Dissing Mass Effect Andromeda because it has diversity and equality

[Redryhno]

Hell, when was the last time you remember a non-straight character being anything other than a largely idealized human being? I'm not saying they can't be that, just that the number of outright villainous non-straight characters compared to even non-white women villains is in the single digits. But that's getting into another debate.

Anders in Dragon Age 2 leaps to mind. Forcefully and immediately.

Gay Tony, of course, not being a role model.

Past that, a lot of the stereotypical example of "gay villains" tended to get cut out of games when they crossed the pond. Like this guy:

I mean, yeah, there are a lot of straight villains. Probably as many as there are straight heros.

Anders? The Alistair replacement from Awakenings? It's truly a shame that he never appeared in the series again...

Gay Tony is still portrayed as a sympathetic character however much of a "villain" he may be. Which in terms of GTA, he's nearly a fucking saint if I'm remembering correctly.

And I'm going to admit, I have no idea who that is supposed to be.

And my point is not that there are alot of straight villains or straight heroes, simply that in comparison to other minority groups, non-straight characters that are villains are few and far between compared to non-straight heroes or people you're supposed to feel - in the worst case scenarios - pity for far more than anger or annoyance.

And you're now taking the obtuse route for diversity to justify your argument. Neither of us said a damn thing about diversity of gameplay or environments before this post.

Uhh no, I am explaining why the lack of diversity can harm an experience even if it's "intentional". The reason people want diversity in their characters is the same reason why people want diversity when it comes to level design and gameplay. It just makes things more interesting, more dynamic. People dislike samey characters and samey environments because they display a very tiny range of experiences and without anything to spice it up, it just becomes stagnant.

Then explain to me what a gay character brings that an ambiguous orientation character brings to a game in terms of narrative beyond them simply being "lazy" writing. Note that I'm not saying including gay characters is lazy, simply that in terms of writing, I find it boring and ground that's been tread far too often, especially in recent years. What does the story of a gay kid being ostracized bring that the story of say, a kid inhabited by a demon or even something as simple as just being from a family that has different values being ostracized doesn't?

What's interesting is that including female characters, LGBT characters, non-white characters etc. is considered "filling a box" but having a straight white dude with brown hair and a stubble is not. Keep in mind, publishers are hesitant about this kind of stuff. They didn't want Elizabeth on the box art of Bioshock Infinite because dudebro focus testers wanted Booker. Life is Strange struggled to get made because publishers didn't think a game with a female protagonist would sell... and wow, it actually sold millions and cornered a niche market.

The thing is, I never suggested that it should be a priority. It should be an important consideration in certain kinds of games (for example sci-fi games and any game that has fully-customisable characters). If you're only doing it to "fill a mold" then as far as I'm concerned that's only marginally better than relying on the "chiseled white dude" mold.

That's because white guy with brown hair can be anything without it mattering to anyone. It's because white guy with brown hair is sorta the Clint Eastwood of gaming. You can put him in any situation and nobody gives a shit about him because he's just your avatar in the gameworld the majority of the time. Sure, it's lazy here too, but it's lazy in the way that is safe, and it's simpler to have a "safe" avatar than it is to not have white dude with brown hair. Allows more space that is socially acceptable.

And can we stop bringing up Infinite? It's a game that IS a dudebro shooter, I don't care how often anyone tries to say it isn't. The story stops making what little sense it had around the time you start universe jumping and all you're really left with is shooting shit and before that so much of it could've been avoided by literally any thought on the part of Booker, so much talk about the "mark" the traitor has and he never thinks "hey, I've got a fantastically odd tattoo, maybe I should cover it up in this city full of people that are very much not tattoo appreciators".

As for LiS, it's more one of those games that got made at the right time, Telltale hadn't gone completely off the deepend with their crap and weren't fully trying to write original stories in established settings and their engine was still being praised. And I still don't believe that piece of crap sold as much as it did. I largely consider it an exception and a perfect storm of luck more than anything.

