Did you miss BREXIT now that it is technically done ?

Agema

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But is is exactly the stuff the UK is now reversing and so far they don't have presented any alternative. That likely will mean a hard border and they will try to blame the EU for it.
To add an element of doubt, it's possible the UK is just playing a gigantic game of chicken (driving a horse & cart against the EU's 20 ton truck).

It's hard to view things like it trying to query the EU's Designation of Origin rules as any kind of good faith negotiation, for instance. The EU will defend that to its dying breath, it makes sense only an absurd spoiler tactic.

So do they actually even have Northern Ireland protocols sorted yet?
No. In fact, this is what has spurred the latest major controversy.

The UK agreed "frictionless" trade across the border between NI and Ireland, meaning that there would need to be some sort of internal customs checks between NI and the rest of the UK instead. This is what the UK signed up to in January with the EU-UK treaty. The government is now passing a law effectively scrapping that provision of the international treaty it signed so that there won't be custom checks, which means there must be checks at the Ireland/NI border instead. It has admitted it is knowingly breaking international law, in a "specific and limited" way. Civil servants who give the government legal advice have resigned: they advised the government it was illegal and have been ignored. Effectively, if parliament passes this bill, the UK is a rogue state that will not honour its international treaties. The Conservative Party MPs might rebel against the government in enough strength, but honestly I think they're far too weak and cowardly: pathetic little men and women out of their depth and without a backbone.

This another bizarre incident, because the USA and many of its leaders invested a lot into the NI peace process. It's incredible to believe they are going to accept the UK screwing the peace process over, and then hand the UK a trade deal as if nothing's happened. In fact, quite a few US politicians have flat out warned the UK that they won't get a trade deal if they do this. The UK is not the USA, large and powerful enough able to swan around making unilateral rules and forcing some degree of compliance for other countries.
 

lil devils x

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To add an element of doubt, it's possible the UK is just playing a gigantic game of chicken (driving a horse & cart against the EU's 20 ton truck).

It's hard to view things like it trying to query the EU's Designation of Origin rules as any kind of good faith negotiation, for instance. The EU will defend that to its dying breath, it makes sense only an absurd spoiler tactic.



No. In fact, this is what has spurred the latest major controversy.

The UK agreed "frictionless" trade across the border between NI and Ireland, meaning that there would need to be some sort of internal customs checks between NI and the rest of the UK instead. This is what the UK signed up to in January with the EU-UK treaty. The government is now passing a law effectively scrapping that provision of the international treaty it signed so that there won't be custom checks, which means there must be checks at the Ireland/NI border instead. It has admitted it is knowingly breaking international law, in a "specific and limited" way. Civil servants who give the government legal advice have resigned: they advised the government it was illegal and have been ignored. Effectively, if parliament passes this bill, the UK is a rogue state that will not honour its international treaties. The Conservative Party MPs might rebel against the government in enough strength, but honestly I think they're far too weak and cowardly: pathetic little men and women out of their depth and without a backbone.

This another bizarre incident, because the USA and many of its leaders invested a lot into the NI peace process. It's incredible to believe they are going to accept the UK screwing the peace process over, and then hand the UK a trade deal as if nothing's happened. In fact, quite a few US politicians have flat out warned the UK that they won't get a trade deal if they do this. The UK is not the USA, large and powerful enough able to swan around making unilateral rules and forcing some degree of compliance for other countries.
Yea, I mentioned that above. US told UK from the start of Brexit talks that if there is a hard border with NI, No trade deals will be approved in US congress. Any setbacks in regards to NI/ UK could get ugly from my understanding, I remember there being talk back when Brexit was just being brought up about the possibility of sanctions if the UK violated the agreement, putting all the squabbling back to where it was in the like early 2000's over it. So not only would it screw up contracts it could set them back in other areas.
Do the people that are promoting this even have a clue how badly this can go wrong, or are they just not even aware or something?They could be facing sanctions from both EU and US if it really gets stupid.
 

Agema

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Do the people that are promoting this even have a clue how badly this can go wrong, or are they just not even aware or something?They could be facing sanctions from both EU and US if it really gets stupid.
No, possibly they aren't that stupid.

