Diablo 3 Review

[The.Bard]

No, I'm just kidding. It's all good guys. But seriously, look at how dumb Diablo 3 is:



Torchlight looks about 100x better. Maybe 20. Diablo 3 is the worst thing ever.

To start off my bit... I've spent the last couple of days playing D3. That picture... is NOT Diablo. Note the triggers buttons in it, and the lack of a skill bar. If I'd venture a guess, I'd guess that's Torchlight, though don't quote me on that. (Image name is tlbig.jpg)

Spoiler

As far as the art style goes. Diablo 3 is definitely dark themed, but the areas that are 'bright' aren't very common. A couple outdoor sections in Act 1 (yes, including a rainbow that's underneath a bridge you cross over after a boss), and parts of act 4, which generally have some pretty blatant corruption and/or battles.

The act 2 desert areas are also pretty bright, yes... like they were D2. The thing to consider is the art, including the color pallet used, fit the game. When you're playing, you generally don't even notice it, that rainbow not withstanding, which comes in a bit of a lull after a mini boss fight. Then there is the issue of the secret area, with it's rainbow, ponies, teddy bears, and flowers. Personally, I find it hilarious, especially the knowledge that it is, in effect essentially a big 'fuck you' to all the people bitching about the art design. It's especially amazing if you see somebody in it... and realize that they look very ridiculously out of place there.

In general, my thought is that most of the people bitching have no interest in the game itself whatsoever. They dislike it on principle, including things like always needing to be on battle.net, the art, whatever. Very few of these people have never actually PLAYED the game itself. I'm not talking about the beta, either... The beta stopped way to early for people to to get a look and feel that goes any deeper then the surface.

This game does on the surface borrow a lot of lessons learned from WoW... but then again... something people are forgetting, is that WoW has borrowed a lot from Diablo as well.

For me, the biggest thing I'd consider to be a legitimate complaint somebody would be making is the prevalence of the early day 'Error 37' occurrences. Those have pretty much passed, and you can get in without frustration now.

People need to realize that yes... this IS a Diablo game. Most of what made the games great in the past has been improved upon. A lot of the frustrating things about it have been done away with. You may not need to devote as much time or energy to try a new build as you used to, that doesn't mean there's not depth there. As somebody who's got a level 59 Monk, that's nearly finished with Act 3 in Hell, that depth IS there.

As far as the single player goes, one of the advantages of how they did things was that somebody who primarily plays by themselves CAN use the AH. Spending time in game trying to find that one item can be really frustrating, as the times that you'll find an item that's any good at all are fairly few, and the times that the item is actually good for the current character is even slimmer. It's not so big an issue in Normal... it becomes more... obnoxious in Nightmare... and it can become rather insane come Hell.. with the champion packs that can have rather brutal sets of mods. Fire Chains/Jailor/Arcane enchanted being an example I can think off the top of my head that is... ouch.

In short, the majority of people bashing the game have preconceptions that are telling them that they should hate it. A lot of people are forgetting that the between D2:LoD and D3... is 12 YEARS. A lot changes in that time. Blizzard took it in the direction they choose to take it, and they did a good job of it (server issues at launch notwithstanding). Another thing that kind of branches off of where Diablo went is Torchlight, which has a different feel to it altogether. That being said... the people bitching about the palette choice in Diablo pointing to Torchlight as the alternative are... well... nuts, frankly. I haven't done anything in the TL2 beta... but I HAVE played the first one. Believe me... Diablo looks photo-realistic when compared to Torchlight. I'll grant... the player models for Diablo wouldn't look horribly out of place compared to WoW... but they'd be probably 3-4 generations later then wow... where the player models of the primary races at launch have basically stayed static in 8 years. It's Blizzards art style, and they DO do Dark well, if more highly polished then most.

I was trying to be funny. I thought the line "Torchlight looks about 100x better. Maybe 20." was a dead giveaway.


Mama always told me not to become a comedian. She was right.


I DO, however, appreciate that you are willing to talk about the art style respectfully. Not having played the game makes it very difficult for me to really see if they made it work despite the WoW-Factor.