To me, Overwatch does this masterfully and should set an example for other games to follow and actually, in that game it was a priority to have a diverse cast. It took TF2's design philosophy to the next step and I think that's cool, and so do most people actually. There's good ways and bad ways of doing it but I would much rather that people even attempt it at all than go back to the zero-risk cookie-cutter approach of the past.

And yet again, Overwatch. Of course. The stereotype game of stereotypes. Not saying it's a bad example, just that it is ridiculously shallow to the point that the majority of the fan-art, both porn and non-porn that came out before the game launched, has become canon in some way or another. In terms of characters, the game doesn't have much depth or sense of adventure when it comes to characters. They are what they are, the rest is window-dressing in a multiplayer title.

There's multiple ways to approach this. First of all I think the reason why you're having a hard time thinking of these "non-idealised" characters is because there simply aren't many LGBT or non-white female characters in general. Certainly not compared to white, straight and/or male characters.

Secondly given the small number of these characters, people become hyper-conscious of depicting minority/female characters if they are not often seen elsewhere. I don't doubt that idealised characters arise because of this, but to me it seems completely understandable aaaand the best way to remedy this is to have more diversity! Like, in general. You might be complaining now that there are too many idealised LGBT or non-white characters but it wasn't long ago when the reverse was true.

I believe I covered this when I said "even when compared to non-white female characters". I know how few characters there are. I'm just saying that we need more gay villains that don't play the "I'm gay so you have to feel some manner of pity for my choices in life" card. And we need less gay heroes/randos that play the "I'm gay, therefore you need to feel sorry/admiration for me and my choices in life" card. We need more characters that aren't defined by their gayness or lack thereof. We need more non-straight characters that are actually called out on any bullshit they try to pull without it being the Evilbad McTerribad option. Hell, I'd even settle for more characters that become your best friend like Garrus and the way many JRPGs handle non-sexual relationships between members of the opposite sex.

I'm all for gay characters, provided it isn't a centerpiece of who they are or a major storyline involving said gayness. Because it's boring and has been done to death. I can't be bothered to care about the kid that got kicked out because he was gay, because it's not something that I can connect with anymore.

Call it hypocritical if you want when it comes to my views on the white guy with brown hair debate, but I like to think there's a difference between a texture and writing.

Personally I'd love to see more non-white female or LGBT villains, that'd be great. I guarantee that there'll be plenty in the future if trends continue the way they're going. The thing is, if you cast the only gay person in your story as the bad guy in a time where LGBT characters are quite uncommon, it kinda contributes to the stigma/stereotyping of gay people (well, unless it's handled very well). Does that suck? Sure. But as I said, the best remedy is to just let diversity happen.

And that's what I'm saying as well. Don't go looking for diversity initially, just let it happen as it happens. And a request to not throw a fit if it doesn't appear is all I've ever asked for. I mean, just look at how people are now treating Cora for a fucking haircut. A haircut and general style that I still don't really get(like seriously, just cut your hair short or shave your head, quit half-assing it).

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Hell, when was the last time you remember a non-straight character being anything other than a largely idealized human being? I'm not saying they can't be that, just that the number of outright villainous non-straight characters compared to even non-white women villains is in the single digits. But that's getting into another debate.

Anders in Dragon Age 2 leaps to mind. Forcefully and immediately.

Gay Tony, of course, not being a role model.

Past that, a lot of the stereotypical example of "gay villains" tended to get cut out of games when they crossed the pond. Like this guy:

I mean, yeah, there are a lot of straight villains. Probably as many as there are straight heros.

Anders? The Alistair replacement from Awakenings? It's truly a shame that he never appeared in the series again...

Gay Tony is still portrayed as a sympathetic character however much of a "villain" he may be. Which in terms of GTA, he's nearly a fucking saint if I'm remembering correctly.

And I'm going to admit, I have no idea who that is supposed to be.

And my point is not that there are alot of straight villains or straight heroes, simply that in comparison to other minority groups, non-straight characters that are villains are few and far between compared to non-straight heroes or people you're supposed to feel - in the worst case scenarios - pity for far more than anger or annoyance.

