I only see sex everywhere I go and am Terrified of violence, I'd take it of Greenlight because it just looks boring. They just take sex and transform it into something childish. It really looks like a 12 year old made that game.

Thats how it should be, and people wonder why america is so full of round too tight ignorant people with anger, alcohol and drug problems. Well of course thats the kind of person you'll get if you tell them natural things like nudity and sex is immoral and evil and shove violence down peoples throats and tell them its okay.

Yeah, We have Rated R movies and Rated M video games and it doesnt matter, its lip service, kids play mortal kombat all the time here, porn is the only thing they take seriously enough to enforce being strickly, over 18.


Im not going to say places like Europe and Japan are perfect but generally speaking you'll find alot more mature, well rounded individuals who live peaceful lives without requiring beer and stuff to get through the day.

Perhaps. But I really don't mind violence. People should know that games are just games. I even think Violence could be used in a game to show that killing people isn't 'omg that's so badass ! " and might even give a revolting feeling towards it. The M or R rated games here don't really matter (perhaps in a bigger store they do, I don't know).

While people might not be so uptight about nudity (and now that I think of it, violence neither) here in Belgium, people don't want them shoved in their faces everywhere they go and I agree with that. I don't think this game would sell well in Belgium. Not because of the sex, but because the game looks stupid.

And I thought men in Japan where kind of the most sexually frustrated people (correct me if I'm wrong). They might not drink beer to get through the day, but groping in trains is still a fact.

I also think tight ignorant people filled with anger, alcohol and drug problems can be found everywhere

 

[Negatempest]

Spoiler

pfft. Heck no. I'm actually okay with reading those books and could care less who is watching. If they ask, I'd let them know but of course won't shove it in their face.

I meant you were Fez, but eh.

Birthplace? I'd say a strong influence, but not birthplace.

Hellz yeah birthplace. Space Invaders, Galaga, Pac-Man, Pole Position, Donkey Kong, all of our earliest memories come from those games. And what did we have? PONG?

Let's not forget, Nintendo and Sega created a whole new industry after Atari and ColecoVision crashed.

And now many specialty stores are there in the U.S. that supply games like those? "If" a store for erotic based games was too appear in the U.S. it would be chewed out just for existing. Porn Shops took years to even be allowed out in the open like they are today.

And there's the medium you're looking for. If the owners of those stores knew there was an audience for these games, they can start carrying them. It's not like a regular customer would start a riot if they saw a sex game for sale.

Now here's the thing. Green Light, the area where fans/members go to choose whether a game should be allowed to exist on Steam by the fans/members kicked a game out of the catalog before anyone BUT the developers actually saw any real "game". Everyone is saying it's a cheap flash game. But no one has actually "played" the game in any form other than the developers. What details were skimped out for the 1 minute video where it was nothing more than a teaser?

They didn't need to play it. The game violated the Terms of Service.

Yes, this commotion did let me know this game was coming into existence. But the fact that this game exists at all is what will get me to buy it. I am personally hoping that the game is like a good steamy romance novel than the stuff that appears in sites like Newgrounds. Nothing against the site, but most erotic flash games are pretty half-assed.

P.S. Most Eroge feature 18-ish year olds, not my thing by far. Now that these women look to be 25+ year olds is a huge sell for me.

Older women, huh?

Lemme guess. You're looking for something like this?

Really? *Sigh*, okay check out "Get Rich or Die Gaming" and "Let's Get Fiscal". These 2 games are by far a worse half assed made game project than what I saw on that single video of Seduce Me.....and it's still in Project Green Light. Would it be so terrible to make an area in the site that is exclusive to well made mature/erotic content? No, that would be asking too much.
And no, they did not clearly violate the term of service. When Valve has to specify now that such horrendous content like a game's strong point is consensual sex is not acceptable.

 

[VampLena]

Really? *Sigh*, okay check out "Get Rich or Die Gaming" and "Let's Get Fiscal". These 2 games are by far a worse half assed made game project than what I saw on that single video of Seduce Me.....and it's still in Project Green Light. Would it be so terrible to make an area in the site that is exclusive to well made mature/erotic content? No, that would be asking too much.
And no, they did not clearly violate the term of service. When Valve has to specify now that such horrendous content like a game's strong point is consensual sex is not acceptable.

Apparently it is too much to ask, people are so messed up on the whole in the US that natural things like this, they dont want to even know exists, while unnatural things like murder they consume regularly. Even some of these soccer moms would rather see their kids playing some good, ole American fun in mortal Kombat then something like this.

I agree though, compared to some of the other crap on Greenlight that looks worse then Seduce Me, this game gets panned as crappy looking. Its more like people projecting their own shame at their sexuality on this product then its actual quality.

