Diablo 3 Review

[The.Bard]

I see what you're saying about about the textures. They're a lot higher resolution in comparison to where they are in WoW, and the models are more detailed (I'll need to get a close screenshot of my monk as she's sitting right now for comparison's sake, but I only have a few minutes now), but I do agree that it's much same thing pushed up further, as opposed to treading new technological ground, including tessellation and ambient occlusion like you're describing.

You need to remember something about that, though... Diablo is intended to be have a wider appeal. If you DID insert higher end graphical ability (like tesselation), you'd freeze out a very significant portions of the audience. Even as it is, there have been complaints they they made it so that the minimum 'bar' was too high as it is... I know if I hadn't built my new rig a couple months ago, my very capable but aging rig that was several years old (Opteron 186, 8800 GTS 320) would NOT have been able to run the game.

I get what you're saying about cartoony... but, look at the comparisons in cartoon as far as theme. While your WoW screenshot does resemble Looney Tunes, the comparison that comes to mind for D3 shows up more resembling Batman: The Animated Series (albeit a completely different setting). Just because it may be cartoony, does NOT mean can't be dark.

Exactly. You have nailed it precisely. It's a more advanced version of the same style. By no means are they identical, but from an artist's standpoint, I get the feeling they put the WoW team on it and didn't push them outside of their comfort zones.

I'd roll with your comparison of WoW = Looney Tunes, D3 = Batman the Animated series. Since you've been such a friendly fellow, I'll even take this a step further. In one of the moments where I was banging my head against a wall earlier, I said one of my concerns with D3 (as always, from the standpoint of one who hasn't played it!) is that the Cinematics and marketing seem to be pushing for a gritty, epic, Rated R movie feel. Kinda like this:

[http://i.imgur.com/hEiRl.png]

... and then you have the gameplay, which doesn't seem to fit into that same mold at all...

[http://i.imgur.com/vbOyj.jpg]

I know, I know, for ages we've dealt with situations where the cinematics are all cool and realistic, and then we have an in-game graphics style that can't match up. But the last few years, it seems like cutscenes and gameplay have been careening towards each other and it's been harder and harder to tell the two apart. Heck, most games I play use the in-game engine to do the cutscenes, so the whole thing is seamless.

I know Blizzard has always had a thing for putting high quality, super realistic cg cutscenes next to gameplay that doesn't jive, but since gaming has mostly been moving away from that, I have trouble wrapping my head around how the two can even support each other in the same room, let alone side-by-side. Does it actually mesh and come together when you're playing the game?

To me it would be like watching a tv show like this:



It's funny you mention cutting off portions of the audience. I remember when Diablo 2 came out, a lot of people were 'giving it hell' because Blizzard opted to use 2d sprites in place of 3d, since not a lot of people had 3d graphics cards. 12 years later, it's the same cycle all over again!

I'm just curious - not bashing the game - what about it makes a pc older than a few months back be unable to run it? Do they have like 200 bajillion individual light sources going on at once or something? It's a 4 player cap per game, right? I'm sure I'll get into hot water for this one, but at first glance it doesn't seem like something my 2 year old laptop shouldn't be able to handle.

 

[The.Bard]

[http://i.imgur.com/Eg6CG.jpg] (CLICK FOR BIGGIE)

Not really jumping into the "D3 is cartoony" minefield, but just for fun -

A. WOW
B. D3
C. WOW
D. WOW
E. D3
F. D3
G. WOW
H. D3
I. D3
J. WOW
K. WOW
L. D3

You... you foiled my plan! And right in the middle of my monologuing!

I currrrrrrrrrrrse you, Sly... Sli... Slice Knee? Slick Knee? Sligh-kin?

However you pronounce it, I curse you to the farthest reaches of the most colorfully lit circles of Hell!

 

[maswell]

I read quite a few negative reviews in here. Then I realized that everyone else was off playing diablo 3 and having a great time

Seriously, this is a contender for my favorite game. Loving it to death so far.

 

[Boris Goodenough]

At the end of the day, it's all well and good for Blizzard to say, "Hey, rainbow colors and toony graphics are easy to make, so we will do it!", as it's their IP. But the people behind D2 are all gone, and this WoW-style artwork is just further proof of it.