In that case, I'm not sure what you're asking for. You wanted non-straight characters who weren't largely idealized human beings, I gave you non-straight characters who weren't largely idealized. You wanted non-straight villains, I gave you non-straight villains. Hell, I even stuck to the most stereotypical, because I can guarantee that if I merely included villains who were merely flamboyant and off-putting, like Ghirahim, they wouldn't count. Hell, have a tvtropes page, click on video games: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DepravedHomosexual

That's a fair bit more than "single digits", and that's only a particularly squicky subset of them. (Besides, how often do "straight" bad guys go "bee tee dubs, I'm totally straight" before you fight them. Be weird as shit for most villains to announce what plumbing they're into before trying to take over the world. I'd imagine Ganondorf's sexuality never really comes into play all that much. Which is a shame, as "only male-identifying member of an all female tribe who is destined to bring ruin to the world" could be a very interesting story hook if used with tact.)

So I don't really know what you want.

 

[Dragonlayer]

Ah, now I remember why it's a terrible idea to use the internet for finding any Mass Effect information beyond official news.

Now granted, I made the awful mistake of reading a FunnyJunk sourced article and attached comments about a less then brilliant character creation system, so I'm fully prepared to accept it's a bunch of fearmongering bullshit from a site whose usual highest rated content is along the lines of "SWEDISH CUCK REALISES HE LOVES TAKING IT UP THE ASS FROM SAND ****** FEMINAZIS!". But as someone who would take a bullet for their repeatedly bought ME trilogy box-set, Andromeda not sucking is *kinda* important to me (look Bioware, it doesn't even have to be Witcher 3 godly, just make it better then Inquisition - for the love of God, please let it be better then Inquisition!).

So, I have one very important question for anyone in the know.

Is Andromeda's character-creation system simply code for White Genocide Can I still make a hideously white, freakishly tall bearded git self-insert? And have they finally learnt how to make decent facial hair yet?

[small]Ok, technically that was two questions but shut up.[/small]

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

And have they finally learnt how to make decent facial hair yet?

I have no interest in playing Andromeda, but I want to take this opportunity to express my disgust for how hideous the male main character's(?) facial hair looks.

Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY GOING FOR HERE??? This guy has the hair of a 50's greaser, the armor of a badass space soldier, and the facial hair of a guy you'd have serious second thoughts about if you were buying a used car from them. Fuck me, SHAVE IT FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!!!!

Cultural lesson: here in Finland we have a term called "amis mustache", which has nothing to do with the amish. The slang term "amis" refers to a man around 16-19 years old who's obsessed with cars, drinking, getting stupidly oversized loudspeakers and who doesn't have many other interests or aspirations in life. The amis moustache is the hideous, wispy, weak mustache they grow as a result of either trying to look manly, or just being unkempt. And this is the first time I've seen a AAA studio have the amis moustache on their game's main character. Good for them, but for me it's enough reason to not touch this game with a 100 foot pole.

 

[Avnger]

And have they finally learnt how to make decent facial hair yet?

I have no interest in playing Andromeda, but I want to take this opportunity to express my disgust for how hideous the male main character's(?) facial hair looks.

Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY GOING FOR HERE??? This guy has the hair of a 50's greaser, the armor of a badass space soldier, and the facial hair of a guy you'd have serious second thoughts about if you were buying a used car from them. Fuck me, SHAVE IT FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!!!!

Cultural lesson: here in Finland we have a term called "amis mustache", which has nothing to do with the amish. The slang term "amis" refers to a man around 16-19 years old who's obsessed with cars, drinking, getting stupidly oversized loudspeakers and who doesn't have many other interests or aspirations in life. The amis moustache is the hideous, wispy, weak mustache they grow as a result of either trying to look manly, or just being unkempt. And this is the first time I've seen a AAA studio have the amis moustache on their game's main character. Good for them, but for me it's enough reason to not touch this game with a 100 foot pole.