But they are I think people who believe that the more extreme and crazy they act, they more they might force the EU to concede. The aim, I suspect, is the UK government wants to rattle the French and German governments so that they pressure the EU into making concessions. I think the French and German governments are wise to this ploy, and it's going to fall flat on its face.

In practice, the UK's record in these negotiations is not getting what it has wanted. It's putting up a long and incredibly stupid and antagonistic fight in order to posture to the British public how strong it is, then at the very last moment completely capitulating except for some cosmetic, trivial concessions which it can use to parade as some sort of victory. The thing is, Boris Johnson isn't as interested in a deal as Theresa May was: I think the people running his operation have very different ideas about a post-EU UK which very much includes no deal at all. This is why I suspect the UK might actually be sabotaging the talks as an excuse to walk away.
 
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lil devils x

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No, possibly they aren't that stupid.

But they are I think people who believe that the more extreme and crazy they act, they more they might force the EU to concede. The aim, I suspect, is the UK government wants to rattle the French and German governments so that they pressure the EU into making concessions. I think the French and German governments are wise to this ploy, and it's going to fall flat on its face.

In practice, the UK's record in these negotiations is not getting what it has wanted. It's putting up a long and incredibly stupid and antagonistic fight in order to posture to the British public how strong it is, then at the very last moment completely capitulating except for some cosmetic, trivial concessions which it can use to parade as some sort of victory. The thing is, Boris Johnson isn't as interested in a deal as Theresa May was: I think the people running his operation have very different ideas about a post-EU UK which very much includes no deal at all. This is why I suspect the UK might actually be sabotaging the talks as an excuse to walk away.
The UK lost their negotiating power when they left the EU, their entire ability to get what they wanted before rested upon them threatening to " withdraw from the EU" but they did that now so what exactly do they have to really leverage anymore?

The EU can just give the contracts they had with the UK to some other EU member state or other one of the other nations lining up trying to bid for those contracts couldn't they? It isn't like there aren't a ton of other companies salivating at a chance to take the place of UK contracts with the EU as it is. The UK has to know the EU has already been bombard by foreign competitors trying to get a foot in the door if they think they have a chance to undermine the UK and steal a contract from them don't they? I am not sure what the UK could even do to rattle the French or Germans at this point anyhow. I am not seeing why the EU would really have that much of a problem with a no deal for the UK, it would hurt the UK more than it hurts the EU. All the while they drag this out, they are losing UK business contracts to others coming in to swoop them up, surely the UK government has to know this is still happening right now?


AND this isn't even getting into all the different private businesses underbidding UK businesses right now or pulling out due to the perceived instability in the UK.
 

Thaluikhain

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All the while they drag this out, they are losing UK business contracts to others coming in to swoop them up, surely the UK government has to know this is still happening right now?
I suspect they also know that the people making the decisions aren't the people that'd have to pay for it it any meaningful sense. Win or lose, they don't lose.
 

Agema

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I suspect they also know that the people making the decisions aren't the people that'd have to pay for it it any meaningful sense. Win or lose, they don't lose.
As with Trump's administration in the USA, the corruption in the UK government is at this point almost overt. Much is "legal" corruption, by which I mean it's plainly dubious and unethical conduct, but not technically illegal - hence what I meant above about government contracts flowing out to friends and associates of government ministers, such as the temporary halt on normal government procurement procedures due to covid-19. Unscrupulous shits in the government have seen the opportunity to throw money at their chums and taken it.

Some of it is also illegal or improper: Robert Jenrick, Communities and Local Government minister, who tried to interfere in a planning decision to get a Tory donor out of paying £35 million in tax. A decade ago, if a minister didn't resign for that they'd have been kicked out. But not in this administration, where both good conduct and a sense of shame are things for other people.
 
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It's funny how some people still pretend that Brexit was anything but a whiny nativist cry of "we'll show THEM that we don't NEED them!", and never had any thought put into it beyond that.
 

Iron

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Well, with the withdrawal agreement done,, transition period certain until end of december and the UK having technically already left it has been kinda silent for the last months.

But fear not, the drama and welcome distraction from US antics and corona is back :

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-new-brexit-bill-will-break-international-law

The UK gouvernment wants to break the withdrawal agreement now that certain unpleasent parts of the treaty are bound to actually come into force. Reneging on an international treaty not even really a year old. Breaking international law by its own admission.