In general, my thought is that most of the people bitching have no interest in the game itself whatsoever. They dislike it on principle, including things like always needing to be on battle.net, the art, whatever. Very few of these people have never actually PLAYED the game itself. I'm not talking about the beta, either... The beta stopped way to early for people to to get a look and feel that goes any deeper then the surface.

Ah, see, that's the reason I'm here. I loved Diablo 1. I loved Diablo 2. I don't WANT to hate D3. It just keeps pushing me away. The combination of always-on drm (I play pc a lot when traveling), combined with the off putting art style, are the dealbreakers for me. I am VERY interested in what the game has to offer. I just won't be able to play it until my friend lets me jump on it. He's refusing to open it until the servers have had a few weeks to settle in, so the only option I have to learn about the frakking thing is youtube, reviews, and forums.

My main concern with the aesthetics in D3 (as far as I can tell never having played it) is that the narrative seems to be dark and serious. The cg trailers they released before the game came out are dark and serious. And then you play it and there are... self-illuminating green bookshelves and very toony aesthetics all around. People seem to think I hate colors or stylized art, and that's not it. It's just that the cartoon style doesn't seem to fit the narrative mood Diablo is supposed to evoke. Again, I say this never having played it. It's quite possible they somehow made it all come together once you're clicking away. It just seems like they veered too far towards WoW.

Good to know the gameplay still gives some depth. I guess, for me, having a skill tree that was bound to the character gave the character some personalization. In light of the fact that you can never change your appearance, the skill tree gave some personality. "Oh, that's Quasimoda, my fire sorceress. Or maybe I feel like going with Simba, the ranged barbarian." I liked being able to have 3 or 4 distinct barbarians, each with a special skillset, not one morpher who can become antyhing at anytime. As you mentioned, though, the system does have a lot of upside to it, and I'd like to see it in action... someday.

Thank you again for your insight.

 

[Viruzzo]

]Could you set up that straw-man just a little bit faster? No one's talking about Diablo 3 being an MMO, I very clearly said that the game features design changes intended to make it resemble one. Either you didn't read the post you just quoted, or you did but are choosing to set up a straw-man anyways. Neither of which is really acceptable. If you're going to interject your opinion into someone else's discussion, at least try to read it first.

And where did I say that you meant it being an MMO, as opposed to resembling one? And where is even the line drawn?
It's obvious that D3 is not an MMO (not in the WoW/SWtOR sense, at least); it also seems to me that in no particular way the things you pointed out imply it moving towards WoW. One by one:

- "the streamlining of attributes": not only they did not remove it as much as they moved it to the items, in its current state it is still not particularly similar to WoW, where you only choose secondary stats, and even then usually stack 1-2 of them (3 only for a few specs); the attribute system as it is now in D3 is the same as D2, but instead of getting attribute points you get attribute stats in the items, and they did this not for some obscure "WoW-ification" but to keep in line with the "no need to respec" design concept of D3 (as you don't place fixed points for skills, you don't place them for attributes)

- "the armor/weapon systems": how is that similar to WoW more than to D2? The only thing they DID get from WoW is having a single governing "DPS stat" and designing all abilites by scaling off it (a change that was brought in WoW only in Wrath); it still is different from WoW in that you can improve in many ways, whereas in WoW it can only be improved linearly (by having a better ilvl weapon and better primary stat again by getting better ilvl armor). The level of customization you can get in D3 is astronomically higher than in WoW.

- "the new skill system": and again, how is that similar to WoW? WoW's talent trees are just like D2's (except that talents are 5-point at most); in WoW you have a gazillion abilites and unlimited space for them, and you are supposed to use them all. If anything D3 is similar (as has already been pointed out) to Guild Wars, not WoW.

- "the adjusted quest system": I have no idea what you mean, it's exactly the same as D2 and nothing like WoW.

- "the GIANT exclamation points": a dumb argument, as I said, since it's got nothing to do with MMOs; while it has been introduced in WoW, this concept has currently become a trend that many games adopt because anyone nowadays immediately gets its meaning.

 

[Slycne]

Which is precisely my issue, you don't get a choice. Put a 1000 hours into Diablo 2 or never even touched an aRPG before and you both start on what's essentially easy mode.

