Did you just call him gay?

[happyninja42]

As someone who was taunted in highschool by a football jock, and dubbed "a ******" by him, it's likely that the kid isn't even gay, and the kid was just being an asshole. Not that it matters if he is or not, but it's very unlikely, just because that guy said it. I'm straight, but damn if this one jerk didn't insist for 3 years straight in school that I was a queer/****** as he put it.

To a previous post saying ignoring it will make it go away, no that doesn't always work. Because I ignored this guy, and he continued for 3 years running, up until he graduated.

To the OP: Yes you did the right thing, physically beating up a kid in middle school when you are much older is not the right way to do it. Though I probably would've used more hostile language than "Yo, cool that shit"

Though it might be a good thing, since you are in a martial arts class with him, to give him a training session in fighting a larger, stronger opponent, knock him down a few pegs maybe. In the constraints of a sparring circle, I think it would be ok, as long as you keep your cool and don't lash out. But giving him a decent ass kicking in sparring is perfectly acceptable. My instructor used to set us against multiple opponents, and larger opponents all the time, to help us deal with unusual, and unfair odds.

The MOST important part of this exchange though, is to turn to the kid who was being bullied, and let him know that you didn't like what the other kid had to say, and to not let it upset him. That "some people are just assholes, don't let them get under your skin"

 

[Nieroshai]

That is the entire point. I gave him options. The same options I have. The same options you have. When you see someone and your first instinct is to be a dick the fact that he might pummel you into the ground is enough to make you stay quiet. You can go around and say whatever the hell you feel like saying but understand that the repercussions might be a punch to the face. The fact that I chose to not hit him is a testament to the type of person I am. But if I found myself in a situation where I thought the best solution was for the kid to get hit. I'll hit him. Look I understand how you feel to a degree. You probably don't think there is ever an appropriate time to use the word fag and gay(in reference to a person) or to be hitting people, but there is a certain balance I try to maintain when making choices. Sometimes a snide remark is the best thing. But not all the time.

I'm not even slightly interested in whether you hit the kid or belittled him or whatever. Personally I think it would've been better to be dismissive - considering the difference in your ages and therefore relative status, that should've indicated to the kid that his behaviour was boring and stupid. What I'm suggesting to you is that when you 'call people fag and gay all the time' for going 'faggy' things (what are these things? [that isn't rhetorical, give me an example]) you're no better than the bully - you're worse because you're older and should know better. You're setting a bad example, and since you're the big boy in this scenario, you shouldn't be surprised that your behaviour is being emulated.

To paraphrase Ron White, there's a huge difference between being gay and being a "******." To elaborate, modern use of "******" is pretty similar to calling someone a **** or asshole or what-have-you. "******" is a gay slur the same way "dick" is derogatory towards men.

I forgive the OP for lack of eloquence, but also point out that if better-worded, his act of restraint would sound less like barely-contained malice.

 

[McElroy]

Didn't that kid get the memo that "ur gay" isn't the go-to insult anymore? Especially after elementary school. The nerve to try to convince a college dude that bullying this kid is the expected thing to do - that's another thing you shouldn't be doing after elementary. Kids these days got no class, and I'm barely an adult myself (21).

 

[Flames66]

Considering violence for something as inconsequential as that? That isn't being a man, or being a good friend. That's like being a random thug in a bar. You did the right thing I guess, though I would have done it with a fraction of the drama.

It bothers me that you would consider what sounds like long term verbal and emotional abuse as "inconsequential". If I discovered someone had caused someone I care about long term psychological damage I would consider laying them out as well.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

An 8th grader doesn't have that thing (A fucking conscience. Even if they do they probably wouldn't listen to it)the we adults have that tells us when we're going to far. That tells us maybe we should lay off on the jokes. They just keep going and going until the victim ends up like my friend a disheveled, pitiful mess.

Totally, an 8th grader wouldn't have a voice in his head that tells him it's not okay to beat up someone ~8 years younger than him just because they're being a dick. Now an adult like you would... uh. Oh.

Sorry, what do we adults have again?

Even if you didn't actually lay him out, it sounds like you were perfectly ready to beat him up if he didn't back down. Not sure if you should be lording your conscience over the kid.

3. I see people do "faggy" and "gay" stuff all the time and I call it as I see it.

This might need to be expanded on... by the sounds of it if your friend was actually gay you could be the guy going around warning his friends about his "fagginess".

OT:
What *I* would do? I would laugh. I find it so absolutely ridiculous that people will legitimately act like this to other people that I'm completely taken back when it happens. I was at the train station once when a guy I've never met before just shouted across to me "Why's your hair so fucking long? What are you, gay? I was so caught of guard I had nothing to do but laugh at him and say "No, I am not in fact gay". For some reason he started apologizing to me afterwards saying he was just try to make a joke.

As much as he might be a snot nosed 8th grader, there's far more impacting things you can do when he says that. You can make him feel like an idiot and a bigot for saying that. Humiliation is a far better teacher than fear in my opinion, fear never forces you to rethink what you're doing, it just gives you a reason not to do it.