As for Japanese people, they arent repressed, this is the same nation that has vending machines on street corners selling used womens panties Thats encouragement if I'd ever seen it.

 

[RaNDM G]

Really? *Sigh*, okay check out "Get Rich or Die Gaming" and "Let's Get Fiscal". These 2 games are by far a worse half assed made game project than what I saw on that single video of Seduce Me.....and it's still in Project Green Light.

Because they did not violate the Terms of Service. Quality is not the issue here.

Would it be so terrible to make an area in the site that is exclusive to well made mature/erotic content? No, that would be asking too much.

Not a bad idea, but again it's up to the company to decide.

And no, they did not clearly violate the term of service. When Valve has to specify now that such horrendous content like a game's strong point is consensual sex is not acceptable.

The fact that there is consensual sex in this game is not the issue here.

Seduce Me is porn. It is marketed as porn. If Steam does not want to carry porn, or any game genre, for any reason, that is their right.

Apparently it is too much to ask, people are so messed up on the whole in the US that natural things like this, they dont want to even know exists, while unnatural things like murder they consume regularly. Even some of these soccer moms would rather see their kids playing some good, ole American fun in mortal Kombat then something like this.

Why pin this on the U.S.? Sure Steam is an American company, but it serves an international audience. From what I've seen the opinion on this game is split 50-50, and that's taking everyone's opinion into account.

I agree though, compared to some of the other crap on Greenlight that looks worse then Seduce Me, this game gets panned as crappy looking. Its more like people projecting their own shame at their sexuality on this product then its actual quality.

If No Reply really wanted people to give their game a chance, they would have released a demo. So far they haven't, and all we can go on is gameplay footage.

Honestly what they've shown looks pretty boring. It doesn't look bad graphics wise, but the point-and-click/number-based gameplay seems complex and unengaging. The target audience would rather play a simple text-based adventure with an engaging storyline that lasts longer than an hour and a half.

As for Japanese people, they arent repressed, this is the same nation that has vending machines on street corners selling used womens panties Thats encouragement if I'd ever seen it.

Er... No. Selling used undergarments is illegal in Japan. Chances are if you do find a vendor that sells them, this is what you're actually getting.

 

[Negatempest]

Spoiler

Really? *Sigh*, okay check out "Get Rich or Die Gaming" and "Let's Get Fiscal". These 2 games are by far a worse half assed made game project than what I saw on that single video of Seduce Me.....and it's still in Project Green Light.

Because they did not violate the Terms of Service. Quality is not the issue here.

Would it be so terrible to make an area in the site that is exclusive to well made mature/erotic content? No, that would be asking too much.

Not a bad idea, but again it's up to the company to decide.

And no, they did not clearly violate the term of service. When Valve has to specify now that such horrendous content like a game's strong point is consensual sex is not acceptable.

The fact that there is consensual sex in this game is not the issue here.

Seduce Me is porn. It is marketed as porn. If Steam does not want to carry porn, or any game genre, for any reason, that is their right.

Apparently it is too much to ask, people are so messed up on the whole in the US that natural things like this, they dont want to even know exists, while unnatural things like murder they consume regularly. Even some of these soccer moms would rather see their kids playing some good, ole American fun in mortal Kombat then something like this.

Why pin this on the U.S.? Sure Steam is an American company, but it serves an international audience. From what I've seen the opinion on this game is split 50-50, and that's taking everyone's opinion into account.

I agree though, compared to some of the other crap on Greenlight that looks worse then Seduce Me, this game gets panned as crappy looking. Its more like people projecting their own shame at their sexuality on this product then its actual quality.

If No Reply really wanted people to give their game a chance, they would have released a demo. So far they haven't, and all we can go on is gameplay footage.

Honestly what they've shown looks pretty boring. It doesn't look bad graphics wise, but the point-and-click/number-based gameplay seems complex and unengaging. The target audience would rather play a simple text-based adventure with an engaging storyline that lasts longer than an hour and a half.

As for Japanese people, they arent repressed, this is the same nation that has vending machines on street corners selling used womens panties Thats encouragement if I'd ever seen it.

Er... No. Selling used undergarments is illegal in Japan. Chances are if you do find a vendor that sells them, this is what you're actually getting.

Well, the game was taken down before any more information could come out, thus making Project Green Light's purpose...redundant. Now the topic is of, well Hypocrisy. Football, Boxing, Professional Wrestling, Real Wrestling, MMA. Most of these events are extremely popular in US and children are taken to half of these events. You know what the real difference between Sex/Nudity and Violence in the US? "Adults" tend to speak to the kids about how that is all fake and such. When it comes to how to treat women, sex and nudity? Yeah, they get a stupid look in their face cause they don't know how to answer that themselves. Thus the problem. US citizens have no idea how to properly approach sex because it's shunned so much. Easiest solution so far is that sex is evil....cause that works just fine -_-. Thus the hypocrisy of Violence over sex.

