Ditching someone who friend zones you (Edited)

[Vegosiux]

And while it may have sexist roots it's a completely different beast today.

I don't see how its a different thing today.....its conflating weakness with being female

At it's core yes, but I'd wager most people when calling another a pussy aren't making the feminine connection or implication, it has essentially become its own "word".

Kind of like how pussy for some reason now means vagina. At one point there was probably a reason for it, now few who use the word actually know and are using it for it's original intent.

Funnily enough, first time I got the "pussy" thing elaborated on, the person doing the elaboration likened it to "scaredy cat". As in, "Don't hide under the couch the moment something startles you."

 

[Crayven]

And while it may have sexist roots it's a completely different beast today.

I don't see how its a different thing today.....its conflating weakness with being female

Also calling someone a dick is doing just the same for men, being stupid, cruel, selfish or anything else negative people would like to use the word for with being a man.

 

[Hieronymusgoa]

After a long time (about two years) where i tried to manage my feelings for a close friend and coulnd't, we agreed on not seeing each other for a longer time i would declare to be over when I feel fit.
Before that we both talked a few times about what and if we could work out as a couple together but in the end I had a lot more feelings for him than he for me. So we never even came to trying that actually, just discussed it. He got over that quick, I didn't.

I know from experience that a time off mostly works for me to go back to being friends and not feeling resent or such things afterwards. The only important thing is that you need to find a state where you realise, yeah I would like to see him or her again but I don't feel anything more than a very small tinge of the old feelings for the person. If that state comes up, go back and be friends, there is a reason why you liked that person so much, keep that friendship. But if the person was "just" a date for some time it might be better to break it off entirely since it makes it much easier for you and the work and pain it takes to get over your feelings properly are just worth put into a very good friendship you already had before the friendzone thingy started.

 

[SquidSponge]

On-topic:
I've found that it's better to part ways (just be sure to do so on good terms). The fact is that once the declaration is made there's usually no going back. The "friendzone", regardless of what a certain website's myriad creative redefinitions say, is just a classic interpersonal impasse - two people trying to operate together but find their objectives now differ, in a mutually incompatible manner. Consider carefully whether you a) are able to, b) can benefit at all from, and c) want to, salvage anything from the wreckage. Preferably in that order.

With varying degrees of relevance:
a) In the sphere of dating, both men and women get their arses kicked by double standards. The most famous one is the "slutty vs. frigid" paradox (never really understood why experience is a bad thing myself, but hey). The one I think is worth detailing here is the contradiction that if you judge people by looks alone you're a shallow arsehole, but if you first try to get to know a person you're a dishonest arsehole. Fun times. I prefer the latter - it always seemed wiser to find out if the other party is compatible first - that saves people getting hurt by breaking up a relationship that was never going to work (but dramatically increases the risk of the "friendzone" conundrum). But then, this approach has not really been effective for me. And, to be fair, I've seen successful couples who I never would've guessed would be compatible. Either way, I wish you luck finding the balance.

b) Before trying any advice - remember different cultures have different attitudes. The "direct approach" someone mentioned earlier? Completely unacceptable in my neck o' the woods (oh how I'd love to be able to do that) - here it's the single most efficient way to be branded a creep, but I'm certain it has better reception elsewhere (I think the USA views it more favourably?).

c) Don't worry about the haters using this thread as a place to declare their manifesto, "if you do/say [action/word x] then you're a [expletive y]". They didn't get the memo - a forum is a place for discussion, not arrogation (I wish they'd save that for Tumblr their blog). Do what you think is right, and to hell with anyone who ascribes paranoid malevolent intentions to you (it took me an embarrassingly long time to figure this out myself).

d) Not sure about the etymology of the word "pussy", but I suspect its use in this context is less a sinister plot to associate femininity with cowardice, and more to do with the semi-obsolete word "pusillanimous", which bears a more than passing resemblance and means almost exactly the same thing. In this case the prefix "pussil-" is derived from Latin meaning "petty". It turns out not everything is about gender.

