Do all women like jerks? No (a rant)

[Gamblerjoe]

Not a lot of things can be summed up as black and white. a lot of women try to stress that with this issue. they deny that it is the case for them, while acknowledging that the misconception is based in reason (to seem more reasonable to the people reading.)

The fact of the matter is, almost every single guy who at least attempts to pick up women by being nice to them has been turned down in favor of a douche multiple times. There is a reason for this. some of the douches realize what they are doing, and some dont, but here is what is happening.

First, my exclaimer. i am not trying to suggest that all humans are slaves to our natural instincts. we have intelligence, culture, civilization, and all sorts of stuff going on, along with habits that are reflective of our position in the food chain and whatnot. what i will say though, is that without intelligence, decency and empathy, default human behavior is to pretty much just act like a cross between Eric Cartman and a dingo. As we all know, there are some stuid people out there, and there are some assholes out there.

What im getting at, is that asshole behavior is attractive on a subconscious level. It goes both ways. the survival of our offspring doesnt depend on a womans ability to breast feed, yet our brains are hard wired for males to be attracted to women with large breasts. likewise, women's brains are hardwired to be attracted to alpha-male-like behavior. this includes lording your status over other men, and checking them when challenged. it especially includes treating women like they are expendable and replaceable. it is YOU, the mighty alpha male that they should feel privileged to even be in the presence of. this is more effective than treating others like crap alone, because she is sure to notice this.

Now bear in mind, from my point of view, this is a situation repeatedly played out by a portion of the population that i consider to be idiotic, and beneath contempt. it is also the portion of the population that is usually in the spotlight, which is why their behavior is so often confused with being the standard. it only works so perfectly predictably because these individuals do not have the intelligence, willpower or gumption to think on a level higher than basic instinct will allow.

 

[Max Goldfine]

Heh. That is one thing that always bugs me about those threads; they talk about women as if they're one homogenous group.

Guys, you know why you can never understand women? Because they don't all have the same personality! There isn't some secret council of women that orders every single girl to think and act exactly the same. Seriously, anybody who has spoken to more than two women in their life should probably have noticed this little factoid.

Its true, i have never met two alike.

 

[Adzma]

That said though, I have seen my fair share of bimbos who date jerks. *Raises flameshield*

Yeah, but who gives a fuck who bimbos date? You're acting like they're real people.

Damn, I'll drink to that!

 

[Brad Shepard]

Ill admit it, I pamper my girlfirend when I can, she works hard at school, so if i can do anything for her when shes in town, you bet im going to do it.

But i do see what you mean. And I dont see why people say "Nice Guys Finish Last." Because Im in a relationship that im so happy with, Im with a amazing girl that I love with all my heart and soul, and she loves me just as much, and im a preety nice guy, so Nice guys finish last My ass (Yes, i did that for the tiny rhyme.)

 

[Omniscient Apathy]

Not a lot of things can be summed up as black and white. a lot of women try to stress that with this issue. they deny that it is the case for them, while acknowledging that the misconception is based in reason (to seem more reasonable to the people reading.)

The fact of the matter is, almost every single guy who at least attempts to pick up women by being nice to them has been turned down in favor of a douche multiple times. There is a reason for this. some of the douches realize what they are doing, and some dont, but here is what is happening.

First, my exclaimer. i am not trying to suggest that all humans are slaves to our natural instincts. we have intelligence, culture, civilization, and all sorts of stuff going on, along with habits that are reflective of our position in the food chain and whatnot. what i will say though, is that without intelligence, decency and empathy, default human behavior is to pretty much just act like a cross between Eric Cartman and a dingo. As we all know, there are some stuid people out there, and there are some assholes out there.

What im getting at, is that asshole behavior is attractive on a subconscious level. It goes both ways. the survival of our offspring doesnt depend on a womans ability to breast feed, yet our brains are hard wired for males to be attracted to women with large breasts. likewise, women's brains are hardwired to be attracted to alpha-male-like behavior. this includes lording your status over other men, and checking them when challenged. it especially includes treating women like they are expendable and replaceable. it is YOU, the mighty alpha male that they should feel privileged to even be in the presence of. this is more effective than treating others like crap alone, because she is sure to notice this.

