Oh for fuck's sake. If you can't handle someone pointing out your source adds nothing and is BS, don't post it.RiseOfTheWhiteWolf said:
Dissing Mass Effect Andromeda because it has diversity and equality
- Thread starter Nature Guardian
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Well, to be fair, in the current day and age, having a game which "Pushes diversity", is in itself making a political statement. And a controversial one at that.Nature Guardian said:
You can't really say "This is how we should be!" and then "But pls don't disagree" with a video game. They're media, not tumblr posts.
If you make games which feature controversial politics, you really only have it coming when people disagree with those politics.
Imagine if you will, a game comes out, and it paints "Diversity" in a negative light. There'd be a shitstorm about it.
It's controversial in the same way that M!Shep being able to have a male love interest in ME3 was controversial.The Lunatic said:
Well you're not wrong. People did utterly hate Ethnic Cleansing. I just fail to see how that's a bad thing.
This whole mess just reminds me why I don't really identify as a gamer anymore.
erttheking said:
Well, to be fair, there's a whole debate on the relativity of morality, so, you can't really say "I just fail to see how that's a bad thing" unless you're also saying "I agree with that, therefore it's fine".
I'd say there's more to it than being "In the same way" as the things in ME3 were.
That was quite some years ago, the landscape has changed. When ME3 was adding gay lovers, it wasn't in a time when you could go on twitter and see one of the developers saying "You don't need class when killing white people".
*Sigh* We're playing this game? Ok. I fail to see any positives to a game dedicated to killing non-whites and Jews, nor do I see how people could be faulted for lashing out against it. Considering it's a hateful little game that boils ethnic minorities down to stereotypes that need to be killed.The Lunatic said:
I wouldn't. I really have a hard time lashing out at diversity as anything other than just having a problem with it as a concept, having a problem with people outside of their race/gender/whatever in stories. A very close minded mindset to have.
Yeah, it was a time where you could compare being gay to being a pedophile, considering that around that time, some people said that if you were putting homosexuals in Mass Effect, you would have to put in pedophiles as well. Also question, what did that comment have to do with our conversation in the slightest?
I'm all for diversity and such. But some people's alarms are going off when they notice things like besides the default white-guy Rhyder they can put on all the promotional material, there are not really any white character presets. And there being no attractive female presets. And all this with the slimmest character creation options in a Mass Effect game to date. They added a ton of face tattoos to make your character look sufficiently like a clown for those people that like their characters outrageous, but people are noting it's very difficult to make the women look attractive. However, character customization I couldn't give a crap about. Your character gets a helmet anyway, who cares.
What concerns me is them making all the main female characters less attractive. Yes, there's always some accounting for tastes in what you think is attractive, but when they're making women across-the-board look very different than in other Mass Effect games, and they're replacing some revealing clothing with more armor, something is up. They're even making the Asari look worse. The Asari essentially being a sexy alien trope like from Star Trek where the only purpose they have on stage is to give Capt Kirk a love interest to lust over all episode. The entire race is made up of only females, so they're obviously a male fantasy. They're designed to all be very attractive, and the way they reproduce is to literally have sex with any alien species, including shaping their own bodies to fit the genitals of other races in order to re-sequence their DNA for viable reproduction. It's actually discouraged for them to mate among themselves, so they're supposed to sleep around with men of many races, and some women. But in Andromeda they made the Asari companion, Peebee look more like Shrek. There was never an Asari in any previous Mass-Effect that wasn't attractive, even when they were taken over by grotesque parasites and zombified in ME1.
Yes, things change, ugly women in games are possible. But some of that is what made Mass Effect great to many players. It's become obvious to many people that there is a strong "SJW" influence just for its own sake.
What concerns me is them making all the main female characters less attractive. Yes, there's always some accounting for tastes in what you think is attractive, but when they're making women across-the-board look very different than in other Mass Effect games, and they're replacing some revealing clothing with more armor, something is up. They're even making the Asari look worse. The Asari essentially being a sexy alien trope like from Star Trek where the only purpose they have on stage is to give Capt Kirk a love interest to lust over all episode. The entire race is made up of only females, so they're obviously a male fantasy. They're designed to all be very attractive, and the way they reproduce is to literally have sex with any alien species, including shaping their own bodies to fit the genitals of other races in order to re-sequence their DNA for viable reproduction. It's actually discouraged for them to mate among themselves, so they're supposed to sleep around with men of many races, and some women. But in Andromeda they made the Asari companion, Peebee look more like Shrek. There was never an Asari in any previous Mass-Effect that wasn't attractive, even when they were taken over by grotesque parasites and zombified in ME1.
Yes, things change, ugly women in games are possible. But some of that is what made Mass Effect great to many players. It's become obvious to many people that there is a strong "SJW" influence just for its own sake.
Avoiding diversity is also a political statement, though not necessarily an explicit one and perhaps not even an intentional one.The Lunatic said:
Depends what you mean by painting "diversity" in a negative light. If you mean opting to focus on characters from a certain demographic (men, women, Africans, etc.) that's not necessarily a bad thing and if the setting justifies it there probably won't be any controversy.