The bill also allows to overrule the Scots and Welsh on food safety so that the English can decide alone if they want to import chlorinated chicken in the future.
UK should set up salt-mines around remainer strongholds to try and shore up the economy
 

Baffle

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Extra toilets in Kent! Ex-tra toilets in Kent ladies and gents! Any takers for ex-tra toilets in Kent? Sold! To the huge queue of truckers pissing in bottles!
 

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D-Day is tomorrow and I dont think there has been any agreement yet.

But it's not like we havent whooshed past a few other D-day set by Bojo
 

Baffle

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D-Day is tomorrow and I dont think there has been any agreement yet.

But it's not like we havent whooshed past a few other D-day set by Bojo
His failure to die in a ditch was a great disappointment to many. Or to get run over by a JCB.
 

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I like the fact that it pissed off Merkel whose a pro-CCP East German Communist enabler.

Also by the way she accepted refugees in her country not out of kindness, but to increase the population pool to counter the aging population of Germany, and to provide a cushion in case Germany was invaded by a Russian armored assault, and to likely in the future conscript those refugees, and their children because she can't be brother to increased her military spending to meet her defense obligations Same with Sweden.

Despite the fact that most Germans hate CCP controlled China in multiple pew research and Eurobarometer polls, she lets them spy on her country via 5G and her idiot communist enabling lemmings businessman like Volkswagon, and BMW is doing business in China despite the fact there are concentration camps in China. She didn't learn anything from World War 2. Only how to line her own pockets.
 
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I like the fact that it pissed off Merkel whose a pro-CCP East German Communist enabler.

Also by the way she accepted refugees in her country not out of kindness, but to increase the population pool to counter the aging population of Germany, and to provide a cushion in case Germany was invaded by a Russian armored assault, and to likely in the future concept those refugees, and their children. Same with Sweden.

Despite the fact that most Germans hate CCP controlled China in multiple pew research and Eurobarometer polls, she lets them spy on her country via 5G and her idiot communist enabling lemmings businessman like Volkswagon, and BMW is doing business in China despite the fact there are concentration camps in China. She didn't learn anything from World War 2. Only how to line her own pockets.
Holy BASED that is a beautiful post please do more
 

Agema

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Holy BASED that is a beautiful post please do more
I can't quite tell whether it's sarcastic or not.

D-Day is tomorrow and I dont think there has been any agreement yet.

But it's not like we havent whooshed past a few other D-day set by Bojo
No, BoJo unilaterally set D-day back again, for I think the third time. The EU agreed of course, because they're trying to be co-operative, but they are most bemused.

The gossip is that when a UK government minister with at least a minimal level of competence (they're quite rare, currently) finally took the time to look at the state of negotiations, he metaphorically soiled his pants because there was no chance of sorting a deal out in time, and that was extremely bad. So eventually the wheels of the government churned and Boris took some time off from... whatever the fuck he does, because he surely doesn't spend much time governing, and extended the treaty deadline.
 

Trunkage

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No, BoJo unilaterally set D-day back again, for I think the third time. The EU agreed of course, because they're trying to be co-operative, but they are most bemused.

The gossip is that when a UK government minister with at least a minimal level of competence (they're quite rare, currently) finally took the time to look at the state of negotiations, he metaphorically soiled his pants because there was no chance of sorting a deal out in time, and that was extremely bad. So eventually the wheels of the government churned and Boris took some time off from... whatever the fuck he does, because he surely doesn't spend much time governing, and extended the treaty deadline.
Is he literally going to push the deadline past Dec 31? Once he didn’t hold the first D-day, everyone knew he had lost his game of chicken. He just hasn’t realised yet
 

Agema

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Is he literally going to push the deadline past Dec 31? Once he didn’t hold the first D-day, everyone knew he had lost his game of chicken. He just hasn’t realised yet
I think the UK government will not resolve anything of significance before mid-November, because it wants to know who is going to be running the USA 2021-2024.

Trump is obviously EU hostile - honestly, he might even pull the USA out of NATO with a second term - whereas Biden is pretty much US foreign policy as normal and will pivot towards the EU. This therefore has a huge impact on the UK's plans to steer a course between the two powers. Although "plans" might be optimistic - the UK government is currently run by a bunch of people who could kindly be called rank amateurs in statecraft.