 

[MisterGobbles]

how 'bout you don't make friends just for the sake of sleeping with them? Is that the best quality they have? That they could potentially have sex with you? if so then you're a shitty friend and should probably cut ties to spare them your toxic attitude.

ps. you is general.

I just never, at all, understood this sentiment. No one does this. You meet someone, start off as friends, and one person develops feelings while the other doesn't. The notion also conflates sex and romance and just seems to entirely misunderstand and oversimplify everything.

Yeah, this exactly. It's possible for you to be romantically interested in someone right off that bat, for sure, but it's just never happened for me yet. I always have to know the person fairly well before any sort of true feelings develop. And a lot of the time, the other person doesn't feel the same way. Everyone gets friendzoned sometimes; it's no one's fault most of the time (unless one party was being led on, and even that can be unintentional).

Some people just don't get that there's more to having a relationship than sex. Making an intense emotional connection with someone is similarly satisfying to anyone who isn't a psychopath, and being denied that can hurt sometimes. But having failed attempts at obtaining a BF/GF result in actual friends is rewarding too, so I'd recommend that in a lot of situations. Most people who make good partners make good normal friends, and vice versa. But it's also a VERY bad idea in a lot of other situations. Very much a situational type deal.

 

[sumanoskae]

So the first thing I did when I opened this forum was to check if it was locked, just thought I'd mention that.

I think it depends entirely on the specifics of the situation and the people involved; when it comes to emotional shit like this, there really is no way to circumvent the details.

For example: If the relationship is genuinely unequal, with one party being insensitive towards the others feelings and either refusing to definitively commit one way or the other, or demanding an emotional response from someone that they just don't have, then the relationship is unhealthy and should be ended anyway.

If the relationship is otherwise healthy, and both parties are respectful and understanding of the other persons feelings, even if they don't share them, then I think that it would be foolish to abandon the friendship. Good friends are hard to come by, and if you truly care about someone, you won't be bitter towards them for something they have no control over.

But there may be even more extenuating circumstances.

Sometimes it is genuinely painful to be around someone you deeply love, but know that you can never have. It isn't about being bitter, it'a about being entrenched in impossible desires. You want love from the person so badly that the relationship almost becomes addictive; you start hanging on to their every word, you go to great lengths to fix minute problems, they have power over you weather they want to or not. In this case, getting distance is really the only option; you have to move on at some point.

People like to generalize, they want simple solutions to complex problems.

 

[mecegirl]

A friend of mine recently sorta kinda avoided the whole "friendzoning" thing.

She met a guy who is friends with some of her friends while out at with her friends at a bar. And she wonders if perhaps him liking her started because gets chatty while drunk, and maybe he took her willingness to talk to him at all the wrong way. She didn't think much of talking to him because at the time the guy told her that he had his eyes on another one of their mutual friends. And after that first encounter he would always try to start conversations with her whenever they were in the same space, and she talked to him because she felt that he was nice enough, but she wasn't interested in him romantically. But one Saturday night at the bar (unknown to her at the time her friends were trying to hook them up because they are both single) she noticed that he was trying to talk to her more than any of the other people in the group.

After that he asked her to go for walks with him, and she declined both times. He asked if she wanted to go to a social function at her old high school with him (He is currently a teacher at her old high school.) And later asked her if she wanted to go with him to see the transformers movie. At first she said yes to both occasions, thinking that they were just gonna hang out. But after talking with family and friends(who were like, are you sure you want to go somewhere with this guy. he probably likes you but you just want to be friends and that sounds like a sorta date) decided to decline both offers.

In the end she decided that it would probably be better to only hang out with him when all of their friends were present until she knew for sure what he wanted. And after another night at the bar she started to notice the signs that he liked her. She didn't say anything to his face about it because he never officially said that he wanted a romantic relationship(Which is something I've noticed with some guys now days. Some don't ask you for a date, they ask to 'hang out'. I guess they figure that its a low stress situation for both parties, but really it just muddies the water later). And she had been in situations where she's preemptively told guy that she guessed were interested that she wasn't. And it almost always ends up with them blowing up at her and accusing her of being stuck up and a *****(even in cases where later her friends admitted that the guy in question was interested but hadn't worked up the courage to ask her yet). So she mentions to one of her female friends that she isn't interested, and that is how the guy finds out.

