Do all women like jerks? No (a rant)
- Thread starter Hiraeth
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While I certainly agree with you on the fact that not all women like to date jerks, all the ones that I've met like to date jerks.
Beautiful.
And, at the same time, not at all gratifying.
I've sifted through the OP's novel and the first two pages, and I still feel the need to say this:
Bravo, but because of your kin's ( or...well...sex's ) OTHER members, because of my being a general dick to anyone who is a dick because I see no point in not being a decent person ( and getting seriously pissed off at obnoxious fellows and ladies), I'm not buying any of this until it actually smacks me in the face in real life.
And, at the same time, not at all gratifying.
I've sifted through the OP's novel and the first two pages, and I still feel the need to say this:
Bravo, but because of your kin's ( or...well...sex's ) OTHER members, because of my being a general dick to anyone who is a dick because I see no point in not being a decent person ( and getting seriously pissed off at obnoxious fellows and ladies), I'm not buying any of this until it actually smacks me in the face in real life.
I read the original post, but nothing after that.
I just felt the need to thank you for writing this. I completely agree with you about being equals in a relationship. My last girlfriend left me because she felt I didn't dote on her enough. I'm a very loving person, but I need some time on my own sometimes.
I wish more people thought like you, frankly. That goes for men and women. The whole gender bashing thing needs to stop. I often feel like we're back in primary school when we thought girls had rabies. It's ridiculous. There are nice girls, and there are nice guys, and then there are the bad eggs. The thing with a box of eggs though is that you have plenty to choose from. If you get a bad one, you move on until you find the one that's right for you.
Kudos for taking the time to explain your opinions with rational thought rather than the usual tirade of 'WTF!? UZ WIMMEN AIN'T ALL EVIL, YO!', or if you're in the male camp 'THEZ BITCHEZ R ALL SLUTZ N SHIT, YO!'.
Yeah.
I just felt the need to thank you for writing this. I completely agree with you about being equals in a relationship. My last girlfriend left me because she felt I didn't dote on her enough. I'm a very loving person, but I need some time on my own sometimes.
I wish more people thought like you, frankly. That goes for men and women. The whole gender bashing thing needs to stop. I often feel like we're back in primary school when we thought girls had rabies. It's ridiculous. There are nice girls, and there are nice guys, and then there are the bad eggs. The thing with a box of eggs though is that you have plenty to choose from. If you get a bad one, you move on until you find the one that's right for you.
Kudos for taking the time to explain your opinions with rational thought rather than the usual tirade of 'WTF!? UZ WIMMEN AIN'T ALL EVIL, YO!', or if you're in the male camp 'THEZ BITCHEZ R ALL SLUTZ N SHIT, YO!'.
Yeah.
Awesome post, im pretty sure it comes from when people are teenagers most girls aren't dating and the ones that do tend to be going out with the popular guys (who are often jerks) so the average guy asks out a non-dating girl and when they get turned down they lump them in the 'only dates jerks' catagory despite the girl not dating anyone.
If that makes sense at all.
If that makes sense at all.
There are womens on this forum?Hiraeth said:
On topic I feel your pain, it annoys me when girls say, "Why are all boys assholes." No you just date assholes.
Halfway through reading this I started thinking about Sandwhiches. I can't think why...
Hiraeth said:
Sooooo, how about we grab a pint? haha
In all seriousness though, thanks for putting this up. The "Why nice guys finish last" trend on here was starting to become irritating.
I'm not sure if others see it this way too, but I've come to consider "Attractiveness" as a completly separate personality trait, rather than a combination of other traits. Atleast it seems to be that way in men. An attractive guy isn't attractive because of his looks, because he treats people a certain way or whatever.
He's attractive because he's...attractive.
It seems to me that while women say they are looking for certain traits in men and what have you, it all still seems to boil down to them looking for these traits IN ADDITION to the guy being attractive. And pretty much all women seem to respond the same way to the attractiveness trait.