It comes across to me as more of a "guy who can't really grow facial hair tries to anyway." There's waaaaaaaaay too much patchiness going on. They clearly could have gone for a more stubbled look. The hair itself looks decent; it's the application that all janky.

 

[Dragonlayer]

And have they finally learnt how to make decent facial hair yet?

I have no interest in playing Andromeda, but I want to take this opportunity to express my disgust for how hideous the male main character's(?) facial hair looks.

Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY GOING FOR HERE??? This guy has the hair of a 50's greaser, the armor of a badass space soldier, and the facial hair of a guy you'd have serious second thoughts about if you were buying a used car from them. Fuck me, SHAVE IT FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!!!!

Cultural lesson: here in Finland we have a term called "amis mustache", which has nothing to do with the amish. The slang term "amis" refers to a man around 16-19 years old who's obsessed with cars, drinking, getting stupidly oversized loudspeakers and who doesn't have many other interests or aspirations in life. The amis moustache is the hideous, wispy, weak mustache they grow as a result of either trying to look manly, or just being unkempt. And this is the first time I've seen a AAA studio have the amis moustache on their game's main character. Good for them, but for me it's enough reason to not touch this game with a 100 foot pole.

MY EYES!!!

Ugh, that is just some downright pug-fugly scruff right there! In England that would be considered "bum-fluff", the kind of nearly transparent, "coming or going?" attempt at growing facial hair by juveniles in order to cover the squeaky voice and sweaty armpits of not-quite-manhood-yet. And while there could be a good larf in the novelty of playing as wispy-tached version of the Squeaky Voiced Teen from the Simpsons, I consider it essential for a game to allow me to recreate my luscious face covering; if not in full, then at least *something*. To be fair, this is probably what the developers intended to be standard-issue heroic stubble, and if the previous games were anything to go by, there'll be a (limited) range of options on offer: I just hope it looks better then the tache-and-sideburns combo my Commander Shepard had to apply every morning with a black felt-tip pen!

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

MY EYES!!!

Ugh, that is just some downright pug-fugly scruff right there! In England that would be considered "bum-fluff", the kind of nearly transparent, "coming or going?" attempt at growing facial hair by juveniles in order to cover the squeaky voice and sweaty armpits of not-quite-manhood-yet. And while there could be a good larf in the novelty of playing as wispy-tached version of the Squeaky Voiced Teen from the Simpsons, I consider it essential for a game to allow me to recreate my luscious face covering; if not in full, then at least *something*. To be fair, this is probably what the developers intended to be standard-issue heroic stubble, and if the previous games were anything to go by, there'll be a (limited) range of options on offer: I just hope it looks better then the tache-and-sideburns combo my Commander Shepard had to apply every morning with a black felt-tip pen!

It only becomes both more laughable and gag-worthy when the launch trailer tries to frame this guy like an ultra-super badass space mofo, perhaps best illustrated at the 1:07 mark.


Just that thumbnail alone is a magical combination of unintentional comedy, cringeworthy embarrassment and slight revulsion. And thanks for the image of the squeaky voiced teen's voice coming out of Commander Shepard, I won't be able to shake that from my mind for quite a while, and now I'm trying to keep my voice down while giggling by myself at work.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

The 'discussions' around ME:A make for quite bleak reading, but it's worth remembering it's a vocal minority whining/grousing, and being from BioWare it represents a kind of horridly perfect storm. This clearly isn't just about ethi--- sorry, animation quality.

As for ME:A, me, and diversity? Frankly, I'm offended and enraged and apparently triggered by its lack of diversity... Or, rather, its lack of player choice. Apparently I'll need to add Cora to the list of Ashley, Jack, Miranda, and Cassandra to the list of female characters I'm forced to play as a [usually boring, relatively poorly voice acted] guy in order to romance.

DAII had it right as far as RPG's are concerned: don't make the party members heterosexual, or homosexual, or bisexual - make them Hawkesexual... That way no one misses out (the precious snowflakes terrified of diversity/change included).