Still haven't tried Hardcore Nightmare mode I gather? Do that for a bit, then come back to me and complain about the game being easy. There are difficulity modes, they just aren't unlocked from the start. It was the exact same thing in diablo 2. Tbh I think diablo 3 is a bit more challenging than its predecessor.

Not sure how much more clear I can make it that the issue was never that the game doesn't get harder but that everyone is required to start at easy. I shouldn't have to drop 20 hours of boredom or speed run through in order for the game to become interesting. This is the same problem with the "oh FX13 gets great 20 hours in" argument.

 

[The.Bard]

I'm not particularly fond of people throwing their profession around either, but you're reading too much into it.

Seriously. I really didn't intend to throw around my profession, I was honestly just trying to show that it's something I'm passionately keen on. I know a sound guy who stops watching movies if the sound design isn't up to par... sometimes knowing what you do gives context for why you put so much emphasis on something.

If nothing else, you'd think these people would see that I have Grim Frakking Fandango as my avatar. Grim Frakking Fandango, people!!!!

Thank you for giving me faith that I'm not speaking yiddish without realizing it.

I wasn't trying to take a stab at you. All I meant was that me being in favor of people using their profession as some sort of a crutch for their argument wasn't the reason for me replying to the person. The fact that him taking offense to your statement didn't logically follow was[footnote]Fustercluck of a sentence, I know, but fuck it.[/footnote].

No worries. I appreciate you going to bat in support of literacy. Oh, and one more thing...



Tell those two Diablos, White Tiger Shiro & Denamic... you were right about me. You were... right!

*HURK*

 

[Atros81]

While you're in game, the art style definitely does not seem cartoony. Slick and polished? Yes. Cartoony? No. I think I'm going to go in and try to get a screen shot of some of the spiders you fight in game for comparison purposes.

I can understand the frustration in the always on DRM, so to speak. I personally feel that Blizzard has added enough value to that to make it worthwhile, but I know it won't be enough for everybody. Your friend has a good call as far as letting things settle in before diving in. Most of those issues have calmed down now, as far as the game goes, but they were definitely there.


Some screenshots I took real quick:

Spoiler

[http://i.imgur.com/WYAwO.jpg]

[http://imgur.com/qIv6E]

The glowing spiders are pack of 3 elite mobs, which start getting troublesome in Nightmare, and nasty in Hell... tend to be harder then the bosses even.

 

[Axyun]

Not sure what the noise about the art style is. D3 looks nothing like WoW. It also looks nothing like D2. It is a very different style and anyone that has played the game and isn't blind can tell you that.

I'd say Torchlight 1 and 2 look a lot more like WoW than D3, which is one of the reasons why I couldn't play Torchlight 1 past the first 3 dungeon tile sets.

Obviously the d-bag claiming to be a graphic designer cherry-picked an image of ghosts casting abilities that have color to them just to skew his argument but it doesn't add any validity.

Again, no one is claiming that D3 looks like D2, people are just clarifying that D3 does not look like WoW. Hell, if WoW could ever look like D3 then I might actually go back to playing it after 3 years of inactivity. It would give me something nice to look at.

 

[irishda]

Good, but unoriginal

Gee, sounds like every sequel ever.

 

[Viruzzo]

Once again you're picking and choosing which portions of the quotes you want to read. The original quote is "Diablo 3 contains several deliberate design changes between it and D2, which were make in order to make it better resemble MMOs. WoW specifically.". First you took this to read "Diablo 3 is an MMO because it has MMO-esque features", and then proceeded into a rant no one cares about in which you pointed out that DA:O has "MMO features" and is thus an MMO by my logic. Too bad I never made that argument in the first place.

Wait, what? I'll rephrase it more clearly.
I perfectly got what you meant ("it resembles") and never meant what you read ("it IS"). The same applies for the DA:O argument, which (as clearly as possible) was: "DA:O is another game that contains more MMO elements than even D3, and hardly anyone draws the comparison (or at least not in as a derogatory light). Calling out D3 for being MMO-like seems kind of a cherry pick of what you need to make your argument, while ignoring for example DA:O."

But okay, now you're backpedaling and admitting you were wrong about that, and I accept your apology.

No, you just misread me the first time.