This theory is strengthened by the existance of "players" and different kinds of guys who always have women wanting them. The fact that these guys are different is what makes me believe in the existance of attractiveness as a separate trait.
However, the main reason guys tend to think the way they do about women (they all like jerks etc) is mainly due to the existance of "players". One guy could have 10-20 women (AT LEAST) waiting for him to become single, while others won't even have women looking their way. It's mainly fueled by jealously and a lack of understanding.
He's attractive because he's...attractive.
It seems to me that while women say they are looking for certain traits in men and what have you, it all still seems to boil down to them looking for these traits IN ADDITION to the guy being attractive. And pretty much all women seem to respond the same way to the attractiveness trait.
This theory is strengthened by the existance of "players" and different kinds of guys who always have women wanting them. The fact that these guys are different is what makes me believe in the existance of attractiveness as a separate trait.
However, the main reason guys tend to think the way they do about women (they all like jerks etc) is mainly due to the existance of "players". One guy could have 10-20 women (AT LEAST) waiting for him to become single, while others won't even have women looking their way. It's mainly fueled by jealously and a lack of understanding.
I'm sure a majority of women would prefer a partner with a certain measure of self-confidence and outward assertion, which (need) have nothing to do with being a "jerk".
Of course, there are all kinds of individual preferences in terms of partners and romancing styles, but it would probably not be an unfair assumption that assertive men - with the biologically imprinted perceived ability to father and protect strong off-spring - show up on the radars of more potential partners, just like assertive women - with the right biologically imprinted "hourglass" proportion of curves ideal to bearing offspring - are likely to do in reverse.
Being out-going and assertive is inevitably a psychological boon - a better outset for being noticed - and while more "jerks" than "nice guys" might possess these traits (correlation), there's no link to the negative behaviour also exhibited by "jerks" (causality). And ultimately individual preferences - which can modify or completely superceed the biological outsets - is what matter when looking for a partner, or being looked at by one.
Of course, there are all kinds of individual preferences in terms of partners and romancing styles, but it would probably not be an unfair assumption that assertive men - with the biologically imprinted perceived ability to father and protect strong off-spring - show up on the radars of more potential partners, just like assertive women - with the right biologically imprinted "hourglass" proportion of curves ideal to bearing offspring - are likely to do in reverse.
Being out-going and assertive is inevitably a psychological boon - a better outset for being noticed - and while more "jerks" than "nice guys" might possess these traits (correlation), there's no link to the negative behaviour also exhibited by "jerks" (causality). And ultimately individual preferences - which can modify or completely superceed the biological outsets - is what matter when looking for a partner, or being looked at by one.
God, can we just let it go, people? Haven't we already exhausted this topic?
Some women think that being a jerk equals being funny and that's really all they're looking for ... having fun.
OR, just as a woman friend of mine once told me, some women also get men for their looks and "wear them as purses", so they can look good to the other women, that have a not-as-hot partner.
If you want a serious relationship, just date someone else, preferably someone older, since most women that prefer jerks are too young (or too stupid/bored/whatever) to realize that what they're doing is worthless in the long run.
Women in their 30s/late 20s usually look for something more than just fucking with every moron that crosses their paths. I'm not saying you should date someone much older, just have fun while you're still a kid then get someone worthwhile.
Always complaining about this shit only alienates and angers worthwhile women, even a lot of the ones you're describing when you complain, since they think they're worthwhile too.
Some women think that being a jerk equals being funny and that's really all they're looking for ... having fun.
OR, just as a woman friend of mine once told me, some women also get men for their looks and "wear them as purses", so they can look good to the other women, that have a not-as-hot partner.
If you want a serious relationship, just date someone else, preferably someone older, since most women that prefer jerks are too young (or too stupid/bored/whatever) to realize that what they're doing is worthless in the long run.
Women in their 30s/late 20s usually look for something more than just fucking with every moron that crosses their paths. I'm not saying you should date someone much older, just have fun while you're still a kid then get someone worthwhile.