SPOILERS!!!!

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BgOeK72jSs

Is this what you are refering to`?

 

[Axyun]

Not sure what the noise about the art style is. D3 looks nothing like WoW. It also looks nothing like D2. It is a very different style and anyone that has played the game and isn't blind can tell you that.

If undermining me & my opinion - instead of actually providing any meaningful evidence of your own - helps you sleep at night, then come scrape the flesh from my body and devour it until my voice is silent.

Obviously the d-bag claiming to be a graphic designer cherry-picked an image of ghosts casting abilities that have color to them just to skew his argument but it doesn't add any validity.

Please step in and correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I'm hearing:

"Sure it looks like WoW when you use a screenshot where it looks like WoW! If you took a screenshot that DIDN'T have the WoW things in it, you would be wrong. You're wrong, anyway, but I have nothing to support my opinion with, so let me just call you a dbag. I win!"

I've asked several times for an intellectual discussion, and in that time I've been called, let's see here... a troll, a dbag, a self-professed authority on graphics, a hater of color, a Modern Warfare lover, an agoraphobe, blind... did I miss any? Careful guys, yo're going to give me an inflated ego. XD

So I guess I'll keep being a blind dbag posing as a designer, and you can keep burying your head in the sand until I go away.

(Don't worry, though, I have fireworks planned for my last hurrah... stay tuned!)

Diablo 3 screenshots aren't hard to find. And keep putting words in my mouth if it helps you sleep at night.

On a slightly different note, there's no mistake that either the art team or art direction of D3 is drastically different than D2s. Blizzard had a 1 hour Diablo 3 panel in one of their past blizz-cons explaining that the company as a whole prefers stylized graphics over realistic as they tend to age better and provide more creative freedom. This is a change that obviously occured after D2's development. It might have been caused by the disbanding of Blizzard North or as a precursor to their first 3D game, WarCraft 3. Whatever the reason, they set the expectation that D3 was going to be stylized.

Despite the stylized graphics, I found the game to be plenty gritty. Places like the festering woods, the halls of agony and the dry lands from act 2 (I forget the name) were suitable dark, desaturated and had complex and detailed textures.

I do agree that there is a stylistic disconnect between the game and the cinematics. Giving the CG that painterly look of the game could have helped a bit. However, while playing the game and as the cutscenes kicked in, I never felt it to be jarring. But I can't say I wasn't mentally prepared for it since, as a D2 player, I was expecting every act to conclude with a sweet Blizzard-quality CG sequence. Don't know how this was like for new players that actually played the game.

We can nit-pick about this crap all day but it doesn't matter. The Escapist community seems to be very anti-Diablo 3 and seems to secretly wish the game would fail due to art, DRM, RMAH or removal of skill-trees and attribute points. All pointless as the game was just announced to be the fastest selling PC game of all time so, whatever they did for whatever reason has proven to be generally an improvement on their past formula. Perfect? No, but better all-around.

And before you chime in with more cute jabs and pictures to make you feel superior, yes I am using sales figures to feel validated and feel good about myself. Tonight I will dine merrily and slaughter scores of demons.

 

[vengerofthelight]

Help a newb out. Is the buzz about this game mostly because of nostalgia and the long wait?

Speaking as someone who regards 'hack, slash, loot' as the worst part of every RPG.

Yes.

Also, if you do like "hack, slash, loot," this game is awesome. You do not, so I would consider looking elsewhere. My personal favorites include Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magic Obscura and pretty much any Bioware Computer RPG.

@ Art Debate: Are we debating who said what, or are we debating whether or not D3's art style is very similar to WoW's? 'Cause I'm not a visual artist or anything similar, but I am a "veteran" of over 15 years of Diablo, and I can vouch for the fact that, while the art from the first game was old, the parts that were cartoonish were so because of technological constraints; apropos, in D1 concrete was grey, and in D3 concrete is... purple?

Update: I have purchased D3. I have played through Normal with a melee Wizard. I LOVE THIS GAME.

Seriously, even the crafting doesn't bother me. It's so stupidly simple that I'm actually using it (some readers may recall that I'm not a big fan of crafting, and didn't do so in D2). The boss fight at the end was actually engaging and complex (comparitively), and that feeling of "this is way too easy" died around the end of Act 2. Act 3 was BLAZINGLY FUN.

