Did Mass Effect Steal It's Story Outright?!

[Tallim]

This thread seems to have become about general originality rather than the instances being discussed.

Now if I laughably assume that all people commenting have read the novels then they are wilfully missing the point.

 

[Raesvelg]

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: There are a number of commonly used concepts in science fiction. Explanations to Fermi's Paradox being one of them. Saberhagen's Berserker series is another classic "rogue machines wiping out all life", Pohl's Heechee series with aliens of near-godlike power who wipe out potential competition, etc etc. Read Pellegrino & Zebrowski's "Killing Star" for a good summation of the fundamental concept behind the idea.

So yes, Mass Effect is a blatant conglomeration of a variety of different science fiction themes. Which doesn't make it a bad game, it just makes it a very unoriginal concept.

On a largely unrelated note, the interesting thing to me about people who compare Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" with Steakley's "Armor", is that the books actually have very little in common. People in powered armor fighting bugs forms the backdrop, but that's really about it; the books have very different stories to tell.

 

[Ian Caronia]

You know, it's pretty funny that people are quick to accuse Avatar of ripping off Dances with Wolves and Mass Effect of ripping off some sci-fi novel, yet very few people ever point out that A New Hope's plot is lifted from every boy-coming-of-age fairy tale ever written, or that The Empire Strikes Back is basically Hamlet with X-Wings. Hell, nobody ever cried about how Kathryn Bigelow and James Cameron's criminally underrated Strange Days heavily borrows from William Gibson's Fragments of a Hologram Rose.

This new focus on "originality" in storytelling is testament to one thing and one thing only, namely the ignorance of the people having those debates - more precisely, that they know nothing about literature.

THERE ARE NO ORIGINAL STORIES. Never have been. Every narration is eo ipso a re-telling. Michel de Montaigne figured that out more than 400 years ago. Henrik Ibsen's The Wild Goose is considered to be the pinnacle of modern European drama, and nobody gives a fuck about the fact that it's basically Oedipus Rex set in bourgeois Norway. Hell, every story of war and invasion ever told is somehow influenced by the Iliad, just like every tale of adventure is always going to be rooted in the Odyssey; the thing is that while we may think of the Greeks as the originators of our tales, they probably stole their stories from the Egyptians or somebody else.

So please, stop discussing the merits of a story based on the least important aspect of any narration. If you really believe that any work of fiction can be "original", all that means is that you haven't read much in your life.

YES THERE ARE ORIGINAL STORIES. If you put your mind to work you can come up with a unique plot. Many things about it may be similar to older stories of the same genre, but it's still unique. Go ahead and look at the premise to Revelation Space and tell me that's not Mass Effect in a nutshell.

-Young man becomes unlikely hero is a genre. Everybody loves to say "nothing's original because this has a hero in it, and this has a villain in it". It's a kind of story, mate! Why are JRPGs mostly young men/women adventuring into a unique world on a quest for truth? It's a type of story! Why are shooters usually gruff men on a quest for vengeance with guns blazing? It's a kind of story!

You might as well say no one is unique because everyone needs to breathe.

 

[Ian Caronia]

I always thought Mass Effect got its inspiration from Carl Sagan's Contact, both the book and the movie. In it, humans find the remains of a very high-tech civilization and schematics for a device that could let us visit other parts of the galaxy, that looks like this. [http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3720/6055174527440474jpg0.jpg] Note the spinning circles, similar to the ones on a mass relay. When it was activated, it produced the exact same type of long blue lens flare effect we see throughout Mass Effect 1 and 2.

In the movie, that device connected to others that eventually led the character through several wormholes and into a part of the universe where the galaxy was neatly visible (like the Reaper's POV from ME2's ending). I'm pretty sure this is where they got their "relay" idea from.
In the end it looks like Mass Effect is a jumble of ideas from other books and movies. Much like Star Wars, if i think about it.

The premise is far too similar for it to be a "coincidence". Also, not to sound like a game promo, but the guys at Alpha Protocol said they were inspired by every spy fiction they'd seen. Bioware's guys said their story was unique. See the difference?

-Nice point you brought up, though. It might be why no one can ultimately prove Bioware fully ripped-off Alastair Reynolds (Revelation Space author).

 

[Thamux]

I just lost alot of respect for Bioware

 

[Ian Caronia]

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: There are a number of commonly used concepts in science fiction. Explanations to Fermi's Paradox being one of them. Saberhagen's Berserker series is another classic "rogue machines wiping out all life", Pohl's Heechee series with aliens of near-godlike power who wipe out potential competition, etc etc. Read Pellegrino & Zebrowski's "Killing Star" for a good summation of the fundamental concept behind the idea.

So yes, Mass Effect is a blatant conglomeration of a variety of different science fiction themes. Which doesn't make it a bad game, it just makes it a very unoriginal concept.

On a largely unrelated note, the interesting thing to me about people who compare Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" with Steakley's "Armor", is that the books actually have very little in common. People in powered armor fighting bugs forms the backdrop, but that's really about it; the books have very different stories to tell.

That's partially my point. It's true that pure originality may be all but dead, but for someone to say their work is in fact original when it clearly isn't pisses me off. It further irritates the shit out of me when said someone doesn't come out and specifically say "Such and Such inspired me". That's when homage turns into plagiarism.