Always complaining about this shit only alienates and angers worthwhile women, even a lot of the ones you're describing when you complain, since they think they're worthwhile too.
I see what you're saying here, but however, while not all girls like the "jerk" type, you can't deny that the sort of outward assertion and confidence that comes with being like that does, in a way attract more attention and that includes female attention.
No, that's not to say all girls like that. There are exceptions of course. It's like saying all guys like girls who have bleach blonde hair and big tits. There are generalizations about men too and there are exceptions to every supposed "rule" but a lot of the time, over self confidence seems to be connected with being a dick.
Of course though, not all people with self confidence is an asshole. Balance is required in most situations and relationships are a prime example of why it's required. However, many people have many different tastes in their partners from guys liking submissive girls to girls liking overly dominate guys and even the other way around.
The point though is that everyone has different tastes and have different thoughts on what attracts them to a partner. Some more common to find than others but to say all girls like jerks is ridiculous and I thank you for pointing that out and seeing as you're a woman, people actually might listen.
But what you have to understand is that the whole liking jerks thing... it does come from somewhere. There's a reason so many people believe that to be true.
No, that's not to say all girls like that. There are exceptions of course. It's like saying all guys like girls who have bleach blonde hair and big tits. There are generalizations about men too and there are exceptions to every supposed "rule" but a lot of the time, over self confidence seems to be connected with being a dick.
Of course though, not all people with self confidence is an asshole. Balance is required in most situations and relationships are a prime example of why it's required. However, many people have many different tastes in their partners from guys liking submissive girls to girls liking overly dominate guys and even the other way around.
The point though is that everyone has different tastes and have different thoughts on what attracts them to a partner. Some more common to find than others but to say all girls like jerks is ridiculous and I thank you for pointing that out and seeing as you're a woman, people actually might listen.
But what you have to understand is that the whole liking jerks thing... it does come from somewhere. There's a reason so many people believe that to be true.
Good God, we need more threads like this.
I just want to thank the Op. Really, the amount of guys here (and elsewhere) constantly asking "why do all women go for jerks?" as if they're some fucking collective really gets on my nerves. It's that ugly streak of misogyny that crops up again and again...
You win internetz my friend.
Many internetz.
I just want to thank the Op. Really, the amount of guys here (and elsewhere) constantly asking "why do all women go for jerks?" as if they're some fucking collective really gets on my nerves. It's that ugly streak of misogyny that crops up again and again...
You win internetz my friend.
Many internetz.
Outright Villainy said:
*We are the Woborg, lower your pants and prepare to be assimilated*
ROFL
In order:Hiraeth said:
Yes, some of them actually like jerks. (Just my opinion though.)
Some hate jerks.
I don't know.
No, not the real feminists in my opinion.
*shrugs* I don't care. Whatever you want.
I think that sadly, we are still, for the most part, slaves to our biology. I hope it changes, but i don't think it will happen very soon.
I don't think a poll is necessary.
Although this type of thread is rarer than the "do girls like jerks" type, i think i have seen it here before. Also, like you said, there are answers like this one in those type of threads... like a sort of counter-rant.
While i do agree with that we can't generalize, and that, yes, not all women are like that, i also think that a portion certainly are. And believe me, it saddens me to no end. And you can yell and rant all you want, but you won't change that. Or my opinion for that matter.
Oh well. *shrug*
Shepard: "A lot of women like bad boys."
Kelly: "That's a dirty stereotype. In my case, it happens to be true, but still."
Quote from ME2. And true as hell.
Every single woman on this forum (both of them!) says exactly same thing.
Kelly: "That's a dirty stereotype. In my case, it happens to be true, but still."
Quote from ME2. And true as hell.
Every single woman on this forum (both of them!) says exactly same thing.
Jesus christ thank you so much. You are quite possibly the onlyy person on the internet who is willing to talk balance in gender relations (Christ I want to punch myself for typing that last bit) AND the only one to say anything about the gender flip of the stereotype you talk about.
Also, sexytimes is a glorious word.