If you mean explicitly saying that "diversity" is bad then a negative response is completely justified as the game itself will alienate groups of people. Not only will it alienate those that the developer explicitly wants to neglect, but it will also alienate those from groups the developer wants to represent who think it's a shitty move.
There aren't any white pre-set characters? So? I'm assuming there are still white options? No "attractive" presets. That's your opinion. Personally I think the default Sarah Ryder looks pretty damn attractive.MHR said:
You'll have to forgive me if I don't really see that is a big deal. What do you mean? Instead of catsuits, leather belts that act as bras, and cleavage windows that almost go down to their navels, women wear actual armor this time around? Also, Asari aren't female, they're genderless. Eh...male fantasy? Not really. Heck, I'd go so far to say it plays with the trope more than anything else. Liara's father downright complains that Asari spend more time dancing during their Maiden years when they should be being productive. Shrek? I'm sorry, Shrek? Uh. No. No. Just no.
This person? Shrek?
https://assets.vg247.com/current//2016/09/mass_effect_andromeda_asari_lady_ps4_pro_reveal_1.jpg
With her flat stomach, bared naval, and overall attractive figure?
With her flat stomach, bared naval, and overall attractive figure?
No Asari that wasn't attractive? Even after they were zombified? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wSUU8lgZF7k/maxresdefault.jpg
I think you'd find quite a few people who'd disagree with you on that one.
Uh, I've seen a lot of people talk about what was so great in Mass Effect. "It has lots of hot ladies" was never one of them.
Mr.Chipman, I could've sworn I read a post from you insisting that the Escapist was a place you'd never show your face in again?IceForce said:
Also can we maybe not bring in eugenics for once? I mean I know it's your favorite subject and all, but come the fuck on, people just want to have their portion of fantasy in a fucking video game. Some women want to be able to look at pretty women in said fucking video game without it having to be about male gaze or lesbian representation. Some guys want to look at pretty women simply because pretty boys are boring to them and having a disproportionate amount of pretty boys from a company and game that likes to preach about equality and diversity is a bit condescending.
Depends on what you mean by avoiding diversity honestly. Some people just don't want to bother with the baggage that comes with it the moment you say that word, especially in the tech industry as of late.Dizchu said:
Try this oneerttheking said:
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/masseffect/images/5/59/Peebee_trailer_mug.png/revision/latest?cb=20161203185616
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
Totes forgot about that banshee thing, mah bad. Not really like they count though. Every Asari looks female though, saying they're genderless doesn't carry a lot of weight. And liking "hot ladies" is part of the romantic side-plots lots of people praise. You don't see a problem, and maybe strictly speaking it's not a significant problem, but it is there.
Same character. Still not seeing the Shrek comparison. Like, at all. Is being just a little thicker in the face enough to be compared to someone who looks like he's a few pounds away from being morbidly obese? It's what they are though. It's what they were flat out to be stated that they were in game. They honestly do a fair bit with it. I get the feeling that there was more to the sub-plots than just the ladies being hot. You know what makes me say that? Easily the most popular love interest in Mass Effect was this person.MHR said:
https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_small/3/32621/1258281-tali_zorah_nar_rayya_mass_effect_2_screenshot_character.jpg
Tied with this person.
http://pre09.deviantart.net/bf00/th/pre/f/2012/087/3/c/garrus_vakarian_by_donabruja-d4u754c.jpg
Added image for comparison here. It's not that strong, but people have made the comparison. And you're not showing the rest of Tali'zorah there. Her figure was 11/10, the voice was cute, and the helmet was just enough to leave it to a person's imagination. The imagination is the strongest erogenous zone.erttheking said:
It's a comparison that I can't view as carrying any weight at all. It's pure hyperbole.MHR said:
11/10? I mean sure. 11/10. If you like chicken feet. I mean, she's not exactly depicted as ugly, but 11/10?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/2a/cd/f2/2acdf2128236d0ac4b52253e765b95cd.jpg
And are we really going to argue that all you need to do to make someone sexually attractive is give them a cute voice and not show anything else? That seems like quite the oversimplification.
I can see it. I mean, it's less a problem with the character's design and more a problem with the animations. She doesn't always look like Shrek, but every now and then her animation gets janky and wham, Shrek-face.erttheking said:
I wouldn't have noticed it unless it was pointed out, but now that it's been pointed out I can't unsee it.
I know more than a few voice actors that are chosen for specifically that reason...erttheking said:
And I also know that it was part of what kept me wanting to stay in touch with my on/off girlfriend (now fiance) for five years while we were in uni. A cute voice honestly can do wonders simply because you're imagining how someone's face would have to be constructed to get like that. How they grew up that led them to speaking like that.
I mean, c'mon, you talk about how much you're always writing, how many characters that you got attached to were because you imagined how they sounded and how much you loved your imagining of what they sounded like even if you despised their characters?
I suppose that could be a thing, but people have been calling her ugly long before we saw video of her, when we were only going off of pictures.bastardofmelbourne said: