Just Darth Sidious acknowledged the Jedi before killing them...i'm sure theres a point there somewhere...ElephantGuts said:
Do Gays Not Exist in Bioware's Star Wars?
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
Alright you're taking this waaay too seriously. Obviously (or I thought it was obvious anyway) I'm not comparing this situation to the Holocaust. In fact I was barely using the Holocaust to prove my point, as I explained in my last post that I commonly do. All I was doing was making a semi-joke to say that I consider saying something doesn't exist is worse than facing it and openly declaring yourself against it. Hope I made that clear enough.Undead Dragon King said:
And yes there are situations worse than the Holocaust but the main benefit of using the Holocaust to prove a point, and why I do use it so much, is exactly because of how well-known it is. When I say "Holocaust" everyone knows what I mean, which is much better than having to explain the intricacies of some lesser-known tragedy and losing track of my original point.Low Frost said:
EDIT:
Exactly. That says more for him than if he just said "Eh, screw those Jedi, they're just a bunch of posers. It's not even worth dealing with them."Ben Legend said:
If it's the case of using a well known event to make a point, why not use the trans-atlantic slave trade? At last count, a half billion people died during it's existence, with fully half of those being people who died on route to the Americas via the Atlantic sea.ElephantGuts said:
Here is where I stand on this. Bioware is free to include whatever it wants in it's games. If it chooses to leave out gays then it is their choice. It's like in the Dawn of War series did nobody notice that none of the imperial guardsmen are black, asian, or hispanic? If the developer doesn't want to include certain groups then it is their choice. The only issue here then is one overly zelous mod trying to stop the controversy only for his method to backfire. People screw up, that's normal. As for gays not existing in star wars I'd say that is best left up to George Lucas as he created that universe and if he doesn't want gays in it then it's his choice.That Dude With A Face said:
No it's not, he's stating that you are in fact a homophobe.That Dude With A Face said:
Back on topic, why does it matter, it's stupid, I care not for whether there's gayness, necrophilia or beastality referenced in games, (pedophilla....no. just no) but people complaining that there aint any people in games that are specifically stated as being gay are just being pathetic, it doesn't matter.
When I play an open-world roleplaying game, especially one that takes aspect of out current society into the future I dont believe I should have to be limited or forced to play a heterosexual role if there are relationships involved. What does it say of our society if the interactive media of our times only allows heterosexual relationships to be represented.painfull2006 said:
I'm gonna go facepalm in the corner now, and say a quick prayer that you take those pretty blinders off before you trip on something.That Dude With A Face said:
Actually, dude, the only canon NOT white humans of the Imperium that I can think of offhand are the Salamanders.Xan Krieger said:
Seriously, a bunch of white British nerds made 40k, what did you expect?
A long time ago in a land no so far away...
The Japanese didn't have a word for homosexual or gay or anything, even though Japanese men had sex with both men and women for centuries. It was just something you did, and you were not labeled because of it. It only became a label when Western culture was introduced to Japan in the 1800's. So maybe that can give some perspective to Bioware's thoughts.
The Japanese didn't have a word for homosexual or gay or anything, even though Japanese men had sex with both men and women for centuries. It was just something you did, and you were not labeled because of it. It only became a label when Western culture was introduced to Japan in the 1800's. So maybe that can give some perspective to Bioware's thoughts.
More likely the company. If you look at every other BioWare game, those that have a romance subquests tend to have a "discount lesbian" option and that's it. By "discount lesbian," I mean that there's a gay option, but it's limited to only lesbians, and there's some degree of "justification" to it, with only one option on that front. For example, in KotOR, you couldn't romance Bastila as a woman, you could only romance Juhani the cat alien lady. In Jade Empire, you could only romance Silk Fox as a woman, who would marry a goat if it meant she became Empress. In Mass Effect, the only gay lover is the ambiguously-female Asari character. In all these cases, it's not really a normal lesbian relationship to begin with. Yet it is the only gay option.HSIAMetalKing said:
There's some cultural explanation to all this. BioWare is, for all intents and purposes, an Albertan company. Its founders are Albertan, and their main base of operations is Edmonton. The closest state analogue to Alberta in terms of culture is Utah or Texas. They were the birthplace of the Reform Party (the closest analogue in Canada to the Republicans of now before their merging with the Alliance to form the current Conservative Party), they hold high religious values, and they are EXTREMELY anti-gay. Seriously. Try to have two gay guys walk through Old Strathcona in Edmonton on a busy night holding hands. Then check on them a few hours later, see how many bruises and cuts they got from homophobes jumping them.
Is it a stretch to connect the anti-gay sentiment of Alberta to BioWare? Not really. Considering this sentiment, it's not hard to deduce that these "discount lesbian" options were less legitimate gay romances than means to satiate the lipstick lesbian fantasies of their core demographic, while maintaining the point that it's a fictional experience that could never translate in real life.
Is this justified, however? No.
If you're going to put a romance subquest in there to add some depth to the story, you go all out. While one doesn't have to make EVERY character available for the player's yearning, your player character's sexuality should be just as malleable as their stats. And not every character you can romance has to be bisexual, either: You can have a variety of people with different sexual and romantic leanings that can not only give a supporting/ensemble cast depth, but also diversify the way a story is told. You can't just make something as complex as a character's relationships with others one dimensional and stereotypical, as well as "traditional." All BioWare's doing is denying reality by being homophobic and enforcing dominant male stereotypes. The very argument that "gays don't exist" in one universe is a very homophobic statement to make, as if to whitewash their ideal world. If they can't be serious about such context in a plot, they should either leave the romance subquests out, or make such subquests linear, so the PC doesn't have a choice about who they romance.
At the end of the day, BioWare's being anti-gay. Besides, they hire these forum mods, so it's likely they are as much a voice to the company as the developers themselves.
In future games I would like to see same sex relationships portrayed in the same way as opposite sex relationships, there's nothing bad or good about being straight, homosexual or bisexual. It's all about preference, what you prefer. I like to think we are approaching a world where you can get a cut scene of two men kissing in the same light as a man and a woman, or two women. I like the option to pursue homosexual relationships in games (Myself being a homo) and it's not like the game designers are forcing you to do it, even though it's completly childish when people say "Eww a homo!" Or whatever.
All in all, just put same sex relationships in games normaly, dont make it a focus and dont put any special meaning or light behind it, just have those scenes in the same way opposite sex relationships are done.
All in all, just put same sex relationships in games normaly, dont make it a focus and dont put any special meaning or light behind it, just have those scenes in the same way opposite sex relationships are done.
Yeah, it's "their choice" to exclude GLBT stuff but it's still a dick move and extremely cowardly discrimination. That applies as much to the game as to idiot forum mods. Not having anything but white soldiers in 40K is pretty dickish too. Saying "it's just their choice" is enabling privilege to stomp on minorities willy-nilly and is the entire reason the US has anti-discrimination laws about many areas because those "just choices" result in people not getting jobs for which they are qualified, not getting loans so they can buy houses and cars even after that, not getting equal admission to colleges and generally being held down, all by simple individual choice.
So yeah, it's just a game, but it's a part of that discriminatory attitude and it deserves to be fought and all you "wah wah PC wahhhh" babies can go choke on your privilege of never having to be outside looking in or worry about being treated with respect.
So yeah, it's just a game, but it's a part of that discriminatory attitude and it deserves to be fought and all you "wah wah PC wahhhh" babies can go choke on your privilege of never having to be outside looking in or worry about being treated with respect.