This game is so much fun that I had my girlfriend try it. 4 hours later, I had to remind her that she had other obligations to her mother that evening. THE NEXT DAY she purchased a laptop and another copy of the game solely for the purpose of playing D3 with me (obviously it does more than that, but the purchased was guided by, "what exceeds the recommended requirements for this game). She's never even seen a Diablo game before, and this is her 1st Action RPG).

I don't know what else to say. It's just fun. The only gripe I have is the visuals, and, frankly, it's just not enough of a problem for me to stop playing. Matter of fact, I'm going to go back right now. Leoric awaits.

 

[vengerofthelight]

Whut? No, Zelda and Fable are action RPGs; Diablo is a roguelike.

You're old.

>.>

<.<

 

[Silva]

Always online protection, at least if it has no off line mode that allows most or all of the features to be playable, is a deal breaker for me every time. It will continue to be.

I will never purchase a game that uses this policy. I don't care that it's not a problem to me personally while my internet is up. This is a problem that is larger than one person, and needs to be addressed with more importance for that reason.

Whether it gets a 4 out of 5 or a 1, I do not care. Furthermore, I suggest that anyone who wants the industry to move away from this selfish, money-grubbing, ineffective, paranoid, product devaluing anti-piracy tactic not buy this game. Or any other game that has this feature.

This game could have had an amazing single player campaign, with no lag, no disconnecting, and no nonsense interruptions to what would have been a good experience. Instead, it's leashed to city slicker, internet-dependent, space age, ahead of time thinking. When almost everyone has reliable internet, and not just in the West, these games should consider making this their policy. But not a day before then, and that's a long time away yet.

As it is, Blizzard is going to lose a lot of customers from this policy. And I say: good. Let it be a lesson to their investors, and to those who try to molly coddle them into a false sense of security with this pathetic attempt at DRM. Inconvenience everyone and fail to protect yourselves, and yes, you will lose profits.

I look forward to the day when we don't have to make an issue with a game company that I have previously respected, because this policy will be a thing of the past.

 

[The.Bard]

Spoiler

Not sure what the noise about the art style is. D3 looks nothing like WoW. It also looks nothing like D2. It is a very different style and anyone that has played the game and isn't blind can tell you that.

If undermining me & my opinion - instead of actually providing any meaningful evidence of your own - helps you sleep at night, then come scrape the flesh from my body and devour it until my voice is silent.

Obviously the d-bag claiming to be a graphic designer cherry-picked an image of ghosts casting abilities that have color to them just to skew his argument but it doesn't add any validity.

Please step in and correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I'm hearing:

"Sure it looks like WoW when you use a screenshot where it looks like WoW! If you took a screenshot that DIDN'T have the WoW things in it, you would be wrong. You're wrong, anyway, but I have nothing to support my opinion with, so let me just call you a dbag. I win!"

I've asked several times for an intellectual discussion, and in that time I've been called, let's see here... a troll, a dbag, a self-professed authority on graphics, a hater of color, a Modern Warfare lover, an agoraphobe, blind... did I miss any? Careful guys, yo're going to give me an inflated ego. XD

So I guess I'll keep being a blind dbag posing as a designer, and you can keep burying your head in the sand until I go away.

(Don't worry, though, I have fireworks planned for my last hurrah... stay tuned!)

Diablo 3 screenshots aren't hard to find. And keep putting words in my mouth if it helps you sleep at night.

On a slightly different note, there's no mistake that either the art team or art direction of D3 is drastically different than D2s. Blizzard had a 1 hour Diablo 3 panel in one of their past blizz-cons explaining that the company as a whole prefers stylized graphics over realistic as they tend to age better and provide more creative freedom. This is a change that obviously occured after D2's development. It might have been caused by the disbanding of Blizzard North or as a precursor to their first 3D game, WarCraft 3. Whatever the reason, they set the expectation that D3 was going to be stylized.

Despite the stylized graphics, I found the game to be plenty gritty. Places like the festering woods, the halls of agony and the dry lands from act 2 (I forget the name) were suitable dark, desaturated and had complex and detailed textures.