But now the boyfriend of the female friend she talks to is mad at her for not directly turning that guy down. Even though he never really asked out on a real date. And the sorta dates he asked her out on she didn't go with him to. In the end their interactions boil down to talking to each other at a bar a few times. I still can't understand how she would be expected to turn down a person who never explicitly expresses romantic interest besides turning down invitations to hang out. Which she did. But I guess she was just supposed to not talk to the guy at all. But isn't that like really rude to just ignore someone like that?

 

[Vegosiux]

But now the boyfriend of the female friend she talks to is mad at her for not directly turning that guy down. Even though he never really asked out on a real date. And the sorta dates he asked her out on she didn't go with him to. In the end their interactions boil down to talking to each other at a bar a few times. I still can't understand how she would be expected to turn down a person who never explicitly expresses romantic interest besides turning down invitations to hang out. Which she did. But I guess she was just supposed to not talk to the guy at all. But isn't that like really rude to just ignore someone like that?

What's "a real date"? I mean, is it necessary that "Hey, I kind of have a romantic interest in you" needs to be stated for it to be a "real" date?

I mean, it would have helped, yeah. I personally think that two simple rules can really make the whole thing easier:

1) Always be clear about what you're getting at
2) If you aren't sure what the other person is getting at, ask them.

 

[Loonyyy]

First off, before I tell you how to escape, we're going to look into why you got put in the friendzone.

Take a look at what this man is doing: he's balancing. Relationships are a lot like that. When you meet a girl, you're walking that razor's edge between friend and boyfriend material. How you present yourself, how you speak, how you communicate without words, all of that and more factor into what side you fall into. How do you carry yourself? Do you walk with your head held high? Where do you keep your drink at a party: is it in front of your chest, acting as a barrier, or is it down at your side? How do you sit? Do you sit hunched up and timid or stretched out and relaxed?

With that in mind, let's get into some steps for escaping shall we?

Step 1: Make your feelings perfectly clear. "I want you, I don't want to be your friend, I want something more." Be 100% direct, no bull, don't beat around the bush, put it all on the table. If you truly want her as a woman then do not settle for being "just friends."

Step 2: If she says no, or she's hesitant, DROP HER. Meet other women. You need to be willing to drop it at a moment's notice, no skin off your back. If she knows that you need her, she's free to take advantage of you and do whatever the hell she wants. This is bad news.

Step 3: In this "separation," meet other women! Get to know new people! Pick up a hobby and better yourself! I highly recommend studying up on body language in the meantime, as it will help your game in the long run, and if you're not familiar with it, practice being playful and seductive.

Step 4 (Optional): If you feel like you want to reconnect later on down the line, make plans to do something. Let her know that you're going to do it regardless, her coming along has no sway whatsoever.

I'll leave you with Coach Corey.

Good luck.

I think we should all have expected bad pickup artist advice to come along sometime.

I just didn't expect it to be so singularly useless, and such a surefire series of instructions on being unlikeable.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Stopping those feelings is not that different from demanding that the other person start having those feelings, correct? Both are just as ridiculous to demand of a person.

That's razor sharp. Effortlessly exposes the hypocrisy in the prevailing narrative.

As a female, I don't agree with those whose think this whole issue can be simply relegated to just wanting to have sex with someone. It's more than that.

Sure, friendship is a relationship but it's not exactly special. What you do with one friend, you're very likely to do with the other. In most cases. And while that's all fine and dandy, there's nothing especially significant in my mind. For one . there's the intimacy factor.

Tell me straight up if you're as intimate in an emotional way with your girlfriend/boyfriend as you are with your other friends.