So now you're trying to say that I'm suggesting that Diablo 3 is being built to look like WoW, when the original quote clearly says "in order to make it better resemble MMOs" as a genre, with WoW being the specific example because, in fact, the game does feature a couple of choices that are similar to WoW. However, I was speaking as a whole. Again, you're arguing a point no one has made. I didn't say Diablo 3 is an MMO and I didn't say that Diablo 3 is WoW, either.

I never said you did. WoW is the obvious comparison also because it's made from the same company/teams and is by far and large the most important member of the genre.

Okay, let's start by pointing out that WoW actually does use a system of auto-attributes that is similar to those in D3, even if the exact attributes are not identical and not everything is perfectly matched up to a tee.

Those few points are only those deriving from your race, and are utterly insignificant by any point of view.

Diablo 3 allows a player to reroll their attributes at will in order to respec. This is a feature predominantly used in MMOs to allow their players greater character longevity rather than being forced to spend months pumping up a specific-spec character and then starting over to run the same class in another spec. This is not inherently a bad idea, in fact it's a good one because it means no one gets screwed with "noob" builds and it's less wasted time for everyone. But it does, indeed, come from MMOs in general, as most other RPGs don't provide that sort of attribute flexibility or do so very sparingly (as seen in D2). So to argue that it's not in any way similar to an MMO structure of respec-at-whim is just false.

I suppose you are mixing skills and attributes here, because D3 doesn't allow you to respec attributes (as neither do WoW and D2); the argument here was about the attribute system.

More later on.

 

[The.Bard]

Not sure what the noise about the art style is. D3 looks nothing like WoW. It also looks nothing like D2. It is a very different style and anyone that has played the game and isn't blind can tell you that.

If undermining me & my opinion - instead of actually providing any meaningful evidence of your own - helps you sleep at night, then come scrape the flesh from my body and devour it until my voice is silent.

Obviously the d-bag claiming to be a graphic designer cherry-picked an image of ghosts casting abilities that have color to them just to skew his argument but it doesn't add any validity.

Please step in and correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I'm hearing:

"Sure it looks like WoW when you use a screenshot where it looks like WoW! If you took a screenshot that DIDN'T have the WoW things in it, you would be wrong. You're wrong, anyway, but I have nothing to support my opinion with, so let me just call you a dbag. I win!"

I've asked several times for an intellectual discussion, and in that time I've been called, let's see here... a troll, a dbag, a self-professed authority on graphics, a hater of color, a Modern Warfare lover, an agoraphobe, blind... did I miss any? Careful guys, yo're going to give me an inflated ego. XD

So I guess I'll keep being a blind dbag posing as a designer, and you can keep burying your head in the sand until I go away.

(Don't worry, though, I have fireworks planned for my last hurrah... stay tuned!)

 

[The.Bard]

While you're in game, the art style definitely does not seem cartoony. Slick and polished? Yes. Cartoony? No. I think I'm going to go in and try to get a screen shot of some of the spiders you fight in game for comparison purposes.

I can understand the frustration in the always on DRM, so to speak. I personally feel that Blizzard has added enough value to that to make it worthwhile, but I know it won't be enough for everybody. Your friend has a good call as far as letting things settle in before diving in. Most of those issues have calmed down now, as far as the game goes, but they were definitely there.


Some screenshots I took real quick:

Spoiler

[http://i.imgur.com/WYAwO.jpg]

[http://imgur.com/qIv6E]

The glowing spiders are pack of 3 elite mobs, which start getting troublesome in Nightmare, and nasty in Hell... tend to be harder then the bosses even.

Who are you?!?!

1) You didn't misinterpret what I said.
2) You're adding evidence to support your stance.
3) You didn't insult me. Not even once.

You don't belong here! (I kid, I kid.)

Thank you for those screenshots, though. The lighting is definitely less WoWy there. It still has some of the features that I would categorize as WoW-esque, and since you seem inclined to discuss, I'm going to go into some more detail.

Please, stop me at any point if I'm being patronizing. My intent here is to better explain my opinion, since the term "cartoony" is taking people down all kinds of roads I'm not intending.

Ok, so, look at the rock floor in those screenshots you sent. There are textured cracks and divots painted in all over the place. BUT, I can count on one hand the number of areas where those rocks are actually casting shadows. Which means that entire bridge's surface is mostly smooth. They fake the feeling of rock with 2d painted textures. You can see, though, that the sides of the bridge do feature some actual 3d texturing.