Also, sexytimes is a glorious word.
Thanks for the great responses everyone. I'd like to go through them more thoroughly and quote everyone I'm going to refer to but I'm too lazy so I'm just going to make a new post and hope people notice it. Things I want to add:
1. The cycle of confidence. Yes it's hard to remain confident when you're getting knocked back. I've been there, we've all been there, it sucks. As I see it, though it might sound a bit bleak, you have to be okay with being single. When you get rejected, you can be a bit disappointed sure, but why let it ruin your day? It's not like that's the last girl/guy you'll ever talk to. You have to be okay with moving on. That's my opinion at least.
2. People who 'justifiably' think all women date jerks. Okay the way I see it there are a couple of ways you can look at this. Sure there are people in the thread who have pointed out that they personally have not met a girl who breaks this stereotype for whatever reason, whether it's the place they live, or the places they meet women. Okay, I see where you're coming from guys, but I don't think you're looking at this the right way. I and other people of the female persuasion who have posted in this thread have told you, outright that we don't like to date jerks and have explained who we do like. If you're not finding women like us, then maybe the woman you've been choosing aren't the right ones, or you're looking in the wrong places. It's like, if you want a cup of tea, do you go to a bar?
The other kind of guy is the one who has been so horribly hurt by one or more women that he just cannot accept that women are genuine people and not heart-eating ***** monsters. If there's anyone out there who feels like this, I'm sorry that you've experienced that, but I take no responsibility for it, because I wasn't the person who hurt you. We have all been dumped or rejected horribly, and yes it does like crap, but rather than blaming all women for the actions of one, why not blame her for just generally being a horrible person.
3. Yes, the reverse stereotypes exist, all men like sluts, all men are pigs, all men want is sex etc. etc. Funnily enough those seem to crop up less on this site. I suspect that it's because there's a larger male population than a female one, and thus Escapists are exposed to a more diverse group of men than women. I know I've read a heap of relationship threads where guys on here have stated specifically that they're waiting for marriage or they're asexual or in some other way defy these stereotypes. Because the demographic here is predominantly male, there's less of a 'men are awful, we hate them' slant, than there is 'women are bitches, they only date jerks'.
4. I also understand that there's a difference between people who genuinely think this way about women and people who are just mad or upset. Yes, I have heard recently dumped girls crying about how 'men are pigs'. We get upset, it happens. When you get dumped it feels like the entire world is against you, all your relationships end in failure and men/women are just out to destroy you in any way possible. I am not trying to tell you not to say whatever the hell you want about whomever when you're miserable. It's the people who feel this way all the time who cause me concern and whom this thread is directed at.
5. If you've come into this thread looking for me to give you relationship advice, you have almost definitely come to the wrong place. The man to talk to is BonsaiK, he has a thread floating around here somewhere, and he's a freaking genius. So if you have dating questions it's probably a good idea to go find it because he can answer your questions better than I can.
I can offer a few tips I guess. Firstly, if you want to get more confident talking to people you don't know then practice. I like to talk to shop assistants because they're usually being paid to be friendly and they can't follow you out of the store if it gets totally awkward and you need to escape. Secondly, take care of your appearance - cut your hair, shave or prune your beard, take regular showers, maybe even go to the gym. If you look good, you'll feel good, and you'll give off better vibes as a result. I personally can only think of one person in my life that I've met who has been genuinely unattractive, and with her it was a combination of her personality, her looks, and how she took care of herself that had caused it.
6. To reiterate - yes, some women like jerks. I do not, and most women I know do not. I think it's fairly interesting that all the ladies and a decent proportion of the men who have posted in this thread agree with me, while those who disagree are all male (unless I missed anyone).
Goddam it I wrote another essay. Sorry everyone!
Basically what I got from that was - women are afraid of getting hurt. Lisa Kudrow's character dates Bobby because she feels superior to him. Laurie nearly doesn't date Smith because she's scared she's not good enough because he's really smart and rich. Jules is scared to admit to her boyfriend (and herself) that she's not as smart or as educated as she wishes she was. How does this relate to the real world, well people of both genders can be afraid of getting hurt. We hide things from people because we're ashamed, and we want people to think the best of us.