Even though it was a comedy thing on American Dad, I heard a line that seems to sum stuff up.

"I have friends."

For me, that says all or nothing. I bet the average person wants all or nothing in their lives. Because anything else is settling.

Well said. I think that boiling the difference down to "fucking or not fucking" is laughably naive and cynical. It denies the profound differences the 2 kinds of relationships can hold, and is way too dismissive of and malicious regarding another persons feelings. But they're just "butthurt" right? Serves them right, the fedora wearing idiots.

 

[Vegosiux]

I think we should all have expected bad pickup artist advice to come along sometime.

I just didn't expect it to be so singularly useless, and such a surefire series of instructions on being unlikeable.

I don't see how "Be completely, 100% honest about what you want right off the bat" is "bad pickup artist advice". In fact, I think that's the most sensible and reasonable thing that can be said about it all - tell people to be honest with themselves and their romantic interests. For the life of me, I don't see what's bad about that.

Now, unless somehow pickup artists became honest people when I wasn't looking, I didn't get the memo.

 

[Tarfeather]

Personal life experience? If they friend zone you specifically(that is, they do not see how you could be valuable as a partner), they're not worth having as a friend either. A woman who I get along with very well, and yet who wouldn't even consider extending the friendship into a relationship, is yet something I have to come across. That said, it's entirely possible, this is just my personal experience, and I actually hope I'll get to find some female friends beside of my significant other some day.

 

[JimB]

I?ve seen some say that ditching someone after you find out they don?t want to have a relationship with you is for the best since it will end up just making you bitter. Others say that you should stick it and let the feeling go away since you?ll still have a friend afterward.

So how do you feel about this?

There's this woman I know I very badly wanted to date. I waited too long and I missed my opportunity. By the time I made my move, she had already started dating the man she would marry. I was the best man at their ceremony. I don't regret a moment of the friendship I had with her, because all the traits that made me want to be her lover--her insight, her humor, her interests, her compassion, the past experiences we've bonded over--are still available to me as her friend. The only thing I don't get is a physical relationship, and honestly, I got a perfectly good right hand if all I need is some ejaculation.

As a general rule, I would personally suspect that anyone who can't stand to be around a woman because he's not currently allowed to fuck her is someone who is indeed better off not trying to be friends, because I don't think such a person likes or respects that woman enough to actually be her friend. He doesn't seem to care about all the things they can offer one another without romantic entanglements, and he doesn't seem to care about honoring her preferences for happiness. He mostly seems to just want her to be some subordinate fucktoy.

 

[Vegosiux]

As a general rule, I would personally suspect that anyone who can't stand to be around a woman because he's not currently allowed to fuck her is someone who is indeed better off not trying to be friends.

Because, romantic pursuits are only about "fucking".

Come on.

It's the cuddling that's the really awesome part of a physical relationship.

People who are just after sex generally don't obsess about "friendzone", they just file another name into the "nope" column.

 

[Lilani]

Personal life experience? If they friend zone you specifically(that is, they do not see how you could be valuable as a partner), they're not worth having as a friend either. A woman who I get along with very well, and yet who wouldn't even consider extending the friendship into a relationship, is yet something I have to come across. That said, it's entirely possible, this is just my personal experience, and I actually hope I'll get to find some female friends beside of my significant other some day.

"See how valuable you could be as a partner?" I'm afraid that isn't how it works. I've had two friends I had to turn down, and about neither of them did I think they couldn't be valuable as partners. What I thought was I didn't see them as potential partners FOR ME. Believe it or not, just because you think you're compatible with someone doesn't mean they are automatically going to feel the same. That doesn't mean they don't think you should be with ANYBODY, they just for whateve reason aren't into you that way. That isn't your fault, and that isn't THEIR fault.

Not everybody is compatible. For example, do you feel romantically inclined to every single woman you encounter? No? Then why expect that of somebody else?

 

[JimB]

Because romantic pursuits are only about "fucking."