-I never said Mass Effect is a bad game for its writers' actions during its development. That's like blaming the mentally disabled boy for his blood-related parents having sex.

 

[Seventh Actuality]

A lot of stories can seem similar if you look at them from a certain angle, but even with the parallels between ME and this book, in practice they could be (and probably are) very different.

All this "it's all the same story" stuff is horseshit, though. Just waving a hand and saying "it's all Hero with a thousand faces" is easy, but if you bother to look plenty of fiction just...isn't. Which leaves the Chris Paolinis of the world with no excuse. You can be original, plenty of books, films and video games are.

 

[Uber Waddles]

People need to learn the difference between recycled plot points, which are common, and blatant plagarism; which takes a scenario, changes the names, and resells it as their own.

Did Mass Effect Plagarize? Yes, they did. Pisses me off they will never get sued for it either; BioWare has a really bad habit of "borrowing ideas" from multiple sources; and throwing them together into one game. Problem is, no one calls em out on it.

I could name about 7 Novels that Dragon Age blatently steals from. Problem is; no one pays enough attention, or cares. Going against BioWare in court would cost more money then they would win. Hence why I boycott the series.

 

[Ian Caronia]

Oh boy... In my youth I've read through a ton of no-name sci-fi writers who are since than had gone into the obscurity. I have ran into the idea of "an entire planet is an alien device" at least a dozen of times. The number of times I've came across some alien species that routinely wiped out life from known galaxy is at least twice that.

I am not trying to "defend" Mass Effect, mind you.
*SNIP*

There are no original stories anymore.
*SNIP*

Never the less, thank you for informing us about this book. I might look it up, although I doubt it judging by the names they used. I simply don't like the way they sound, which will make the book hard to read for me.

Well, first off thanks for being civil about making your point. it's very appreciated. Next I really just want to add that though (as I already said time and time again) pure originality might be a thing of the past, originality can still come from a good writer's imagination. It will have similarities to older literature, sure, but it won't have the SAME content the other stories have (space-ships, magic, and other expected things from each genre withstanding).
-Lastly, I understand your point, but the fact is this book and the game's release was only seven years apart, and both of them have the exact same premise. Exact same. Back in the day people would instantly call those "B rated rip-offs". Now, so long as there's a budget and two highly likable characters in said rip-off, no one cares.

--On another note, I agree that the title seems pretty stupid (Revelation Space? That's the best he could come up with?), but the book itself isn't half bad. Confusing at first, and the science talk gets away from you from time-to-time (such is the case with the "hard science fiction" genre), but a good read none the less.

 

[Ian Caronia]

*SNIPPED BUT READ*
Now you're just being silly.

Actually I was with that last remark. Suppose trying to get a chuckle from someone during a serious conversation is kinda odd. Sorry.

Anyway, I won't go into the Avatar topic because I just realized how derailed this thread has gotten. This isn't a question of originality in general, this is a question of if Bioware's writers stole the idea for their game from another man's novel, and they obviously did. There's no denying it when faced with the premise and, more importantly, the EXECUTION of how it was conveyed. Some pallet swaps, an orchestra, and a controller won't change the fact that they stole the premise of their game from that novel in particular.

 

[RelexCryo]

anc[is]Not taking sides yet, just wanted to point out that the ancient race's tech thing is pretty common. Precursors from Star Control come to mind.

Yeah, but we're in Starship Troopers is to Armor type territory here, not just random themes popping up again.

You mean Armor by John Steakley? I loved that book.

 

[Ian Caronia]

What you are saying is that once enough people have ripped off each other's stories, the aggregate sum of plagiarism reaches a critical mass, and thus can be declared a convention, at which point following its norms is fine; yet up until that point, one can criticise those works. Tell me you're not being serious.

Kind of a coarse way to put your point there. The difference between having a similar theme and ripping-off another story is the plot, execution, and the details.

A boy becomes and unlikely hero = theme
Robots try to kill mankind = theme

Giant space-faring robots known as Inhibitors come to destroy all life in a cycle = Giant space-faring robots known as Reapers come to...you get the idea.

Sorry, but I'm getting tired, mate. It's 4:36 AM here and I haven't had a wink of sleep.

--Let's try to stay on topic, though. You and I could argue over what is originality and what's plagiarism until the both of us keel over.

 

[daz_O_O]

Ancients and Ori from Stargate-SG1 anyone? Same concept here too.

 

[Kennian]

Humm... Nah you're looking in the wrong place!

ME is basicly a lovecraftian horror dressed up as scifi....

A "old god" stirs, captures a minion and sends it forth to bring it's brothers from the altar leading to the outer darkness.

At least that's what I kept seeing in my head... Especially after the reaver show's it's tenticaly maw. Thinking futher the old gods brainwashed/ drove people mad( indoctrenated), transformed ( Saren and the husks), and corrupted (Geth) as a matter of corse.

Seriously though what we have here is someone who found a new author and had a holy shit moment and promptly started with a mild case of nerd rage. It's harmless, and we realy should move on eh?

Edit: ohyea thanks for the recomendation! I could use more scifi sence weber has abandoned the Empire from the ashes and Throne of Man series!