As far as women thinking you're looking for sex, can I ask where you're talking to them? Because if you're talking about women in clubs and bars, well yeah, probably most of the guys that hit on them there are trying to get in their pants, so it stands to reason that they think you are too. If you talk to a girl in your class, or at the supermarket, she's probably less likely to think you're just looking for an easy lay. Also, some women may just be in a really terrible mood. It can happen.
Let's talk about what causes women's insecurities. I can't answer that question for every woman, just like you can't answer it for every man. There could be any number of reasons why a woman would be insecure. How can you get around it? Well that depends really on what's causing it. Is she afraid of intimacy because she's worried she'll get hurt? Show her that you're in this for the long run and that yes you may get hurt but you're willing to take that risk because you want to be with her. This is sort of a really general question, and I'm not really sure if I'm being helpful...
1. The cycle of confidence. Yes it's hard to remain confident when you're getting knocked back. I've been there, we've all been there, it sucks. As I see it, though it might sound a bit bleak, you have to be okay with being single. When you get rejected, you can be a bit disappointed sure, but why let it ruin your day? It's not like that's the last girl/guy you'll ever talk to. You have to be okay with moving on. That's my opinion at least.
2. People who 'justifiably' think all women date jerks. Okay the way I see it there are a couple of ways you can look at this. Sure there are people in the thread who have pointed out that they personally have not met a girl who breaks this stereotype for whatever reason, whether it's the place they live, or the places they meet women. Okay, I see where you're coming from guys, but I don't think you're looking at this the right way. I and other people of the female persuasion who have posted in this thread have told you, outright that we don't like to date jerks and have explained who we do like. If you're not finding women like us, then maybe the woman you've been choosing aren't the right ones, or you're looking in the wrong places. It's like, if you want a cup of tea, do you go to a bar?
The other kind of guy is the one who has been so horribly hurt by one or more women that he just cannot accept that women are genuine people and not heart-eating ***** monsters. If there's anyone out there who feels like this, I'm sorry that you've experienced that, but I take no responsibility for it, because I wasn't the person who hurt you. We have all been dumped or rejected horribly, and yes it does like crap, but rather than blaming all women for the actions of one, why not blame her for just generally being a horrible person.
3. Yes, the reverse stereotypes exist, all men like sluts, all men are pigs, all men want is sex etc. etc. Funnily enough those seem to crop up less on this site. I suspect that it's because there's a larger male population than a female one, and thus Escapists are exposed to a more diverse group of men than women. I know I've read a heap of relationship threads where guys on here have stated specifically that they're waiting for marriage or they're asexual or in some other way defy these stereotypes. Because the demographic here is predominantly male, there's less of a 'men are awful, we hate them' slant, than there is 'women are bitches, they only date jerks'.
4. I also understand that there's a difference between people who genuinely think this way about women and people who are just mad or upset. Yes, I have heard recently dumped girls crying about how 'men are pigs'. We get upset, it happens. When you get dumped it feels like the entire world is against you, all your relationships end in failure and men/women are just out to destroy you in any way possible. I am not trying to tell you not to say whatever the hell you want about whomever when you're miserable. It's the people who feel this way all the time who cause me concern and whom this thread is directed at.
5. If you've come into this thread looking for me to give you relationship advice, you have almost definitely come to the wrong place. The man to talk to is BonsaiK, he has a thread floating around here somewhere, and he's a freaking genius. So if you have dating questions it's probably a good idea to go find it because he can answer your questions better than I can.
I can offer a few tips I guess. Firstly, if you want to get more confident talking to people you don't know then practice. I like to talk to shop assistants because they're usually being paid to be friendly and they can't follow you out of the store if it gets totally awkward and you need to escape. Secondly, take care of your appearance - cut your hair, shave or prune your beard, take regular showers, maybe even go to the gym. If you look good, you'll feel good, and you'll give off better vibes as a result. I personally can only think of one person in my life that I've met who has been genuinely unattractive, and with her it was a combination of her personality, her looks, and how she took care of herself that had caused it.