No, they are also about all the benefits I made a very short but I hope representative list of in the first paragraph of my post. The only thing I want from a lover than I can't get from a friend will be crotch-related interactions; anything else is there. Support, emotional intimacy, companionship, all that. Friends can do all those things. Hell, I've even cuddled with friends before, though admittedly rarely.

If you think there is something lovers can give that friends can't that is not strictly physical, sensual pleasure, then please, let me know what it is.

 

[Tarfeather]

The whole principle of the "friend zone" is silly to me.

Having a friend is better than having a girlfriend/boyfriend

in a practical sense what (Besides the potential for sex) is the difference between a friend and a girlfriend?

I think it's a matter of attention and priority, really. I agree with you, having a very good friend whom you talk to daily, whom you miss when they aren't around for a week.. that's a lot like a relationship. But a lot of people seem to be incapable of such deep friendships, or indeed relationships. They really need that "in love" feeling to even feel that close to somebody else.

if someone is "friendzoning" you, the only thing that means is that they don't want to have sex. right?

Whenever I've felt "friend-zoned", it was due to the other person giving me very little attention/affection, so no, it's not necessarily about sex.

If your girlfriend or boyfriend isn't more amazing than a mere friend, I would say that your relationship sucks.

The opposite can also be the case, your friends might just be that amazing.

From what I'm reading here, most guys leave if they can't get sex so... no friend no zone :/

Nah, I've witnessed the opposite situation as well, where the girl gives up on the friendship because she can't get sex. So really, it seems to generally be "people value sex over friendship, nevermind romantic relationships", which is a little sad.

As a female, I don't agree with those whose think this whole issue can be simply relegated to just wanting to have sex with someone. It's more than that.

Sure, friendship is a relationship but it's not exactly special. What you do with one friend, you're very likely to do with the other. In most cases. And while that's all fine and dandy, there's nothing especially significant in my mind. For one . there's the intimacy factor.

I agree with your conclusion, but not with the way you get there. A relationship is more than just sex, as proven by the fact that a relationship without sex is possible. But it's certainly also possible to share a high level of emotional intimacy with friends, it's not like that is something reserved for relationships.

The asshole thing to do is neither accepting it won't be more than a friendship nor breaking it off. The asshole thing to do is, even after you've gotten rejected, to keep pursuing the other party even if under the guise of friendship. That's the point where the friend-zone turns toxic, not before.

Sounds more "desperate" than "asshole" to me. Also a bit generalized. Rejection isn't eternal or final, use your own judgement to determine whether you should give up or not. The last person to reject me now happens to be my girlfriend, just saying.

Who would you rather be with: a man who carries himself with pride and confidence or a man who is more than happy to be life's doormat? Presenting yourself is great and all, but if you fall apart under pressure or when things get rough, then the cracks will start to show.

You're kinda funny, you know that? I think most women will go for option #3: Guy who actually is compatible personality-wise, regardless of being confident/doormat.

Game - How you carry yourself, how you present yourself, how you interact with others. There's no "manipulation" about it, unless you put a gun to their head and plan on outright making demands, which this post wasn't about doing in the slightest.

Can't stop laughing. ^^ Simple question: If the first thing you think about is "How can I present myself to impress this person?", rather than "I kinda like her, I wonder if we have any interests in common I could talk to her about?", what kind of person does that make you?

I don't see how "Be completely, 100% honest about what you want right off the bat" is "bad pickup artist advice".

lol I think he was referring to this part:

Step 3: In this "separation," meet other women! Get to know new people! Pick up a hobby and better yourself! I highly recommend studying up on body language in the meantime, as it will help your game in the long run, and if you're not familiar with it, practice being playful and seductive.

Which admittedly is pretty hilariously offensive and useless. Agree that being honest from the start is a good idea, though.

 

[Tarfeather]

Just a heads up, don't take me too seriously. I'm just rambling.

I've had two friends I had to turn down, and about neither of them did I think they couldn't be valuable as partners. What I thought was I didn't see them as potential partners FOR ME. Believe it or not, just because you think you're compatible with someone doesn't mean they are automatically going to feel the same.