And no, not even Dorian in DA:I needed to be exclusively gay, given his arc would've worked exactly the same had he been bi/pan but have biased towards men (Solas being exclusive to elves is fine, because, y'know, he's a bit of a racist nutjob... albeit a brilliantly written and engaging one).

 

[Terminal Blue]

He accidentally ALL of the Chantry.

 

[McElroy]

Cultural lesson: here in Finland we have a term called "amis mustache"

ah shit, now I can't unsee it. Kiitti vitusti

 

[Dragonlayer]

MY EYES!!!

Ugh, that is just some downright pug-fugly scruff right there! In England that would be considered "bum-fluff", the kind of nearly transparent, "coming or going?" attempt at growing facial hair by juveniles in order to cover the squeaky voice and sweaty armpits of not-quite-manhood-yet. And while there could be a good larf in the novelty of playing as wispy-tached version of the Squeaky Voiced Teen from the Simpsons, I consider it essential for a game to allow me to recreate my luscious face covering; if not in full, then at least *something*. To be fair, this is probably what the developers intended to be standard-issue heroic stubble, and if the previous games were anything to go by, there'll be a (limited) range of options on offer: I just hope it looks better then the tache-and-sideburns combo my Commander Shepard had to apply every morning with a black felt-tip pen!

It only becomes both more laughable and gag-worthy when the launch trailer tries to frame this guy like an ultra-super badass space mofo, perhaps best illustrated at the 1:07 mark.


Just that thumbnail alone is a magical combination of unintentional comedy, cringeworthy embarrassment and slight revulsion. And thanks for the image of the squeaky voiced teen's voice coming out of Commander Shepard, I won't be able to shake that from my mind for quite a while, and now I'm trying to keep my voice down while giggling by myself at work.

Oh I wouldn't react that harshly....because I am a raging ME fanboy whose opinion can safely be discounted in this regard because whether it's the dynamic camera work, the rapid switching of shots, good lighting or the blessings of the God-Emperor, wimpy-stubble Ryder didn't look half-bad in that trailer. There is an almost adorable reaction to the 1:07 mark as the teenage squad leader looks all serious and grimly determined, but as said I am a raging ME fanboy I think the trailer is pretty damn cool!

Squeaky Voiced Teen Shepard definitely needs to be a thing though.

"Here's your thermal clip Anderson! Ooops it fell in the engine coil, I'll get it out. Oww! Owwwww! Owwwww! Owwwwwwwwww! Ah, here it is sir!"
"I don't want it."
"But this comes out of my credits! If I had a girlfriend she'd kill me!"

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

Same character. Still not seeing the Shrek comparison. Like, at all.

I can see it. I mean, it's less a problem with the character's design and more a problem with the animations. She doesn't always look like Shrek, but every now and then her animation gets janky and wham, Shrek-face.

I wouldn't have noticed it unless it was pointed out, but now that it's been pointed out I can't unsee it.

I think people are confusing green skinned characters here.

Spoiler: Me, personally, i think she looks sssssmokin'

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

He accidentally ALL of the Chantry.

I lol'd

Cultural lesson: here in Finland we have a term called "amis mustache", which has nothing to do with the amish.

In Australia, we call this phenomenon "bum fluff."

I think people are confusing green skinned characters here.

WHY DO YOU TORTURE ME SO

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Cultural lesson: here in Finland we have a term called "amis mustache", which has nothing to do with the amish.

In Australia, we call this phenomenon "bum fluff."

Just out of curiosity, does it have further specific implications attached to it like "amis moustache", or is it just a general term? I get that the "bum" part refers to either homelessness or a literal bum, but does it go beyond that?

 

[Dizchu]

Then explain to me what a gay character brings that an ambiguous orientation character brings to a game in terms of narrative beyond them simply being "lazy" writing.

You can replace "gay character" with "straight character" and make the exact same point.

Note that I'm not saying including gay characters is lazy, simply that in terms of writing, I find it boring and ground that's been tread far too often, especially in recent years. What does the story of a gay kid being ostracized bring that the story of say, a kid inhabited by a demon or even something as simple as just being from a family that has different values being ostracized doesn't?