I do agree that there is a stylistic disconnect between the game and the cinematics. Giving the CG that painterly look of the game could have helped a bit. However, while playing the game and as the cutscenes kicked in, I never felt it to be jarring. But I can't say I wasn't mentally prepared for it since, as a D2 player, I was expecting every act to conclude with a sweet Blizzard-quality CG sequence. Don't know how this was like for new players that actually played the game.

We can nit-pick about this crap all day but it doesn't matter. The Escapist community seems to be very anti-Diablo 3 and seems to secretly wish the game would fail due to art, DRM, RMAH or removal of skill-trees and attribute points. All pointless as the game was just announced to be the fastest selling PC game of all time so, whatever they did for whatever reason has proven to be generally an improvement on their past formula. Perfect? No, but better all-around.

And before you chime in with more cute jabs and pictures to make you feel superior, yes I am using sales figures to feel validated and feel good about myself. Tonight I will dine merrily and slaughter scores of demons.

I want to give you props right now. Serious, legitimate props. Your original reply to me was dismissive, and now look at you... supporting your claims and having a legitimate discussion with me! Huzzah! I appreciate you being civil in your reply, even when you threw in a few witty barbs. (love the "before you chime in with more cute jabs and pictures" line. I seriously snorted tea through my nose!)


I agree we could go back and forth in circles, so now that I've said my view and you've said yours, I'd like to pull it back and look at...

the bigger picture



For a while, I will openly admit it felt to me like a lot of people on the site were out to get Bioware. Now it seems to be Blizzard's turn in the sun.

I've amended my view, though. I think people just comment on the things they care about, and if there's one connection I can draw between Diablo 3 & Mass Effect 3, it's that a portion of the audience - right or wrong - feels like the game series they loved left them behind. In some cases that creates a bitter feeling. Which leads to "GRARRRRRRRRRGHHH!!!" posts.

I didn't feel that way in the case of Mass Effect 3, ending aside, but I keenly feel it with Diablo. Every design decision I've read about has been something pushing me away. And it sucks, because I love the world they created. I want to keep loving it.

It's a love/hate relationship that is created. And for a lot of people, it means you can't just walk away. You're drawn to info on the game. If I just hated D3, I wouldn't be posting in these forums. I don't give a rat's patookas for GTA anymore, so when a thread pops up, I don't even read it. But I read the D3 threads. Because I care without loving it, and I detest it without hating it.

Talk about tormented...


One thing we CAN agree on is that you have every right to dine merrily and slaughter scores of demons! Let nobody take that away... not even me and my cute jabs and pictures! XD

 

[vengerofthelight]

Mmm. I love Baldur's Gate ...

However, I'm pretty sure games like that are why Bioware has to make crap like TOR these days.

What do you mean -- Baldur's did extremely well. And the remakes are looking really good so far. They won't blow minds with their graphics but, the story and gameplay (more important) will be awesome.

Besides, without all the strobing, flashing, exploding, every-single-motion-needs-a-corresponding-lightning-storm-animation-to-go-with-it eyesore approach to graphics that blizzard takes, it will be pleasant to immerse oneself in. That's beamdog, not bioware doing the remade editions though.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Baldur's." If you're talking about the old games (Baldur's Gate, TotSC, BG II, Throne of Bhall), then I agree; awesomesauce. Remakes? What, now?

Also, it occurs to me that I may have been less than clear: good games that take absurd piles of money and time to make and rely entirely on up-front sales are generally not as profitable as a straight MMO that you can charge a subscription fee for and generate content for while bringing in cashflow. Hopefully, Diablo will change that.

If you meant to say "The Old Republic," I personally found the game lacking. Of course, MMO-style gameplay really isn't my thing.

Also, about art: The spider screenshots above give me pause. Why is the ground bright orange? Why is the webbing green? Why do the spider sacks have luminescence of any kind? Wouldn't the spiders, biologically speaking, want their egg sacks hidden, and their webbing as well? I still hold that concrete should be grey, dirt brown, and bioluminescence in general should be limited to things like cave moss. Just personal aesthetics, I suppose.

 

[The Forlorn]

Yes I'm talking about all those old Baldurs Gate games. I think I see what you mean now by saying those games are why bioware turned to making games like The Old Republic -- because mmos bring in steady streams of cash. But I still say those older games sold REALLY well and mmos from here on out are all free-to-play anyway, only charging for microtransactions because people are stick of paying $120+ a year to grind out filler to get to the occasional adventure.

Remakes? What, now?

SOMEONE hasn't been reading the Escapist

Yes, beamdog is remaking ALL the baldurs gate games. Once those sell and they have operating capital, they said they are moving to Baldurs III.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116330-The-Baldurs-Gate-Countdown-Begins
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116361-Beamdog-Boss-Reveals-More-About-Baldurs-Gate-Enhanced-Edition
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/117202-Mass-Effect-Composer-Joins-Baldurs-Gate

 

[btd101]

Diablo 3 cant even hold a candle to Diablo 2 in any way. You cant truly customize any character so you end up with nothing more than a boring cookie cutter build, D3 is plagued with error messages, its buggy as shit, (blue) magic weapons are better than Legendaries and (yellow) rare items are close to useless 3/4 of the time. Almost all the loot is so horrible its pitiful even. Act bosses are way easier than elite mobs, almost everything is going to be Real Money Auction House driven so if you want gear that will sustain you while going through the difficulty levels than you better get used to spending most of your time in the AH which by the way cant stay up for more than 2 hours at a clip and is not In-Game. Blizzard keeps nerfing the hell out of everything, players are already grumbling about hacking, its a ghost town because theres no more lobby like in D2, you cant create your own game and are forced to play with whoever and I hope you enjoy dieing , repairing constantly for shitloads of gold and getting 2 shotted. D3 has as far as I have witness ruined the Diablo franchise forever. There nothing to hope for with this game but frustration, boredom, and dungeon crawling for loot that is all garbage. Oh, and to all you farmers out there Blizzard has made it near impossible to farm anything so say goodbye to that but have no fear everything you need will be in the AH, lol.

Rest In Peace D3

 

[Danceofmasks]

I read quite a few negative reviews in here. Then I realized that everyone else was off playing diablo 3 and having a great time

Seriously, this is a contender for my favorite game. Loving it to death so far.

Eh, the game plays quite well, but the connection issues are really annoying.
I'm Australian, and my latency never gets below 220, and during certain times of the day it hovers around 400, making my hardcore character unplayable.

Yes, sure, I'm ok with occasionally dying due to lag while farming inferno act 2 with my easy mode characters, but the game fails when the barrier to endgame is a cable on the ocean floor.

I have yet to make it to hell difficulty on hardcore, and that's downright insulting.

 

[beefpelican]

The game is definitely good, but sadly lacks anything else than attack, kill, and loot. Not a bad thing to say in the least mind you, but I just wish there was just something more.

Don't know if its different for other difficulties, but there is literally no reason to pick up non blue items as each of the normal things only sell for 2-5 gold that I have noticed. Everything else you can find/craft if your blacksmith is leveled high enough.

I kinda found this a bit frustrating. In one way you don't have to worry about going back to town to sell as much excess, but in the same manner, the white items boil down to meaningless screen clutter that you have to go back and pick through if you end up pulling a few consecutive groups.

I know what you mean. I had to pick up white things at the very beginning of the game, as my wizard had forgotten to pack anything but under drawers and a small stick, but after the third quest I really only picked them up by accident.

I think the biggest improvement over Diablo II is the ability to change skills easily. I now spend much less time stressing over where to spend my ability point, and a whole lot more time killing demons. I really like the ability to try everything out until I find a set that works. Personally, I find that only creating one character of each class is a good thing. Replays of the same character with slightly different skills are boring!

 

[vengerofthelight]

Yes I'm talking about all those old Baldurs Gate games. I think I see what you mean now by saying those games are why bioware turned to making games like The Old Republic -- because mmos bring in steady streams of cash. But I still say those older games sold REALLY well and mmos from here on out are all free-to-play anyway, only charging for microtransactions because people are stick of paying $120+ a year to grind out filler to get to the occasional adventure.

Remakes? What, now?

SOMEONE hasn't been reading the Escapist

Yes, beamdog is remaking ALL the baldurs gate games. Once those sell and they have operating capital, they said they are moving to Baldurs III.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116330-The-Baldurs-Gate-Countdown-Begins
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116361-Beamdog-Boss-Reveals-More-About-Baldurs-Gate-Enhanced-Edition
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/117202-Mass-Effect-Composer-Joins-Baldurs-Gate

...