Now bear in mind, from my point of view, this is a situation repeatedly played out by a portion of the population that i consider to be idiotic, and beneath contempt. it is also the portion of the population that is usually in the spotlight, which is why their behavior is so often confused with being the standard. it only works so perfectly predictably because these individuals do not have the intelligence, willpower or gumption to think on a level higher than basic instinct will allow.

Also true. Higher social position=Better mate, at least in the subconcious.

Many of the things that determine how attractive a person is to another is based off of evaluative processes in the subconcious mind.

And in the subconscious, large breasts=better breastfeeding. large hips=better chance of a successful birth. Basically, subconciously we are wired to ensure the survival and continuation of our species.

 

[aPod]

I'm a woman, I have arms

I'm calling shenanigans. Everyone know women don't have arms.

I;m quoting this because now i'm seriously questioning everything i've ever known about everything.

The fact of the matter is, almost every single guy who at least attempts to pick up women by being nice to them has been turned down in favor of a douche multiple times. There is a reason for this. some of the douches realize what they are doing, and some dont, but here is what is happening.

I resent that. Most nice guys who get turned down in favor of a douche mistake chivalry with not having the balls to be direct. You can be a nice guy, you just have to let her know you're interested and women, just like us fellows, have insecurities. They don't want to be rejected any more than you do and some prick who lays it out there not giving any doubts he is interested feels safer.

What im getting at, is that asshole behavior is attractive on a subconscious level. It goes both ways. the survival of our offspring doesnt depend on a womans ability to breast feed, yet our brains are hard wired for males to be attracted to women with large breasts. likewise, women's brains are hardwired to be attracted to alpha-male-like behavior. this includes lording your status over other men, and checking them when challenged. it especially includes treating women like they are expendable and replaceable. it is YOU, the mighty alpha male that they should feel privileged to even be in the presence of. this is more effective than treating others like crap alone, because she is sure to notice this.

Myths, just plain myths. Being an asshole does not = alpha male behavior. Why do people always confuse being an asshole with cockiness (confidence). I'm a nice guy, but i'm confident. I walk into a room large and confident. That's what a women notices. Just like if a girl walks into a room with grace and an air of confidence i'll notice that.

Not all guys care about large breast. I actually feel like it can take away from the beauty of a woman.

 

[gillebro]

OP, you're a legend. Nice work.

Of course, in my case it's all very well for me to say "Guys, be more confident in yourself" when I'm certainly not there yet. But you've definitely hit the nail on the head there. Well done.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Everyone stops at Vagenda.

They should make a giant fibreglass tourist trap for it - The Big Vagenda. Probably on the NSW north coast.

Sounds more like a suburb of Melbourne to me.

No, you're thinking of Dandenong. It's full of vagendas.

 

[Biosophilogical]

I'm a woman, have been for as long as I can remember.

I'll admit it, I laughed.

OT: The stigma is probably a combination of social habits and who yells the loudest. Like someone pointed out on the first page, the 'jerks' are more likely to get the girls because they actually ask girls out a lot more often than nerds/geeks/people like me. So increasing your trials increases your chance of a successful result, pretty much basic probability. Secondly, who is more likely to be publiicly seen (and noticed) with a girlfriend? The louder, possibly (though not necessarily) more obnoxious 'jerk' men or the 'nice guys' who are more likely to privately enjoy the company (Not like that!) of their partner?

So yeah, the whole "Girls like jerks" thing doesn't have anything to do with girls actually liking jerks, just that jerks are more likely to be noticed getting girls.

 

[Doclector]

Personally I'm of the view that the vast majority of women, like the vast majority of men, don't like jerks.

They like attractive people.

Let's be honest, how many people do you know have fallen in love with someone who isn't the least bit attractive? I don't know any. Personally it wouldn't matter to me. For two reasons, one, I view an actual emotional connection to someone more than attractiveness, and I'm hideous myself, meaning me being shallow would be like a beggar giving beard-trimming advice.

Due to the fact that I am of this opinion suggests some others must be (or at least I hope so) but I'm not one of those disgustingly naive people that tells little jimmy with his deformed face that people will like him for whats on the inside on his first day of school shortly before he's grabbed, pulled into a bathroom and made the canvas for a unique brand of bruise art, I know damn well that people who aren't shallow, much like people, male or female, who aren't jerks, are an almost literally dying breed, so I don't hold out much hope.

 

[Hiikuro]

I've thought a bit about this in the past. But I am really not sure what to say, so I'll dig into my mind and see what I find.

First, minor background. I'm a male, and I've never had a girlfriend.

The closest I ever got to getting a girlfriend was pre-highschool. We got to the point where physical contact was an element (note: lying in bed close, without kissing nor other sexual activities). In the end, this never resulted in a full relationship. And for many reasons I'm very glad it didn't.

Interesting to note, however, is that I was generally ridiculously insecure at the time. That is easily the reason it never evolved into a full relationship, but she nevertheless showed me a lot of interest. In other words, she liked me (as far as I remember, she openly did tell me that). I think she was easily waiting for me to make a move, while I was not by far confident enough to be able to do so.

However, I'm extremely sure she was very insecure herself, and the type who "goes around". She have had (quite) a few relationships before I entered the picture. I remember she telling me something along the lines of "You may be thinking that I'm a <girl-who-goes-around>, because of this and that, but I assure you I'm not". Ironically, this gave me the impression that she worried about being such a girl (and she must have had reasons to say so in the first place), therefore she probably did go from guy to guy (From other conversations with her, this belief was strengthened).

This "case study" makes me think that for this 'type' of girl, it doesn't matter how insecure or awkward a guy is, nor whether the guy is a jerk. But, the key point is that a lack of confidence might shut the door.

Now, leaving the world of the needy type, which seems to be where 'nice guys' get the idea of the jerk-girl relationship in the first place (rethinking it, I'm not so sure about that assertion). I want to look at the problem of confidence.

The 'nice guy', which already is a very bad term to describe a lack of confidence, seems to view confidence as a bad thing (at least that is what I used to believe). In their eyes, it seems that confidence makes jerks. I don't agree with that, but I also believe that confidence is a misleading term. I really like the concept of assertiveness for this reason, which essentially is doing what I can to get what I want, without disrespecting anyone in the process.

When I think of the biological aspect of this, I can understand attraction to the alpha-male. The alpha-male is commonly the most dominant character. However, physical dominance (using force and power) is getting archaic in the present day, and social influence takes its place. In short, the jerk is using more primitive methods of attraction.

But I'll scrap the biology of things, as I can't really back it up too well. There may be patterns in what is attractive in the opposite gender, for both males and females, but the deviants outnumber the norm. However, I won't deny for a second that a lack of 'confidence' (ie. the ability to act) also limits results. It is quite obvious, without the ability to act, one can't expect results either.

So, leaving all that aside. I've met more than a few girls who are very far from liking jerks. In fact, I've never seen the girl-jerk relationship in real life. I almost believe it to be a myth.

 

[kingcom]

A quick note on confidence: Yes, confidence can be sexy, which is one explanation for why jerks get laid. I'm of the 'well if you're not confident and you don't love yourself, then how can you expect someone else to fall in love with you' camp. Get confidence in yourself, make your own friends, get involved in your own hobbies, take care of your appearance etc. and when you least expect it you'll probably meet someone who thinks you're awesome and wants to be a part of your life. Personally I think that's a pretty good strategy regardless of gender.

Its an interesting cycle. Gotta hate the snowball effect.