6. To reiterate - yes, some women like jerks. I do not, and most women I know do not. I think it's fairly interesting that all the ladies and a decent proportion of the men who have posted in this thread agree with me, while those who disagree are all male (unless I missed anyone).
Goddam it I wrote another essay. Sorry everyone!
Honestly my first thought was 'man I really enjoyed season 1 of Cougar Town. Maybe I should go watch season 2...'Mazty said:
Basically what I got from that was - women are afraid of getting hurt. Lisa Kudrow's character dates Bobby because she feels superior to him. Laurie nearly doesn't date Smith because she's scared she's not good enough because he's really smart and rich. Jules is scared to admit to her boyfriend (and herself) that she's not as smart or as educated as she wishes she was. How does this relate to the real world, well people of both genders can be afraid of getting hurt. We hide things from people because we're ashamed, and we want people to think the best of us.
As far as women thinking you're looking for sex, can I ask where you're talking to them? Because if you're talking about women in clubs and bars, well yeah, probably most of the guys that hit on them there are trying to get in their pants, so it stands to reason that they think you are too. If you talk to a girl in your class, or at the supermarket, she's probably less likely to think you're just looking for an easy lay. Also, some women may just be in a really terrible mood. It can happen.
Let's talk about what causes women's insecurities. I can't answer that question for every woman, just like you can't answer it for every man. There could be any number of reasons why a woman would be insecure. How can you get around it? Well that depends really on what's causing it. Is she afraid of intimacy because she's worried she'll get hurt? Show her that you're in this for the long run and that yes you may get hurt but you're willing to take that risk because you want to be with her. This is sort of a really general question, and I'm not really sure if I'm being helpful...
I was going to respond at length about this, then I realized that all I needed to say was - don't worry about me, this is one stereotype that I don't think I've ever bought into. I could give you examples of great guys who aren't jerks that I've dated but I'm sure no one really cares. Also, a question, if the girls you've talked to maintain that they don't date jerks, yet you perceive them to be dating jerks, could the problem perhaps be with your perception, and not the girls? Maybe you're only seeing part of the bigger picture. Not saying this is the case, just asking. As far as finding the right guy, if it happens, it happens, to get married and have babies is far from the be all and end all of my life.Aulleas123 said:
Reading this made me happy 
I am very, very fed up of whiny guys who go on and on at me about how theyre a nice guy so no-one loves them. It reaaally rattles my cage. When looking for a prospective partner I dont go out thinking 'now, where's the biggest dickhead, I really feel like having my heart broken today' and the fact people think i do makes me so cross D:
I always find the whiny 'no-one loves me because im nice' ones tend to be the ones who also have some huge undesirable quality. Like a shrine to you in their bedroom. Or they like -everything- that you do on facebook or something. eek.
I am very, very fed up of whiny guys who go on and on at me about how theyre a nice guy so no-one loves them. It reaaally rattles my cage. When looking for a prospective partner I dont go out thinking 'now, where's the biggest dickhead, I really feel like having my heart broken today' and the fact people think i do makes me so cross D:
I always find the whiny 'no-one loves me because im nice' ones tend to be the ones who also have some huge undesirable quality. Like a shrine to you in their bedroom. Or they like -everything- that you do on facebook or something. eek.
MAke this a poll and youll get your answer.....
Women say they want that gentle man, honest and heartfull..... off course they say it just for saying....
Women want men with style, good looking or that they are total assholes/ deuches...... if your at least one of those youre guaranteed.... if not, start working in at least one of the 3....
Women say they want that gentle man, honest and heartfull..... off course they say it just for saying....
Women want men with style, good looking or that they are total assholes/ deuches...... if your at least one of those youre guaranteed.... if not, start working in at least one of the 3....