*jaw drops*

*has fanboy panic attack*

omgthankyouthankyouthankyouforlettingmeknow

 

[vengerofthelight]

The game is definitely good, but sadly lacks anything else than attack, kill, and loot. Not a bad thing to say in the least mind you, but I just wish there was just something more.

Don't know if its different for other difficulties, but there is literally no reason to pick up non blue items as each of the normal things only sell for 2-5 gold that I have noticed. Everything else you can find/craft if your blacksmith is leveled high enough.

I kinda found this a bit frustrating. In one way you don't have to worry about going back to town to sell as much excess, but in the same manner, the white items boil down to meaningless screen clutter that you have to go back and pick through if you end up pulling a few consecutive groups.

I know what you mean. I had to pick up white things at the very beginning of the game, as my wizard had forgotten to pack anything but under drawers and a small stick, but after the third quest I really only picked them up by accident.

I think the biggest improvement over Diablo II is the ability to change skills easily. I now spend much less time stressing over where to spend my ability point, and a whole lot more time killing demons. I really like the ability to try everything out until I find a set that works. Personally, I find that only creating one character of each class is a good thing. Replays of the same character with slightly different skills are boring!

After my first character's first 10 minutes, I decided I'm never picking up a white item ever again, and I still have more gold than I need.

Also, I second the whole, "don't play the same class twice." Honestly, most people are going to find the build that suits their playstyle with one run-through, and with the ability to switch out skills willy-nilly I can experiment when I want to.

 

[btd101]

I'm sorry but Diablo 3 is an embarrassment and I'm shocked Blizzard/Activision had the audacity to charge $60.00 dollars for this joke. Yesterday they released a patch and the patch either couldn't be downloaded properly or didn't work outright, then all the servers crashed...AGAIN. Error 37 and error 3006 were a plague. The afore mentioned problems have been unending and things don't look any better than they did on release day. The game has to be put on the back burner for a while because what the public got was a $60.00 beta. D3 could be so much better in so many ways but Blizzard doesn't care about the quality of their products and they certainly don't care about their paying clients. Blizzard/Activision took what should have been a "hack and slash" game and turned it into a "kite and die" game...D3 is an utter disgrace to the Diablo franchise. Blizzard also manipulates loot drops to benefit the AH/RMAH which 9 times out of 10 is down because of all the bugs. Droves of D2 veterans want to put their heads through a wall at what they are experiencing especially because they have waited the longest for D3 and all they got for their loyalty was a cheap stripped down Diablo/World of Warcraft hybrid...shame on you Blizzard. I would recommend no one buy D3 because it was strictly designed to be a Pay2Win game revolving around the RMAH(Real Money Auction House) which is a shameless act of greed on Blizzard's part. If players want the Diablo experience then buy Diablo 2 for $9.99 rather than a broken beta with the name Diablo on it for $60.00. Don't worry 21st century gamers your eyes will adjust to the old school D2 graphics and its way more fun than the joke called Diablo 3. Sorry if I offended anyone but its the truth...unfortunately

 

[Talvrae]

Yes I'm talking about all those old Baldurs Gate games. I think I see what you mean now by saying those games are why bioware turned to making games like The Old Republic -- because mmos bring in steady streams of cash. But I still say those older games sold REALLY well and mmos from here on out are all free-to-play anyway, only charging for microtransactions because people are stick of paying $120+ a year to grind out filler to get to the occasional adventure.

Remakes? What, now?

SOMEONE hasn't been reading the Escapist

Yes, beamdog is remaking ALL the baldurs gate games. Once those sell and they have operating capital, they said they are moving to Baldurs III.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116330-The-Baldurs-Gate-Countdown-Begins
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116361-Beamdog-Boss-Reveals-More-About-Baldurs-Gate-Enhanced-Edition
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/117202-Mass-Effect-Composer-Joins-Baldurs-Gate

I seriously can,t immagine a baldur's gate 3 in anyway possible... 1, 2 and Throne of Bhaal all carry the same character, but with the ending of ToB i see no way to continue this