 

[Sarah Frazier]

Myths, just plain myths. Being an asshole does not = alpha male behavior. Why do people always confuse being an asshole with cockiness (confidence). I'm a nice guy, but i'm confident. I walk into a room large and confident. That's what a women notices. Just like if a girl walks into a room with grace and an air of confidence i'll notice that.

That's another thing I wonder too when it gets to be this early in the morning... What's the difference between being an ass and being assertive? For me it's the manner of approach. The ass will say and do things knowing it'll bother people and get them attention (but in some cases they see no connection with their actions and the reactions of others) while someone who's assertive will act in a way people will notice but not always just to benefit their own agenda.

To simplify the thought process before I fall asleep: Walking into a room and shouting obscenities will get attention for being bold and obnoxious. Walking into a room and shouting a greeting will get attention for being bold and obnoxious too, but still more approachable than the first option.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

What's the difference between being an ass and being assertive?

The all important '-ertive'.

 

[LostTimeLady]

Thank you, Muchas Gracias, Merci Bucket and the like for this thread.

I'm in total agreement (or as total as you can cos it's not your own opinion) with what's been said here.

Womean are people. We're not all the same. Yay! Someone said it! (Not that I haven't been saying it for yonks but hay!)

Not that I'm here to fan the flames but also I just find it interesting as well that these sorts of sweeping generalisations are made about women but never men. Ah, one day there will be equality when both men and women will be equally generalised (JOKE).

As a final note though to all those disheartened sensitive types who think they'll never get the girl:

The jerks aren't the guys girls stay with forever. You will eventually get a girl who treats you like her Prince and so just make sure you treat that special women you find like a princess. Then you'll have her forever.
(See I'm all for the equality!)

 

[Aulleas123]

Yes, many of you probably have met awful women in your lives. Maybe they were rude to you when you were just trying to be chivalrous, maybe they treated you like a combined butler and atm. Maybe you got stuck in the friend zone while they dated someone who you could see was never going to treat them right. I am not denying that these women exist, I've even met some of them. I don't think I'm one of them, and for the most part my friends aren't either.

First off, I'm a guy, and I think that it's wonderful that you and your friends say that they're not that kind of woman. However, in my experience, I have witnessed hundreds of women (yes, hundreds) who say just that same thing. They say they're not interested in 'jerks' and that they 'want someone who can empathize' but when it really comes down to it, women will go after the guys with the best looks (according to their standards, of course) and the most confidence. I'm not meaning to assume that you're a liar, it's just a claim that I've heard from way too many women to take seriously.

I've found that when men and women talk about potential partners, relationships, and sex, we all become politicians. We all spew the same BS to total strangers in the expectation to be more socially acceptable.

Look, I get it. You're frustrated with our viewpoint of women because of our lack of ability with dealing with women (mine especially), I sympathize. But instead of being frustrated, use our stereotype to get just the kind of guy you want by not being the stereotype. If you are truly honest about what you say you are (i.e. looking for a guy with confidence who isn't a tool) then you'll definitely find your guy. You might have to look a little, but if you act the way you do and find that guy who makes you happy, then the heavens will open and all candy and goodness will come forth from Babylon and Zion and all will enjoy the happiness and wonder of true love; and really, it's your combined happiness that should matter most, not our idiotic assumptions about that pesky other gender.

(Ok, apologies for that last bit, both for the weird bit and the assumption that you are single and haven't already had your candy and goodness)

 

[jamesworkshop]

Thank you, Muchas Gracias, Merci Bucket and the like for this thread.

I'm in total agreement (or as total as you can cos it's not your own opinion) with what's been said here.

Womean are people. We're not all the same. Yay! Someone said it! (Not that I haven't been saying it for yonks but hay!)

Not that I'm here to fan the flames but also I just find it interesting as well that these sorts of sweeping generalisations are made about women but never men. Ah, one day there will be equality when both men and women will be equally generalised (JOKE).