EDIT:

To paraphrase Ron White, there's a huge difference between being gay and being a "******." To elaborate, modern use of "******" is pretty similar to calling someone a **** or asshole or what-have-you. "******" is a gay slur the same way "dick" is derogatory towards men.

I forgive the OP for lack of eloquence, but also point out that if better-worded, his act of restraint would sound less like barely-contained malice.

I'm not sure if I totally agree with that. Pretty often a guy is called a ****** for doing anything effeminate, which goes with the stereotype of gay men being more effeminate. Male ballet dancer? What a ******. Enjoys sewing dresses? ******. Sensitive? Not interested in cars? Same deal.

For the record, I've heard a lot more people using the word in contexts like these than I have heard it used similarly to "dick". Given how gay guys tend to be more open to being effeminate, it still strikes me as a slur for someone acting "gay".

 

[visiblenoise]

It bothers me that you would consider what sounds like long term verbal and emotional abuse as "inconsequential". If I discovered someone had caused someone I care about long term psychological damage I would consider laying them out as well.

Okay, I agree with you about the "inconsequential" part, which I didn't give a lot of thought to when I chose that word. But if there really was any effect from the verbal/emotional abuse (which we're still making assumptions about), the solution is to talk it out with your friend and tell him that eighth graders can be little shits and nothing that they say ever matters. Beating the bad guy up just further antagonizes him, and if he does stop, it'll be out of fear, which doesn't stop him from spreading "he's gay" rumors to his friends.

 

[Batou667]

1) Well done for telling the stupid kid off

2) I cringed reading the description. All it would have needed was you grabbing him by the throat, shouting "back the fuck off!?" and proceeding to unsheathe your twin katanas for it to become meme-worthy. Come on, we all like embellishing our stories a bit, but nobody talks in carefully prepared witticisms in real life.

 

[Flames66]

"******" is a gay slur the same way "dick" is derogatory towards men.

No it isn't. I would consider those two insults to be worlds apart.

Why? In what way is "Fuck you, dick!" different from "Fuck you, ******!" I don't understand how referring to someone as a small bundle of twigs is worse than calling someone a male reproductive organ.

 

[Harpalyce]

Jeez OP, the more you talk, the more you give the impression that only you are the Chosen One to Call People Teh Gay, because Not Being Straight is the Ultimate Insult and Therefore You Win in the stunning contest of skill that is threatening to beat up a middle schooler.

By the time people hit college, they usually grow out of such insults. Because they realize that "gay" is just another category of people that is full of people both good and bad and is a neutral descriptor, and because they realize that even if they're using the Ron White definition of "******", if you use "gay" and "fag" as an insult when you know in common parlance it's slang for people who ain't straight, that's kind of scummy. And by kind of scummy, I mean pretty disgusting while also showing zero awareness for not only communicating effectively but for giving non-straight people some basic fucking dignity like not feeling threatened by your super duper amazing badass self just for existing in the same space you occasionally inhabit. Thinking that people different from you are icky bad people is a point of view most people outgrow by the time they hit high school, much less constantly using "eww you're different" as an insult.

Threatening people to make yourself feel like a bigger man is incredibly childish. Probably a habit you should work on giving up, OP.

 

[ninjaRiv]

To be honest, if someone said "he's trying to touch you're dick" I'd say "God, I hope so" and give him a little wink. I like to aggravate people, too, so I'd have likely done something to try and push him into a fight. Well, I don't really LIKE aggravating people but I can't help myself.

 

[bauke67]

That was totally badass, and without anyone getting hurt. Good job!

 

[Harpalyce]

"******" is a gay slur the same way "dick" is derogatory towards men.

No it isn't. I would consider those two insults to be worlds apart.

Why? In what way is "Fuck you, dick!" different from "Fuck you, ******!" I don't understand how referring to someone as a small bundle of twigs is worse than calling someone a male reproductive organ.

C'mon dude, don't be obtuse for the sake of obtuseness. If people were really aiming for the meaning of 'a bundle of sticks', it wouldn't be an insult.

Instead they're going for the meaning of a male homosexual, specifically one that is characterized as effeminate and therefore weak because feminine traits equal weakness. That's why it's a different caliber of insult than "dick". When you call someone a "fag", you're bringing gender and sexuality into the insult.

 

[ninjaRiv]

I still don't know what fight class is, by the way.

You don't talk about fight class.

Am I the first one to make that joke?!? I didn't check, thought I should get it in there fast (that's what she said...).

But OT: It's always good to stand up to bullies. And on the subject of the description being over dramatic: Yeah, it is. Cringe worthy. But these situations can make people like that, especially when you're younger.

 

[Flames66]

"******" is a gay slur the same way "dick" is derogatory towards men.

No it isn't. I would consider those two insults to be worlds apart.

Why? In what way is "Fuck you, dick!" different from "Fuck you, ******!" I don't understand how referring to someone as a small bundle of twigs is worse than calling someone a male reproductive organ.

Instead they're going for the meaning of a male homosexual, specifically one that is characterized as effeminate and therefore weak because feminine traits equal weakness. That's why it's a different caliber of insult than "dick". When you call someone a "fag", you're bringing gender and sexuality into the insult.