 

[VampLena]

Well, the game was taken down before any more information could come out, thus making Project Green Light's purpose...redundant. Now the topic is of, well Hypocrisy. Football, Boxing, Professional Wrestling, Real Wrestling, MMA. Most of these events are extremely popular in US and children are taken to half of these events. You know what the real difference between Sex/Nudity and Violence in the US? "Adults" tend to speak to the kids about how that is all fake and such. When it comes to how to treat women, sex and nudity? Yeah, they get a stupid look in their face cause they don't know how to answer that themselves. Thus the problem. US citizens have no idea how to properly approach sex because it's shunned so much. Easiest solution so far is that sex is evil....cause that works just fine -_-. Thus the hypocrisy of Violence over sex.

Thats a very truthful observation, its really sad when violence is promoted and rationalized, and natural, healthy things like sex is branded evil. The hypocrisy of it, is so sickening.

This game looks nearly as well made as any Visual novel I've ever seen, but then alot of people bash all visual novels too for the stereotype they are porn too.

Im going to definatly buy this game, good or not, just to show support, and that not all Americans are hypocritical fanatics.

 

[RaNDM G]

Well, the game was taken down before any more information could come out, thus making Project Green Light's purpose...redundant. Now the topic is of, well Hypocrisy. Football, Boxing, Professional Wrestling, Real Wrestling, MMA. Most of these events are extremely popular in US and children are taken to half of these events. You know what the real difference between Sex/Nudity and Violence in the US? "Adults" tend to speak to the kids about how that is all fake and such. When it comes to how to treat women, sex and nudity? Yeah, they get a stupid look in their face cause they don't know how to answer that themselves. Thus the problem. US citizens have no idea how to properly approach sex because it's shunned so much. Easiest solution so far is that sex is evil....cause that works just fine -_-. Thus the hypocrisy of Violence over sex.

Wow. That is just... Wow.

I won't bother covering hypocrisy. If I have to type "Terms of Service" one more time my fingers will snap.

Bullfighting, boxing, wrestling, and other arena sports have been ingrained in human society for thousands of years since before the Bronze Age. Of course we think it is fine to bring our children to see these games. Competition is part of our nature.

And as for your belief that Americans don't know how to approach sex, that may have been true up until the 1950s, but the whole counterculture movement of the 1960s is the reason why we are even having these debates today. Today's conservative right, the ones arguing against sexual education, nudity and sex in media, reproductive rights, etc., are from a very vocal minority. Their beliefs stem from mistaken Protestant teachings, and since having a church upbringing is no longer an essential part of being an American citizen, their population is rapidly dwindling with each generation.

As far as I can tell, there will always be arguments against the portrayal of sex in media, even if it's just to play Devil's advocate. But that is not what I came to debate about.

Let's roleplay for a sec. You are a Steam employee, Supreme Ruler of the company in fact. One of your workers tells you someone has submitted a profile of an eroge game on Greenlight. Aside from the whole "no porn" thing, the developers have not broken any rules and have uploaded the game legitimately. The upvotes and downvotes are split almost evenly between the fans.

What do you do?

Do you keep it on the same page as the other games, even though they don't have the same content? If you do customers will complain. Regardless of whether or not they enjoy sex games, they do not want to see that kind of content associated with other titles. They will say it speaks bad of the indie sub-genre and your company will be regarded as careless.

And if the game passes, well, Fox News will latch onto that and beat the good name of Steam into the ground with a crowbar. Then you will have every radical religious group in Washington state waiting outside your door, rifles, torches, and picket signs in hand.

Do you drop it? If you do customers will complain. Regardless of whether or not they enjoy sex games, they will consider you spineless if you don't have the guts to let Steam users decide whether to keep the game.

Do you create a new section just for "Mature 18+" titles? Doing so costs resources. You will have to modify the Greenlight section, possibly putting your service offline for an hour, and you stand to lose whatever profits you would have made in that hour. And if you do, you will still have to deal with fans wondering why you would even bother putting that page up just for one game. Some may even call you out as trying to be "safe".

If you do modify the site, who will use that section you just put up? Will people actually post new games for that section? Or will you be staring at that one game for days, maybe weeks before someone else pitches a title?

Here we are caught in a kind of Xanatos Gambit where there are no good options. You simply have to go with the one that doesn't seem as bad as the others, and in the company's mind, dropping the game was the best solution.

Now, I'm not here to change your opinion of the game. You say you're going to buy it and that's that. The only reason I'm still here is to let the opposition see this from Steam's point of view.

I think we've carried this on long enough so this will be the last post I'll make. Thanks for the debate.