As a final note though to all those disheartened sensitive types who think they'll never get the girl:

The jerks aren't the guys girls stay with forever. You will eventually get a girl who treats you like her Prince and so just make sure you treat that special women you find like a princess. Then you'll have her forever.
(See I'm all for the equality!)

For the topic I don't really care

I'm sorry but

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&biw=1259&bih=841&q=do+all+men+like+sluts&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&pwst=1&biw=1276&bih=841&&sa=X&ei=5WQ5TbLMGcWYhQe616GOCg&ved=0CBYQvwUoAQ&q=guys+scared+of+independent+women&spell=1

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&biw=1259&bih=841&q=do+all+men+like+skinny+women&aq=0m&aqi=g-m1g-v1&aql=&oq=all+men+like+s

Can you really honestly say that you believe that in reguards to the dating arena their are no generalisations about men.

 

[Isalan]

Kudos on a very well put together post.

Incidentally, I'll be contacting the Oxford English Dictionary in an attempet to get the word "Vagenda" introduced. My life is not going to be complete til that word is officially part of the english language.

 

[floppylobster]

I completely agree with the OP. I would only add -

Girls like jerks because it angers them to be belittled. And that anger gets confused with a sexual impulse and it turns them on. Are you liking me yet OP?

(It's a joke you see, I'm being a jerk and expecting to be liked).

Only it doesn't work because most girls don't like jerks. They like who they like. And those guys they like can be jerks to them and the girls will be a little more forgiving toward them because they like them (over someone they're not attracted to). It's a little give and take, a testing of boundaries to see if they're compatible, to see if they can stand up to them, to see if they're a suitable partner. Too much of a jerk and she may find her self-respect defeats her attraction and dump him. Too little and she may find him weak and unchallenging and leave him (but maybe that's what she's after).

Anyway, my point is - to people who actually believe this stereotype - it may look from the outside that a guy is being a jerk to a girl. But most of the time the girl is letting him be a jerk to her. And when she's sick of it, she'll stand up for herself or let him know he's gone too far. You don't see the 24:7 of real relationships so while it looks like he's 'treating her mean'. In most long terms relationships, there's a whole lot more going on.

I can be a jerk to my girlfriend. The fact that she puts up with me being a jerk proves to me she likes me. The fact that I don't abuse that kindness lets me know I respect her. It's never a perfect balance but really when is it? I can be a jerk to my cat too. And my cat can be a jerk to me. Same with my friends. All relationships have a give and take. Really we're all jerks sometimes, so to say all girls like jerks is true. But if you were to say they only like jerks? Well then you're just being a jerk.

 

[Dogstile]

Ok, their are a few things I agree with here, first off.

One thing that my experiences of women have taught me is that it's near impossible to produce a blueprint for all women any more detailed than 'has a vagina and breasts' and sometimes even that's not entirely accurate.

I'm still surprised a forum such as this one still does this, considering it's members praise themselves for the intelligence often actually, its odd.

Yes I do have some friends who date guys that treat them like princesses, and I have friends who date guys that treat them like dirt.

What people don't seem to understand is if a girl goes out with a guy that treats them like shit, then they probably aren't the girl for them as they don't match. I swear people when talking about these girls are just forcing their feelings.

(love, intimacy and sexytime).

hehe, sexytime

I personally do not want to date a guy who does everything for me, pays for every meal, insists on carrying everything for me, buys gifts for me all the time, calls me every half hour and constantly worries about whether or not I'm okay. I'm a woman, not an invalid.

Agreed, guys on here who are reading this, take note. Be nice, be caring. Don't however, treat her like she needs you to do everything to her. Personal experience tells me that girls get tired of it fast, depending on the girl.

I'm sick of seeing people appearing on this forum with an axe to grind about how they'll never find a woman because they're not horrible enough for women to be attracted to them.

Also, if one of these people are reading this, here's a hint. You're not that nice or perfect if you've come onto a forum full of people you've never met to ***** about the other half of the species.

Your rant was sorely needed, this forum is getting ridiculous with relationship threads.