Stories about people being ostracised for having "different values" are everywhere though, look at most Disney films.

I have only ever played a handful of games explicitly about the struggles of LGBT people and they were all obscure indie titles. Stories about demonic possession are a lot more common.

That's because white guy with brown hair can be anything without it mattering to anyone. It's because white guy with brown hair is sorta the Clint Eastwood of gaming. You can put him in any situation and nobody gives a shit about him because he's just your avatar in the gameworld the majority of the time. Sure, it's lazy here too, but it's lazy in the way that is safe, and it's simpler to have a "safe" avatar than it is to not have white dude with brown hair. Allows more space that is socially acceptable.

That's exactly the problem though and I'm not convinced that it's even true, I think publishers are just making assumptions and as a result churn out the same thing over and over again. This is exactly what the discussion is about, "safe" decisions are not interesting and end up restricting expression. The problem isn't white guys with brown hair, it's their ubiquity.

And can we stop bringing up Infinite? It's a game that IS a dudebro shooter, I don't care how often anyone tries to say it isn't.

Yes I know it is. However, it is also a first-person game focused primarily on Elizabeth. Now I love games like Doom that proudly show the protagonist kicking ass on the box art but it was clear that Irrational intended to have Bioshock Infinite go in a different direction. I think it is an awful game but nevertheless, they compromised their artistic vision to satisfy publishers and I'm not convinced that it was a necessary decision.

As for LiS, it's more one of those games that got made at the right time, Telltale hadn't gone completely off the deepend with their crap and weren't fully trying to write original stories in established settings and their engine was still being praised. And I still don't believe that piece of crap sold as much as it did. I largely consider it an exception and a perfect storm of luck more than anything.

According to the developer, publishers tried hard to get Life is Strange's female protagonist changed to a male protagonist and Square Enix were the only publisher who didn't. The quality of the game doesn't matter, the point is that it sold well and found a niche audience.

And yet again, Overwatch. Of course. The stereotype game of stereotypes. Not saying it's a bad example, just that it is ridiculously shallow to the point that the majority of the fan-art, both porn and non-porn that came out before the game launched, has become canon in some way or another. In terms of characters, the game doesn't have much depth or sense of adventure when it comes to characters. They are what they are, the rest is window-dressing in a multiplayer title.

I never suggested that it was particularly deep, I just said that the cast of characters is purposefully diverse and the response to this was very positive even if there are controversies here and there (though interestingly enough they're due to fan backlash instead of the "damn SJWs" insisting that it's offensive). In fact it's had a lot of appreciation from women and the LGBT community in a way other shooters do not, even if it only amounts to cosplaying and fanart.

I believe I covered this when I said "even when compared to non-white female characters". I know how few characters there are. I'm just saying that we need more gay villains that don't play the "I'm gay so you have to feel some manner of pity for my choices in life" card. And we need less gay heroes/randos that play the "I'm gay, therefore you need to feel sorry/admiration for me and my choices in life" card. We need more characters that aren't defined by their gayness or lack thereof. We need more non-straight characters that are actually called out on any bullshit they try to pull without it being the Evilbad McTerribad option. Hell, I'd even settle for more characters that become your best friend like Garrus and the way many JRPGs handle non-sexual relationships between members of the opposite sex.

I really don't think it's as big an issue as you think it is. The thing is, we have yet to reach a point where the stigma against LGBT people has gone away therefore it's to be expected that many depictions of LGBT people, particularly villians, would paint them sympathetically. Does it get repetitive? Sure, I think we need to get beyond this point. But you get beyond it by encouraging a greater variety of characters instead of insisting that any non-white LGBT character needs to "have a point" to justify not just replacing them with a token dudebro.

Call it hypocritical if you want when it comes to my views on the white guy with brown hair debate, but I like to think there's a difference between a texture and writing.