It's the difference between this smooth 3d shape with a 2d rock texture added to it. You can see there is no self-shadowing:



And THIS, where the painted textures are added on actual 3d texturing. Shadows can be cast, and the whole thing feels more lifelike:



I haven't played WoW in a few years, but as of 2008, they used 2d painted textures to simulate a higher polygon count environment all over the place. It helps keep your polygon counts really low, which leads to faster loading and better performance.



That, coupled with the nonsensical lighting styles/colors, are mostly what I mean when I say it looks stylized/unrealistic/toony/etc. There's nothing inherently WRONG with it, but it gives the whole thing a bit of a Looney Tunes vibe for me:



Thus the "cartoony".

 

[The.Bard]

Ok, this is the part where I - the supposedly evil nasty bad guy banging on D3's art style - play my trump card.



I have compiled and cropped several screenshots from WoW & D3. I have laid them out with my uber dbag graphic skills.

I wanted to make a game of figuring out which came from which game, but unfortunately, D3's fixed isometric camera angle makes that too easy. As I've said about 15x previously, not saying you can't like the D3 style, not saying it's empirically bad, yada yada yada... just that it bears more than a passing similarity to WoW.

Aside from cropping, I have done NOTHING to these screens. I barely know how to use photoshop, so I'm not sure I could even if I wanted to.

So my point here is to simply illustrate that when you strip away the easily identifiable pieces... character models and menu overlays, you're left with backgrounds that aren't identical, but have a very strong resemblance. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that they could almost have come from the same game, so similar are the styles. A lot of low res polygons and similarly styled texture maps. In the biz this is referred to as not leaving your comfort zone, stagnating... whatever have you.

[http://i.imgur.com/Eg6CG.jpg] (CLICK FOR BIGGIE)

And with that, my dear people, I have stated my case to the fullest. As always, I'm up for any good discussion, but I've made my peace with this dilemma, and will sadly not be responding to further attacks upon my character in place of actual discussion. Don't cry for me, Blizzard fannnnnnnnnnnnnboiiiiiiiiis! (the truth is I never loved you!)

 

[SilentSh0tz]

Just wait for Torchlight 2.

 

[Atros81]

I see what you're saying about about the textures. They're a lot higher resolution in comparison to where they are in WoW, and the models are more detailed (I'll need to get a close screenshot of my monk as she's sitting right now for comparison's sake, but I only have a few minutes now), but I do agree that it's much same thing pushed up further, as opposed to treading new technological ground, including tessellation and ambient occlusion like you're describing.

You need to remember something about that, though... Diablo is intended to be have a wider appeal. If you DID insert higher end graphical ability (like tesselation), you'd freeze out a very significant portions of the audience. Even as it is, there have been complaints they they made it so that the minimum 'bar' was too high as it is... I know if I hadn't built my new rig a couple months ago, my very capable but aging rig that was several years old (Opteron 186, 8800 GTS 320) would NOT have been able to run the game.

I get what you're saying about cartoony... but, look at the comparisons in cartoon as far as theme. While your WoW screenshot does resemble Looney Tunes, the comparison that comes to mind for D3 shows up more resembling Batman: The Animated Series (albeit a completely different setting). Just because it may be cartoony, does NOT mean can't be dark.

 

[Slycne]

[http://i.imgur.com/Eg6CG.jpg] (CLICK FOR BIGGIE)

Not really jumping into the "D3 is cartoony" minefield, but just for fun -

A. WOW
B. D3
C. WOW
D. WOW
E. D3
F. D3
G. WOW
H. D3
I. D3
J. WOW
K. WOW
L. D3

 

[Genixma]

The enthusiasm in your voice is overwhelming.

 

[Levitas1234]

The skill layout was enough reinvention for me

 

[Chunga the Great]

Well, that settles it. I'll wait for a serious price drop to get this. Although seeing Starcraft 2, that might take a while.

In the meantime (and I'm going to sound unoriginal by saying this), Torchlight 2 looks awesome, and it's only $20.

 

[Rodrigo Girao]

Whut? No, Zelda and Fable are action RPGs; Diablo is a roguelike.