If you call someone a dick you are still bringing gender into it. I rarely care what the specific insult it, just how it is meant. If I did something vaguely effeminate and a friend called me a ****** I would take it as a joke. If someone I didn't know called me a dick I would tell them to fuck off.

C'mon dude, don't be obtuse for the sake of obtuseness.

It's how I deal with things.

 

[Drops a Sweet Katana]

I probably would have done what you did, but instead say something to the effect of "Pack it in or I break your arms off and make them shake hands in your lower intestine. Am I understood?"

 

[Harpalyce]

If you call someone a dick you are still bringing gender into it. I rarely care what the specific insult it, just how it is meant. If I did something vaguely effeminate and a friend called me a ****** I would take it as a joke. If someone I didn't know called me a dick I would tell them to fuck off.

C'mon dude, don't be obtuse for the sake of obtuseness.

It's how I deal with things.

At risk of giving myself a headache, I'll assume you're being obtuse not to aggravate people but just in an attempt to understand. Lemme see if I can illuminate.

When you call someone a dick, you're not bringing in this idea that they are effeminate (and therefore bad, because feminine things are bad).

This is why ****, despite being on the face the exact same (just describing genetalia), is culturally accepted to be a more heavy-duty insult (most places; I'm speaking from America's PoV, Australia seems to be a bit weird about this). A **** is a feminine thing, it's what at birth gets you assigned female. Gender essentialism aside, this follows the above rule - it's feminine, therefore bad, because feminine things are bad.

****** is a heavier-duty insult because it's not talking about what's between your legs, but it's also bringing in the cultural idea that by being a homosexual male, you're effeminate, and being feminine is bad. Just look at the campy stereotypes of what a gay dude is like, and there you go.

It's that bringing in the idea that someone is girly (and therefore girly is bad) that makes "fag" a more high-calibur and different insult than just "dick".

Of course, the idea that femininity = weakness = bad is utter bullshit. But it's all inside our society right now in subtle and toxic little ways, and that's what's in play with making these two insults different.

 

[Nathaniel Grey]

Many people seem to focusing on the whole "Gay" thing which isn't prevalent in this situation. I didn't care about the slur specifically. I cared about the emotional damage he was doing to my friend. If I thought he could, and did, shrug of insults the same way you all do I would have just let him handle it.

What I'm suggesting to you is that when you 'call people fag and gay all the time' for going 'faggy' things (what are these things? [that isn't rhetorical, give me an example]) you're no better than the bully - you're worse because you're older and should know better. You're setting a bad example, and since you're the big boy in this scenario, you shouldn't be surprised that your behaviour is being emulated.

I use the word fag to describe a man doing really effeminate things (Not really used in a sexual sense). Example, I was watching the movie "Crank" with my friend and his mother and there is a scene where the protagonist's friend shows up in a skirt, heels, and a tight shirt. He gets shot at, throws his hands in the air, shakes them like jazz hands, and shrieks at a high pitched tone. My friend's mother says at that point "What a ******." And I agree. We didn't mind the whole cross-dressing ensemble. But the shrieking and running like a girl was, we considered, faggoty.

Totally, an 8th grader wouldn't have a voice in his head that tells him it's not okay to beat up someone ~8 years younger than him just because they're being a dick. Now an adult like you would... uh. Oh.

Sorry, what do we adults have again?

Even if you didn't actually lay him out, it sounds like you were perfectly ready to beat him up if he didn't back down. Not sure if you should be lording your conscience over the kid.

I am perfectly ready to smack some sense into someone that I decide needs smacking. You are applying what you deem is right to me. I was raised where actions could have physical consequences and I seeing nothing wrong with that. You seem to. But that is not the issue here. I was taught that you don't talk to anyone in that manner if you're not ready to get beat up. This kid apparently wasn't. BUT NOW HE KNOWS!

 

[Harpalyce]

I use the word fag to describe a man doing really effeminate things (Not really used in a sexual sense). Example, I was watching the movie "Crank" with my friend and his mother and there is a scene where the protagonist's friend shows up in a skirt, heels, and a tight shirt. He gets shot at, throws his hands in the air, shakes them like jazz hands, and shrieks at a high pitched tone. My friend's mother says at that point "What a ******." And I agree. We didn't mind the whole cross-dressing ensemble. But the shrieking and running like a girl was, we considered, faggoty.

Lord above, it's almost like I can hold a feminist campfire singalong here and now. Break out your guitars, y'all, but instead of kumbayah we have gender essentialism and the prevailing idea that men acting "girly" is bad because acting effeminate and feminine is bad because women are bad! Now to go get a Mumford and Sons style banjo solo and some s'mores and we'll have the complete package.

People are getting hung up on the whole 'gay' thing because you're pretty much doing what you were getting mad at this kid for. That's hypocritical at best, mate. And at worst, a whole lot of people are realizing that when you get to college, maybe you should, idk, give up that hidden hatred of things being girly and the association that girliness is bad? But either way, it might do to give up the same bad habit that you were ready to punch a kid over. Just a thought.