Well yes, as much as I bemoan the whole "brown-haired white guy" thing I know there are obvious differences between Solid Snake and Nathan Drake and Marcus Fenix etc. Actually my favourite brown-haired white male character recently was Henry from Firewatch, who is an overweight middle-aged man and there's surprisingly few of those in video games.

And that's what I'm saying as well. Don't go looking for diversity initially, just let it happen as it happens. And a request to not throw a fit if it doesn't appear is all I've ever asked for. I mean, just look at how people are now treating Cora for a fucking haircut. A haircut and general style that I still don't really get(like seriously, just cut your hair short or shave your head, quit half-assing it).

But the thing is, things don't just "happen". If you look at some of the landmark depictions of women, LGBT people, non-whites etc. they were conscious decisions and have since paved the way for future games. Every advancement needs an initial push and there might be a backlash, but many of the most controversial decisions when it comes to characters or even gameplay and design have since influenced a ton of games.

As far as I'm concerned, let developers push for diverse characters even if it causes tension with their publishers and audiences. I like it when artists take risks and yes, not every risky decision pays off. But a lot of them do.

 

[Nature Guardian]

As someone who never liked the Mass Effect series to begin with, I must say that it's confusing to suddenly see the internet agree with me.

Just as long as we can agree the game is badly programmed, has boring characters and/or a boring story and mediocre gameplay.

(Just as long as nobody claims the game sucks because it doesn't have enough straight white males and skimpy idealized babes.)

 

[Nature Guardian]

I dunno. The animations are surely wonky and the gifs about it are hilarious.

My problem is actually how even a shitty videogame animation is now turning into a SJW/alt-right/feminazi/whiteknight internet war.

What does that even have to do with anything? So if the asari girl had huge boobs and a more perfect face, her animations suddenly wouldn't have been poorly made? So if all the npcs were white males, suddenly all the animations issues would have disappeared?

Well, to be fair, in the current day and age, having a game which "Pushes diversity", is in itself making a political statement. And a controversial one at that.

You can't really say "This is how we should be!" and then "But pls don't disagree" with a video game. They're media, not tumblr posts.

If you make games which feature controversial politics, you really only have it coming when people disagree with those politics.


Imagine if you will, a game comes out, and it paints "Diversity" in a negative light. There'd be a shitstorm about it.

The problem is that adding non-white characters and non-sexualized females should NOT ever be a "controversial political statement".

 

[CaitSeith]

I heard the same kind of comments when Mass Effect 3 launched (before the ending controversy became big). Nothing new under the sun.

 

[Redryhno]

So I don't really know what you want.

Your newest example is from a game that was largely panned for multiple reasons - some of which include the destruction of returning characters - nearly a decade ago dude. Don't you think that might give you half a clue of what it is I want? It's the same as what I said I wanted, I want more non-straight characters to actually have more to them than being non-straight, non-white, non-anything.

Give me more Olivier Lenheim, a guy that has at best, an ambiguous sexuality in that he'll flirt with literally anyone he finds attractive, guy's still a hero, it just doesn't become an issue beyond some people feeling uncomfortable that he's comfortable enough to flirt and compliment everyone. Give me more Poison, someone that is an actual villain in-universe while actually being competent and doesn't expect favors because of her pre/post-opness(I know more than a few Escapist self-admitted transfemales have said they have no interest in going full-on operation for whatever reason, so please don't bring that up as an arguement, I've had it too many times to want to waste time on it again). Give me more characters that don't fall into the "I'm gay(or whatever minority equivalent is applicable) and therefore whatever happens to me or because of me and my actions is not my fault" writing trap. Hell, even as much as I despise LiS, it at least made an attempt early on to call Chloe on her bull and Max sorta had second thoughts about how she was using her powers, before it went headfirst into the rabbit hole of "nah, I'm a good person, it's ok to do whatever I want". Give me more flamboyant villains that aren't immediately turned into gay caricatures and fantasies(though this is much less a game dev thing and more fanbase bullshittery).

Also, you do know that Ganon isn't "male-identifying" right? He's actually male...