Well, what kind of person are you? Do you have many friends? If so, I can see how that'd work. But I have at most 4 people I'd consider friends at any given time, which means I need a lot of attention from each of them. If a woman doesn't like me enough to want a relationship, she probably doesn't like me enough to dedicate a lot of time and energy to me, or at least that's my experience so far. I may very well be proven wrong.

That doesn't mean they don't think you should be with ANYBODY, they just for whateve reason aren't into you that way. That isn't your fault, and that isn't THEIR fault.

Not everybody is compatible. For example, do you feel romantically inclined to every single woman you encounter? No? Then why expect that of somebody else?

Not every single woman I encounter, but certainly every woman I developed a friendship with(again, so far). That's because in a partner I care more about brains than looks, which is also what I look for in friends.

I'm honestly curious, can you describe what it was that made you not interested in these men as partners, but still make you care about them a lot as friends? It's just hard for me to imagine, that's all.

 

[Vegosiux]

No, they are also about all the benefits I made a very short but I hope representative list of in the first paragraph of my post. The only thing I want from a lover than I can't get from a friend will be crotch-related interactions; anything else is there. Support, emotional intimacy, companionship, all that. Friends can do all those things. Hell, I've even cuddled with friends before, though admittedly rarely.

In my experience, a romantic relationship isn't an "upgrade" to friendship, but a different kind of relationship, in regards to the commitment it takes especially.

Sleeping with someone who's in a relationship with someone else, and being in a relationship with them are two entirely different things, too. One involves hiding in the closet or quickly running off in the morning, or getting a stamp of permission from their SO ("open relationships" are a thing at all ages, after all); the other involves actually belonging there without there being any fine print clauses.

Different person, different experience, who'd have thunk it?

Of course, I apologize for daring assume your experience and your stance of this is not the one and only possible perspective. I shall show myself right after I answer the next one.

If you think there is something lovers can give that friends can't that is not strictly physical, sensual pleasure, then please, let me know what it is.

Being their next of kin.

 

[Lilani]

Well, what kind of person are you? Do you have many friends? If so, I can see how that'd work. But I have at most 4 people I'd consider friends at any given time, which means I need a lot of attention from each of them. If a woman doesn't like me enough to want a relationship, she probably doesn't like me enough to dedicate a lot of time and energy to me, or at least that's my experience so far. I may very well be proven wrong.

I suppose I have many friends, but I certainly don't expect a lot of them. That's an...unfriendly way to think of people, to be honest. I'll hang out with them if they ask and I'll ask them to hang out with me if I'm out, but I certainly don't rely on them for a certain amount of attention, and nor do I EXPECT anything of the sort from them. They should hang out with me because they want to, not because I expect it of them.

That doesn't mean they don't think you should be with ANYBODY, they just for whateve reason aren't into you that way. That isn't your fault, and that isn't THEIR fault.

Not every single woman I encounter, but certainly every woman I developed a friendship with(again, so far). That's because in a partner I care more about brains than looks, which is also what I look for in friends.

I'm honestly curious, can you describe what it was that made you not interested in these men as partners, but still make you care about them a lot as friends? It's just hard for me to imagine, that's all.

That is a really unfair way to go about "friendships." I also care more about brains and demeanor than looks, but to expect them to be open to a relationship from the word go is not only selfish but just arrogant.

As for what made me not interested in them, for the first one I was pursuing another guy at the time, and while I recognized a bit of a "click" between us I was more infatuated with the other. I made my choice, and chose to tell him flat out before my relationship with the other guy became "official" because I thought that would be a cruel and unconclusive way to reject him.

For the second guy, I had no boyfriend and wasn't pursuing anybody else, but while I thought he was fun to hang out with I just didn't feel romantically attracted to him. I assume you have guy friends (and I assume you're a straight male), you know how you like hanging out with them but don't feel romantically attracted? That's how I felt about him. Fun, but not somebody I'd consider a future with.